Conditions Pneumonia!

Cogni · Sep 30, 2011

My poor little Tufty was diagnosed yesterday with pneumonia!

He was making a horrible low respiratory noise with every breath on Wednesday night, and was not eating very much. I hand fed him his favorite treats and picked out the best pieces of hay I could find, and he did eat from my hand, but so little that he hardly pooped. I got him to the vet early Thursday morning where he was x-rayed and diagnosed. Both lungs are extremely affected!! He hid his symptoms apparently until that last day!

He has to have 30 days of twice a day Baytril, plus be given nebulizer treatment with a disinfectant and some other meds in the water.

What causes pneumonia? Could it have been the A/C? Unfortunately A/C air gets blown powerfully from above over the whole apartment so we can't avoid drafts anywhere, but they have plenty of sheltered places. They have been living in this over-airconditioned place for 13 months but only 6 months or so in the spot they are now. (It is still hot here in Houston and we are in a university building that doesn't allow full control over the a/c.) I moved Tufty last night to a cage UNDER the dining room table in an attempt to shelter him more from blowing air.

His eating had picked up yesterday (Thursday), but now he's back to eating very little. I am wondering if the Baytril has upset his tummy. Any advice? Probiotics? how to give?

Today I heard Badger sneeze. I will take him in too because pneumonia is bacterial and I assume it COULD be catching--any knowledge about this?

bpatters · Sep 30, 2011

Poor Tufty! He just can't catch a break, can he?

Pneumonia can be viral as well as bacterial, but either type is contagious, and you're right to treat Badger.

As you and I have discussed, I have a difference of opinion with Antinoff on probiotics. My theory is that they won't hurt, and may (do, in my opinion) help, so why not give them? Benebac is available locally, if she won't give you one, or you could use acidophilus. Or, you could get Baxter to donate caecal poops. Good luck on that!

If you do give them, do so 1-2 hours before and/or after the antibiotics. And keep us posted on how he's doing.

CavyMama · Sep 30, 2011

Cogni, sorry to hear about Tufti. They do a good job hiding those symptoms, eh? Poor little guy. Keep us updated on his progress, okay?

bpatters said:
Or, you could get Baxter to donate caecal poops. Good luck on that!

BP - every time I've seen you say that, I get this image of a cartoon in my head where a guinea pig and human are having a tug of war over a caecal poop. The guinea pig is standing on his back feet, holding the poop with his "hands" and the human is trying to pull it away but the gp is pulling back and making noises seemingly chastising the human for wanting to take it.

bpatters · Sep 30, 2011

CavyMama, that would make a cute cartoon! Wish I could draw. :-(

ellisa · Sep 30, 2011

I am so sorry about Tufty! I hope he gets feeling better soon!
CavyMama, that was so funny! I will have the same visual now every time someone mentions caecal poop donations

ellbell · Sep 30, 2011

Awwww Poor baby. I wish they didnt get sick. My guinea pig is blind in one of from a stupid peice of hay....

lissie · Sep 30, 2011

I hope Tufty gets better soon.

Cogni · Sep 30, 2011

Thanks all! Since I was given antibiotics for the pneumonia they diagnosed, I assume it
must be bacterial.

If Badger has the bacterium too, maybe his caecal pellets wouldn't be good for Tufty?
Kind of a moot point though, since Badger gets them straight from the source and doesn't
leave any around his domain. No chance even for a tug of war! (Even if they weren't too mushy to tug!)
Still, nice image Cavymama!

Tufty lets me hand-feed him, but he is not eating much. Could not get the probiotics today but we will get them tomorrow.
He has had 3 doses of ABs so far.
We put him in the nebulizer today. Oh he does not like it at all!! Poor poor little tyke.

The vet said it was a good thing I brought him in when I did, as his lungs are seriously affected. Since he did not stop eating until the day of first symptoms, Wednesday, he did not lose any weight until then, but now I am weighing him with each treatment since his eating is not so good. I wish my new box of Kleenmama's would come soon!! All I have left is last year's third cut which was half brown.

foggycreekcavy · Sep 30, 2011

What are the meds in the water?

Cogni · Sep 30, 2011

There are 3 things in the water: "F10 Disinfectant Concentrate" which is diluted in a gallon
of water, and I use 10 ml of that dilute base solution for each dose of medicine;
and the 2 medicines added to the base solution are "Gentocin Injection", .5 ml per dose,
and then " Mucomyst 20% A/E", 1 ml per dose. (That mucomyst is pretty pricey, we paid
$132 for 60 ml.) He gets 2 doses a day, one morning, one night, for 30 days.

After this evening's dose, his second dose so far, he perked up
and went around his temporary 2x2 cage exploring
and munching what he found. He hadn't moved much for the last few days so I take that
as a great sign!! Maybe the nebulizer is clearing his lungs a bit. I will
be so happy if this works and Tufty gets back to his old curious self, the piggy
who pushes through anything in his way. He has always liked to headbutt his box hideys
to get them exactly where he wants them and he did a little of that tonight!! Oh my brave boy!

kathlaaron · Oct 1, 2011

Cogni said:
He has always liked to headbutt his box hideys
to get them exactly where he wants them and he did a little of that tonight!! Oh my brave boy!

