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Thread: Friar Tuck's medical thread

  1. #61
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    "...I have been using pedialyte for the liquid portion of critcal care" I meant to put in my update post before bpatters reply, sorry. It was too late to edit.

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    Cavy Slave spy9doc's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Just mixing with critical care is not nearly enough fluids for him. You should be giving him at least 5 to 10 CC's whenever he will accept it. @bpatters is definitely correct in that the sunken eyes are sign of dehydration. It also should tell you something by the fact that his stool looks more normal and that he is responding to the additional treatment.

    I know that it is stressful for both of you, but it seems as though you're on the right track.

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  4. #63
    Cavy Champion Guinea Pig Papa's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Definitely, definitely, definitely give water.

    Whenever any of my boys were on Critical Care, they would get several mouthfuls of CC and then a 1cc syringe filled with water. Dehydration can be swift and definitely deadly. The day I lost Punkin, he was drooling so badly that I couldn't hydrate him fast enough. Pedialyte, water, it didn't matter. His eyes were sunken just before we left for the vet. I know that Friar Tuck is definitely not in that category, but he can get dehydrated enough that it becomes serious.

    Happy to hear positive updates, and I hope they keep coming. He IS on Baytril so you MUST expect that his appetite will be diminished or non-existant until he finishes the antibiotic. Every pig I've ever had with the exception of Simon, had serious or even severe reactions to it when it came to appetite.

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  6. #64
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Friar Tuck is (all things considering) doing good today!

    His eyes look good and his energy level is up a little today. He hasn't lost weight! If he did it was VERY little.

    We bought a new, better digital kitchen gram scale. Yesterday he had already eaten when we weighed him, because we didn't have the scale yet first thing that morning. He was 1223 yesterday. This morning he was 1204 before eating or drinking anything. After eating his first critical care meal, he was exactly 1223 again.

    He got a solid 5 ccs of straight pedialyte on top of his critcal care meal. I gave the straight pedialyte to him between critcal care mouthfuls just like you said @Guinea Pig Papa. Though it doesn't count for fluid consumption I do make the critical care with pedialyte for an extra boost. He was stronger, because he fought a lot more during this critcal care feeding. Made it harder, but made me happy!

    He peed more today, it's still looking normal. His stool has always looked normal, except for one or two that were on the smaller side. There just hasn't been normal amounts of it.

    After he was back in his cage he came and wandered around a little. He snuffled through his hay pile and ate a couple pieces!
    Last edited by MerryFriarTuck; 11-14-20 at 08:42 am.

  7. #65
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Does Baytril diminish appetite so much because it causes nausea? That's why I'm curious about Reglan, it says it's for nausea during GI issues in the GI Stasis and stress sticky thread.

  8. #66
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Does the common loss of appetite with baytril mean they have no interest in food whatsoever, or they're interested in food but won't eat???

    Friar Tuck comes running up to everything today, excited, and grabs it ...then lets it fall back out of his mouth. Veggies, hay, pellets. He wants it SO bad and then just... doesn't. It's so sad to watch.

    How much do guinea pigs usually poop when they're solely on critcal care??? I'm guessing it digests more fully than a normal diet?

    Friar Tuck took one little drink from his water bottle today, and he has energy, wandering around his cage a little and fighting up a storm with his critical care feedings. He still hasn't lost anymore weight!

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    Cavy Champion Guinea Pig Papa's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Typically I've only seen the behaviour with being excited about food but not eating it, associated with dental problems. I'm just not sure what the issue is with Friar Tuck.

    Baytril will basically kill their appetite for anything, pretty much. If they are getting enough critical care, they should poop almost normally. I say SHOULD, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will. Every pig is different.

    If you're giving him liquids with every feeding, don't be discouraged about his lack of water bottle use. If he's getting enough, he just won't be thirsty enough to use it. If he hasn't lost any weight, you're doing very, very well.

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    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Friar Tuck is doing well--- this morning he ate a little bit of hay and lettuce on his own! He took one bite of watermelon yesterday. He's still nice and strong today. From 1204 he only went down to 1200 kg... That's all that's new for now.

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    Cavy Slave Kelsie's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    I really appreciate your daily updates. I've been so worried about your baby. It sounds like he is, hopefully, on the mend. Keep up the good work, Friar. We all want to keep hearing good news about you. ❤️

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    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Thank you so much @Kelsie ❤️ here's a little more good news--- guess who ate some corn husk and silk this afternoon?! Friar Tuck loves corn husks and I'm so happy; he managed about a fistful of them shredded thinly. He was up and wandering around a couple times today. And my sweet little friar has decided to put up some big fussing with every critcal care feeding, so he definitely has strength back!

    Poor Robin Hood has been feeling a little left out with Friar Tuck getting all the extra attention and food--- and today he got too much for his liking with a nail trim lol. But I give him extra pets and tidbits when I can <3

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  17. #71
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    In need of some more thoughts:

    Friar Tuck lost a bit more weight today, going from 1200 to 1186. He picked at hay, lettuce and corn husks today but didn't seem to actually eat them.

