Herbs Basil vs Parsley: Nutrition Chart

You may be right. I don't feed either one of them to my pigs, since one of them has had stones.

bpatters said:

You may be right. I don't feed either one of them to my pigs, since one of them has had stones.

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One of mine has a sensitive bladder/tummy and had some issues with crystals, but we've determined it might actually be due to the fact that their diet had a reverse Ca ratio, or too little calcium, which caused a build up of phosphorus crystals (that sound horribly uncomfortable!) rather than the calcium itself, so I'm considering options for increasing their calcium intake, but many either a) cause gas or b) have a high oxalic acid content (or c) they don't like eating it!). Therefore, I'm looking at basil as an option, but am confused by the categorisation and obviously don't want to feed them anything that would be bad!

I stay away from them, too. I look for lower calcium veggie choices.

@pinky Yes, I used to stay away from them too, and I only fed lower calcium veggie choices - lettuce, peppers, cucumber, cherry tomatoes, and coriander. That sort of thing. However, I found this rather interesting post on The Guinea Pig Forum where an experienced guinea pig owner used to feed pretty much exactly the same menu I was feeding, but when the Ca ratio was calculated, it was WAY off, which made her change her menu with great results (after some tweaking for bloaty pigs). GuineaLynx also recommends a balanced Ca ratio for bladder stone pigs, as too little calcium compared to phosphorus results in pretty much equally horrific results for the bladder, but also for other body systems (bones being the obvious one). So, for now, I'm trying them on a diet including dill and basil (as these don't seem to have potential for other unwanted side effects - oxalates, bloat, too high Vit A...) in limited amounts to balance things out, but keeping it on the lower end of the calcium intake and Ca ratio (I'm at about 1.2 or so:1) and monitoring urine output to see if that helps things. I find that guinea pigs are sometimes a constant learning adventure!

@Party Guineas

I don't understand the ratio at all, like, at all, but one of my pigs urine has been white and powdery, which I know is normal but shows they are excreeting too much calcium

Basically, I want help making a menu that would be good with the ratio for them but I don't understand it at all I have read guinealynx that you talked about and heard about doing the ratio and how it helps them excreet less calcium, but now that I have cut all the high calcium foods from their diet I feel they aren't getting enough, or at the very least they are not getting enough variety of veggies, cause their favorites like carrot and cilantro are high calcium but I can't figure out how to balance so that my babies don't get stones or anything nasty like that.

Is there any way you could dumb it down for me so that I could maybe start a diet like that for them too? ^^;

I don't pay a lot of attention to the Ca ratio. There may be some pigs for whom it's important, but I'm no so sure about others. There's a school of thought that it doesn't matter as much for herbivores as it does for animals that eat things other than plants.

@Kiyisha, why do you say that carrots are high in calcium? Carrots are lower in calcium than almost every other vegetable. What did you cut out of your pigs' diet in order to get rid of calcium?

I have a stone pig, so both mine are on a low calcium diet. But they still get red or green leaf lettuce, carrots, belgian endive, radicchio, young green beans, summer squash, tomatoes, bell peppers, corn husks and silks when I can get them, and occasional fruit. There are lots of low calcium foods you can feed. See https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List for the specific nutritional values in many vegetables and fruits.

@bpatters honestly I think a lot of it is that I'm afraid even 30cal or whatever that it says for carrots was too much idk, I just got really scared when I started seeing the white urine, how often can they have carrots and still be ok? I didn't and don't want to cut them out the boys just love them so much

currently i feed them bell pepper, tomato, green leaf lettuce, carrots occasionally now (they got some yesterday but before I had cut them out completely) green beans, corn occasionally if i can find it, fruit maybe once a month, cucumber a couple times a week, broccolli once a month or so

I guess a better question would be, what is TOO much calcium per veggie? I see you saying that carrots are ok, so I would love to put that back in their diet, but they LOVE cilantro, if I were to give them that which i KNOW is high in calcium, how much should i give them per piggy?

@Kiyisha It's not terribly hard once you get the hang of it - it's really a matter of choosing things that your guineas like/will eat (some 'good' choices, like celery and green beans, are rejected by mine, for example) and feeding things that can cause problems either not at all, if your guineas won't tolerate it, or very sparingly (these include veggies with high Vit A, oxalates, brassicas that can cause gas - brassicas are things like cabbage, broccoli, Wikipedia has a good list). You want to keep the Ca ratio between 1.33 and 2:1, but 1.33 is ideal, especially if yours are prone to bladder issues - mine is at 1.2:1, which keeps it close and keeps the calcium at a low-ish level. If your guinea pigs have calcium problems, you'll want to pick things from the nutrition chart (https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List) that don't have too high of a calcium content (Ca).

