Where People & Piggies Thrive

Newbie or Guinea Guru? Popcorn in!

Register for free to enjoy the full benefits.
Find out more about the NEW, drastically improved site and forum!

Register
  • ONE THREAD per pig please!
    We really want your pig's history all in one place to help you. Please don't start a new thread for a new issue. Just reply to your old one. We can edit the title for you if needed.

Conditions Can't eat hay or hard stems

Cogni

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Posts
1,405
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
1,405
I am very puzzled as to the condition that my Badger has. He started having trouble eating last week - stopped eating lettuce, even his favorite parsley, and his hay. After 2 days of trying to feed him everything I could think of in addition to his normal veggies (fresh grass, wheat grass, Oxbow pellets, various kinds of Oxbow hay- he refused all) I took him to the vet, who checked out his teeth with a camerascope in the mouth and felt all round his head and jaw. His heart and lungs were fine. He was not depressed-looking in front of the vet; he said he had a good attitude. The vet saw nothing wrong with his teeth, no uneven wear etc. But it was clear Badger was losing weight - down to 1150 g. which is very low for him. (He was about 1480 when I brought him to Colorado two months ago.) That vet visit was one week ago, Thursday. The vet gave me Critical Care and I began feeding as much as he would take of it. He would eat it off a popsicle stick, obviously hungry and eager to eat. He began to improve that day, once he started getting food in. The vet also gave me a probiotic for him. He went from no poop to larger and larger and finally pretty healthy looking poops (to me).

By Sunday he was eating some blades of cut wheat grass, and I could roll up some tender leaves of baby lettuce and he would take them and was able to chew them slowly using his usual wood-chipper style - direct full-frontal munching as the food disappears through the front teeth and into the mouth. (He is normally a very fast eater, but not since this started; he's very slow). But with larger leaves, he had trouble. And, especially hay. I managed to get a bit of hay into him by rolling up a strand in a leaf. But I noticed that sometimes he'd finish the leaf but have the hay strand hanging out of his mouth as though he can't get it to move into his mouth. It gets stuck there - with the end chewed but not cut through. Sometimes the same with spinach - I don't usually feed spinach but he loves it so I let him have some leaves from the spring greens packet. The spinach leaf would be chewed on the end but then expelled, like he couldn't get it in. He tries to maneuver a leaf into the center of his mouth by tossing his head, trying to get it positioned right, but when he can't, he steps on it to tear it. If he can't get it right he gets frustrated and gives up and goes for something else.

This past Tuesday I took him for a follow-up vet visit. I took the 5 days of poops in yogurt containers so the vet could see the progress. He said Badger was 80% back to normal but he wanted to see more and moister poops. Heart, lungs, attitude still good. I said he still would go into a corner and face the wall, hunched up, after eating sometimes, as though he possibly had some pain. The vet still could not find any problem with the teeth. He said maybe it is a root problem, but that would be difficult to treat. He did not see any mouth sores or other mouth problem. He did not want to take an x-ray because he would have to put Badger under and he said we should see whether he improves first. He gave me an NSAID in case it seemed like Badger was in pain. Badger picked up a piece of hay in the vet's office and was nibbling at it, which vet and I found encouraging, but later I noticed that he had not actually eaten that piece. Today, Thursday, he seemed to backslide a bit and not want to eat much of his mush, and refused any baby lettuce leaves and parsley and cucumber cut up very tiny which he had been eating the last 4 days. So I gave him the NSAID (.2cc of Metacam) and then fed him some mush (i.e. Critical Care) via syringe, which he struggled against mightily. At least I got the medicine and his probiotic and some of the mush into him. I let him rest and then he ate more mush off a popsicle stick, eagerly as though hungry. I saw him trying to eat hay but dropping it. He also ate some very thin matchsticks of carrot (again, not something I give him often due to the high sugar) and of fennel. The vet said I should also give him a lot of water through syringe as he won't drink from the bottle. He never did drink much, but now we're in a dry climate. Badger was drinking from the bottle when it was hot out, before he was sick, but now it has cooled down a lot outside and in (we have no A/C) and he won't drink.

What could it be if his teeth are ok? I'm at my wits' end. Luckily Badger is a feisty boy and wants to get better.
 

bpatters

Moderator
Staff member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Posts
29,251
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
29,251
Hi, Cogni, long time no see!

I'm not convinced that it's not his teeth. Those are pretty classic tooth symptoms, whether from overgrown molars, abscesses, or elongated roots. I'd want x-rays of his head, both side and top views, and I'd want a dental exam with his mouth propped open rather than with a scope they insert in his mouth.