First, I just want to send some healing warm wishes to your boy, I am so glad he has perked up some ! Boy what a shock it must of been, for him to be diagnosed with such an acute case of pneumonia ! I am so sorry, and hope he continues to improve. Scary, huh ?!

Second, I wanted to share with you that my girl Buttercup does the same thing ! I love how she re-arranges her cozies all the time, to just the way she likes it. She is very muscular and strong, and can easily move heavy objects around her home. She loves to push her balls around too ! Some piggies are so industrious, aren't they ?!

bpatters · Oct 1, 2011

Cogni, I've sent you a PM, in case you see it first that way. I've got plenty of super second KM hay, as well as bluegrass. Want me to bring you some?

Hhbean · Oct 1, 2011

Sorry to hear about your little guy, but glad to hear he's perking up! @bpatters, your awesome! I wish I knew other GP parents near me, so we could be there for each other(i.e. bring over fresh hay)!

Cogni · Oct 1, 2011

Thanks so much bpatters for dropping off the box of hay!! The boys are so happy to have some excellent hay, instead of the half-brown stuff we had left. Fed Ex apparently came today but since our office is closed on Saturdays they took the hay away again.
If you are ever out of anything you need, please do let me know! You have my number.

Tufty had his probiotic, dinner, and Baytril earlier and now he will be nebulized again. I hope it works as well as last night. He seems to me to be eating better than yesterday, and he is munching the good hay happily.

Badger is the one that seems more out of sorts now. I made another temporary cage under the table for him as I am worried about the large A/C vent. (Although it cooled off beautifully today and we opened the windows, we are about to move the furniture around and put the dining table where their cage was. A long way from the kitchen but that's ok.) Badger is doing his 'discomfort' whimper, seeming to say, 'this is not my house! Let me go home! Mean Tufty lives around here! I smell him!"
My poor little boys are all topsy turvy, like my living room.

Josephine · Oct 2, 2011

Foggycreek asked me to check in on this thread and the only real concern I have is this disinfectant added to the nebulizer. I am not familiar with this product and I have done a bit of research on the internet and can not figure out how the vet is recommending it be nebulized? It is marketed as a very safe disinfectant for exotics, but I don't see where it is recommended to be taken internally. Did the vet explain this product to you? If it is a new therapy, I would be interested to do more.

I think the other meds added to the nebulizer are certainly appropriate...

Josephine · Oct 2, 2011

Oops, I also meant to add, that sometimes these pigs with severe respiratory disease/pneumonia also have heart disease. Sometimes it weakens them or predisposes them to lung infections due to the difficulty moving fluid through... Might be something to think about and get checked out if he doesn't improve soon.

Cogni · Oct 2, 2011

Thank you Josephine!! I will call the vet tomorrow to ask about this issue of putting the disinfectant right in with the medicine. It is a very weak solution, but still!! Delivery of a topical disinfectant straight into the lungs sounds a little dicey. In fact the more I think about it the more it freaks me out! I just read various things about use of nebulizers for people, and all the info I can see on the web talks about disinfecting AFTER use, not during.

I will ask about the heart issue too. They were at first concerned that he had a heart condition, before the x-ray came back, but said they heard no heart abnormalities during examination. But I'll ask whether there could be a lurking underlying condition.

Now I don't know whether to nebulize with or without the disinfectant, until I hear something from the vet. Anybody who knows more about this issue, please contribute to this thread.

bpatters · Oct 2, 2011

Josephine, Cogni's vet for Tufty is Dr. Natalie Antinoff, of Gulf Coast Avian and Exotics in Houston. If you google her name backwards (Antinoff, Natalie), you'll find a number of articles that she's written or presented. Perhaps one of them would explain more about the disinfectant. I'd like to hear about that also.

Cogni · Oct 3, 2011

Dr. Antinoff wasn't available the day I brought Tufty in, so he was seen by a younger vet, Dr. Chan. She was the one who prescribed the meds. I found just today that she has gone off on maternity leave as of today, so I left a msg. this morning with Dr. Antinoff to call me. I hope I hear soon. I followed the exact instructions again last night with the disinfectant in the water, because I was afraid of giving him an infection if I didn't. I will ask also on Guinea Lynx when I have a moment, and try to reach Dr. Antinoff again if she doesn't get back to me soon.

Cogni · Oct 4, 2011

I talked to Dr. Antinoff today about the F10 stuff and she explained its nature to me, saying it is fine to use in the nebulizer. In the form it is used in nebulizers, she said, it is not really a disinfectant (which sounds like a cleaning product, which is one use of the substance) but in this case more like an antimicrobial agent. It is so mild, especially when diluted way down from the concentrate, that it is used to nebulize the tiny lungs of small birds as well, and can be used as a base liquid to deliver other medication even through the delicate skin of reptiles.
That sets my mind at rest, somewhat. I was terrified there was some mistake in the instructions and I was poisoning him.

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