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Neutering/Spaying Poll: to neuter or add a male cage mate?

Mknight622

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I have a male guinea pig, Boy Pig, who I saved from a pet store and I'm debating on having him neutered. I already had two females at the time I brought him home (only one now- rest in peace Biggum♥) and had intended on having him neutered. However, despite my best efforts to prevent pregnancy yet still allow them supervised play time together, my female Small Small ended up pregnant. I can not stress enough that I did NOT want this to happen and I really did my best to prevent it, so please do not think that I am a careless pet owner.

Long story short, Small Small had 4 babies- 3 girls and 1 boy who are 2 weeks old now and I'm rethinking having Boy Pig neutered. We have talked about keeping the baby boy, Olaf, and trying to introduce him to Boy Pig instead of risking surgery but aren't sure how that will go, as Boy Pig wasn't too kind to Olaf when we introduced them during his floor time today. Plus I'm not sure I'm ready for two 2x5 cages in my living room! Lol just kidding!

I guess my question is: how dangerous is it for them and how rough will the recovery be? The opinion of anyone with experience in this matter would be greatly appreciated! I hate that he doesn't have a cage mate and have finally found a reputable vet who has done tons of successful surgeries on guinea pigs. I have the $300 to spend on the surgery, meds, etc., along with the time to give him special care during his recovery, so those issues are not going to be factors in my decision. Thanks in advance!
 
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guineapigcraz27

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I would try to introduce Boy Pig and Olaf. This way you wouldn't have to find a new home for Olaf and you won't have to worry about neutering. And since you already have female companions for Small Small you don't have find her a new friend. If you do choose to introduce them make sure they are in a neutral area they haven't been to yet. When introduce guinea pigs they have to decide who will dominate which will include some bickering mounting chasing ect. as long as there is not blood shed they don't have to be separated.
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

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You shouldn't be putting them together for floor time. It's stressful for guinea pigs to be put together for floor time if they don't already live together. You do an introduction once and that should be the end of it. Fighting is normal, because it's the way they establish dominance. If you have been putting the male and female together and then now putting the babies in there (at least the boy) you're throwing off their establishment of dominance and causing stress. In my opinion, surgery is a last option and you have another option and that is to properly introduction the father and son and see where it goes from there.

Please don't allow the males and females play time together, as you already know it's impossible to keep them from getting pregnant because it happens so quickly. It's never recommended to allow them to be together.
 

Mknight622

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@guineapigcraz27 my thoughts exactly. The one thing that makes me hesitant though is that I already promised him to my brother and his family and my youngest niece is so excited. Ugh I was dreading this day!

@ClemmyOddieIndy I should've been more clear in my post, they are not together for floor time. When Boy Pig is out, Small Small and her babies are in their cage; when Mama and babies are out, Boy Pig is in his cage. They are neighbors separated by grids (and now by clear plastic too because we baby-proofed) but they are never, EVER together. After what happened before, I won't be taking any chances and risking another pregnancy.

What I meant when I said I introduced Boy Pig and Olaf during floor time, was that when Boy Pig was out I decided to get Olaf out to introduce them on neutral territory (aka blanket on floor). It didn't go as I thought it would. Boy Pig wasn't very kind to Olaf, he was trying to trample over him, grinding his teeth and Olaf was squealing and trying to get back to the cage to Mama, who was pacing and wheeking so I put him back in. I know there will be bickering when introducing two pigs, especially boars, but I couldn't let them go at it because Olaf is too small to defend himself against the monstrous Boy Pig. I know he is too young to leave Mama yet, but everything I've read says to separate males from their mother at 3-4 weeks and they're two and a half weeks now.

Maybe Olaf is still too young, but my thought was that I would introduce them before Olaf reached "puberty" so that there would be less bickering to establish dominance. I thought that Boy Pig wouldn't feel challenged by a baby who hadn't reached sexual maturity, therefore making the (possible) transition easier on both of them. I hoped that by the time Olaf matured, they would have already established rank and there would be less chance of any arguments. I don't know. Aside from all of the risks to the mother, this is a darn good reason why no one should intentionality breed their guinea pigs, it's hard on everyone involved.

We planned on getting him neutered when I saved him from the hell he was living in, I wish I would've done it right then instead of waiting, but I was having a hard time finding a reputable vet in my area who had done more than one successful guinea pig surgery in their career. Plus I wanted to make sure he was going to get along with my girls, which is why they were having supervised floor time together. It was neutral ground plus they could socialize. My intentions were good, but it came back to bite me and now I'm in a position I didn't want to be in.
 