Ca just means a balance between calcium and phosphorus, so, for example, if there are 34 mg of calcium and 34 mg of phosphorus, the ratio would be 1:1, if double the calcium than phosphorus, 2:1, etc.

https://www.guinealynx.info/diet_oxalic.html gives you an idea of things that have high oxalic acid content, you don't want to feed too many foods that have a high amount. https://www.guinealynx.info/chart.html on this link, there is an Excel calculator where you can input the amount of different types of vegetables in grams and have the Ca ratio calculated. Generally about 5-10 grams of each vegetable are fed per pig, and a mixture of about 5-7 different kinds, I find is a nice variety for each day. You can just weigh up the food one day and see how much you feed and adjust amounts as necessary. For example, I feed about 90g lettuce (two handfuls) and 60g bell pepper (half a pepper) along with other things each day (I have four guineas). You also want to aim for 10-30 mg of Vit C per kg of guinea daily for good health. The calculator helps you keep an eye on how much calcium and Vit C you're feeding, which is great.

To balance Ca, if you feed veggies with an inverse or low Ca ratio (<1:1, for example, 0.5:1), this will bring down your overall ratio. If you feed things with high Ca (2:1, for example), this will bring up your ratio. Generally speaking, you want about 2-3 'high' foods and 2-3 from the low/inverse range. Anything 1:1 or approximately 1:1 will keep the overall ratio the same. There is no general guidance on the total amount of calcium a guinea pig 'needs' or what is 'too much,' unfortunately, so it's a bit a matter of trial and error. However, GuineaLynx does give a link to nutritional requirements for lab animals, which gives requirements per kg of food, but you'll definitely not be feeding a kg of food to any guinea pig in any day! I just used it as a general guide to calculate how much calcium I'd give compared to that total amount and came under the guideline in order to limit their calcium intake to prevent stones, but still have enough to not cause any calcium deficiencies.

Sorry for the long response, but I hope that's helpful! Please feel free to PM me if you want more info, help, or specifics - I've been spending too much time researching this over the past few months (alongside my actual research for my degree - research is my middle name right now!), so if it helps someone other than me, all the better!

Kiyisha said:

@bpatters honestly I think a lot of it is that I'm afraid even 30cal or whatever that it says for carrots was too much idk, I just got really scared when I started seeing the white urine, how often can they have carrots and still be ok? I didn't and don't want to cut them out the boys just love them so much

currently i feed them bell pepper, tomato, green leaf lettuce, carrots occasionally now (they got some yesterday but before I had cut them out completely) green beans, corn occasionally if i can find it, fruit maybe once a month, cucumber a couple times a week, broccolli once a month or so

I guess a better question would be, what is TOO much calcium per veggie? I see you saying that carrots are ok, so I would love to put that back in their diet, but they LOVE cilantro, if I were to give them that which i KNOW is high in calcium, how much should i give them per piggy?

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A baby carrot per day is fine per pig. Coriander (cilantro!) is also ok to give, it's not super high in calcium. I this to mine every day - about 20-25 grams for four pigs. As for how much is too much, see my other post.

@bpatters wowwwwwwwww that helped me so much, it's like, that feeling in school you got as a kid when the lightbulb kicked in!!! Thank you for explaining to me now I understand soooooooooo much better lol, I give my boys about half a pepper to share, do you give yours half a pepper each or is that for all 4 to share??

Ugh I need a kitchen scale though, I was going to get one for the boys then money issues kicked in, things are sorting out now and I know they are only like 10 bucks on amazon so when we can afford it I will get one, I need it to weigh the boys anyway!!! That will definitely make it easier for me, I do about 3 or 4 big leafs of green leaf a day, that is at night before bed though daily they get half a tomato and half a bell pepper to share and then depending on the day i switch in the other stuff, but knowing I can put carrot back in there will be nice, I will have to get some baby carrots, fortuntely they are one of the veggies that keep VERY well

how much cilantro do you guys do? one sprig each? a couple sprigs each? with no way to weigh it's hard for me to tell how much is what, I will talk to hubby about getting me a scale asap!

Kiyisha said:

@bpatters wowwwwwwwww that helped me so much, it's like, that feeling in school you got as a kid when the lightbulb kicked in!!! Thank you for explaining to me now I understand soooooooooo much better lol, I give my boys about half a pepper to share, do you give yours half a pepper each or is that for all 4 to share??

