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Pet Stores Did anybody else see this?

MrWhistles

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Where have I said that I'm not happy with petco making changes? I've never said that! Yes it's good that they made the decision to no longer sell live animals at one of their stores but I'm not going to pat them on the back for doing that.

The 'bickering' with you has been me responding to your claims about certain things on this thread. You state your opinion as if it's fact and then when someone, such as myself, then questions you about it you then become offhand and rude and so naturally I'm then going to respond to that as I personally think there's no need for you to behave in that manner.

Yes, it is a fact. I worked in pet stores before. I left when I witnessed 1st hand animals suffering and not reciting proper care. It is also common sense as much as it is a fact. If you had a company you would look into the negative comments said about your company much more intently than the positives. You will look into the negative comments, find out why their not happy, find out what happened, and find out how to prevent more customers from having negative experiences. While the positive comments you'll quickly see, okay this person is happy because of this, do this again, do it more!.
 

mrszen5

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Unfortunately I think we have gotten totally off the point here. If a pet store chose to stop selling animals just because they maybe thought it was the right thing to do would be one thing and I would applaud that. However, this decision was made in the Johnson City NY store because of the unjustified death of these animals. They didn't step up and get them out in time, period. I don't think it should take a tragedy like this, nature related or not, to make them come to a desicion like this. There was time to get those animals out, this "area" floods or fills with water more often than not regardless of a major storm. Gander Mountain finally shut down after being flooded twice. I'm not trying to start trouble and everyone has an opinion, but this particular store did this due to the public outcry, whether they admit to it or not. If other stores followed suite (sp) and just made the decision to discontinue "selling" animals, and carried on with adoption events and such-that would be wonderful.
 

MrWhistles

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I honestly don't see how a flood that kills thousands of animals could link to "Lets stop selling small animals and start sponsoring a rescue to get them adopted out." I'm sorry, I just don't see the connection.
 

traceyennis

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Yes, I agree that a reputable company will look more intently to negative comments and try to remedy a problem but I don't believe that this applies to Petco as they have been aware for many years about pet mills and the conditions they keep their animals in yet haven't really responded to what the public and their customers want.
 

MrWhistles

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Yes, I agree that a reputable company will look more intently to negative comments and try to remedy a problem but I don't believe that this applies to Petco as they have been aware for many years about pet mills and the conditions they keep their animals in yet haven't really responded to what the public and their customers want.

Did you not see Paula's response?
Changes in companies like this don't happen overnight. They happen over a longer period. They do extensive research, talk about, test it, etc etc.
 

traceyennis

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Maybe Petco did this because they knew they needed to make a big gesture to get the public back on side after the meaningless death of all those animals and so they knew by doing this that some people would be fooled enough to think of them as doing something good and then not boycott the store.
 

traceyennis

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Yes I did read Paula's post and I also know that it takes years for changes to be made.
 

GuineaPigs98

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the turtles and fish must be super happy swimming around in that flooded store.There yelling "were free, were free!"yeah but I wish this is what all of the period and Petsmart did,because they abuse those poor animals so much before they sell them that theyre so depressed by the time you buy them you wish you hadnt.but there's always recovery and healing.mend those broken hearts ya'll!
 

Paula

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I stand by what I said. I think John Drew would have suited himself better by saying only that store and any others located in flood planes would no longer sell live pets and give the info on the group that would be doing adoptions in the store. To add that the other stores will continue to sell live animals wasn't even necessary, but obviously added so it wouldn't hurt the business of selling live animals in the others stores.
That doesn't seem like the right bone to pick. Have you ever said something you wished you hadn't, or said a little more than you'd wanted to? Not saying that's what happened here, but what he said and the way he said it is a fairly small matter in the scheme of the much bigger issue. Just stepping into their shoes for a moment, as you pointed out … The wide majority of the members here would obviously like to see the practice of selling live animals ended, self fully included. But that's not the case for everyone,certainly, and PetCo is a business and it's likely they would upset customers (potential, definitely) if they were to stop selling live animals in one fell swoop. So, the sad reality is that they need to keep those potential customers happy and willing to shop there. It isn't “us” they are concerned about – we have made it abundantly clear that we will not be their customers while they sell live animals. Viewing it from the purely emotional standpoint of the animals that died and suffer day in and day out isn't likely to provide much gain for our cause, though I realize it's difficult not to.

Yes it was a mistake not to evacuate and the loss of life is heartbreaking. Looking back in the rear view is always 20/20. I doubt very much that they chose not to evacuate simply out of disregard for those lives but rather that they underestimated the threat. It happened elsewhere, too; it happened in Katrina.

I find it exceedingly unfortunate that there's not much more focus on the animal loss of life in this disaster or any focus at all on how many animals, especially the“lesser” pet rodents that were displaced or abandoned altogether. PetCo makes notoriously bad decisions and has notoriously little regard for life. I am certainly not disputing that. But this is a good decision and I think it's counterproductive to dwell on and vilify it because of the true reason behind it or the way it was articulated in the press.

