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General Confused why she has urine all over her? & calcium deposits in urine?

knj240

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I'm not sure at ALL how Mavis (we did decide on the name Mavis) has urine on her? I can see how she would get it on her underside/skirt area, well she has it on her sides and her back? She came to me already with a dingier looking coat. The only thing I can come up with is that she pees and then starts to scratch and scratches the urine up on her body? Her being white, I notice every single drop of anything on her quickly. I couldn't leave her like that so I did give her a bath, you wouldn't believe her water! It was so yellow and nasty :( I think she was covered in old urine when she came to me as her coat was already so dingy looking on her back and underside areas.
Her cage is lined with fleece, besides her little litterbox area which is carefresh ultra bedding in a cardboard shoebox, which I have noticed her sitting in quite a bit today. I know the fleece is not letting the urine sit on top of it, I took her fleece out today and washed it and to be honest I can barely tell that she has peed besides I can feel just a VERY VERY little dampness, and I can see the whitish spots (calcium deposits?) ...which I had seen mentioned on this site in passing through threads.
Any Ideas? and should I be concerned about the white stuff in her urine?
Right now I have her on the stuff that she was on in her previous home, it has all that extra junk in it and I have been watching her she only eats the red and green dyed circles and not the pellets. I was hoping to find a better price on oxbow pellets then the amount they want at my local pet store and I also didn't want to make an immediate change as shes already going through so many changes in her new home. But, looks like I might need to and ASAP!
 

kathlaaron

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Hello there ! :eek:

How long have you had Mavis ? First, if I may ask you a couple questions ?

1. How long have you had Mavis ?

2. After you gave her a MUCH needed bath, did she continue to get urine soaked all over her body, similar to when you got her ?

3. Is her urine gritty in nature ? For all piggies urine dry white....
 
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kathlaaron

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If Mavis's fur seems to always be wet she might have incontinence, which might indicate a URI ( urinary tract infection) and should be seen by a Vet who specializes in small animals. ( exotics)


https://www.guinealynx.info/normal.html#urine

When her urine dries, if it is ( feel it between your fingers) powdery, then that is good, for that is normal. If it's gritty or coarse in nature, she could have bladder sludge, which means she is getting too much calcium in her diet.

Have you had a chance to check out Ly&Pigs nutrition charts and sample daily diet menu's ?

Mavis should have plain timothy ( no alfalfa if under 6 mos. and no colored bit and pieces) hay 24/7, 1 cup of leafy greens divided into 2 meals ( ideally morning & dinnertime), fresh daily water, and 1/4 cup of PLAIN timothy pellets daily.

Here are Ly's links below for you !

https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...g-nutrition-charts-poisonous-plants-list.html

https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/diet-nutrition/24770-sample-veggie-menus.html

Until I hear back from you, I will say goodnite for now ! Hope I helped some....:)
 

kathlaaron

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Hey there:melodrama...just wanted to make a correction. I made a mistake telling you to give her 1/4 cup of pellets daily, I meant to tell you to give 1/8 cup of pellets. I have two piggies, so I am use to thinking in terms of "twos" ! Sorry about that.
 

bpatters

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@kathlaaron, all pigs' urine does not dry white.

@knj, I think you should be concerned about the white stuff in her urine, whether it's powdery or gritty. And here's why.

Your body (or the pig's) uses all the calcium it needs and then excretes the rest in the urine. Urinary tract stones are calcium compounds. It just stands to reason that calcium in the urine contributes to stone formation, although there are other factors going on, and not all pigs who excrete calcium will form stones. But why take a chance? Stones are extremely painful for the pig, as well as expensive and sometimes unsuccessful to treat.

There's been a good bit of discussion at Guinea Lynx about Oxbow pellets and stone formation. Several posters, including one who's done quite a bit of research about it, have noticed that their stone-prone pigs have more stones on Oxbow pellets than on KM or another brand. Oxbow uses a different calcium compound in their pellets than KM does, and also a different mineral mix.

