Where People & Piggies Thrive

Newbie or Guinea Guru? Popcorn in!

Register for free to enjoy the full benefits.
Find out more about the NEW, drastically improved site and forum!

Register

Is this a joke?! The most ridiculous "cage" I've seen in my life!

Ly&Pigs

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Posts
20,516
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
20,516
That thing is anything but a cage. An animal cage by definition is an enclosure made or wire or metal bars in which birds or animals can be kept or A cage is an enclosure made of mesh, bars or wires, used to confine, contain or protect something or someone.

That thing is a contraption that is potentially very dangerous.

.Munchkin. said:
I know that you can't post a link, but would anyone be able to post instructions on where one can find the link to their website and the comments comparing their contraption to a C & C cage (is that on their site)?
I really don't see the need to post instructions on how to get to their site. Posting instructions on how to find the site is almost the same as posting a direct link. There are already comments pulled from that site that compares it to a C&C I believe.
 

1frankie7

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Posts
1,545
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
1,545
Not only is it ridiculously dangerous, but they also had this to say:

"We recommend Kaytee Brand Timothy Hay. Of the brands we’ve tried this seems to be the highest quality and is conveniently cut."

Apparently they haven't tried any other brand as I've never seen a worse brand of hay.

I have never tried kaytee, but I think hartz may be even worse! I had it and it smelled like barn,and was BROWN! EEEEW!
 

alicia09

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Posts
45
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
45
They call that a cage?! You said it was ridiculous but I wasn't expecting that! I'm glad people haven't bought it but they might think it's a good idea and make a simular cage (if it can even be called a cage!) out of metal themselves. I wish I could do more to help but I can't join ebay. Thanks to everyone who is helping get this cage taken off :)
 

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
As I don't see much value in simply discussing a product we know to be unsafe and outright bogus, I sent the following message to the seller:
Hi, I'm a moderator on a forum where your auction/"cage" is being hotly discussed and the reason for that is that it is a tremendous safety hazard on many levels. There are no sides, which makes for a highly problematic issue if the already clumsy guinea pig is to walk to the side and take a tumble off. There is also the fact that the surface doesn't provide easy navigation for a guinea pig, and I'm sorry, but the suggestion to merely pick up a guinea pig and put it back onto the - what? - after he falls is irresponsible. These are delicate creatures that should be treated as such. I strongly urge you to make some serious modifications to your product that will provide at least the bare minimum in safety standards.If owning a guinea pig or pigs is such a hassle that people can't be bothered to house or clean up after them in a way that doesn't hold the potential for serious harm, they shouldn't have them. Therefore, your item, as it is, is completely useless.
I know others have messaged too, so perhaps something will persuade the seller to reconsider the product s/he's selling. I'll keep everyone updated on any replies I may be blessed with from this person. :)
 

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
Folks, I've received a response from the seller and am posting it with permission:

Hello- We appreciate your concern and acknowledge that the design is extreme. In the case of the lack of walls, please understand that the acceleration due to gravity is independent of size (be it a human, dog, guinea pig or ant). Therefore the approximate speed of a GP “falling” out of the cage would be less than the walking speed of a human being. Further the height is easily adjustable to eight inches if that is a concern. That being said, based on the perception, we are interested in adding walls to the design.
Feet Getting Caught: This is not the cruel situation we’ve seen with mesh bottom cages and it is unfair to compare it as such. These are small strategically places holes that are very difficult to actually step on for a GP. The reason being is that the housing design corrals the GPs to walk in such a way that their feet avoid the middle of the tube.
Other Pet Issue: We only recommend this for a GP only household- no Dogs or Cats.
Variability in Texture: We recommend include a soft box, be it hay or traditional bedding, which gives the GP a soft option if that is what they are in the mood for. You might be suprised by what they choose.
The inventor takes seriously your opinion and highly respects and values the opinion of your site. The inventor is a sincere GP lover and been so for over 25 years. While the product functions properly, your feedback to improve it would be EXTREMELY valuable. He would like to make the following compromise:
1) Per your forums advice: Temporary Suspension of all product sales
2) Further testing by experts from your site
3) Changes to make it appear and be safer
Yeah, they hardly sound like "monsters" that should be arrested for animal abuse ... Just people that are ill-informed but genuinely want to make a product that's usable and something that can genuinely be deemed a good product for guinea pigs. Remember - at one point in time - we ALL were doing things for our pigs that would likely make us cringe now. So perhaps instead of flying off the handle and trying to destroy someone, it might be a better course of action, in the future, to at least first attempt to initiate a conversation with them.
 
leyley904
  • Post hidden due to user being banned.

