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Frustrated Guinea Pigs in the Classroom - an alternative point of view :)

Dashmo

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mdodge raises a valid concern about the car rides back and forth. If it's a 5-10 minute drive, maybe it's no big deal, but if the weather is very cold or hot and it's a long drive it could stress them out. I know my guys don't really like car rides and get antsy after a while, but that's just them. Of course they only get in the car for vet visits, so maybe if they were exposed to it more often they wouldn't mind it, I don't know.

Perhaps you've already considered this though, it certainly doesn't appear that you're approaching this flippantly.
 

sallyvh

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I'm a big fan of using animals for educational and comfort uses but the success all depends on the personality and comfort of the animals.

In my home we have a certified therapy cat. I volunteer with my SPCA's PET program (pet encounter therapy) and take him to schools, nursing homes, summer camps ect. This cat LOVES people, he is very friendly, interactive and calm. He is not stressed by travelling and we are able to do this with him because he is very comfortable with it. He is the only one out of all 6 of our cats that is suitable for this though.

During the summers I work for my SPCA's summer camp for children. This camp is largely based on education for proper care and respect of animals. We have speakers come in all week to talk about different animals and topics. I bring in 2 of my guinea pigs one a day a week for a presentation on guinea pig/small animal care. In the mornings I set up a grid pen with a liner in my boss's office. She loves my girls and her office is calm, quiet and the whole building is well air-conditioned. I bring my pigs out for about 30 minutes and talk to the kids and then they have an opportunity to pet them. A trusted co-worker holds one in a cuddle cup and I hold the other in a cuddle cup. They kids come up one at a time and get to pet them and ask any questions. The whole interaction period is well controlled and supervised, I'm sure the kids are petting them in an appropriate way. When I'm done the girls go right back into the office until I bring them home at the end of the day.

Last summer my girls grew to be very comfortable with the arrangements and I plan on doing it again this year. I'm always sure that they are relaxed otherwise I wouldn't do it at all. My goal is to educate children about proper care, not stress out my beloved pets. Lots of these kids have/had guinea pigs and I always hand out basic care sheets for kids to take home. I only bring my two younger girls though as they are much more outgoing and the one especially is very confident. I have a pair of older sows that I would never consider bringing as the one is very against handling, she can be quite testy with me so I know it would stress her out to be pet by strangers. You really need to know your pig's personalities to be sure they will be calm and confident in their environment. I would also limit them being passed around by a bunch of kids, no matter how friendly of a pig you have, that will stress them out.

Your care plan does sound acceptable but maybe you could consider only bringing them in for a couple days every now and then? One reason I would be very hesitant about having them as classroom pets is that you can easily miss signs of an illness. They are very likely to hide anything extremely well while there is the hustle and bustle of kids around. If they are feeling under the weather it's going to be while it's quiet and no one is around. I wouldn't want to leave them during weeknights for that reason. Speaking form experience I have a stone pig, while she had a stone she had almost no symptoms. No change in behavior, no hunching, straining, squealing and no bloody urine that I could see. The only indication to me was once I turned out the lights and went to bed I heard a couple pain squeaks. During the day she was perfectly fine and normal.

This is obviously a pretty heated topic. You sound like you will give them great care and you know your pigs best though and hopefully you make decisions in the best interests of your pigs.
 

mdodge

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Rabbits are much easier handled and aren't that stressed Their a lot more durable you can say and adapt to climate changes plus theirs so many different varieties that you can find a good fit for a classroom environment. I was in 4-h for a while with my daughter and we used to have a mini rex .
 

bpatters

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The heat on the car rides is much more of a problem than the cold. Guinea pigs do much better in cold weather than they do in hot, and eighty-five degrees is the point at which they're susceptible to heat stroke. It's not going to kill them to be transported from the school to the car in that heat, but the car will need to be cool, or to cool off very quickly without the A/C blowing directly at them.

