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Thread: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    So...I need helpful advice and guidance, as well as some patient listeners to hear about my really stupid choice this week.

    On Wednesday I went to a local pet supply store to get a bag of oxbow on my way home from a long day at work because my online order of pellets was delayed due to weather.

    Well, they had some adoption center set up by a local rural shelter. They had 2 very young female guinea pigs.

    I had to find someone to help me find oxbow pellets because there weren't any on the shelf and being unfamiliar with the store, I couldn't find the product even though there was a tag marking that they carried them.

    As I was searching for an employee I encountered a young kid, about 7, acting very bratty. He kept kicking things, yelling about how he didn't want a guinea pig and then following me about as I waited for the employee to check about the oxbow pellets.

    The mom started talking to me and asking me about guinea pig care after she overheard me asking for the pellets. She told me the kid just got their puppy hit by a car because he let it out of their gate on purpose because he was tired of it. She said before the dog he had wanted a guinea pig and so she was there to get one for him so he would stop asking for another dog.

    I tried my best just to talk her out of it explaining they are a lot of work, live up to 6-8 years and are a big commitment. She responded that with her son it'd be lucky to live a year, but that's ok it's just a guinea pig. When I told her their diet is primarily hay, she responded she isn't having that dirty stuff in her house. Then she told me that when the employee came back with the pellets to have them find the person who would let them adopt a guinea pig and she walked away.

    Well....this is where my stupidity began...the employee said they didn't have the pellets and at this point I should have just went home. But...I didn't.

    I asked to speak with the person doing the adoptions and instead of taking him to the mom with the kid, I told him I would look at the guinea pigs. When I saw the youngest one, I could see instantly she was suffering from an URI even though I have been very lucky never to have had an outbreak of illness with my own. Her eyes were filled with gunk, she was listless, coughing and nasal discharge galore (Mumbly).

    As the mother waited beside me she told her son they would just get whichever one I didn't...I told the adoption agent I would take them both. The mom was very upset and had some words. I walked away with both piggies.

    I immediately called my cavy vet who was able to get me in. I was already kicking myself because I have other guinea pigs who have been healthy. Why was I risking this?!

    Well, the new babies, sisters, were estimated to be 5 weeks old. According to the shelter, they were born from a mom who was adopted out after they were dumped at the shelter (who are a cat/dog shelter) and the shelter had them for 2 weeks before I got them.

    My vet had an emergency just as I got there so I had to see someone else, but my cavy vet was there to check them behind the scenes with the other vet. Sure enough, the one has a upper respiratory infection (Mumbly). She needed sub-q fluids right away and they didn't think she would make it.

    I got bene-bac, antibiotic for both (as a precaution for Nouget although she showed no symptoms) and critical care.

    Antibiotic: Enrofloxacin 30mg/ml - Nouget 0.13ml, Mumbly 0.12ml two times daily/10 days

    (My concerns: I researched and found this antibiotic can cause problems, especially in young pigs with growth...should I insist on another antibiotic? I also read that for severe URI it can take longer on antibiotics to prevent a relapse?)

    Benebac: pea size amount daily, 2-3 hours before last dose of antibiotic

    Critical care: 6cc, 3 times daily for Mumbly (when can I comfortably stop with syringe feedings?)

    Weights: starting weights 329g Mumbly, 383g Nouget
    Today's weights: 345g Mumbly, 397g Nouget

    They have both started eating on their own (hay and pellets) and yesterday I was able to coax them to eat veggies (green leaf lettuce, red lettuce, green & red peppers). Today they ate wonderfully on their own, but I am still worried about their weight gain and possible belly upset from antibiotic. Both have clear eyes already and I no longer see any nasal discharge. Mumbly still sneezes pretty regularly, but haven't heard the cough today. Their poop looks great and lots of it today!

    I have them in a separate room from my other pigs, have taken care of them after caring for my others first each day and carefully change clothes/ wash hands in between. I use fleece bedding so I have washed things separately using bleach and the sanitize setting. Am I doing enough to keep my others from getting sick?

    My cavy vet won't be in the office until Wednesday, so I am reaching out to you all for advice, encouragement and tips.

    And so, let the scolding begin for my stupidity and putting my other pigs at risk...but please I would be very grateful for any advice as well. This is my first time dealing with URI in any of my pigs. Thank you all!