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Mknight622

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Does anyone have any experience with having a male neutered? I know there are always risks when anyone has surgery, but can anyone tell me what their experience was like for them and their guinea pig?
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

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The introduction sounds normal to me. We tend to get really worked up and anxious about behavior that is normal. As long as they're not having a drag out flying ball of screaming fur, and there is no blood you should just let it happen. There are other techniques too, like the buddy bath that you might consider using to try to introduce them. I tend to be very wary of surgery. I grew up on a horse farm and experienced dozens of castrations without problem, so I know it's an extremely safe procedure. But, after losing a horse who had her tooth pulled, I became very paranoid about unnecessary surgeries because even the most routine simple procedure can result in death with even the most experienced and well respected vet.
 

Mknight622

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I'm sorry to hear about losing your horse, that's such a hard thing to go through. I agree about avoiding surgery if possible, that's why I was asking for advice :/ I'm not familiar with a buddy bath, would you mind filling me in? And you don't think that Olaf is too young to defend himself during the "establishing dominance" dance they do? He's only two and a half weeks old and Boy Pig is about 8 months old, so he's a giant compared to Olaf! He still seems so fragile to me! Lol
 

Mknight622

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It just seemed like Boy Pig was going to seriously hurt Olaf when I introduced them. Olaf was clearly under stress, as was Mama. She was pacing back and forth in her cage when Olaf was crying so I figured I should put him back. I have zero experience with baby pigs, so it's a day-to-day learning experience for me. So are boars, we've always had females. I know, I probably shouldn't have brought Boy Pig home, but I couldn't leave him in the condition he was in. Such a sweet, sweet boy who cuddled up with me the first time I picked him up when he was living in the pet store. He stole my heart.
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

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Have you read this link?

https://www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm

This will walk you through everything you need to know. It also has information on what is normal in introductions and was is a warning sign.

I'm not saying it will for sure work out, I'm just saying it sounded normal based on what you describe.

Also, the fact that both dad and son are near mom likely will cause some stress. Can you place them in another room for intros, and place their cage in another room?

ETA: Have you considered sending both boys to live with your brother? That way the baby is not alone.
 

Mknight622

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I'm not sure if I have or not, but I will read it now. The only reason I stopped the intro was because Olaf is still so tiny, I was afraid he would be injured by Boy Pig trampling over him.
 

Mknight622

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I have thought about it, but my son and husband are so in love with Boy Pig, I don't think they would consider it. I hate to admit that we have our "favorites," but for lack of a better term, we do. I have been especially fond of Small Small from the day we got her and my hubby and son are especially fond of Boy Pig. I think it's because he's so big so he's easier for them to handle, and because he's always content to sit in a lap and cuddle.
 

Mknight622

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So, after reading the link you shared with me, I decided to try another introduction. It's quiet here tonight since my son is in bed and my hubby is still working, so I turned off the TV, put down a clean blanket, grabbed a towel and went to work. There was a lot of "rumblestrutting" and rear end sniffing, but it went much more smoothly this time. Olaf did try and search for his nursing spot on Boy Pig, but he put an end to that right away! Boy Pig did get a bit aggressive at times, but nothing severe. He kept putting his nose under Olaf, lifting him up and then letting him fall over, but I didn't intervene since we were on my bed and he wasn't hurting him. Olaf kept running to me and trying to burrow under my legs and climb into my lap, but Boy Pig just followed closely behind. I let them "talk" for about 30-40 minutes and then put them back in their cages. All in all I think it went well and will be doing it again tomorrow while my son is in school, let's hope things go like this again! I'll post a picture, hang on, it's so cute...
 

Mknight622

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And my favorite:


If things go well during their transition, we'll probably be keeping him. If my hubby had his way we would keep all of them, plus adopt every guinea pig in town! Lol
We do love our piggies!
 

lissie

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Please don't keep introducing them then separate. They have to work through the dominance issue every time you put them together. If you do decide to keep him, just do the intro once, then move them into a clean cage (wipe everything down with vinegar to remove the scent).
 

AmberCalzone

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Ditto lissie.
You only need to introduce once, and then once introduced put them in the cage together. If you introduce and then separate, and then reintroduce again, etc.. it just stresses everyone, tensions are raised, and it makes it less likely that the introduction will be successful. Don't do an introduction again until Olaf is ready to leave mom (which is at 3 weeks or 21 days. Don't keep him in with her for 4 weeks, because he can impregnate her after 21 days!), do an introduction between Olaf and Boy Pig, and then leave them be with one another for good :)
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

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I already told you only introduce them once, you are just making it harder on them and stressing them out.
 

foggycreekcavy

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I don't agree with re-homing the baby boy as a single guinea pig. He needs to be with another guinea pig. If your only option is to re-home him as a single then I think you should keep him.

However, somehow one of your guinea pigs ended up pregnant. This makes me think that perhaps it could happen again, even though you don't want it to. This makes me think that it would be better to have the adult male neutered and the baby re-homed.

