Aggression Introduction failed. Surrendering pig. Next steps?

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 26, 2014

I know this is a long post but I really need advice during this time so any would be very appreciated. Thank you.

Yesterday I introduced my new pig, Thor, to my older pig, Boo Boo. I introduced them on neutral ground (the kitchen) with plenty of hay and their favorite veggies. At first it seemed like they would get along but Thor quickly decided he was the dominant one and was chasing and mounting Boo Boo almost constantly (which I know is normal). However, he kept doing it for seven hours straight. Barely letting Boo Boo eat or lay down. Feeling really defeated my boyfriend and I had read on a website called Cavy Spirit that sometimes bathing pigs who are difficult in bonding makes them bond better. So we bathed them and for a while it seemed to actually work so after we dried the pigs off (as best we could, they hate the hair dryer!) We put together the new 2x5 cage with all new hideys, food dishes, hay bags, fleece (the works), and as soon as we got the two of them in their and the shock of a new cage drifted away, Thor was chasing and mounting Boo Boo again, even cornering him (I even got hideys with two exits so that wouldn't happen but Thor still managed to corner him). Boo Boo was chattering his teeth constantly and wouldn't eat much or drink and I could just tell how miserable he was. After about an hour and a half of watching this we decided it was best to remove Thor from the cage because at this point he was bullying Boo Boo. Boo Boo seems fine now, eating and drinking and putting around like normal.

I feel so defeated and disappointed. I know every pair is not going to get along and I know I tried. But I had to remove Thor with the best interest of Boo Boo in mind. I have read in multiple sites that introductions should only be done once. I think I owe it to Boo Boo to look for another pig to adopt and try at least one more time. Should I try again? Or maybe Boo Boo likes living alone? He's been alone for almost his whole life except for the early pet store days so I almost feel like he doesn't know any different. I know pigs are social and should have cage mates but I also know sometimes there are exceptions and maybe Boo Boo is one of them. I just feel bad that now Boo Boo is in a 2x5 cage all by himself.

Boo Boo is almost 4 and has a very laid back personality. Does anyone have any suggestions of age/personality that would work with him? Thor was very energetic and only 10 months old and they didn't work so I won't try that again.

If I do try one more time. Is it okay to use the same fleece, food dish, water bottle, etc. that Thor used if we scrub and wash them very well? I want to try one more time but I spent hundreds of dollars on getting all the new stuff for both pigs, if I did it again I would be completely broke and I try to keep my savings for a medical emergency for Boo Boo (hopefully I'll never have to use it).

I'm heartbroken to surrender Thor, but I know Boo Boo has to come first.

Guinepig · Oct 26, 2014

Yes you can use the same stuff for introductions again as long as you wash it thoroughly. I hope that it goes well this time!

Rywen · Oct 26, 2014

I'm sorry things didn't work out. Boo Boo might like a spayed female, if a local rescue has one available.

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 26, 2014

Rywen said:
I'm sorry things didn't work out. Boo Boo might like a spayed female, if a local rescue has one available.

thank you for the input, I really appreciate it. Just called all the local shelters. One had a female named Boo Boo but of course she wasn't spayed :/ that would have been too cute!
If I tried pairing him with another male do you have any advice as to what age/personality would be best? Boo Boo is very lazy/laid back. Thanks!

pigger123 · Oct 26, 2014

I would go for a laid-back adult, so that you don't have to deal with the hormonal puberty months with a younger boar. Thor actually might settle down once he gets about a year old, and then he probably wouldn't be so aggressive.

bpatters · Oct 26, 2014

If I were you, I'd wait on a neutered female, or have him neutered and pair him with a female. Nothing about the introductions you described was way out of the ordinary, but if their dominance squabbles bother you that much, there's not much point trying again with another male.

lissie · Oct 26, 2014

It didn't sound like they were fighting at all. Mounting is a normal dominance behavior during introductions, especially for boars. You should have let them work it out.

Some boars still mount each other even when they've lived together for years.

I feel bad for Thor being surrendered. He didn't do anything wrong.

Although intros should be done only once, it won't hurt if you decide to keep Thor and try again in a few weeks.
We say it should be done only once because we try to discourage people to interfere with the dominance process and separate them too soon. If they are not fighting till blood drawn, or neither of them are losing weight, they are fine.

No matter what you try, they'll always be mounting involved.

Read this thread for successful boars intros.
https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46468

labgirl5 · Oct 26, 2014

As some other people stated above, you're only supposed to separate pigs when they draw blood - everything you explained was completely, 100% normal, expected behavior for a pair of boars who are trying to establish dominance. My two boars went through the whole establishing-dominance phase for a whole week until they settled down. They still teeth chatter and rumble-strut occasionally, but not nearly when they were first introduced.