    We talked to his vet for about half an hour today, and together decided to take him off the baytril early. He's had 8 doses so far, one at the vet Thursday; two Friday, Saturday, Sunday (morning/night), one this morning. He was originally prescribed it for a week so there's 7 doses left.

    Since he got the first baytril dose Thursday, he has gotten brighter and more active! But the fistful of corn husks yesterday was the first thing I've got him to eat on his own since being on baytril. He shows interest in everything, even excitement,but then won't eat. The vet thought the baytril by now would've cleared a uti or anything similar up, and decided to take him off it and see if this makes a difference in him eating. (He hasn't had anymore pink urine)

    Do you think 4 days/8 doses was long enough?

    How soon should I expect a change if baytril is causing the appetite issues?
    Last edited by MerryFriarTuck; 11-16-20 at 03:50 pm.

  18. #72
    Cavy Champion Guinea Pig Papa's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MerryFriarTuck View Post
    In need of some more thoughts:

    Friar Tuck lost a bit more weight today, going from 1200 to 1186. He picked at hay, lettuce and corn husks today but didn't seem to actually eat them.

    We talked to his vet for about half an hour today, and together decided to take him off the baytril early. He's had 8 doses so far, one at the vet Thursday; two Friday, Saturday, Sunday (morning/night), one this morning. He was originally prescribed it for a week so there's 7 doses left.

    Since he got the first baytril dose Thursday, he has gotten brighter and more active! But the fistful of corn husks yesterday was the first thing I've got him to eat on his own since being on baytril. He shows interest in everything, even excitement,but then won't eat. The vet thought the baytril by now would've cleared a uti or anything similar up, and decided to take him off it and see if this makes a difference in him eating. (He hasn't had anymore pink urine)

    Do you think 4 days/8 doses was long enough?

    How soon should I expect a change if baytril is causing the appetite issues?

    Sigh. I'm not sure where to go with this.

    Simon had a sinus infection and it was a stubborn one. 10 days of Baytril SEEMED to clear it up, but after 4 days off of it the symptoms came back worse than ever. If the Baytril is causing him to have no interest in food, you should know by tomorrow. Every pig I've had on Baytril that reacted that way to it redeveloped an appetite within 24 hours.

    I'm never a fan of stopping an antibiotic until the infection is dead and gone, because if it isn't it can come back worse and resistant to the antibiotic as well. Friar Tucks weight losses seem negligible to me to be perfectly honest. I've been monitoring both Simon and Leo the last two weeks and they have had much bigger weight swings than the 14 grams Friar Tuck has had. He may very well have peed right before you weighed him, which could explain that.

    You and your vet know Friar Tuck best. Personally I don't think 4 days would do it, but I am most certainly not a vet. You'll know within a day or so if his appetite comes back.

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  20. #73
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Being off baytril hasn't seemed to make a difference. I'm going to try and talk everything out here and bounce it off everyone to see what you think....any opinions are appreciated!!!

    Friar Tuck lost a little weight again, dropping from 1186 yesterday 1174 this morning. We always weigh him at the same time each day. He's lost only small amounts of weight each time, and his weight had stabilized a little Friday, Saturday, Sunday, only to continue dropping yesterday and today. He was roughly 1270 when all this started last Tuesday, so he's lost 100 g in total.

    He hasn't had baytril since 8:30 am yesterday. Even on baytril he was interested in and excited for food, would take it in his mouth, and then let it fall back out and refuse to eat. It's still the same story today after being off baytril for 24+ hours. I'll give it the rest of today before giving a verdict. He was interested, chewing on the bars at veggie time, still strong and fairly active, but still won't eat on his own. He ate a handful of cilantro and picked at hay/lettuce twice before getting on baytril. Once on baytril he seemed to get slightly better,and Friday ate a big handful of corn husks. But the last 3 days he's eaten nothing on his own. Even chews on some things a little, but doesn't eat them.

    He's gotten really close to GI Stasis a couple times when this first started. I read in the GI sticky thread that it can take 2-3 weeks to recover from it.


    ***#1 could he simply not be recovered yet? Is it normal for him not to be farther along?

    He had an non anesthetic oral exam Tuesday and a full sedated exam Thursday. They were two different exotic vets and neither found anything.


    ***#2 EVERYTHING seems to point to this being a tooth issue--- what do you think are the odds it could still be this?


    ***#3 I read about a person who's guinea pig didn't have a visible molar issue, but he wouldn't eat, they filed his molars anyway, and now as long as he has it done once a year he eats again. It keeps floating around in my head. Possible? How risky would it be to file molars that don't seem to have an issue, IF it comes to that?

    His x rays Tuesday didn't show any bloat, tumors, stones, anything abnormal. He had pink urine at the vet Thursday but hasn't since.