There's almost certainly something else going on, as some people feed Oxbow pellets all the time and never have a problem. It may be something else in their diets, it may be something in the pig's metabolism, or a genetic disposition to stones. But if you notice white deposits in your pig's urine, you might want to switch off Oxbow and see if it makes a difference.

The same thing is true of romaine lettuce. I don't know what's different about it and other lettuce, but my pigs excrete calcium like crazy if they're fed romaine, and other people have noticed this as well. But some pigs eat romaine every day of their lives with nary a white deposit in the cage. Just watch your pig, and make dietary changes as necessary.
 

kathlaaron

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@kathlaaron , all pigs' urine does not dry white.

This is what I read on guinea lynx, if not all pigs urine drys white, then what color does it dry like ? Clear?

Here is the paragraph that I was referring to below:

NORMAL:
Urine may be clear to cloudy in color. Calcium compounds in the urine cause this cloudiness. Normal urine is not gritty in texture. Dried urine may leave powdery white calcium compounds. Very young guinea pigs often have an orange or brown tint to their urine. Urine sometimes changes to an orange color on standing (this may be the oxidation of porphyrins in the urine).

However, I see that it says "may" leave ...ect, ect..so what do other piggies dried urine look like ?
 
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kathlaaron

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I found that out too about Oxbow's pellets, and have switched to KM's !

Billie-you have me feelin a little scared now. My girls all eat very healthy well balanced meals, high quality grass hays and so on...but they definitly have white powdery deposits on their bedding from time to time. I notice it mostly during my weekly cage cleaning times. I really try to watch their calcium intakes and well as keeping their oxalic acid at a minimum.
 
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bpatters

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Normal dried guinea pig urine looks like pretty much any other dried urine -- dried clear liquid with no grit or powder in it. It may or may not leave a spot, depending on what's been peed on and what's in the urine. Some foods color urine, concentrated urine is darker, very dilute urine (as in some kidney diseases) has no color at all.

I know what Guinea Lynx says. And I also know that a principal cause of stone formation in any animal is excess calcium in the urine, and that hypercalcemia is treated in humans to reduce the likelihood of kidney disease. I just think it's a stupid risk to take to think that your pet which has excess calcium in its urine won't ultimately develop urinary tract stones.

If my pigs had powdery/gritty urine, and mine did, I'd do an elimination diet to determine what's the cause, and I did that too. I took them off everything except hay and pellets until their urine cleared up, then added back one veggie at a time (takes several days per veggie) until I got white deposits again. The culprit was romaine lettuce. I eliminated it from their diets, and have had no more problem.

Calcium metabolism is complicated -- it involves the parathyroid gland, other minerals, diet, genetics, etc. No one knows why some pigs excrete it and others do not. But it definitely signals that the pig, or human, is getting way more calcium than its body can use. It's an no-brainer to me to reduce the calcium intake in that case.
 
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kathlaaron

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Man, I always thought that this was normal, as guinea lynx suggests it is. Now I don't know what to think, because I highly respect your experience and knowledge, as I have told you on more than one occasion.

I follow Ly&Pigs sample daily diet menu's pretty closely, and thought I was giving them a well rounded healthy diet, now you have me questioning myself, on all the research that I have done here, and on guinea lynx.

So if my girls dried urine is a powdery white,(never gritty or coarse) do you feel I should be concerned ?
 

knj240

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To answer both of you:
Mavis has been with us I believe 4 full days now.
Yes, I gave her a bath and the next day she had some urine on her sides mainly. I've seen her scratch with her back legs to her back/sides and this seems to be where the urine is, once again like she pees then just kicks it up on herself. When I have her out sometimes for long periods she never pees on me or on our things, just poops where she pleases lol
She is NOT on oxbow pellets by the way she is on a cheap brand I believe with all the junk mixed in with it, she came with just enough to last me a little while and I planned to use it up while I looked for oxbow pellets.
I did not know this about Oxbow pellets, and if she may be prone to something like this then maybe KM Pellets is the best route? I am going to study the nutrition website you posted, I think bpatters has posted the same one for me but I haven't had time to study it myself, Hopefully try to come up with a good diet plan for her.
What is the best hay to order online? All the hay in bags around my area looks dreadful! I'd rather go out and pick some grass and feed it to her, but she is getting her hay, I just don't think it is as fresh as it could be.
Any good websites I can order the KM Pellets as well as some good hay together?