I know this forum and others like it were founded in part on the thought that these big pet stores operate like a business and focus on their bottom line at the cost of all else – not the least of which are the lives of sentient beings that deserve to be respected as such instead of the marketing ploy they are used as in these big business pet stores. I think it's important to hold on to the knowledge of that reality until (if) we're given a reason to see that they're making a true change for the better, and for the right motivations. However, to hold tight to that belief with no room for small steps toward progress when shouldn't come at the cost of disregarding the end result right now (ceasing live animal sales in *some* stores). To me, in the end, ceasing live animal sales IS something we'd like to see, so to dismiss this small progress when the alternative is no positive change at all seems in my mind, like I said, counterproductive.
 
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pinky

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Paula, you're entitled to your opinion but so am I. Once again, I stand by what I wrote. Complacency leads to apathy. If you look the other way when there's something wrong, you're as good as part of the problem. The only thing that will put an end to or reduce pet mill animals being sold in pet stores is for individuals to hit the stores that sell them in the pocket book by not patronizing those stores. Deciding not to sell animals in a store where hundreds died is something that had to be done and probably was done because of the uproar from the public. A step towards progress will come when Petco stops the sale of small animals in their other stores.
 

MrWhistles

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Okay so I guess you're dwelling on every single thing you've done wrong?
 

Paula

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The only thing that will put an end to or reduce pet mill animals being sold in pet stores is for individuals to hit the stores that sell them in the pocket book by not patronizing those stores.
I couldn't possibly agree more. However, that's been the “plan of attack” for quite some time now and the relatively small group of us willing and able to do it doesn't seem to be making much headway. I am of the opinion that they might actually take notice if they were to encouraged and supported in this recent decision to suspend animal sales in some stores instead of continuing to receive criticism for doing the one thing we've seemingly been after them do do for some time, no matter how small the scale and no matter how tragic the reason. The motivation for that is neither complacence nor apathy. Criticizing every decision made because it's not the complete and total end-result you'd ultimately hoped for isn't likely to affect any positive change, either.
 

pinky

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I couldn't possibly agree more. However, that's been the “plan of attack” for quite some time now and the relatively small group of us willing and able to do it doesn't seem to be making much headway. I am of the opinion that they might actually take notice if they were to encouraged and supported in this recent decision to suspend animal sales in some stores instead of continuing to receive criticism for doing the one thing we've seemingly been after them do do for some time, no matter how small the scale and no matter how tragic the reason. The motivation for that is neither complacence nor apathy. Criticizing every decision made because it's not the complete and total end-result you'd ultimately hoped for isn't likely to affect any positive change, either.
.

I think there's a much better chance of putting an end to pet mills animals sales through persistence..... and no one said anything about criticizing every decision Petco made or did I miss something? I still stand by what I said.
 

Paula

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I think there's a much better chance of putting an end to pet mills animals sales through persistence..... and no one said anything about criticizing every decision Petco made or did I miss something?
How does supporting a single decision made not to sell live animals from pet mills in some stores mean relenting in your persistence to see the sales of live animals stopped in every store?

For the life of me I don't see how, unless the only thing you're actually persisting in is having a problem with every decision they make if and until they take the monumental (and unlikely) step of halting animal sales altogether, and for reasons you approve of.
 

pinky

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How does supporting a single decision made not to sell live animals from pet mills in some stores mean relenting in your persistence to see the sales of live animals stopped in every store?

For the life of me I don't see how, unless the only thing you're actually persisting in is having a problem with every decision they make if and until they take the monumental (and unlikely) step of halting animal sales altogether, and for reasons you approve of.

I think we have to just disagree on this one. I don't think the decision to stop selling animals at those stores had anything to do with the fact that the dead animals were "pet mill" animals. It was a business and marketing decision that had to do with animals dying due to negligence and they couldn't risk it happening again without it impacting their business and ultimately, their profits. They're trying to save their neck. It's two completely different issues and I don't believe their view on selling pet mill animals has changed. If and when they make a decision to stop the sales, I'll support them.
 

Paula

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I don't think the decision to stop selling animals at those stores had anything to do with the fact that the dead animals were "pet mill" animals. It was a business and marketing decision that had to do with animals dying due to negligence and they couldn't risk it happening again without it impacting their business and ultimately, their profits. They're trying to save their neck. It's two completely different issues and I don't believe their view on selling pet mill animals has changed.
Of course it hasn't. Of course they didn't make the decision for any regard for the life that was lost or those that might be spared from living tragic lives in miserable conditions, sold as merchandise. I've not once disputed that or thought it was. I still think it's a good thing that there are a few less PetCos selling live animals, like I said in the beginning, however tragic and misguided the impetus. I fail to see how regarding that as a "good thing" means suddenly supporting the practice of the mills and the selling and suspending one's persistence to see the practice ended once and for all. I'd like to think that this might be a permanent decision for these stores rather than a fad that will fade when the tragedy has been forgotten, and the more support they get for suspending sales, I have to think the more likely it is to be a permanent change for those stores rather than a passing move that will lift when people forget, which they are wont to do. The more criticism they receive for the reason they chose to suspend animal sales instead of support and encouragement for doing it at all, the more likely it seems to make it a temporary solution rather than a lasting one. Perhaps if they see profits don't drop drastically in those stores where they adopt rather than sell, they might start to change their minds about selling these animals at all.