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Not sure if you're asking me or bpatters, but I give mine a half to share between four per day. I used to give them 1.5 to share between four per day, but with the addition of other foods to balance the ratio, I removed some pepper, but they still get toward the upper end of the Vit C requirement. For cilantro, about a handful for four - I have hands on the small side.

@bpatters The ratio is most useful for guineas with sensitive systems, like bladder issues and other similar conditions (cystitis, renal issues, etc). It's a more specific way of making sure their meals are balanced in order to prevent against an inverse ratio, which can cause problems, like crystal formation. Stones are not only caused by excess calcium, but also excess phosphorus. There is a saying in animal science, "as goes phosphorus, so goes calcium," or something like that, which means for each unit of phosphorus that is ingested, this must be matched by the same amount of calcium for the phosphorus to be absorbed into the body. Thus, if there isn't enough calcium and there is an inverse ratio, there could be an excess build up of phosphorus, which can cause issues aside from the issues caused by a lack of calcium (bone/dental problems). But obviously, with non-sensitive guineas, a balanced, varied diet with things fed in moderation is just fine. I happen to be blessed with some sensitive souls! If you already know all of this, my apologies!

@Party Guineas I was just asking anyone in general I'm down for learning lol I talked to hubby he seems happy we can switch up the veggies too, we don't like feeding them the same thing all the time!! I will try to work out a system that allows for less pepper and same amount of vitamin C too because I would like to give them more of a variety, it's more fun for me lol I'm just glad the lightbulb went on and I understand all of this now and can look into actually planning a real menu for them, I felt like they were lacking I just didn't know what, now I feel like they are lacking calcium! I guess it was a good accident that we got them alfalfa pellets instead of timothy hay and didn't realize til it was too late, the pellets have made up for the calcium i have been not giving them I feel bad, but at least I can correct this mistake, fortunately they are still under a year old, while it's not advised to give them alfalfa after 6months, my mistake of taking away their calcium veggies is at least somewhat corrected and now I can correct it properly!!

That calculator from GuineaLynx was a godsend for me. I put in what I was feeding them (the old diet) then just played around with some new figures and amounts for new and old foods to see how things worked out with the 1 cup per guinea/Vit C/Ca ratio in mind. It was very helpful - my partner loved the maths aspect of it - he's into that sort of thing. If you want any guidance on it or want to know what I'm feeding for some ideas, please feel free to send me a personal message. Happy to help.

@Party Guineas I will for sure!! When I can get the scale situation sorted out and properly measure their veggies I will start really working at getting thema good diet, I sware these pigs eat so much better than my hubby and I lol but I really want to make sure they live long happy and healthy lives and I know fresh veggies are a huge importance, we started that almost right away but the ratio thing always confused me until today, now at least I know I can sort out a proper diet for them and eliminate the fear of calcium, I was truly scared to feed them calcium foods and it's nice to have that fear gone lol

Kiyisha said:

@Party Guineas I will for sure!! When I can get the scale situation sorted out and properly measure their veggies I will start really working at getting thema good diet, I sware these pigs eat so much better than my hubby and I lol but I really want to make sure they live long happy and healthy lives and I know fresh veggies are a huge importance, we started that almost right away but the ratio thing always confused me until today, now at least I know I can sort out a proper diet for them and eliminate the fear of calcium, I was truly scared to feed them calcium foods and it's nice to have that fear gone lol

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It's really all about the balance and feeding in moderation. You can feed a 'low calcium' diet, so to speak, while also maintaining a good Ca ratio. This requires at least SOME calcium in the diet, but not loads. And glad to hear that the info was of some help!

@Party Guineas, I do know what the Ca ratio is, but stick around a while and try to explain it to a jillion teenagers on this forum, and you'll be ignoring it, too!
@Kiyisha, guinea pig urine is normally milky looking. You can't get all the calcium out. But you don't want any excess, either. Carrots are fine, mine get a large baby carrot a day, and have for years. And there's way less calcium in carrots than in any of the lettuces and peppers we all feed.

To all of you -- cilantro is like romaine. In some pigs, it causes a LOT of urinary calcium. In other pigs, it doesn't. It isn't particularly high in calcium, and neither is romaine. But some pigs can't tolerate either of them without lots of calcium in the urine. For those pigs, I think it's better not to feed it to them.

@bpatters well my main concern is how much milky is ok, how do you know when is too much, they leave white residue sometimes on their litter box that dries there and I don't know whether that is normal, or considered too much but I am very thankful I can give them carrots daily, now the trick is to get Nibbles to not eat all his carrot then go steal bibbles too (yeah right x-x)

Occasional white residue is not a problem unless it's gritty. But frequent white residue means you need to do some dietary change, I think.