MrsATeaches5th, I don't know of any studies on stress in guinea pigs. But observing 99% of the guinea pigs that I've ever seen caught tells me that they're definitely stressed by it, and that it takes a LOT of patience and work to teach them to allow one or two people to pick them up without panicking. They also startle very easily, sometimes at nothing that can be seen or heard, possibly a shadow, and run in panic. I'm not saying that doesn't happen at home, but that there are many more opportunities for it to happen in a classroom.

I've not been around as many rabbits as I have guinea pigs, but they don't appear to me to have the same startle response or the same flight response that guinea pigs do. I'll leave it to the rabbit owners to comment on that.

And as for your being a science teacher, it's well and good that you're looking for research, but sometimes your gut will tell you something whether you can find a scholarly article to back it up or not. And my gut says to me that any animal that hates to be picked up as much as most guinea pigs do is not a suitable classroom pet. Most reputable rescues will not adopt out a guinea pig that is going to be placed in a classroom, and that's based on their years of interacting with people and guinea pigs. This site does not recommend it, nor does Guinea Lynx, and they're two of the best guinea pig sites on the internet.

You can obviously do what you like with your pigs. But I think you should ask yourself whether you're really doing the best thing for the pigs as well as the kids, or whether you're just justifying it because it's somethng you want to do.
 

sallyvh

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For car rides I would purchase a cat carrier. You don't want to transport them in a big space, if you ever get into an accident they could be knocked around and injured. You want a small secure space. Keep in mind that some pigs don't do well in a cramped space together so you may need to separate for car rides.

I travel back and forth from University with my pigs every 2-3 weeks during the school year and they don't enjoy the car but they are pretty calm in their carriers and will munch on veggies during our trips. You need to make sure you have control of the temperature in your vehicle.


I can't speak on how well rabbits do with kids but one pet that i feel is very interactive and would enjoy all the handling is rats. My roommate has them and through past experiences rats are very curious and outgoing. Almost every single one that I have met loves being handled, they readily come for out of cage time and they aren't too nervous with strangers. My roommates girls love to hang out on my shoulder while I study and they are much more confident compared to guinea pigs. Again, I wouldn't recommend leaving them overnight but they would probably be much happier with attention during the day.
 

BaconAndEggs

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Okay. First of all, hello there! Second, I am just going to say, without pointing fingers or stirring up an argument-because I don't like conflict-that [MENTION=35334]MrsATeaches5th[/MENTION] is putting the upmost thought into this situation. Many people do raise valid points about stress, but if you only let one or two children come up to the cage for a pat once in a while, it would surely be much better than them sitting at home the whole day while their owner goes to work.
I am a child myself, so I have experienced first-hand how pets can positively affect children. Why, they positively affect me every day! Animals are wonderful for therapy, and, in most cases, work better than the best therapist. Why? Because they make children feel secure, giving them a little bundle to share secrets with, who's little wheeks or squeaks can brighten their day in an instant.
I also want to point out that this could work positively in another way-say a couple of the students have a guinea pig at home, with vitamin C supplements, in a tiny cage, without proper care? Well, this could obviously educate them on the correct care, show them what wonderful animals guinea pigs are, and save a piggy or three from misery!
I agree that a classroom is not always the proper place for a guinea pig, but, honestly, you have this all thought out! I think it is a wonderful idea, if it goes through the correct way.
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

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I think my point of posting this was to start a conversation about guinea pigs as companions in the classroom. The majority of arguments against the prospect were due to the animals being kept in tiny, dirty cages and getting neglected at night and on weekends...exposed to extreme temperature situations. I wanted to hear thoughts about the other factors (fear - for example). I would like to hear accounts of this causing pets stress, guinea pigs biting kids, documented articles, etc... Because I have read LOADS of research from vets and psychologists about the benefits of guinea pigs in classrooms. But all I have read about from the POV here is that they are at risk of neglect / improper living conditions.

From my experience it seems that guinea pigs/all animals in general in classroom settings have shorter lifespans. Now my experience is in the daycare setting, but still these animals were cared for. I've not heard of a pig living longer than a few years (in my experience/the people I know). My assumption (strictly an assumption) is it's related to stress. I know stress is awful for the body.