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    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    I'm afraid I don't have any experience with sick piggies and/or antibiotics, so I can't help or advise you there... But I do want to say, if I was you, I would have done the exact same thing! All our pets we've ever had have been rescues, whether literally, or rescued from a situation along the lines of Mumbley and Nouget ❤️

    Our newest addition is Periwinkle, an Indian ringneck parakeet. We ran into a man selling him because he "was stupid, mean, and constantly screamed". Much like an older version of the bratty 7 year old you met, every time Periwinkle so much as peeped he bellowed or kicked the cage. The cage had no perches, of course no toys, and was way too small. So even though we weren't looking to adopt another bird, and certainly not buy one, and had to shift things around to fit a suitable cage...we bought him ;)

    He went from not knowing how to perch to being able to swing around like an acrobat. He never bites, talks adorably, and only ever screams if something startles him. So I just wanted to let you know though there's people like the mother and little boy, there's also lots of people like you...like us!

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    Cavy Slave LittleSqueakers's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    No scolding here! Thank you for taking in the little girls, as it sounds like you just prevented disaster to them. Sounds like you showed a lot more restraint than I would have dealing with the mother and child. Glad I wasn't there; I would've let them know exactly what I thought of them! Personally, I don't think kids should get to have "their own pets" until they are old enough and responsible enough to earn their own money from sources outside the household, either by babysitting, house sitting, dog walking, mowing lawns, paper route, etc. Until they reach that level of independence and maturity, kids should participate in the care of family pets, controlled by the parents. Pets are not an experiment or a life lesson in responsibility. And how does anyone expect to raise their child into a responsible and compassionate adult if you don't teach them early on that all living things are worthy of their care and respect? This sort of thing just makes me angry. But I digress. :P Anyway, on to your questions!

    I, too, have heard that Baytril (enrofloxacin) should generally not be used in growing animals (can't remember exactly where I read it). I'm guessing that the reason the vet decided to use Baytril anyway is that Baytril is generally considered to be a stronger antibiotic than say, SMZ, and Mumbly is already so sick that she needs a strong antibiotic to save her life. But if you're concerned about it at all, you can always call the vet as soon as he/she is back in the office and ask about it. It likely will take a longer course of antibiotic to treat a particularly bad URI because it will probably take longer for her to recover from illness. Generally, you keep the animal on antibiotics until they've fully recovered and then a little bit longer, just to make sure you've killed ALL the cooties.

    Benebac should be given 1-2 hours AFTER the dose of antibiotics, not before. The antibiotics affect the gut flora with each dose they take. Your goal in giving the benebac is to restore the damaged gut flora immediately after each antibiotic dose.

    Critical Care is primarily used when the pig isn't eating, or is eating poorly. If you say Mumbly is eating pretty well on her own, you may not have to feed Critical Care, or you can just do smaller amounts fed less frequently to help supplement her nutritional status while she recovers. However, the overall goal is always to get the pig to eat on her own.

    Their weights have gone up, not down, over the past few days, so hooray! Don't worry too much yet about how fast they're gaining, as it's still early days. Just make sure they're continuing to gain, not drop. The fact that the sick one is gaining weight as well is a very good sign.

    It's wonderful that they're eating veggies already, just be careful not to introduce too many veggies too fast, as this can cause digestive upset. Leaf lettuce and bell peppers should definitely be the first, staple veggies that they get. Maybe consider giving an extra vitamin C supplement to Mumbly as well right now, while she's sick. As long as you can see that they're both eating well and their making plenty of normal-looking stools, there's no digestive upset going on. Sounds like Mumbly might already be improving on the antibiotics; keep it up!

    Your precautions to keep from spreading cooties to your other pigs sound good. Is there still a chance that it could somehow to get to your established herd despite you taking all the necessary precautions? Sure; there always will be. But since you don't have access to a hospital-quality isolation ward and hazmat suit, you're already doing everything you reasonably can to prevent infection. It should be enough.

    Please do keep us posted on how everything goes for you!

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Thank you @MerryFriarTuck for the encouragement!

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Thank you @LittleSqueakers!

    I will change when I am giving the Bene-bac. Thank you. I have also given them liquid vitamin C supplements via a syringe.