    One more thing I wanted to put out there is I don't know Friar Tuck's exact age for sure. I always thought he was about 4-6 months old when I got him, because he had the straight, shiny, sharp young guinea pig nails, and he grew a little bit. But when I got Robin Hood, who I know for a fact was 3-4 weeks old, he had the tiny nails until he was a solid 10 months and grew until he was 12 months old. So it's possible Friar Tuck was closer to a year old when I got him, which would make him a solid 3 years old now vs the 2 years, 3 months if my original guess is accurate.

    I just worry it's something more fixable we aren't fixing, because he seems so close to getting better and eating on his own but just hasn't got there.

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    Cavy Champion Guinea Pig Papa's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    When Punkin and Scooter's issues started, Punkin was initially thought to have malocclusion, and he did. But it was CAUSED by an incisor infection. His tooth hurt, so he chewed on one side of his mouth and that in turn caused the malocclusion.

    Scooter presented the exact same way. However, Scooter's infection was not in his mouth, but at the bottom of his ear canal, close to his jaw. That obviously made it painful for him to eat, which in turn causes the chewing on one side and voila. Again, malocclusion. It took some time to finally understand what was going on, and needing to find the right antibiotic. It pains me badly to this day to know that there was a chance to save Punkin, if we had only tried azithromycin FIRST. That's what eventually got Scooter to turn the corner to being well, at the end of November last year.

    I guess what I'm saying is that malocclusion is generally caused by SOMETHING, it usually doesn't happen on it's own. If something is causing him pain when he eats, that in turn will likely cause malocclusion.

    Finding the cause is the key and the only way we found them were repeated vet visits.

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  23. #75
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Friar Tuck is ever so slightly better today!! He took one tiny bite of watermelon, and two tiny bites of celery. He drank from his water bottle 3 times. I caught him chewing something once but couldn't tell what it was he'd nibbled.
    He's been laying half out of the door to his hidey house like usual, like he's feeling stronger and less vulnerable (since he got sick he'd been hiding completely inside). He's wandered around a few times. His urine is 100% normal (we put a white pillow case in his bathroom spot so we know for sure) There's been far fewer poops than normal, but except for a few small poops they're a normal shape/color. His weight is stabilizing again---the last three days he's stayed between 1186 and 1171.

    We've talked to both exotic vets Friar Tuck saw again, as well a dog/cat vet that's a family friend who does basic small animal care, bouncing opinions around. They all think we should ride this out a for a bit and see how much he improves once he has a chance to recover from all the GI stress and baytril.

    So just two questions:

    How long can Friar eat just critcal care before I have to worry about his teeth overgrowing from lack of hay?

    Does critical care have enough vitamin C, or do I need to get a vitamin C supplement for him? The critcal care package says minimum 1500mg of vitamin C.

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    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Guess who popcorned twice, ate three little pieces of hay and a pellet?! It's also a gorgeous day today, 70, and we opened the window by his cage. Friar Tuck's going right up to it and keeps smelling the breeze.

  25. #77
    Cavy Champion Guinea Pig Papa's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Glad to hear he's feeling a little better! I always loved opening the windows in the spring and watching their little noses go berserk, pointed skyward.

    I would begin to worry about the Critical care after a few weeks. I can't remember how long it was, precisely, before Scooter and Punkin had issues but a few weeks is a pretty long stretch. Piggie teeth grow at the rate of 3mm per week or thereabouts, and I do remember that part of their malocclusion issues WAS caused by a steady diet of Critical Care. Also bear in mind that if he's full of Critical Care, he's not going to have much interest in anything else since he's already full. It's a fine line to walk, and there just is no hard and fast rule. You know FT best, So if you think he's ready to eat more on his own and a little less Critical Care, give it a shot.

    It's nerve wracking, I know.

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    Cavy Slave ItsaZoo's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    When mine reacted to Baytril she only had 5 doses and just couldn't stomach hay or pellets, and of course no input, no output. A different vet switched her to Albon and gradually she started getting her appetite back. But it was a few days before she was eating enough on her own, and almost a week until her appetite was back to normal. She liked corn husks the most and pellets the least during that time.

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  29. #79
    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    Thank you SO much @Guinea Pig Papa and @ItsaZoo. <3

    More good news! Friar Tuck is making more and more progress...in the last two days he's eaten corn husks/silk, celery, lettuce, drinking from his water bottle, munched some pellets (!) and just acting like a happier more active piggy.

    He's still, I don't know, careful with chewing? He very gingerly chews on the cage bars at veggie time (but he is!) and sometimes still acts like he wants something but can't eat it, or chews on it then spits it out. But he's making progress every day so far.

    He's more enthusiastic about his critical care, too, actually wanting to eat it (at least for the first couple syringes) instead of going into full wrathful piggy tantrum :)

    His weight is still stable, staying within a couple grams of 1170. There's more poops and pee and all are normal. And he's grooming himself again!

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    Re: Friar Tuck's medical thread

    SO glad to hear! I do have to wonder if it wasn't something like a hay poke in his gums or something along those lines. If that is what it was, I'm very happy that it didn't go along the same lines Punkins did. At least, that's what I believe caused Punkins. There was no way to know for sure.

    Staying tuned for more good updates about our little buddy FT!

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