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  • ONE THREAD per pig please!
    We really want your pig's history all in one place to help you. Please don't start a new thread for a new issue. Just reply to your old one. We can edit the title for you if needed.

Conditions Uterine Tumor: What Would You Do?

zsquidtastic

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Re: Blood and Lethargy

I merged your threads. You get ONE medical thread per pig. It's too hard for responders to keep up with everything that's going on if the info is spread all over the forum. If you want the title of a thread changed, just ask one of the admins or mods.

Can you change the title then? 'Uterine Tumor: What Would You Do?' Thanks.
 

zsquidtastic

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Re: Blood and Lethargy

Thank you guys for replying - I will reply to your posts soon when I have more time online. It's just crazy to me that Opal is more vocal now than she has been in so long - I think because of the pain meds. Makes me sad to think she's been in pain for so long when I just thought she had become a quiet pig. I feel like an ignorant owner.
 

zsquidtastic

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I don't know if this helps at all, but all you can do is make the best choice you can knowing what you know. Best of luck.

Thank you so much for your detailed response. Opal is strong and she always has been. I remember taking her home when I first got her, she was only 2-3 weeks old, and she was ravenously eating the hay and parsley I had brought for her. Given my previous experience with pigs, I expected her to be terrified! She's always had a strong appetite and she's always been a little spunky babe. I am just so indecisive about it all. Over the weekend, I was siding on pain meds and riding out the days until euthanasia was necessary. Now, I'm considering the surgery. I keep bouncing around. I wish I had a sure instinct like it seems you have. I hate the idea of her going through surgery. All of it feels so unnatural to me. And how can I justify $1500 if she dies? But also, I'm not ready to let her go. And I don't want to look back and regret not doing it because of the money.

I've also had a weirdly similar experience with another pig about two years ago. She was 2.5 years old, on a SECOND look at an x-ray the vet (different clinic) determined there to be a mass, didn't mention operation, and suggested euthanasia. She was acting completely normal besides some lethargy. But I freaked out and took her to an emergency vet on the weekend. After waiting an hour they told me I wouldn't get to be in the room with her during the euthanasia. My mom was waiting for me in the car, we'd waited this long to be seen, I felt like I had to do it, I didn't want her to be in pain, so I consented. And I've regretted that decision ever since. I feel like whatever decision I make now, I will regret. I just wish I knew.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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There's no way to know. There's never a guarantee, just a chance.

Last year when I had to put my boy down, even though I knew it to be the right decision it was a more than heartbreaking one to have to make. Even though I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, to this day I still think, "What if?" "What didn't I think of?". For me that'll never go away, and even though it was right I won't forgive myself for it. Stupid maybe, but I feel like I took away from him the only things he had to give. His life and his love.

If Opal is a strong girl, she will likely do just fine but it can go either way. If Sly had needed surgery and it was $1500 with no guarantee it would still be worth it to me to try. My funds are definitely not unlimited but I would have gone without things to give him that shot. And of course, your situation will invariably be different.

You need to make the best choice for you, and for Opal. No one knows either one of you the way you do. But the long and short of it is this: With the surgery, there is a chance. Without, there is none. And even though you'll have pain meds which will help in the short term, she can't tell you when the meds aren't helping any more. She can't tell you when it's time. I do have to say, that the vet recommended immediate surgery. The longer you wait and bounce around, the more likely it is that the decision will be taken out of your hands.

I am so very sorry you're in this position. I am thinking of you and Opal, and sending positive thoughts your way for whatever it will be that you face.
 

zsquidtastic

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I think I've decided to do the surgery. She deserves a chance. Her appetite is fantastic and she's keeping on even though I know she's in pain, I think she's telling me she has a strong will to live. Surgery will decide if it's her time.

I am upset with the vet though and have a new decision to make. I called the other exotic vet in town and they quoted ~$700, though it may end up being more. I visited this vet when I first moved to Phoenix about a year ago because my other pig was having urinary problems. I did not get good vibes - it felt like they had no idea what they were doing. But I could have been in a bad mood or holding onto some sort of bias. I don't know... Just talking with the receptionist today she was like, "we do way more complicated surgeries than on guinea pigs... like on bearded dragons and stuff, so she'll be fine." Again, rubbing me the wrong way. Just the receptionist, but still.

So now I've got to decide between weird vibes, cheaper clinic and a clinic that I feel good about (at least upon first impression) that seems to be overcharging me.
 

bpatters

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Could you talk to the vet at the cheaper clinic and see what qualifications they've got? How many of those surgeries they've done?

I try to avoid the front desk staff as much as possible...
 

zsquidtastic

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Could you talk to the vet at the cheaper clinic and see what qualifications they've got? How many of those surgeries they've done?

I try to avoid the front desk staff as much as possible...

