Where People & Piggies Thrive

Newbie or Guinea Guru? Popcorn in!

Register for free to enjoy the full benefits.
Find out more about the NEW, drastically improved site and forum!

Register
  • ONE THREAD per pig please!
    We really want your pig's history all in one place to help you. Please don't start a new thread for a new issue. Just reply to your old one. We can edit the title for you if needed.

Sick OMG! Guinea Pig #3 also died! WTH am I doing wrong? (Long, sorry)

Trixy

Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Posts
12
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
12
Bought 2 piggies back in Feb. Piggy (broken link removed) (Butterscotch) broke out in Ringworm 3 days after we got her. Piggy (broken link removed) (Wilma) died 5 days after that. Both were pet store piggies. Spent over $150 at the Vet for Butterscotch. Never made it to my vet appt for Wilma because she died right after I made it. Brought Butterscotch back to the store and insisted they care for her since they sold me two sick piggies, one of which died. They took her and said they'd call after treatment so I can have her back. They offered to clean her cage so she wasn't reinfected when I get her back, refunded me the cost of the cage and the two piggies and then gave me $150 in a gift card to make up for my vet expenses. They actually went above and beyond.

Fast forward to last Thursday. Called the store, said Butterscotch was doing great and her hair was growing back and no trace of ringworm. Last weekend marked 30 days on meds so they said I most likley will get her back at the end of the week. Went in on Thursday to get my cage cleaned and ready for her return. Got to see her and she looked great. Was told the Vet wants her to stay on the meds for another 30 days so they need to keep her. Daughter was looking at their other piggies and fell in love with one of them. Against my better judgement, and because we wanted Butterscotch to have a buddy and because I had this $150 gift card that I needed to use up, I agreed to get Piggy (broken link removed) (Shirley).

All was well. Shirley was super sweet and cute. Pooping and peeing a lot. Eating hay like it was going out of style. Loving her two servings of romain lettuce each day (one in the morning and one at night), but noticed she really wasn't eating much of her Oxbow pellets - eating it, but very little of it. Definately not eating it like Wilma did. She was a piggie (no pun intended). Shirley would even repond when we'd call her and after a few minutes of "talking" to her, she'd come out of her hiding spot and come over to us. We waited 3 days to touch her or take her out of the cage to help reduce her stress from the move. She was active and when we finally took her out, she had a blast running on the couch between my daughter and husband and playing on our laps (or just sitting there allowing us to pet her). She was very curious and seemed to love the attention we were giving her.

On Sunday (3 days after getting her), I noticed she wasn't eating much of her lettuce, but was still eating her hay and I saw her eating her pellets. She was drinking as usual. I spot cleaned her cage, added new bedding, dumped her pellets and gave her fresh ones, and added more hay to her holder. By 8 pm, I noticed she wasn't as active as she was in the previous days. Also noticed there were only 4 pellets of poop since I cleaned her cage several hours earlier. I picked her up to hold her before I went to bed and she seemed SAD for a lack of better words. Also noticed she didn't touch any of her evening lettuce either.

Yesterday, I worked from home and when I went to get her out, she whimpered and whined, jerked around and seemed lathargic. I whipped out my syringe and started giving her water to keep her hydrated. Called my Vet and got in soon after. Vet said her heart and lungs sounded good but her belly was disended (is that the word?). He said he could feel the poop in her intestines backing up and said she was constipated/had a blockage. Told me she probably wasn't getting enough fiber in her diet to keep things moving along. I couldn't believe it. Told him she was eating romaine lettuce twice a day, plus all her hay. Then he said she might not have been used to the good food and it backed her up. He implied they get the bare minimum at pet stores. Gave me an antibiotic for any possible bacteria infection that was caused from the constipation, something to help move things along, some Oxbow critical care and he told me to give her fresh squeezed pineapple juice (has enzymes in it to help get things moving). Luckily, I am a juicer and had a pineapple on my counter. Then he gave her some pain meds at the office before we left - she was in a lot of pain.