Supporting one decision doesn't mean relenting on the greater goal we'd like to see accomplished, especially when that single decision is a step in the right direction, regardless of the reasons it was or wasn't made.
 

pinky

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Of course it hasn't. Of course they didn't make the decision for any regard for the life that was lost or those that might be spared from living tragic lives in miserable conditions, sold as merchandise. I've not once disputed that or thought it was. I still think it's a good thing that there are a few less PetCos selling live animals, like I said in the beginning, however tragic and misguided the impetus. I fail to see how regarding that as a "good thing" means suddenly supporting the practice of the mills and the selling and suspending one's persistence to see the practice ended once and for all. I'd like to think that this might be a permanent decision for these stores rather than a fad that will fade when the tragedy has been forgotten, and the more support they get for suspending sales, I have to think the more likely it is to be a permanent change for those stores rather than a passing move that will lift when people forget, which they are wont to do. The more criticism they receive for the reason they chose to suspend animal sales instead of support and encouragement for doing it at all, the more likely it seems to make it a temporary solution rather than a lasting one. Perhaps if they see profits don't drop drastically in those stores where they adopt rather than sell, they might start to change their minds about selling these animals at all.

Supporting one decision doesn't mean relenting on the greater goal we'd like to see accomplished, especially when that single decision is a step in the right direction, regardless of the reasons it was or wasn't made.

All we can do is hope they stop selling live animals but I still stand by everything I said.
 

mufasa

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The death of all those animals is horrifying, but sometimes it takes a horrifying situation, and even the loss of life, to make lasting change. I hate to say it, but the vast majority of those small animals would probably have ended up with a bad end anyway. How do you think most pets purchased at stores end up? A lucky few might make it to a rescue or be given away to someone who cares for them, but most languish in tiny cages and slowly starve to death or die of illnesses caused by their living conditions. Too many people see "pocket pets" as disposable and don't give a hoot about their suffering.

Nothing will change the fact that those animals died. At least if some good comes of it, in the form of a store change in that area and then (I can only dream) in wider corporate policy, they won't have died in vain.

Change is possible. We saw it with the sale of dogs and cats. Yes, that still goes on, but much, much less than in the bleak past. More and more Petcos are adopting out small animals, although I find it ironic that they do this while still selling animals too. If it weren't for the adoptions at my local Petco, who knows where Quinn would have ended up. I made it a point to express my feelings to them when I adopted her, while also mentioning (in a polite way) my opinion of animal sales. If more people adopted at Petcos instead of buying the sales animals, and if they made it clear that adoptions were the only thing that brought them to the store, perhaps sales would end.

This isn't a black or white issue. Everyone here, on both sides, has excellent points. For me, it's not about whether Petco is "good" or "bad." It's about the most likely string of events that will contribute to ending animals' misery in the long run.
 

madelineelaine

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I haven't read through everything here, but I think that the chance is a good one. Even if it's just in ONE store, so be it. Eventually, it may spread. It will show people that there are other options, that they don't need to buy an animal, that rescuing is an available option.

It could start a 'revolution' if you will. It may help to open peoples eyes a little bit more.

It is horrific that they still sell animals, I still won't buy from stores that sell animals, but at least they have responded to the situation and something good has come out of it.
 

iamsnape

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I've just read through all of these posts, and I personally think that this small step is a step in the right direction. It's terribly unfortunate that it took this tragedy to make them realise it would be best to stop selling pets at their store, and I'm sure the public know this, but them stopping sales of live animals is still something. This is what will have to happen with a lot of stores before the consider their policies. Unfortunately, the public is not as well educated in animal welfare as we would like to think and a lot of people choose to rely on pet store employees to provide them with this information. It's the truth. And hopefully this will make these people consider the option of adopting. The people that don't go online and read about it, don't pick up a book, and don't look round, because pet stores are seen as 'the norm'.

I don't think criticising this decision is beneficial. It's happened now and the reasons for it happening can't be undone. I come from a very business orientated family and I know big changes don't happen over night. It takes baby steps to make something big happen, and it also takes motivation. If PetCo receive a positive response from the public about this decision, that's definitely an incentive. Even if it's not the giant change people would hope to happen, it's a little step in the right direction, and I see that as something that people should be somewhat pleased about, despite what it took to achieve it (don't get me wrong I think it's horrific that they didn't evacuate the animals earlier, but the public also consists of a lot of individuals who don't care, and it's those individuals that buy from pet stores. If they believe the pet store made a good decision with this they will be influenced in their own way, as we are ours).
 
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