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
Paula, many have emailed him, and got no response, including me.
I find this somewhat curious, given the speed with which I received a response - less than two hours. Perhaps it was something about the tone. I've said before that condescending to people when you're providing wholly unsolicited information is never a good approach, and this is true in this case as well.

Whether or not lack of knowledge is an excuse, I don't know - but I think it speaks volumes that this person/persons is/are willing to make changes as requested/required by members of this forum and others "in the know" in the guinea pig world.

Yes, it's common sense to you and to me to include walls in a cage. I never said there weren't catastrophic flaws with the design as it is - clearly, there are. But I do think it's highly unfair to deem someone a monster and accuse them of animal abuse based on a single ad without talking to them FIRST or providing them means to explain/defend themselves.

This is not a person who said, 'hey, yeah, I know it's dangerous, I don't care.' This is a person who acknowledges problems - sometimes tremendous ones - with their cage design and is willing to make changes.

And my guess is that if they're willing to listen to suggestions on this, it's probably likely that they'll be receptive to other suggestions as well, such as better food/hay/etc.

I don't doubt for a second that the impetus behind their willingness to change this product is motivation to sell more - but I don't see the harm in that, as long as the end product is one that's safe and generally acceptable for guinea pigs.
 

SheriMartini

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Posts
178
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
178
Here is my concern with their response... If they are that concerned with the safety of guinea pigs, that willing to listen to our concerns and feedback, and that willing to suspend the sale of the product, how can they NOT have initially realized how dangerous this contraption really is?
 

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
Perhaps for the same reason that people that buy and use exercise products that aren't safe (leashes/harnesses/exercise balls/etc). Perhaps for the same reason that many of us thought that pet store cages were perfectly fine at one point or another.

I'm not saying it's not one of the all time worst ideas I've ever heard/seen - I'm saying that a person being ill-informed and inclined to share and sell a bad product(s) with others doesn't a monster make.

There's a tremendous difference between being uneducated/stupid/call it what you want and malicious and abusive. Trust me on this.
 

SheriMartini

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Posts
178
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
178
Very true, Paula. And I never for a moment thought that these were inherently evil individuals looking to maim poor little guineas just for fun. But if you are that willing to suspend your product because it is THAT dangerous (after they obviously put a lot of time an energy into this product), how could you in good conscious sell it to begin with? They must have realized that it was dangerous to begin with. They wouldn't have put the disclaimer that they were not liable for any injuries if they didn't anticipate that injuries were possible.

I do believe that they are guinea pig lovers, as they wouldn't devote such resources if they weren't. And this product may work extremely well for them personally! But it concerns me that they were willing to distribute something that could be so catastrophic. They have a cute web site, and it seems like a great idea if you don't know any better. Ultimately, I suppose that is what concerns me so much. Anyone who didn't know any better may have thought it was a good product.

*Edit*
I took a moment to check out the store here, and there is also a disclaimer. I suppose that is just to protect them. And I get that. Maybe I'm a little cynical today because I had a bad day at work! :p
 
Last edited:

piggy love

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Posts
197
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
197
My chihuahua can jump that high! what would make them tink any other dog cant?!
 

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
But if you are that willing to suspend your product because it is THAT dangerous (after they obviously put a lot of time an energy into this product), how could you in good conscious sell it to begin with?
They aren't offering to suspend it because THEY feel it's THAT dangerous. They're offering to do so because it's obvious that others feel it is. I haven't ever had the impression that they made a product that they felt was dangerous and opted to sell it anyway.
 

Silverbeat

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Posts
846
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
846
Paula, many have emailed him, and got no response, including me. In my opinion, being uneducated is no excuse. He said on his site 'Many years of research has shown that guinea pigs will not jump off', or something along those lines. He claims he is educated. And if your not educated, don't make a 'cage' like he is doing! So, I think, it was plenty excusable to 'fly off the handle', considering the utter stupidness of this 'cage' and the fact that they DID NOT respond to our emails.

Also, its common sense to know that a cage needs walls. Or at least I think so.

A. I suspect that the reason Paula got such a speedy response was because her email stood out in a crowd. It was polite and tactful. She was not coming out of left field waging war on this person. Put yourself in their shoes. Who would you rather talk to? A hundred people coming out of nowhere to bite your head off.. or one person looking to negotiate and have this work out better for the both of you?