I did everything I was told. Held that little girl all day hand feeding her and petting her trying to make her comfortable, whcih at one point she started to refuse the food. Then she seemed to be getting better around 5 pm. 7 poops. I was so excited!!!! And she was moving around. Not much but some. I was hopeful she was on the mend. I was wrong. After those 7 poops, she didn't push out any more. Finally around 9 pm, I put her back in her cage after her last round of meds and food, and bid her good night. Woke up at 2 am this morning and had to check on her. It was a scary sight. She lay there on her side in the middle of her cage having mini convulsions and whimpering non-stop and opening and closing her mouth constantly. I swooped her up as she cried in pain, got her Critical Care, some more pineapple juice and started to feed her. She was in a massive amount of pain. She didn't take much of the food and juice so I just carressed her and told her it was okay to let go. I told her how sorry I was I couldn't help her. She laid in my arms and 2 hours later, the glimmer of light left her eye, and she took her last breath. She laid there dead in my arms. I sobbed, placed her back in her cage and went back to bed. I dreaded the thought of telling my 10 year old another one died.

How on Earth could this have happened TWICE!!! What the heck am I doing wrong? I almost don't want Butterscotch back. I'm afraid I'm going to kill her, too! Can someone please tell me what I should be doing? I thought I was doing everything right.
 

piggydaddy1

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Posts
911
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
911
Sorry for your loss. From what I have read and heard on here is that you never know how healthy a pet store guinea pig really is, plus they are very good at masking illness until it's too late. From your story, it looks like you were doing all the right things, but I would go with another lettuce then romaine as it has lots of calcium in it and can cause stones in guinea pigs.
 

Princess_Piggie

Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Posts
3,279
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
3,279
@piggydaddy1, romaine actually doesn't contain *more*calcium, it's just the case that for some unknown reason, it can cause excess excretion (which would indeed lead to stones if left unattended too long) of calcium. No one's actually sure why. If you look on the chart https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List romaine actually has the lowest calcium content off all the lettuces, surprisingly.
@Trixy, it honestly sounds like you're doing everything in your power to provide the best care for these girls. I definitely wouldn't blame you for what's happening to them! However, be prepared for Butterscotch to possibly still be ill when she comes back from the pet store vet. The vets in pet stores usually aren't entirely competent when it comes to GP care. There are exceptions of course, but if after this 2nd 30 days is up they still haven't managed to do anything, I'd ask for her back and take her to an experienced exotic specialist.
 

piggydaddy1

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Posts
911
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
911
@piggydaddy1, romaine actually doesn't contain *more*calcium, it's just the case that for some unknown reason, it can cause excess excretion (which would indeed lead to stones if left unattended too long) of calcium. No one's actually sure why. If you look on the chart https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List romaine actually has the lowest calcium content off all the lettuces, surprisingly.
@Trixy, it honestly sounds like you're doing everything in your power to provide the best care for these girls. I definitely wouldn't blame you for what's happening to them! However, be prepared for Butterscotch to possibly still be ill when she comes back from the pet store vet. The vets in pet stores usually aren't entirely competent when it comes to GP care. There are exceptions of course, but if after this 2nd 30 days is up they still haven't managed to do anything, I'd ask for her back and take her to an experienced exotic specialist.

Thanks for the correction. I knew there was a reason so I guess I was only half
right.
 

Princess_Piggie

Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Posts
3,279
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
3,279
No problem. You really would assume a veg that causes calcium issues would have higher calcium content, so you can't really be blamed for thinking so haha.
 

Trixy

Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Posts
12
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
12
Oh CRAP!! Why did I use romaine? I knew to use green or red leafy lettuce - that's what I used for Wilma and Butterscotch. UGH! I hope that's not what caused her death. My husband thinks I over fed her. Is that possible? I gave her a small handful of lettuce in the morning and another at night. One day she got a baby carrot (part of it) and on Sunday, I gave her a slice of a strawberry (which she only took a couple bites of it). That's all....I was introducing food slowly.

Thank you for your replies and condolences. I am worried Butterscotch will have a whole host of problems I am unaware of when I get her back. I've checked the rescues near me and there are no GP's up for adoption. I will keep checking back, although my husband is convinced I am doing something wrong...making me feel even crappier than I already do. I think my daughter is also blaming me for her death. I think I need to see how Butterscotch is when we get her back before getting any more from a rescue or humane society.

