Aggression Intros went fine but Not getting along in cage

PrincessAngel · Aug 7, 2014

So I was afraid this would happen when I introduced my new pig to my pair of pigs. Penelope (bonded pair) has done this previously with my deceased pig.

Penelope will be fine with the other pig on the floor, or really anywhere outside of the cage. But once in the cage she becomes different. She is not overly aggressive. She doesn't really chase or rumblestrut. Basically she just makes angry noises or ignores the other pig. Penelope is not really dominant and this is the second time she has drawn blood doing intros. She did it a year ago to my deceased pig (whom she was adopted with). Yesterday I did intros with my new pig and after 3 hours in the cage together Penelope bit Squiggles on the side and ear.

With all this in mind,I also have a third pig Charlie-Muffin who is submissive and too old to care. Penelope gets along with her, they are best buddies. Tiger Lily (deceased) got along with Charlie. And now Squiggles as well gets along with Charlie. So this is definitely a Penelope issue. I don't get it because Penelope now that she has aged is fairly laid back, with some occasional bursts of energy. I don't think she has ovarian cysts, she's never had the physical signs and she is not aggressive. She just seems to have a low tolerance for being harassed. Squiggles actually has ovarian cysts but she's been treated so I don't know if she's the problem, and needs another round of shots?, but like I said she was fine with Charlie and wasn't being aggressive with her.

Last night I did intros on neutral grounds with lots of food and everyone got on well. In the cage the had moments of normal dominance and peace. At one point they all were sleeping in a corner together. Then they started fighting and I was not quick enough to stop it. The cage is 2x5, and expanding it would be close to impossible unless I invest in a new TV and find somewhere new to put my turtles cage. I honestly think my dog was also stressing them out but I could not get him anywhere to be calm as it was late at night and everyone was trying to sleep. (No one wants a barking dog).

Any idea what is going on here? When should I try intros again (with a buddy bath definitely!)? Or is Squiggles too traumatized?

Squiggles is 2yrs old, Penelope 5yrs old, and Charlie-Muffin is 7yrs old. If that helps any.

starrgazerr · Aug 7, 2014

try buddy bathing them! That helps piggies a lot.

PrincessAngel · Aug 7, 2014

starrgazerr said:
try buddy bathing them! That helps piggies a lot.

I'm going buddy bathe them eventually. I just don't know how long to wait. I don't to do it too soon since Squiggles did get wounded.

Currently I have my 2x5 cage divided so that Squiggles has a 2x2 and the others have a 2x3 section. They seem to be doing fine this way. Penelope pretty much ignores Squiggles even when Squiggles does rumbling at the dividing wall. Maybe Penelope just needs to get used to the idea that she has to share Charlie with someone else now.

PrincessAngel · Aug 8, 2014

So right now they are divided in the big cage still. Still mostly ignoring each other for the most part. Sometimes Squiggles will stick her nose through the grids and Penelope will snap at her. But Penelope doesn't make the angry noises. Side note Squiggles doesn't eat much. She likes lettuce and celery leaves. I can get her to eat a bit of carrot and cucumber and sometimes bell pepper. I bought a week's worth of lettuce abd it's all gone now because that's the only veggie I can get her to eat! I bought the lettuce Tuesday night...

My game plan for now is to give them a few more for Squiggles wounds to heal. Then I'll give them a buddy bath in the morning and put them in the neutral zone for most of the day and let their cage sit with vinegar and baking soda to deodorize it and the whole room in general. And if things don't go well after that, then I don't know what to do with them, except maybe take Squiggles to get another hormone shot.

pigger123 · Aug 8, 2014

A 2x5 is kinda small for a trio, especially if they don't get along very well. I would definitely expand if at all possible. Did you make sure to clean the cage really well before you put them all in it together?

PrincessAngel · Aug 8, 2014

@pigger123 A 2x5 is fine for a trio of females. I had a trio for over 4 years in it and when I first started with trios they were in a 2x4 fine. I can't expand the cage anymore or I would. I cleaned the cage well before putting them in, this is definitely not my first time doing this since I've had many guinea pigs and intros in the past for 11yrs. This is the first time my pigs have just gotten along so badly when they've first met. I think I should have let them be in neutral territory a little longer and maybe they would get along better. Honestly it's more like have a pair of pigs because my oldest doesn't partake in dominance or really any interactions with the others. She therefore gets along with everyone.

PrincessAngel · Aug 8, 2014

As long as food is involved they seem fine. Squiggles is on the left and Penelope is on the right. Maybe they will learn to associate each other's presence with good things! (I know it doesn't really work that way, but one can dream right?)

WheekedGoodPigs · Aug 8, 2014

PrincessAngel said:
View attachment 67812

As long as food is involved they seem fine. Squiggles is on the left and Penelope is on the right. Maybe they will learn to associate each other's presence with good things! (I know it doesn't really work that way, but one can dream right?)