    I am also going to call the vet's office on Monday to at least get a message and call back (hopefully) from my cavy vet. There is another Dr who sees guinea pigs, but she usually asks questions to my cavy vet anyway.

    I appreciate your encouragement and advice. And will definitely keep you posted on how things go.

    Thank you again!

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    Administrator bpatters's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Baytril (enrofloxacin) can stunt a pig's growth. But if the pig isn't going to make it without a strong antibiotic, stunted growth isn't much to worry about, IMO. You could ask about switching to something else, but it's likely the vet thought the stronger AB was needed.

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Attached are some pictures.Click image for larger version. 

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    Nouget is on the left and Mumbly is on the right

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    Cavy Slave LittleSqueakers's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Oh my gosh, they're precious! I just love baby piggies! <3

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    Cavy Slave MerryFriarTuck's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Oh my, yes!!! So so beautiful--- I've never seen such a merle of colors like that. How wonderful you saved such precious little piggies!

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    Cavy Slave MaiaBex's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    No no no no no... no scolding! Not stupid -- heroic! You saved their lives! That is an AWESOME thing! (And they are such adorable little puffs too!)

    I would have done exactly the same thing -- rescue first, figure out logistics of caring for a sick piggy later. And it sounds like you're doing a great job. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted on how Mumbly and Nouget are doing!

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    Cavy Slave MaiaBex's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    @Smileandnod... how are Nougat and Mumbly doing?

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    Cavy Slave spy9doc's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smileandnod View Post
    Nouget is on the left and Mumbly is on the right
    It's too bad I don't live within driving distance to you. I'd take them in a heartbeat!

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaiaBex View Post
    @Smileandnod... how are Nougat and Mumbly doing?
    Thank you for asking...I guess I should have updated!

    They are doing Fantastic! They needed a second course of antibiotics and a different type this time around (doxycycline).

    They are off the antibiotics finally and have recently got the go ahead to combine them with the other guinea pigs. They are loving the space (a 6x6 main level with a 2x10 L shaped loft up top). They run up one ramp do a lap upstairs and run down the other. Our neutered male is their new best friend. It's funny to watch because he will set limits with the older girls, but let's the babies literally jump all over him!

    I feel very fortunate they made it and are doing ok...still small (Nouget is 595g and Mumbly 504 as of today) so we have the cage babyproofed, but gaining every day.

    My vet said that another guinea pig that was brought in the same night I brought these little ones in had similar symptoms and that one unfortunately didn't make it. She actually thought that one was going to be ok and Mumbly wouldn't have made it through that first night...but Mumbly definitely is a fighter. It was an exhausting couple weeks ...but definitely worth it.

    I also want to thank everyone on this forum for their support...it definitely helped.

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spy9doc View Post
    It's too bad I don't live within driving distance to you. I'd take them in a heartbeat!
    They are a couple of funny girls. They have attitudes to match that crazy Abby hair!

    It's funny because all my adult girls are pretty skittish. My neutered male will come up for head rubs and loving. So when Mumbly started coming up for head rubs and back scratches while her sister ran off I kept looking her over to make sure she was definitely a girl! Poor thing must have been checked over half a dozen times because she acts so much like my neutered male! ...which of course I love! And she is definitely a she!

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    Cavy Slave spy9doc's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smileandnod View Post
    They are a couple of funny girls. They have attitudes to match that crazy Abby hair!
    Abytude.......one of the many reasons I've been in love with Abys for many years!

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    Cavy Slave Smileandnod's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spy9doc View Post
    Abytude.......one of the many reasons I've been in love with Abys for many years!
    "Abytude"....Love it! :-)

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    Cavy Slave MaiaBex's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbly and Nouget med thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smileandnod View Post
    They are off the antibiotics finally and have recently got the go ahead to combine them with the other guinea pigs. They are loving the space (a 6x6 main level with a 2x10 L shaped loft up top). They run up one ramp do a lap upstairs and run down the other. Our neutered male is their new best friend. It's funny to watch because he will set limits with the older girls, but let's the babies literally jump all over him!
    Totally awesome! And I love your description of how tolerant your neutered male is with them... that is so cute!

    Those two definitely fell into the sweet smelling hay with you. Keep up the good work!

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