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Introductions I put a divider in their cage--was it the right call?

sbuxaddict

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Hi everyone,

My two boars, Pepper and Paprika, are about the same age. We re-introduced them successfully this past weekend (following the livejournal guide) and they both seemed to get along okay in the new, larger cage. There were small fights here and there, but no one launched themselves at the other. I figured Paprika was the dominant one, although occasionally Pepper would chatter back.

Today, I noticed Paprika wouldn't stop chasing Pepper around the cage and at one point, it escalated into fighting. No blood was drawn, thankfully. After that happened it t seemed like Paprika would just come over and eat whatever Pepper was eating even though it was the same exact thing! There are 2 of everything in the cage: water bottles, tunnel to hide/sleep in, food bowls. This has been going on for a few hours and I thought it was because they were hungry, but it happened even when I gave them more food.

I ended up taking the top of old cage and putting it in the center of the current one. They can still see and smell each other but I thought it would be good for them to settle down and relax a little bit, especially poor Pepper. I plan on removing it after a few hours. Right now they're both happily eating eating hay, and have settled down in their individual tunnels.

Did I do the right thing? My bf thinks I should have just let them duke it out, but I was worried that it kept going for a few hours!

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
 

pinky

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Once you separate them, you have to start from scratch if you want to do an introduction again. How large is your cage? The problem might be that the space is too small for two males. As long as blood isn't drawn, you should let them work things out between themselves.
 

sbuxaddict

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Once you separate them, you have to start from scratch if you want to do an introduction again. How large is your cage? The problem might be that the space is too small for two males. As long as blood isn't drawn, you should let them work things out between themselves.

Thank you for your help!

We have a 2x4, I'm not sure if my apartment can handle something bigger unfortunately.
Is doing the introduction again necessary if they're both still in the same cage? The divider allows them to still smell and see each other. I only did it so they could get some peace and quiet >.<
 

CavyChrissy

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It doesn't sound too serious, so I vote for leaving them together. I am in day 2 of introductions myself (just did the actual introduction yesterday and put them in the new larger cage last night). This is my second try at introducing my neutered boar to my pair of sows and I've decided I need to just let them work it out unless there is serious injury. Thankfully, this intro is going a lot better than the first one.

One tip I read is that if you feel it's not going particularly smoothly, make the cage as bare as possible so that they don't have anything to fight over. No hidey houses, tunnels, etc. But do put fabric or something across the top of the cage in one area so they have a covered place to rest. Seems to be working for mine so far.
 

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bpatters

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I'd put them back together. And leave them there short of full-out,rolling ball of fur fighting. You're just slowing the adjustment process down.
 

sbuxaddict

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I'd put them back together. And leave them there short of full-out,rolling ball of fur fighting. You're just slowing the adjustment process down.

Will do, thanks! I guess I'm just more anxious than they are :sad:

It doesn't sound too serious, so I vote for leaving them together. I am in day 2 of introductions myself (just did the actual introduction yesterday and put them in the new larger cage last night). This is my second try at introducing my neutered boar to my pair of sows and I've decided I need to just let them work it out unless there is serious injury. Thankfully, this intro is going a lot better than the first one.

One tip I read is that if you feel it's not going particularly smoothly, make the cage as bare as possible so that they don't have anything to fight over. No hidey houses, tunnels, etc. But do put fabric or something across the top of the cage in one area so they have a covered place to rest. Seems to be working for mine so far.

Thanks for the tip! I'll keep that in mind!
 

sbuxaddict

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Update: they just got into a full-blown, whirlwind of a fight that looked like a furball tornado. No blood was drawn although it was a pretty scary sight. Should I still keep them together?
 

bpatters

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If they're not bleeding, leave them together.

Take everything out of the cage except water bottles and pellet dishes. Make sure there are pellets, hay and water at both ends of the cage. Make it as easy as possible for them to eat without getting in each other's way.

But I'm betting the situation won't get significantly better until the cage is enlarged.
 

sbuxaddict

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If they're not bleeding, leave them together.

Take everything out of the cage except water bottles and pellet dishes. Make sure there are pellets, hay and water at both ends of the cage. Make it as easy as possible for them to eat without getting in each other's way.

But I'm betting the situation won't get significantly better until the cage is enlarged.

Thank you for your advice!