You can totally use rewards for proper behavior, it's done in dog training all the time!

PrincessAngel · Aug 17, 2014

So today I decided to do intros again. (Still in progress). I took apart my cage, washed all the grids. Wiped down the stand and the walls. AND I went out and bought new coroplast for the cage. Basically I eliminated ANY scent of guinea pig from their cage. I also gave them a buddy bath which went okay.

Currently they have been together, in neutral territory for going on 6 hours, still not getting along great or settling down but no blood drawn. They had a nice big pile of hay and I've been throwing in veggies every few hours (mostly when I need to go do something) and as long as they are eating they are fine.

I actually discovered that Penelope (the one having issues bonding) might have a legit reason. She does not at all like when Squiggles humps her, she shrieks with pain. I tested this just using my own hands, still pain, and there's no wounds or obvious signs. I went ahead and gave her a dose of meloxicam (I have it on hand for my eldest pig). So now we wait and see if that helps her settle down. Penelope and Charlie-Muffin are in a corner cuddling/sleeping and Squiggles is laying as close to me as possible sleeping. I haven't even had a chance to put the cage back together nor finish cutting the coroplast to the right length. I'm REALLY hoping the meloxicam does the trick otherwise I'm not sure this grouping will ever work. Squiggles will just have to be a momma's girl for a while.

pigger123 · Aug 17, 2014

I'm glad it's going reasonably well so far! Is there a possibility that she might have mites? Just throwing that out there since I know mites cause discomfort when you touch them.

PrincessAngel · Aug 17, 2014

Update: It's been an hour since I have given Penelope painkillers. She was still making some angry noises when Squiggles got close but as of right now they are all peacefully sleeping near each other. They've actually been super quiet this past hour and a half. I think I'm going to get someone to babysit them while I quickly set up their cage. I'm exhausted and hopefully they are too. I'm hoping for the best tonight.

7-8 hours in neutral territory is good enough right? As long as they don't fight in the cage we'll be good. The neutral territory and cage are about the same size (2x5). Actually the cage might be bigger. Last time putting them in the cage was the problem, but hopefully I've solved that issue by building a new cage.

PrincessAngel · Aug 17, 2014

pigger123 said:
I'm glad it's going reasonably well so far! Is there a possibility that she might have mites? Just throwing that out there since I know mites cause discomfort when you touch them.

I thought of that too but she doesn't have any signs of mites, no hairloss, scratching etc. Just uncomfortable around her hips/genital area. I may just go ahead and give them all a dose of Ivermec anyway. No one else has discomfort just Penelope.

pigger123 · Aug 17, 2014

Hm. Maybe she just doesn't like being touched there? My pigs hate being touched on their "lower half," but they don't really seem to be in pain, just annoyed. Fingers crossed they get along in the cage!

PrincessAngel · Aug 17, 2014

pigger123 said:
Hm. Maybe she just doesn't like being touched there? My pigs hate being touched on their "lower half," but they don't really seem to be in pain, just annoyed. Fingers crossed they get along in the cage!

Well it would be unfortunate if she doesn't like that area touched because it's where she will continue to be humped! They're in the cage. No blood so far. I have food everywhere, many hideys with multiple holes.

Penelope and Squiggles are still sorting things out. Squiggles has learned to run away quickly after humping Penelope so she doesn't get bit or nipped.

PrincessAngel · Aug 18, 2014

They have been together for 24 hours now.... NO BLOOD!! Penelope and Squiggles are still arguing but not as bad as before. I think making a new cage helped a lot. It's been a long time since I've had a guinea pig that does dominance things. I can't remember how long it takes to settle down. So far my bonded girls have just been ignoring Squiggles unless Squiggles is mounting them. I think it will work out!

pigger123 · Aug 18, 2014

Yay! It will probably take them awhile to get used to the new cage and the new pig, but once they settle down hopefully they'll get along!

PrincessAngel · Aug 18, 2014

pigger123 said:
Yay! It will probably take them awhile to get used to the new cage and the new pig, but once they settle down hopefully they'll get along!

Yes hopefully they will! They don't have to cuddle but they have to tolerate each other!

PrincessAngel · Aug 18, 2014

For your viewing pleasure I took some pictures yesterday as well.

The last picture, left to right is Squiggles(2), Charlie-Muffin(7), and Penelope (5)

pigger123 · Aug 18, 2014

Gorgeous piggies! Squiggles is so precious. Is she an Abyruvian? She looks fluffier than a regular Abyssinian.

PrincessAngel · Aug 18, 2014

pigger123 said:
Gorgeous piggies! Squiggles is so precious. Is she an Abyruvian? She looks fluffier than a regular Abyssinian.

To be honest I have no clue. I adopted her from a friend. If I had to guess, I'd say she was. She's not "fluffy" but does have long hairs! Her hair is super thin. Penelope is an Abby and her hair is sooo soft and thick.

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Aggression Intros went fine but Not getting along in cage

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