I was waiting for my current vet to call me back and she finally did. After discussing with her, I decided I'm going with them. She said that there were some additional costs factored into the estimate that may not be necessary at all. It may not be $1400, rather $900-1000. Either way, I feel like I trust this vet more and it's easier without the additional exam and investigation that would come with the other vet. I spoke with her for a half an hour about everything and I feel so much better finally coming to a decision, and just being able to talk to her about it. I'm still worried about losing Opal, but I know it's now or never, and as I said, she deserves a chance. The lil punk.

Opal is going into surgery either tomorrow (if the doc has an opening) or Thursday. She's vigorously eating her veg right now and has been doing pretty great in terms of appetite. Thanks guys for your advice & I'll keep you posted.
 

zsquidtastic

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Hi guys. Opal went in for surgery yesterday around 1 p.m. Since it was such a late surgery, they kept her overnight. The vet ended up only removing the uterus, as it was filled with polyps - one on her left side 50g and pretty big. It took her 45 minutes to remove the uterus, and she made the call to end the surgery after that - an extra 45 minutes to remove the ovaries might have been too dangerous under the anesthesia. The vet said she suggested a less invasive surgery when she's recovered to remove the ovaries, or else they may create problems.

She said Opal eventually ate some greens yesterday (though today it looked like they were feeding her a spring mix or something totally different than what my average green leaf looks like). Her cage-mate Stella was with her for support, so it was difficult for them to track poos. But finally today when I was picking her up we caught her pooing.

She's at home now and it's very strange for me. She seems so dissociated. I know she's in a lot of pain. She isn't wanting to move much, nor will she eat any fresh vegetables. I just tried feeding critical care and she didn't want it very much. Are they supposed to be audibly chewing with the force feeding?

She's on meloxicam 0.6 cc once a day and Baytril (Enrofloxaci 20 mg/ml) 0.9 ml twice a day. I asked about a probiotic and they said only if it seems like she isn't responding well after 24 hours. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and give it to her given her reluctance to eat.

I'm worried. She isn't moving much and doesn't show any desire to eat or do anything. Any tips/advice appreciated.
 

bpatters

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See https://www.guinealynx.info/postop.html for some information.

DO feed her. Guinea pigs MUST eat or they'll die. And if you get the food back to her molars, she'll chew and eat.

And yes, I'd go ahead and give the probiotic about an hour after every antibiotic dose.
 

stray hares

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It's a big surgery (and hey, Olive's ovaries were left in as well just to keep the surgery time to under an hour) it's common for a piggy to be a little "out of it" after a long GA procedure. And different animals will be affected differently.

How much does she weigh and what's the concentration of the meloxicam? My pigs are usually on a higher dose twice a day for a couple of days post surgery. Once a day dosing is a little more common in rabbits than piggies in my experience.
 

zsquidtastic

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And yes, I'd go ahead and give the probiotic about an hour after every antibiotic dose.

Does Critical Care have probiotics in it? Seeing the descriptions online it seems it does - but I don't see anything explicitly stated on the package.
 

zsquidtastic

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It's a big surgery (and hey, Olive's ovaries were left in as well just to keep the surgery time to under an hour) it's common for a piggy to be a little "out of it" after a long GA procedure. And different animals will be affected differently.

How much does she weigh and what's the concentration of the meloxicam? My pigs are usually on a higher dose twice a day for a couple of days post surgery. Once a day dosing is a little more common in rabbits than piggies in my experience.

Did you end up getting Olive's ovaries removed? The vet's reasoning for having Opal on the antibiotic is so an infection (pyometra) doesn't occur. I don't like that she's on the antibiotic. Last time she was on it for a URI a couple of years ago, she did not respond well & lost weight & appetite. I voiced this to the vet tech (the vet had to run out for an emergency in the middle of our meeting) and she said try a probiotic after 24 hours. I may do it now, because I don't like how things are going. I have never given a probiotic though, so a bit nervous. Anyway, the vet wants to do surgery again. And implied she'd be on the antibiotic until surgery. Hesitant about it all.

She weighs around 1200g. Or at least she did pre-surgery. I would weigh her now, but I just had her out for feeding and I don't want to stress her out again. It's 2 mg/ml concentration. I asked about splitting up the dose and they said apparently she was taking well to the higher one-time does? I don't know. Is this not enough pain meds? She seems in obvious pain. She is breathing really hard, not moving much, and has no interest in anything. Not even her most favorite veg.
 

zsquidtastic

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Sorry guys a million questions. If I do administer the acidophilus (currently in tablet form, does have extra ingredients like cellulose & silica - can't remember if this is the wrong kind?) how do I do it/how much? She won't eat fresh veg, so I can't just sprinkle it on there. Or should I take the poop from her cage-mate and use this? Again, I haven't done either.