Can you post some of the links to that research? I've done a lot of searching in the past on guinea pigs in scholarly journal articles (mostly medical, but I've tried to read everything I can find that mentions them), and I've not come across a single article that talks about guinea pigs in classrooms.


I guess what is really at issue here is...what is the end goal or purpose of having domestic animals, period? Humans domesticated animals for companionship. We "USE" them to be our companions or serve some purpose for us. How can I answer the question "How do I know it likes to be held?" Well...I guess I just know because it isn't biting my hand off? How does anyone know what a guinea pig is thinking? I've read/watched/listened to numerous web items about guinea pig sounds and what they mean. But then someone will turn around and say that the sounds mean different things coming from different piggies. I guess until my herd learns to speak English I will just have to follow my gut and go with "Wheeking / high chortles" =good/happy, "Grumbling, growling, teeth chattering, whining" =unhappy/mad/stay away-put down. I don't put a lot of thought into it beyond that. :)

Guinea pigs don't really bite very often so just because it isn't biting your hand off doesn't mean anything, and wheeking doesn't automatically mean happiness. To understand the animal you have you must "know" them and casual interactions don't allow for that level of knowing (I'm talking about the kindergarten pig in this case). You should put a lot of thought into learning your animals communication because it's the only way you will know something is wrong. Don't learn other people's animals (the videos online or other sources) learn your own animals.

Humans domesticated the majority of animals as food or transportation. Even guinea pigs were domesticated as a source of food. The only animal I can think of domesticated strictly as a companion is the cat. Dogs domesticated themselves because they viewed us as a food source (they would eat our scraps).


The sad fact is that many irresponsible acquire animals and then can't / won't care for them in the end. So, humans have a track record of not complying with the intrinsic agreement that came with domesticating animals for companionship in the first place. At the same time, many humans also eat animals, destroy their habitats (or support practices that do). Every person I know that is vegan still in someway partakes in a lifestyle activity that in some way, shape or form destroys animal habitats (look at how many products in your home contain palm oil for starters). Let's face it - we are at the top of the food chain and at some point we are causing the death of some other living creature - large or small - just by existing in modern society.

Just because you did in the past doesn't mean you have to in the future. I know several people who are working on creating self-sustaining farmsteads that do not include animal slaughter. That's not to say there is not the need to buy some products off the farm, but moving in the right direction is key.

Animal welfare is a worthy cause; and I commend you all for it. I am an advocate for children, first and foremost. It's hard to admit that. If animals help a student with autism communicate, help a child with ADHD focus, or teach a child to have empathy for another living being...I will use that animal to serve it's purpose - while giving it love & care at the same time. Does it make me a hypocrite to say that? I guess so. But I'm a hypocrite everyday because I use shampoo that has Palm Oil in it, I eat "Cheeze It" crackers and Oreos...both contain palm oil (as does just about every other preserved/packaged food). And I LOVE orangutans and Sumatran elephants, but they are highly endangered due to palm oil production. At the end of the day though, I had quit advocating for the anti-palm oil cause when I found out that palm oil production was giving the indigenous people in Indonesia access to medical care, clean drinking water, and schools. My hope is that enough land will be preserved for the orangutans and elephants (like a wildlife preserve). Such is the case with guinea pigs in the classroom. It might not be the ideal situation for the guinea pigs, but the educated teacher can do everything she can to create a good habitat for the piggies while giving her students an incredible learning experience.

The indigenous people of Indonesia likely have illness and poor water because of the western capitalists who come to exploit their natural resources. If you ever can get your hands on it, the film Trinkets and Beads is about the way oil companies used the allure of western society (education, infrastructure, etc) to get their hands on indigenous lands in the Amazon. What's the point in an education if your homeland is destroyed. Development in the periphery is not about benefiting local populations, but instead on creating dependance to the core countries. If it was about benefiting the local populations they would have access to medical care, schools and clear drinking water without giving up their lands.


Nazgul: I know what the opinion of some guinea pig advocates on this site is...however there are plenty of other platforms that have a dissenting view.
 