Have you been able to find a good exotic vet there?
 

Cogni

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Posts
1,405
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
1,405
I agree that it has to be something with his teeth. I am in Boulder CO and went to the Arapahoe Animal Hospital. A piggie site recommended a Dr. Hayes there, but I got the other exotics vet, Dr. Smith, in the same clinic, and he was the one that said wait on the x-ray. I asked to see Dr. Hayes on the second visit but they said I had to go to Dr. Smith because he had already seen Badger and was familiar with him. It seems tricky to switch vets when they are in the same practice - but for next visit I will try. I asked the vet to actually look in Badger's mouth on the second visit, and he seemed to try, getting down to table level and peering at the mouth, but did not seem to make much of it. He is probably used to the scope more than to observing with naked eye. I read about tooth problems on guinea lynx and was surprised that he saw no symptoms of those things you mention.
 

bpatters

Moderator
Staff member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Posts
29,251
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
29,251
Look at the vet list over at GL, and the one at Guinea Pig Zone, and see if you can come up with another vet. I don't think they've yet done a decent dental exam, and the longer you go before getting it fixed, the more weight he's likely to lose. Not to mention the wear and tear on you and him to feed him.
 

Cogni

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Posts
1,405
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
1,405
Look at the vet list over at GL, and the one at Guinea Pig Zone, and see if you can come up with another vet. I don't think they've yet done a decent dental exam, and the longer you go before getting it fixed, the more weight he's likely to lose. Not to mention the wear and tear on you and him to feed him.

Thanks, great advice Billie, as always! I will research a new vet tonight. If we have to drive to Denver, we'll do it (she said without consulting her driver. But he loves Badger too so he will!)

He perked up a lot at the last feeding. He was eating the crunchier lettuces (romaine hearts and similar), albeit snipped into strands. And I did not have to use the syringe. He ate for a long time (although it takes him a while to get a decent amount in, so he probably was not gorged as he would normally be for that amount of time spent eating). I think there must be an abscess under there somewhere. 3 days after he got pronounced healthy and fit to travel by his Houston vet, the excellent Dr. Natalie Antinoff, he had some pinkish ooze on his lefthand snout area below his nose. I thought at first it was vomit, but it did not smell like it. Not much smell at all, or maybe a very slight bad whiff. There was no time left to get back to the vet, we were packing to get out of the college apartment and also getting our rental units ready for new tenants. The pink stuff didn't wipe off - I tried - but it dried up around his whiskers and he finally got rid of the last of it by the time we got to Boulder, less than a week later. It left a small bare patch without whiskers, but the whiskers have since grown back. Throughout, he seemed to be quite normal, eating like the ravenous pig he usually is. I thought it might be pus from an abscess, perhaps with a bit of blood in it which was my thought for why it was pink not yellow. Then I pretty much forgot about it until now, 2 months later, when he had this trouble. I told the vet about it but he didn't make much of that either.

I do need to find a good specialist in this area. We won't get back to Houston until December. You don't know how much I appreciate your help!! You taught me how to dose Tufty (rest his piggie soul) and I am obviously out of practice with the syringe, or perhaps Badger is just bigger and stronger and has his own brand of feistiness. I'll learn again.
 

bpatters

Moderator
Staff member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Posts
29,251
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
29,251
Just one tip to help distinguish pus from other secretions. Guinea pig pus is thick, cheesy and incredibly smelly. They're missing some enzyme that, in other species, liquifies pus into the yellowish liquid we're familiar with. So if it looks like human pus, it ain't!
 

Cogni

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Posts
1,405
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
1,405
Update on Badger: I could not get him in for an appointment with another specialist before I have to go out of town (early tomorrow). But he is eating a lot more and gaining weight steadily - he is up to a bit over 1200 grams (still down about 280g from his pre-illness weight, but up over 100g from the low point. In the last few days he has been eating mush and cut-up veggies voraciously. Today he was able to eat two Oxbow pellets cut in half. He can eat whole sprigs of flat-leaf parsely, including the stems. That's a big change. Timothy hay is still beyond him though. I have snipped some up and put it on his spoonful of mush and he'll take some. But when he takes a strand of hay in his mouth he usually drops it before getting very far. Still, the matchsticks of carrot and fennel bulb I have been giving him are cut bigger, instead of curled shards cut with a vegetable peeler. My husband is going to take care of Badger for 5 days, as I don't think my boy is out of the woods yet. I still don't know what is going on with his teeth or jaws (or maybe tongue or lips). All I know is he is managing his food better. I will take him to the new vet next week when I return to Colorado.
 

bpatters

Moderator
Staff member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Posts
29,251
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
29,251
I hope he gets along ok. Let us know how he's doing when you return.
 