----

Last night we expanded their cage a bit by attaching our old petstore cage to the current MW cage. I was hoping to build a C&C one but between the 2 cages we've already spent so much money.
I moved everything to opposite ends of the cage and so far, so good. They are both defending each end of the cage, and when they get tired they retreat back to their respective ends. They don't interact much except to tell the other one to back off, but they are still scared of us and will both hide together lol And no more brawls, except for the occasional rumble strutting.
It wasn't the happy, wheeking, eat-and-snuggle together scenario I pictured, but I think we're all feeling much better! I only hope that they don't dislike each other so much that they get lonely, but my bf says there's no pleasing me...I stress when they fight, I stress when they're quiet :p
 

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Hang in there! It's hard to see them bicker but I agree with everyone, let them get thru it. Depending on where you live, check craigslist for possible grids. One time I found a huge stash for cheap from a lady who used them to store her kids toys. And one set from Bed Bath Beyond is only about $25 I believe. That with coroplast from Lowes or Home Depot is pretty inexpensive. You can sell the cage you have to make up for it. I had a Midwest for two boars and it "worked" but when I went to a 2x4 C&C (and then eventually a 2x5), I was amazed at the size difference and better behavior! Is yours a Midwest or 2x4? They're not the same size. A 2x4 is min for two boars and Midwest is just too small in my opinion. You could sell that Midwest (if that's what you have) and almost pay for the supplies for the 2x4 or 2x5. That's what I ended up doing long ago.
 

sbuxaddict

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Hang in there! It's hard to see them bicker but I agree with everyone, let them get thru it. Depending on where you live, check craigslist for possible grids. One time I found a huge stash for cheap from a lady who used them to store her kids toys. And one set from Bed Bath Beyond is only about $25 I believe. That with coroplast from Lowes or Home Depot is pretty inexpensive. You can sell the cage you have to make up for it. I had a Midwest for two boars and it "worked" but when I went to a 2x4 C&C (and then eventually a 2x5), I was amazed at the size difference and better behavior! Is yours a Midwest or 2x4? They're not the same size. A 2x4 is min for two boars and Midwest is just too small in my opinion. You could sell that Midwest (if that's what you have) and almost pay for the supplies for the 2x4 or 2x5. That's what I ended up doing long ago.

Thank you for the support :)

We currently have a Midwest attached to the pet store cage, so it's expanded length wise. I would like a 2x5 but that won't be happening until I can move out of this apartment. Where/how did you sell the midwest? That's a good idea!
 

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Wasn't sure if I should have a new post or continue this one, since it's still about my boys!

We now have 2 Midwest cages attached to each other. Unfortunately, I saw what I thought was blood in the cage and the vet told me to separate them so we could accurately identify whose it was. The boys' relationship wasn't the best but they were fighting significantly less compared to before we expanded. We put a divider between them so they could still see and hear each other. They were separated up until this morning when the vet called and said he the urinalysis was clear.

But today when I cleaned their cage and put them back together, they immediately fought. Whirling, rolling balls of fur. Thankfully no one was injured. Looking back, that was a mistake but I thought it might be okay since it was still the same cage.

What should I do now? Do I attempt to re-introduce, or keep them separated until post adolescence? Their fighting seems like they don't like each other much and neither will back down. The vet really scared them I think, they run away from me now and won't even really come out for food.

Advice on how to proceed would be appreciated!
 

PeanutnCookie

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After the vet told you you could put them back together did you re-do introductions or did you just put them in the cage again? They needed to have introductions done again after the vet.
 

bpatters

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Don't separate and then put back together. You're just inviting them to fight. Either separate them, or properly introduce them and let them alone.

And don't separate because you "see what you thought was blood." If there's not enough blood to be sure, there's not enough to separate.
 

sbuxaddict

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After the vet told you you could put them back together did you re-do introductions or did you just put them in the cage again? They needed to have introductions done again after the vet.

I didn't, partly because I didn't think know they needed it and partly because I didn't have the time. I won't be able to do it properly with enough time until Monday. How should I keep them until then?
Don't separate and then put back together. You're just inviting them to fight. Either separate them, or properly introduce them and let them alone.

And don't separate because you "see what you thought was blood." If there's not enough blood to be sure, there's not enough to separate.

I think I wasn't clear, I separated because we were trying to identify whose blood it was in the urine per the recommendation of the vet, not because of a fight.

Can I still keep them in the same cage with a divider for now, or completely separate? I don't want to just half-heartedly do it and I won't have the time until Monday.
 

bpatters

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Leave them separate until you have hours to do an introduction. Don't rush it. The last one I did took 11 hours.
 

sbuxaddict

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Leave them separate until you have hours to do an introduction. Don't rush it. The last one I did took 11 hours.

Okay. Thank you! Just to be clear--completely separate without seeing each other? Or is side by side acceptable?
 

bpatters

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Side by side is fine. Just keep them apart until you've got plenty of time to reintroduce them.
 

blessedmom

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Thank you for the support :)

We currently have a Midwest attached to the pet store cage, so it's expanded length wise. I would like a 2x5 but that won't be happening until I can move out of this apartment. Where/how did you sell the midwest? That's a good idea!

I sold my Midwest on Craigslist and got $40 for it! That almost reimbursed my out of pocket for supplies to make my C&C back then.
 

blessedmom

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I sure hope re-introduction goes well! I imagine you are quite stressed. I've never done re-introductions but when I did introductions I didn't do the buddy bath thing but I did follow the rest of the guidelines exactly and it went well. I'm wondering if a buddy bath is good or bad in your case. I would think starting out with as little smells as possible would be good. Two clean pigs, a clean neutral space and a super clean cage. Just my thoughts.
 
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