Although Boo Boo may not seem happy with less than a day with Thor, he'll be much happier when things settle down and he has a buddy. As the saying goes, "No pain, no gain".

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 26, 2014

I understand that mounting is normal and we gave it 9 hours in the neutral territory before even putting them in the cage. Boo Boo wasn't eating or drinking because Thor was not letting him and to me that is bullying. I know you are not supposed to separate them unless blood is drawn and I didn't. I let term hash it out for hours but I could tell Thor was hurting Boo Boo. I looked at all the videos and websites about introductions for weeks before introducing them. And I know Thor did nothing wrong but he and Boo Boo were just not getting along. I know Thor didn't do anything wrong and sure ending him was extremely hard for me.

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 26, 2014

It makes me sad that people are jumping down my throat instead of being sympathetic. We're here to support each other. And I'm glad I surrendered him back to the MSPCA where I got him because I know someone will be able to give him the home he needs.

AmberCalzone · Oct 26, 2014

I think what people are trying to say is, that although you thought you were doing the best for Boo Boo, and nine hours does seem like a VERY long time... you have to think of this way; if you were just put into a small little bedroom with someone you didn't know, and were told, "You're going to live together until one of you dies now, so work things out!"... well, don't you think that would take a little longer than 9 hours? ^.^

I know dominance behavior looks horribly scary to us humans (or may look like 'bullying'), but that's just how guinea pigs work things out. It's their language. Sure, you wouldn't go chasing and humping your new roommate around the room, but you would use your words to set out ground rules and what not, right? The chasing and humping, the dominance behavior, is just them using their 'words'. That's all.

Personally, I wouldn't have separated them. Like some others have said, it can take a week or two for the pigs to get accustomed to one another (like it would for us, if we were to get a roommate). Now that Thor is surrendered there really is no going back, though.

I suppose the best option for you would be to search for a spayed female. No matter who you try to pair him with (female or not), there still may be dominance behavior shown, and it may go on for a few days to a few weeks.

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 26, 2014

I understand that but Boo Boo wasn't fighting back at all. He was just laying tree and taking it. I thought in the given situation I was doing what was best for both pigs. So now that it's done it's done and there's no going back. I will wait for a spayed female and try again. It's hard enough on me as it is. this was my first introduction as it is so I need you guys to cut me a little slack. I'm not a bad person for doing what I did.

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 26, 2014

Thor also came from a situation where his brother was bullying him to the point they were separated so I think Thor was being overly aggressive because he didn't want to be beat up again.

AmberCalzone · Oct 26, 2014

No one is calling you a bad person! We're just urging you to understand that if this happens again when you try to repair him (there is a good possibility it will!), that the behavior you've described is perfectly normal, even if it goes on for hours on end. It's hard to see, but it's normal and okay, and both pigs will turn out be alright if you just allow them to work things out. And I know you honestly did try to let them work things out, but you just pulled the plug a little too soon (which is hard to hear when you saw BooBoo being dominated for so long, I understand!). If you let them be though, for however long it takes, the dominance behavior will die down and you'll have a pair of happily bonded piggies.

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 27, 2014

spy9doc said:
Everyone knows that I'm a big fan of pairing a neutered male with a female. Chester's brother absolutely made his life miserable with his constant dominance.........he didn't even bother to hump his bum, but would just hump Chester's head and mark everything in the cage. When Bubba died, I was adamant about not putting my sensitive, laid-back boy through that again, so we had him neutered to pair him with a female. Best move we could have made!

Chester and Maya have loved each other from the first time he laid eyes on her. I say either wait for a spayed female, or get Boo neutered and while he is healing, look for a girlfriend for him.

Thank you for the advice! I think a female might be the best for Boo Boo. He's so laid back that I think another pig who is more relaxed too might be a good fit for him. Does the surgeries have any negatives? If I put Boo Boo through the whole neutering thing, I want to make sure it won't affect him in any negative way. I know it can be hard to come by a spayed female so maybe this is the best option. I just really have to think about it.

ClemmyOddieIndy · Oct 27, 2014

Just so that you know, females can be dominant and mount too. If you think 9 hours is a long time... you should see what goes on in my cage after 5 years (all girls). But, I grew up on a horse farm and have seen plenty of dominance mounting. Actually, in my experience the females are a million times worse than males when it comes to dominance. You should see what happens when I put a new gelding in with the girls.

SesshyBooBoo · Oct 28, 2014

Thank you for the suggestions. I definitely will do plenty of research and ask my vet loads of questions before making the decision to neuter Boo Boo. I might want to try one more time with another male (maybe an older male who is more laid back and shy like my pig) I think Thor had way to much energy for him. It was kind of like putting a puppy in with an old dog. I know there's no way of knowing how two pigs will get along but maybe a quieter pig will be better or Boo Boo.

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Aggression Introduction failed. Surrendering pig. Next steps?

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