WheekingPiggies

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Wow, you've clearly put a lot of thought into this. Honestly, these pigs will have a better home in the classroom that 75% of the people that have them as pets. I think the more time you spend interacting with guinea pigs, like holding and hand feeding them veggies, the more they enjoy the attention and learn good things come from humans. I think guinea pigs provide a multitude of learning opportunities for the children. I know I would have been super excited if I got to take part in some of the things you're planning. I'm sure you'll be teaching them rules on handling the guinea pigs to make sure it's as safe as possible. Two I thought of are to make sure you're the one getting the guinea pigs out of the cage and to make sure the kids sit down while they hold them. I can't remember if you mentioned this, but you might want to consider having lids on the cages so the pigs are more protected.

Usually, I would advise against classroom pets, but I feel confident that you'll provide a great life for your piggies. Maybe you'll even change the lives of your students' guinea pigs when they see how yours are cared for.

Also, all the rabbit owners I know would assure you that rabbits make horrible classroom pets. They are very destructive, need to be free ranged much of the day, and often don't like to be held.
 

Dashmo

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I also want to point out that this could work positively in another way-say a couple of the students have a guinea pig at home, with vitamin C supplements, in a tiny cage, without proper care? Well, this could obviously educate them on the correct care, show them what wonderful animals guinea pigs are, and save a piggy or three from misery!

This is an excellent point.
 

sallyvh

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these pigs will have a better home in the classroom that 75% of the people that have them as pets.

This is not a constructive way of thinking. This statement right there can be used as an "excuse" to not give an animal proper care. Just because a guinea pig will have a bigger cage and better food does not make it's care right. Just because it is better compared to the worst care does not make it acceptable care.

Although I don't agree with classroom pets, the OP does sound like she is offering good care to her pigs. I just HATE the statement that "oh well what you're doing is better than most so it's fine".
 

jade_14

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I think you have obviously put a lot of thought into this and sound like a very responsible pet owner & teacher! Your students will be lucky to be able to learn about the pigs and be educated in pet ownership. I wish I had that opportunity when I was in school! Good luck with it! :)
 

pinky

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The one thing that I don't think was taken into consideration is that guinea pigs, like humans, have different personalities. I've been a volunteer with a rescue for many years and have worked at a lot of the adopt a pet events that we've held. The woman who runs the rescue always very carefully selects the guinea pigs she brings along and never brings the shy or skittish ones. She's adopted out over 4000 guinea pigs since 1999 so she's always been a very good judge of matching guinea pigs to households and assessing their personalities. I personally don't think housing guinea pigs in a classroom is a good idea but if it's going to be done, the guinea pigs should have been selected by someone who could assess their personalities. As a parent, I'd personally rather have my kids spend their time in the classroom getting an education than holding a guinea pig. I think 5th graders are more challenging than younger students and the guinea pigs are probably more at risk with the older kids.
 

Fay

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Just something to think about but why can you not teach the children about guinea pig care without keeping them in the class room? You could just have a complete cage set up with stuffed toy guinea pigs in it.

That way you could still teach them all the same things using the toys without it stressing out the pigs. If anything, you could explain why toys are used over live animals which teaches the kids that the animals well being should always go before what you want from them.

That being a pet owner is about providing everything they need regardless of your own desires, even if that means you have to do something you don't like doing, like cleaning up after them.

That, that is what you sign yourself upto when you own a pet and that could be a great lesson for the children in respecting animals rather than seeing them as play things for their own amusement.
 