Cogni

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Posts
1,405
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
1,405
I hope he gets along ok. Let us know how he's doing when you return.

Latest update on Badger: I took him to the big Veterinary Teaching Hospital in Fort Collins, CO last month. Badger was thoroughly checked over by a specialist in the exotics department who I was told specialized in cavies and rabbits. He gave Badger a full exam in my presence and with 3 veterinary students also observing. I gave a very extensive medical history which he listened to with care. He performed a full physical exam including careful head, neck, and mouth observations; full x-rays, and bloodwork. It took a while, because he would occasionally ask the students 'test questions' which they had to answer. After all the results were in: Everything was normal, including Badger's active alert behavior and his screaming when his bottom was examined. The vet checked off all the right boxes, as far as I could tell: said his coat is glossy and eyes bright; ears clean and apparently functioning normally; teeth are in good shape and evenly worn; no sign of stones, impaction, or weak walls on his perineal sac; feet and nails in good shape; no sign of respiratory, heart, or kidney problems. He has a slight eye problem, with his lower lids sagging a bit showing more of the white than normal; but he has had that for about 3 years. Badger is in pretty good shape for an almost 6-year-old pig, he said.

Finally he says: [serious look, raises hands]: "I don't know what's wrong with your guinea pig." He said to continue monitoring Badger and keep feeding Critical Care until his weight was back to normal. That was about 4 weeks ago. Badger's weight then was a bit over 1280 grams. I just weighed him again and it is still the same today.

This is a boy who, when I got him at 9 mo. old, weighed 1300g and was up to 1390 within a few months. At his heaviest, he was over 1500. The vet at that time (an excellent one in Houston) said to not feed him pellets anymore; Badger, she said, was borderline obese although he did not have a lot of obvious excess fat. She was one of the believers in no pellets, or pellets only as treats. So he got no more pellets. After 6 months, he was down to 1480 and stayed steady at that weight through his medical checkup at the end of June. The vet gave me a "Certificate of Health" for him. We brought him with us to Boulder at the start of July, we went to England soon after, and then returned Aug. 6. He seemed perfectly well to his caregiver, eating veggies from her garden. It was at the end of August I noticed he had lost weight, and then I became alarmed within a week when he seemed to stop eating altogether. His weight got down to about 1150 and he was puffed up and huddled in a corner. After I gave him the treatments (something for pain, a probiotic, and Critical Care) he began eating but it took weeks before he would eat normally again. And although he seems to eat his normal amount, i.e. a lot, now, including plenty of veggies and a lot of hay, plus the Critical Care he still begs for (although he eats much less of it now; he turns away after eating a tablespoon or less), he doesn't gain weight.

The only change I can think of that happened around the end of August is that he ran out of his KleenMama hay and I was feeding him bagged hay from a shop. But the problem did not coincide exactly with the change of hay. I was waiting for their new crop and got in his new hay about the second or third week of September I think. I don't know why he would suddenly decide he didn't like a new batch of hay and would then stop eating altogether.

So, that's my update if you cared to read this far. All I can say is, I'm glad my little boy seems to have recovered, although at a new more svelte weight. Maybe something in his body told him he'd better cut back or he'd get heart disease or diabetes. But he sure overdid that! I think we dodged a bullet when took him to the vet and got him eating the Critical Care.

Sometimes piggies are mysterious little creatures!
 

bpatters

Moderator
Staff member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Posts
29,251
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
29,251
Older pigs have a harder time maintaining weight, and getting them to gain any back is just nearly impossible. My two are a little younger than Badger, but they're off a couple of hundred grams from their highest weight, and Ruffles is a little thinner than Flourish.

Several people I know have reported good success with their older pigs with Oxbow's Dietary Supplement. It's got a probiotic in it (yes, I know Antinoff doesn't approve, but you and I know better!), and it seems to give these older pigs a bit of an advantage. I'd suggest trying that and see if it gives him a little bit of a push.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.

Similar threads

M
Replies
4
Views
590
bpatters
bpatters
S
Replies
4
Views
376
barbaramudge
barbaramudge
H
Replies
3
Views
314
hannahbannon
H
alicee
Replies
8
Views
927
Kids0519
K
Top