As far as the white stuff in her urine, it is completely powedery not gritty on any other substance when it dries. However her urine when just peed, looks almost a little sludgy?
I'm actually pretty concerned at this point.
 

knj240

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Shes already taking me on a roller coaster, but I already love her to pieces. I hope everything will be ok for her. She does seem rather small and scrawny to be around 4 months as her ex owners have said. I hope my vet can give me a clear diagnosis and have an idea of how old she really is.
 

kathlaaron

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bpatters;570075 Calcium metabolism is complicated -- it involves the parathyroid gland said:
I can understand Billie -that it is a "no-brainer" to you--who have had tons of experience with these matters. But it is not a "no-brainer" to me, and I am a fairly intelligent woman. I have come a long way and have spent a lot of time learning, and researching from these sites that we have all come to appreciate and trust.

I feel a little mad that guinea lynx calls these white powdery deposits "normal" for if they are NOT normal, I would have long ago done what YOU have done, in starting from scratch and feeding foods individually to find out the culprit myself.
 

bpatters

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There's been some discussion at Guinea Lynx about calcium, and I think that eventually the post will be changed.
 

bpatters

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@knj, hay in bags not only looks dreadful, but is way more expensive than ordering it online. And that's way more expensive than finding it locally. If you've got a feed store around, ask if they've got a good grass hay -- they should, if they sell to horse stables.

If you order it online, Kleenmama's is very good, as is Sweet Meadow and American Pet Diner. You can google those names and compare the costs.

It's possible that your pig's urine will clear up when you get her off the crappy pellets. It won't hurt to take her off the old stuff cold turkey -- she'll eventually get used to it. And Oxbow may very well be the best kind of pellets you can find locally. I'd try her on a small bag, and if she still has the powder/sludge issue, I'd switch to Kleenmama's.
 

knj240

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Thank you for all your help. I hopefully can get something ordered this evening for her. I am not going to try the Oxbow pellets, I'm just going to use the Kleenmama pellets and will start making up her a better diet and get some better hay ordered as well. I will keep you guys updated when we see the vet.
 

knj240

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Those of you who buy Kleenmama pellets/hay, do you get them from anywhere else then their website? or are they ONLY offered from their website. It will be $34.55 shipped for 10lbs pellets and 5lbs of hay, which really isn't that bad since I know the pellets will last for some time, but just wondering. I would really like to get Mavis Pellets and Hay from them and hope she will take to these new pellets, she seems kind of picky with pellet/food.

ETA: And for those of you who have read the above thread and seen her possible problems, Would this be the brand you choose pellet wise?

Thanks for all your help!
 

bpatters

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knj, as far as I know, you can only get KM products from the website.

If you've got storage room, you may want to get more hay. Five pounds will only last you maybe a couple of months, and then you'll just have to re-order. And yes, I'd recommend KM pellets -- mine have been on KM pellets ever since they got off the alfalfa ones at 6 months old.
 

knj240

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Thank you.
Also, are we not allowed to have signatures here? I had my settings set to not view signatures so I set it to where I could but still not seeing anything.
 

bpatters

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Signatures used to be discouraged -- not sure why. You could post a note in the tech support forum and ask Teresa what the current policy is.
 

knj240

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It's not a big deal, I was just wondering about them. I know most other forums have them, but I also know with a forum with so many users it would surely take up much needed space and bandwidth.
 
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