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Rywen

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This is a fascinating discussion! I want to say something along the same lines as [MENTION=15081]pinky[/MENTION] about personality being a major factor to consider. My Ferb loves people and nothing phases him. He rarely startles or hides. He loves going places and meeting new people, he's fine with car rides (he eats and sleeps). He always wants to know what's going on. He's trained to walk into a cuddle sack when I want to take him out of the cage (I highly recommend this if you can train your piggies to do it). That said, he's not a lap pig, he doesn't like to sit still, he always wants to explore. And, he used to bite. He's grown out of it but will still check you with his teeth if he doesn't like what you are doing or if he doesn't see your hand coming to pet him. Ferb would probably love being in a classroom but is not a suitable pet for children. Penny, on the other hand, is still skittish after a year. She's way better than she was when I adopted her but still startles a lot. She doesn't like new people. She will settle in on me for lap time but with anyone else she freezes up and flees to a hiding spot the first chance she gets. I'm pretty sure she also gets car sick, she's fine for the first few minutes and then turns her head to a corner of the carrier, puffs up and starts "crying". Penny would probably die of fright in a classroom. I think if you can find piggies with the right personalities it will work out fine. My sister teaches 4th-6th graders, she says you must do a lesson on guinea pig (and other animal) coprophagy, kids that age will love it!
 

Soecara

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I'm not going to comment on the classroom pet argument, there are many good points already made. However I do have a few tips for if you do end up having them as classroom pets.

You might be better off using bluegrass or orchard grass hay as they are less likely to cause allergies then timothy hay. I also recommend not leaving them alone overnight in the classroom, take them home with you every time you leave school. One reason for this is the situation in which you fall ill, your car breaks, there is extreme weather, or any other situation that causes you to be unable to go into school, the guinea pigs would be much better off at home with you if that were to happen. The second scenario is one where the classroom gets broken into overnight, it isn't very common but it does happen and if it does happen you don't want the pigs in the room.
 

surlypiggy

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I am not for having guinea pigs in the classroom, mainly because they are very skiddish. If you MUST have them, I would have a lid made for each cage, and I would keep those lids locked. Our biology teachers in high school kept guinea pigs- males in one classroom, females in the other. I can't tell you how many times kids would drop a female in the males' cage. That's something to consider. Also, I know how much my pigs hate to be picked up, and sometimes I accidentally squeeze one trying to catch them to go back to their cage after floor time. If pigs don't want to be caught, they will make it difficult. At 34, I have problems sometimes. At 10-11, it would be much worse. Please, please do NOT let the students pick them up or hold them. You can hold them and let the kids pet them.

But again, you've said what's good for the students and for you, as a teacher. The adult reasoning would be to keep what's good for the guinea pigs ahead of anything else.

My cousin has taught 5th grade for 9 years. She is also a science teacher and has had several classroom pets over the years. The best fit for her class is having two hamsters. She puts them in exercise balls twice a day for half an hour each time, and lets them run around the classroom. Her students love it. They eat lunch in the classroom, so she lets them out at lunchtime and once while she lectures. Students take turns being in charge of feeding them for a week, and she has incorporated them into lessons. But the kids aren't allowed to hold them. Could this be a solution?

Also, please NEVER put guinea pigs in exercise balls. It will damage their spines.
 

mdodge

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Just catching up on the thread after reading the post by soecara who brought up some great points I thought about another thing ..maintenance.. the school janitors when they clean and mop the classrooms the fumes from the cleaning solutions. the doors are usually closed after their done and no ventilation.
 

emilygn

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When I was in kindergarten, we had a substitute teacher for a week and she would bring in her pet Rabbit Gloria. Back then, I thought Gloria was the best thing on earth and the most exciting part about school - I was excited to go! However, now looking back (especially after owning several rabbits for many years) I find myself noticing that Gloria wasn't as happy as I thought she was. She was unhappy, constantly hunched up and her ears were always flat on her back - always bad signs in rabbits. She would startle when kids would pet her, and tried to get away from our grabby little hands.

We didn't have any lessons or teachings on how to handle rabbits, however, so I think that whole situation was a bit of a mess. I'm honestly surprised that no one was bitten!

After owning both rabbits and guinea pigs, it is of my own personal opinion that rabbits are more hardy. They seem to be able to tolerate things better than guinea pigs. Even my most hardiest guinea Gertie still startles in situations where our 3 rabbits will barely blink an eye. However, someone made the good point of personality. I have three very distinct personalities in my rabbits, with two being suited to classroom life in my opinion. One of ours was abused by his previous owners so he is very afraid of people, even after a year, and constantly growls even at us, though he has grown to have some affection for us. Our other two rabbits, however, absolutely LOVE attention and will dance to get it, and will sit for hours as long as they are getting a nice pat.