The fact that Opal ate vegetable yesterday, way less time after the surgery, than today even at home, indicates to me that she's not enjoying the Baytril. But also, she is in a lot of pain.
 

stray hares

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2mg/mL is higher in concentration than the meloxicam I use usually (1.5mg/mL) so that explains the difference! I'd check with your vet if they think splitting the dose might help? Sometimes pigs will eat sooner after surgery because they're on the hardcore surgical strength pain relief at the vets too, but it could also be the Baytril. Olive never had her ovaries removed, but they were normal/healthy. Different pigs of course are different!

We have different probiotics in Australia to the US, I usually use a special veterinary one that's available over here. I think Benebac is used a lot over there? Hopefully someone can help with dosage! But I think it's sort of usually a pea-sized amount of Benebac.

I'd definitely contact your vet though if she seems to be struggling though. Putting her on Tramal in addition to meloxicam might help too.
 

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I hope she gets back to her old self very soon!!!!
 

zsquidtastic

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Sometimes pigs will eat sooner after surgery because they're on the hardcore surgical strength pain relief at the vets too, but it could also be the Baytril. Olive never had her ovaries removed, but they were normal/healthy. Different pigs of course are different!

The vet said the issue was in her uterus, but she's still pushing for a "flank spay" to remove the ovaries because apparently, there is a small change of them continuing to release hormones that trigger any left over uterine tissue (and thus creating a "pus uterus" or pyometra, that would be a severe internal infection). It's surprising to me that you had no discussion of this & your girl was totally fine without. Because I certainly would rather avoid a second surgery.

We have different probiotics in Australia to the US, I usually use a special veterinary one that's available over here. I think Benebac is used a lot over there? Hopefully someone can help with dosage! But I think it's sort of usually a pea-sized amount of Benebac.

I spoke with a vet tech this morning (can't seem to get ahold of this doc) and he said we could switch around meds if the doc thought it appropriate. I kept asking about probiotics and he was like yeah sure just grind up the tablet & sprinkle it into the critical care. We'll see.

I'd definitely contact your vet though if she seems to be struggling though. Putting her on Tramal in addition to meloxicam might help too.

I spoke with them at 8 a.m. and requested the doc to call me back to discuss pain meds - it's been about 4 hours now & I've heard nothing. To me, it feels like every hour counts because she's struggling so much, so I'm a little frustrated. I'm about to go home for lunch and check on her & feed her some more. She did give me one spark of hope this morning, after I had force fed a little bit, she took a few nibbles on green leaf. She had a moment of inspiration & motivation! But it quickly dwindled. She isn't moving much at all.
 

zsquidtastic

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This stupid vet will not get back to me. I guess they book themselves to the gills and provide false promises to their patients that they're there to help 24/7.

I got home from work and she has still been pooping, but a couple of the poops were sludgy - looking like it was nearing diarrhea. One had some gel-like, mucousy blood (I think?) around it. My main concern is that she is unwilling to keep her head up. She will move around just barely and it looks like it's terribly hard for her to keep her head up. I know this is a bad sign - but I don't know how bad, or if it's to be expected or what.
 

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Your girl had major, invasive surgery two days ago. I'm sure she's in a lot of pain, and she's going to need you to help carry her through it. My boy had a lot of surgeries, but none as invasive as Opal's and the second day pretty much always seemed to be worse than the first. He was always really, really out of it for a good 24 hours afterward.

Feed her as much as you can of the Critical Care. She really won't want to eat on her own, and you'll basically have to make her.

I do hope she turns a corner soon and begins to come around. The worrying and the wondering is the worst.

Edit: I did not see the reply you just made. If you feel she is in danger, by all means rush her back in. I would agree that not keeping her head up isn't a good sign, but truthfully I've never had a girl go through this and do not know what to expect.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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See my edit above. I screwed up this post.
 

stray hares

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The vet said the issue was in her uterus, but she's still pushing for a "flank spay" to remove the ovaries because apparently, there is a small change of them continuing to release hormones that trigger any left over uterine tissue (and thus creating a "pus uterus" or pyometra, that would be a severe internal infection). It's surprising to me that you had no discussion of this & your girl was totally fine without. Because I certainly would rather avoid a second surgery.

Olive's entire uterus was removed. I'll message the vet who did the surgery and ask about this (even though she's moved to a different clinic interstate we're friends on Facebook, which is handy), even though it was several years ago now she'll remember the surgery. There are different ways to perform a hysterectomy so it's possible Opal has tissue left over that Olive did not have?

It's a big surgery either way though, if Opal's digestive system is working and you can get food and fluids into her she will take at least a few days to recover and be herself again. It's rough for both of you, :( but hang in there. :)
 
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