Again, thanks for your input and encouragment that it wasn't my fault.
 

Trixy

Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Posts
12
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
12
@Princess_Piggy - the pet store actually takes them to a vet around the corner from my house. I'm not sure if they are good or not, I use a different one - have heard great things about the one I use.
 

bpatters

Moderator
Staff member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Posts
29,262
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
29,262
I'm sorry about your pigs.

And I think your heart was in the right place with taking them to the vet, but most vets don't know anything about small exotic animals. Guinea pigs don't get "backed up" from good food. I think your pig had bloat, and your vet had no idea how to treat it.

If you decide to get more guinea pigs, please get them from a rescue or a shelter, and don't buy them. Pet shop pigs are bred and housed in abominable conditions. The amazing thing is that more of them don't die. Additionally, any vet supplied by a pet store is not likely to be an exotic vet. You need a vet of your own choosing, and pigs that are at least guaranteed to be healthy when you adopt them, which is what a reputable rescue will do.
 

Princess_Piggie

Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Posts
3,279
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
3,279
If anything you 'under'fed (though most definitely not to the point of death!). Pigs need 1 cup of veg each per day, which should have lettuce and bell pepper as their staple veg, mixed with other things like carrot, tomato, zuchini etc for variety. Again, I want to make it clear, your diet is pretty much guaranteed not the cause of death. I'm just telling you this so as you know you can feed more than what you currently are when Butterscotch returns. Take a look at https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List to give them a lovely mixed diet :)

Also - you had Wilma only a few days before she passed, correct? No amount of under/over feeding could kill in that space of time. It was most likely something that she'd developed in the breeding mill or pet store, or an internal birth defect.

I really, truly don't want you to be blaming yourself for this. Losing a pet is hard enough without blaming yourself (and having others blame you).
 

Rywen

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Posts
3,952
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
3,952
I am very sorry for your losses, what a horrible experience. It's true what other posters are saying, pet store piggies are often ill when you buy them and it sounds like she had bloat and the vet didn't treat it correctly. Also, I've never heard of keeping a piggie for 60 days to treat ringworm, most people treat it at home with Monistat and 60 days of treatment sounds excessive. There's also an antifungal shot some vets give that would hasten its clearing up. I suggest getting Butterscotch back and taking her to an experienced exotics vet for treatment. If you need help finding an exotics vet let us know and we can point you to some resources.
 

Trixy

Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Posts
12
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
12
If anything you 'under'fed (though most definitely not to the point of death!). Pigs need 1 cup of veg each per day, which should have lettuce and bell pepper as their staple veg, mixed with other things like carrot, tomato, zuchini etc for variety. Again, I want to make it clear, your diet is pretty much guaranteed not the cause of death. I'm just telling you this so as you know you can feed more than what you currently are when Butterscotch returns. Take a look at https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List to give them a lovely mixed diet :)

Also - you had Wilma only a few days before she passed, correct? No amount of under/over feeding could kill in that space of time. It was most likely something that she'd developed in the breeding mill or pet store, or an internal birth defect.

I really, truly don't want you to be blaming yourself for this. Losing a pet is hard enough without blaming yourself (and having others blame you).

Thanks! I'm guessing it was about a cup of lettuce per day, minus the other stuff. Good info to have for when Butterscotch returns. Thank you! Yes, I only had Wilma for 7 days when she got sick (but I mistook it for loneliness b/c I just seprated the two because of the ringworm - didn't want her to get it, too). She died on day 9 or 10 after getting her. :-(
@Rywen - the pet store guy never heard of 60 days either and did not want to keep her any longer because he hates how small of a cage they keep her in while treating her. He confessed he didn't really like this vet they take their animals too.

My Vet is an exoctic animal vet. I have nothing to compare to. :-(
 

Princess_Piggie

Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Posts
3,279
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
3,279
Don't worry, you've gained valuable experience from this mistake (because that's all it is, I mistake) that you can use to give Butterscotch an amazing life.