My point is, if you are to go with a classroom animal, I would choose a rabbit over a guinea pig. Rabbits deal with temperature changes better, although there will be the problem of allergies (I myself am allergic to rabbits, but I have lost all my symptoms after handling them for years, lucky me!). Another downside is that if they are unhappy about something, they tend to let people know it, either by scratching, kicking or biting. Then there are the hormonal changes....

Guinea pigs appear more docile at first, and their claws hardly inflict severe scratches like rabbits. There are upsides and downsides to each animal, but if you get the right personality and fully inform the kids how to deal with the animal, I think it should be okay. The other problems I can see are the ones bpatters has raised about overnight care, etc.

I am in education to be a teacher currently (English & Sociology) and love the idea of a classroom animal. I guess it solely depends on what is good for the animal, first and foremost.
 

BaconAndEggs

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Just catching up on the thread after reading the post by soecara who brought up some great points I thought about another thing ..maintenance.. the school janitors when they clean and mop the classrooms the fumes from the cleaning solutions. the doors are usually closed after their done and no ventilation.

Yes, I was thinking about this too. So, it might be a better idea not to leave them at school overnight. Maybe it's just being paranoid, but it unnerves me when I have to leave my piggies home along for a night.

Also, some good points have been made about things-I do agree that it is crucial to bring the piggies' personalities into play. I would never even consider letting Eggs meet any people in large amounts. I received him when he was a baby, and he has been skittish ever since. I must point out, however, that, in my experience, there are more skittish piggies than not. Yes, guinea pigs can be trained, and it might work, but you can never really tell how they're going to react until you put them into a room with a bunch of people and they either freak out, run into their hidey for hours, or see it as an opportunity for treats and start wheeking.

I know 5th graders. I was a fifth grader myself. It might be very hard to quiet them down around the piggies. It is only a possibility, but what if you left the room for a few moments, and some boys started poking at them? People can be cruel-I've seen that. Boys are always aiming to be clowns, but couldn't it go too far? I also agree with @Fay's idea.

It sounds as if you have put a lot of thought into this, and care a lot for these guinea pigs, but please understand that there are so many risks, possibilities, and "What if's". If something bad happens, it's only a matter of time before the guinea pigs' lives are in danger.
 

pinky

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Yes, I was thinking about this too. So, it might be a better idea not to leave them at school overnight. Maybe it's just being paranoid, but it unnerves me when I have to leave my piggies home along for a night.

Also, some good points have been made about things-I do agree that it is crucial to bring the piggies' personalities into play. I would never even consider letting Eggs meet any people in large amounts. I received him when he was a baby, and he has been skittish ever since. I must point out, however, that, in my experience, there are more skittish piggies than not. Yes, guinea pigs can be trained, and it might work, but you can never really tell how they're going to react until you put them into a room with a bunch of people and they either freak out, run into their hidey for hours, or see it as an opportunity for treats and start wheeking.

I know 5th graders. I was a fifth grader myself. It might be very hard to quiet them down around the piggies. It is only a possibility, but what if you left the room for a few moments, and some boys started poking at them? People can be cruel-I've seen that. Boys are always aiming to be clowns, but couldn't it go too far? I also agree with @Fay's idea.

It sounds as if you have put a lot of thought into this, and care a lot for these guinea pigs, but please understand that there are so many risks, possibilities, and "What if's". If something bad happens, it's only a matter of time before the guinea pigs' lives are in danger.
[MENTION=33364]BaconAndEggs[/MENTION], I agree with you. I was a lunch mom for years and a classroom volunteer so I observed a lot of things with the different age groups. 5th grade was always a turning point for the kids each year and we'd joke that those kids were "sowing their oats." We'd always see a lot of wild and risky behavior that we never saw with the younger kids. Kids that age don't have the maturity level that those a little older have so I don't believe it's a good age to expose helpless animals to.
 
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Guinea_Pigs_Are_A_lifest
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