B. What about breeding cages for guinea pigs? [The ones with wire-floors that are about 2 cu. ft.] What about the other dozens of woefully inadequate cages marketed for guinea pigs that have sold ten times more cages than this ONE person has sold? This 'cage' is dangerous, yes, but no more so than exercise wheels and balls and harnesses and birdseed treats made for guinea pigs.

C. I remember a time when I was moving my guinea pigs to another living area and I honestly didn't know that they *needed* walls on their cages. I lay even have posted here asking about it. I have held conversations with people asking me that same question. Common sense to you? Maybe. But certainly not to everyone.
 

.Munchkin.

Active Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Posts
29
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
29
My attitude towards these people still does not change. And until I see that "thing" gone or it's construction drastically changed, I will still feel that way.
 
leyley904
  • Post hidden due to user being banned.

.Munchkin.

Active Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Posts
29
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
29
What adds to my opinion is the price. Apparently $149.95 is the sale price, the original price is $299. These people are obviusly out to make a MASSIVE profit from uneducated first-time cavy owners who don't know better.
 

Silverbeat

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Posts
846
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
846
What adds to my opinion is the price. Apparently $149.95 is the sale price, the original price is $299. These people are obviusly out to make a MASSIVE profit from uneducated first-time cavy owners who don't know better.

You don't know that. Cost of materials plus time spent making it.. and the things that come with it.. probably adds up to around $150-200+

You're implying that this guy is some maniacal mastermind trying to make money off of poor unknowing guinea pig owners. And that is clearly not the case.
 

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
Agreed, you don't know that, and to imply that they have malicious intent to sell something like this to "uneducated first-time cavy owners who don't know better" is ridiculous, and frankly, I think only being done to continue flaming an argument that should have been buried quite a while ago.

Furthermore, to imply that it's inherently wrong for a business to attempt to make a profit is highly asinine.
 

.Munchkin.

Active Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Posts
29
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
29
Agreed, you don't know that, and to imply that they have malicious intent to sell something like this to "uneducated first-time cavy owners who don't know better" is ridiculous, and frankly, I think only being done to continue flaming an argument that should have been buried quite a while ago.

Furthermore, to imply that it's inherently wrong for a business to attempt to make a profit is highly asinine.

This was never an argument. I posted this thread to express my opinion on a "guinea pig home" that was was being sold. That said, I'm not trying to "continue flaming an argument that should have been buried quite a while ago." It seems like you're the one doing that.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I never said it is wrong for a business to make a profit. I said that I reckon these people are out to make a massive profit (never implying that that's a bad thing). It's just simply what one assumes when they see a sheet of metal with a hole in it, a wooden box and some PVC piping selling for 300 bucks.
 

Paula

Pigaholic Extraordinaire
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Posts
6,024
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
6,024
This was never an argument. I posted this thread to express my opinion on a "guinea pig home" that was was being sold.
What, exactly, had you expected might happen by posting something that's "the most ridiculous 'cage' you'd ever seen" ... Complete with an exact product name to go searching for on eBay? A friendly discussion? Suggestions to help the seller make the product more suitable? Doubtful, especially once people start deeming them monsters that should be "arrested" for animal abuse.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I never said it is wrong for a business to make a profit. I said that I reckon these people are out to make a massive profit (never implying that that's a bad thing). It's just simply what one assumes when they see a sheet of metal with a hole in it, a wooden box and some PVC piping selling for 300 bucks.
But you don't know that it would be a "massive" profit because you haven't any idea how much any of the materials actually cost in the first place. It appears to be a cheaply made piece of crap, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is, and what's worse is that you're not only saying they're out to make a "massive" profit but that they're looking to do so knowing full well the dangers their product poses and at the expense of first time cavy owners that don't know any better. That's just unfair, I'm sorry, especially since they aren't here to defend themselves or make any explanations for their reasons.

And as a little aside here, that they say it's on "sale" doesn't necessarily mean that it is. It's a common marketing ploy to mark something on "sale" to make consumers think they're getting a better deal and encourage folks to buy sooner rather than later.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.

Similar threads

maple&teddi21
Replies
4
Views
1K
maple&teddi21
maple&teddi21
S
Replies
1
Views
419
ItsaZoo
ItsaZoo
N
Replies
1
Views
755
bpatters
bpatters
P
Replies
6
Views
706
janarbeth
janarbeth
Top