Your personal vet is an exotics vet you mean? Not the pet store vet? If your personal vet is an exotic, you should take Butterscotch to them :)
 

PiggieWigglies

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Posts
1,508
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
1,508
Im so sorry for all 3 of your losses. Please if you consider getting more pigs, get them from a rescue or shelter or craigslist. Piggies from petstores are often sick, it wasn't your fault. Petstores are just stupid like that.
 

ClemmyOddieIndy

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Posts
952
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
952
What antibiotic did your vet give Shirley?
 

Soecara

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Aug 18, 2012
Posts
1,985
Joined
Aug 18, 2012
Messages
1,985
Called my Vet and got in soon after. Vet said her heart and lungs sounded good but her belly was disended (is that the word?). He said he could feel the poop in her intestines backing up and said she was constipated/had a blockage. Told me she probably wasn't getting enough fiber in her diet to keep things moving along. I couldn't believe it. Told him she was eating romaine lettuce twice a day, plus all her hay. Then he said she might not have been used to the good food and it backed her up. He implied they get the bare minimum at pet stores. Gave me an antibiotic for any possible bacteria infection that was caused from the constipation, something to help move things along, some Oxbow critical care and he told me to give her fresh squeezed pineapple juice (has enzymes in it to help get things moving). Luckily, I am a juicer and had a pineapple on my counter. Then he gave her some pain meds at the office before we left - she was in a lot of pain.

To me it sounds like bloat, do you know the name of the medications she was given? In this particular case I question the prescription of antibiotics as they can be quite harmful to the gut bacteria of a guinea pig so if an intestinal issue is suspected I would not expect them to be given unless a faecal test showed positive for harmful bacteria. If the guinea pig is in a situation where it is not pooping and the stomach is distended then I would expect the vet to treat this issue first with a motility drug, then further explore the issue when the situation is less critical.

I have personally battled bloat with several guinea pigs, and I have lost one (my first guinea pig) to it. I have now learnt to notice when they get bloated and have some infant simethicone liquid on hand, as soon as I notice a gas build up I give them 1/2 a paediatric dose then sit there with an electric toothbrush vibrating against the underside of their stomach to try and help break up the gas bubbles. If they have not improved quite dramatically in half an hour then I get them into the vet immediately, but I have only needed to do this twice.

One thing you did that could have potentially made the situation slightly worse was force feeding her, if a guinea pig is not pooping from either GI stasis or bloat then force feeding can make the issue worse as you are putting more food in but it isn't coming out the other end, making the stomach distend even further causing more pain. You should however keep them hydrated until they start pooping, so syringing water is necessary. In a GI stasis/bloat situation a vet needs to give a motility drug which should take effect quite quickly, seeing as the vet either didn't give such a drug or the drug did not take effect then this was not your fault at all. I hope this does not discourage you from offering other guinea pigs such a lovely home, as you seem to care for them very much.

Here are some links you might find useful for your future with Butterscotch. https://www.guinealynx.info/emergency.html https://www.guinealynx.info/common_mistakes.html https://www.guinealynx.info/medications.html
 

madrae

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Posts
224
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
224
I am not understanding why Butterscotch is "on meds" for ringworm for 60 days. 60 days seems an awful long time to me. I have treated fungal infections topically, but not with oral meds, is that a common length of treatment?
 

Tarams

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Posts
157
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
157
So sorry for your losses. I don't think there is anything you could possibly have done to cause their death, sounds like a case of really bad luck, likely stemming from poor breeding practices. Sadly these sickos who breed for profit and sell their pigs to pet stores have little, if any, concern for their well being, other than how much money they can make off them. I would strongly suggest contacting the head office of the pet store, and demand that they look into the breeder who is selling them animals in poor health. And insist that they get back to you to with an answer. Please don't blame yourself, sounds like you did everything you could to try to save them. Remind hubby how sad you are, and that he should be supporting, rather than blaming you. Take care, and be kind to yourself.
 

foggycreekcavy

Moderator
Cavy Gazer
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Posts
5,899
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
5,899
I would not leave Butterscotch there for another month. There's no reason you can't administer the medication to her.

I, too, think it sounds like bloat. I wouldn't give a pig pineapple--it contains a lot of sugar which is gas producing.

I'm sorry for your losses.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.

Similar threads

Top