Alternatively, while neutering is usually an easy operation if done by an experienced exotics veterinarian, there are often complications afterwards. Namely abscessing at the neuter site.

I agree with the others. Stop trying to put the baby with his dad until you are ready to wean him permanently from his mom.
 

Mknight622

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Thank you, everyone, for your honest opinions about the situation. I think the intro went well last night, but from what I read online re: introducing guinea pigs, it is ok (and sometimes necessary) to do it slowly.

@ClemmyOddieIndy it says that on the link you gave me last night, too. I guess I didn't realize that it would stress them out since they're not exactly strangers and can see/smell each other because they are only separated by grids. The main reason for this post was for input from others who have been through a neutering with their pig.

@foggycreekcavy yes, one of my females did end up pregnant, but there is absolutely NO way it could happen again. Was it my fault? Yes. But it wasn't because I was careless. Boy Pig lived next to my girls and I would let him out on the floor sometimes to "socialize" and get to know them, but only when I was able to keep a watchful eye on them. I honestly thought I could prevent a pregnancy as long as I supervised the interacting. Believe me, had I known this was going to happen they would have NEVER been together at all. Ever. As much as I love the babies, I never wanted to have any, for this reason and many other reasons!

I've said this before, I know was probably a bad idea to even bring Boy Pig home since I already had two girls, but I just wanted to save him from the way he was living. So please be kind in your suggestions, I'm only trying to research all options so I can make an educated decision that will be best for everyone involved. I don't want to come across as a careless pet owner who, selfishly, wants to do whatever will be most convenient for me, because that is not the case at all. I have made mistakes with my little loves, there is no doubt about that, but it is never intentional and I always try my best to do the right thing for them. I joined this forum because I wanted to be able to ask for help when I felt overwhelmed and needed advice from more experienced guinea pig owners, that's why I'm asking now.

As for rehoming baby Olaf as a single, it wasn't my first choice, but I know he will/would have been going to a great home, that is the only reason I was even considering it. My philosophy is: since it is because of my judgement that we even have babies, it is my responsibility to care for them. I didn't want to rehome any of them, but I was nervous about having two boars together after reading some horror stories of fighting.

Since I know Boy Pig and Small Small get along, I was naturally leaning toward my original intention of having him neutered and letting him live with Small Small and her 3 female babies. After thinking it over, I considered Olaf living with him instead and came to you for help. Sorry this response us so long, I just don't want anyone to get the wrong idea of my intentions.
 
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AmberCalzone

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I don't think your intentions are in the wrong place at all.

I've never heard of doing guinea pig introductions slowly though. 'Slow' as in, it will take multiple hours and you should have an entire day open to focus on the introduction, yes. But not slow as in, "introduce, let them play, separate, and repeat". Is that maybe where the confusion was?

When you introduce pigs, it should be a one time affair. It does take multiple hours of supervising though, which is why the word 'slow' may have been used. It is a slow process, but it is a process that is only done once.

You want the pigs to meet on neutral territory. You want a big enough space where the pigs can get away from one another if needed. Having vegetables on hand may help. You have to watch them in this neutral territory, if they're getting along well (anything other than ball of fur/blood is well, even if it looks scary just let it be to work it out amongst themselves!) after a few hours in the neutral territory, move them to their cage together.

You want to make sure the cage is completely de-scented of either pig. That means taking absolutely everything out of the cage so that you can scrub the coroplast. Put fresh bedding in. Anything that can be thrown in the washer needs to be washed (beds, cuddle cups, snuggle sacs, soft toys, fleece tunnels, etc). Clean the water bottles, the food bowls, the hay racks. Soak any hard toys (my girls, for example, had a little plastic cat ball that they liked to push around with their noses). Simply remove anything wooden because that's harder to wash, anything wooden can be reintroduced to the cage once the pair is living together nicely in a few days-weeks.

But once you introduce, never separate unless actual violence breaks out (to repeat: ball of rolling fur, or blood is drawn). It is a slow process, but it isn't one that is done more than once :)
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

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Well, to be fair... your title is to neuter or to add a male cage mate :). I know you are looking for neutering stories, and there are people on here who have. But, I think the vast majority of people do not because most people can find an alternative. Yes, it is a relatively safe surgery and in the hands of a competent vet it should be a quick no hassle deal with a quick recovery (with a healthy pig). I've never had a pig neutered, but I have gone through spay surgery with a pig and it's nerve wrecking (her surgery was for medical reasons). I've had many animals go through surgery (including a lot of horses and dogs castrated), but there is something about a guinea pig that just makes it scarier (in my experience). Even when they just sedated Odette and there was no surgery I was scared. Like I already said, I had a health 4 year old mare drop dead from a blood clot after having a tooth pulled (who would've expected that!?), anything can happen in the most routine situations. Since it seems like you have a viable alternative I think you are premature in discussing neutering.
 
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