New to guinea pigs and a question

Arkin · May 27, 2016

Hi all,

I'm the brand new owner of two male guinea pigs: an abyssinian and a silkie. We adopted them a few weeks ago. They are not brothers or related, rather they were kept in separate (tiny

) cages next to each other. We named the abyssinian Moose and the silkie Link. We were told Moose is likely 1 year old, but there was no guess on Link's age. Moose seems to have a pretty spunky/curious personality, and Link is very laid back and mellow. He seems very social.

I had tried to read up as much as possible about guinea pigs before getting them and figured it might be the best chance at introducing two boars since they were already familiar with each others scents/sounds.

So onto my question - they seemed to introduce fine. There was some teeth chattering, and a lot of mounting, but nothing like some of the descriptions I read. They've been in the same cage for 2 weeks now. The problem is that the one guinea pig, Moose, seems to still try to assert his dominance. Lots of chattering at Link. no more mounting. But we saw them fly at each other two nights ago.

does this end? Should we be concerned? Link has a small bite on his cheek, and at this point I'm concerned that maybe we made a bad mistake introducing them to each other.

We have a midwest 4x2 cage with an additional 3.5 square feet added on through C&C. But it doesn't look like it'd be nearly large enough to divide if it comes to that. So we'd need to make a second level, but honestly I'm not keen on the idea of separating them to a solitary life so I'm really hoping this will get better.

Anyways, here is the cute part - Moose

And Link:

I got really excited about fleece + uhaul bedding so I made a few cage liners... sleeping pads for under their pigloos, and finally added a felt forest today haha. (there are 2 pigloos, I just took out one for the pic)

Comely Guineas · May 27, 2016

They are such a cute pair of pigs. Unfortunately, if you were expecting them to be best buds & sleeping cuddled together, that's usually not the case for males. It does not mean that you made a mistake, or that they need to be separated, it's just that males tend to be bossy and cranky. Teeth chattering will continue, probably forever, even solitary pigs will teeth chatter from time to time. My lone male pig was teeth chattering in his cage just before for no apparent reason known to me.

Anyway, I had introduced two adult males and their story is very similar to yours. One of them mounted the other constantly, rumble strutting, teeth chattering, chasing, all of that. The mounting decreased after awhile, but sometimes he would do it if the other simply got in his way to the bowl, etc. Basically, all of these behaviours are totally normal and something we just have to get used to. So to answer your question, you do not need to be concerned unless they start all out fighting and causing blood shed.

I believe your cage may be a tiny bit too small for two boars. In saying that, more space is always better, especially for boars. More space will reduce these dominant behaviours from occurring, mostly because there will be less times they come in contact. My two males were in a 2x6, which seemed perfect for them, one has since passed, leaving my lone pig in the huge 2x6 all to himself. This link may help you https://guinea-pigs.livejournal.com/3002707.html

Arkin · May 27, 2016

Thank you for the reply!

I didn't really expect them to cuddle, just everything suggested they shouldn't be alone and I wanted them to at least have a neighbor. I was just thrown off that after 2 weeks they flew at each other. I guess I had assumed that the aggression would go down, not up.

Their total cage dimensions are 2ft x 5.75 ft. Which seemed like plenty of space from everything I read - but these guinea pigs seem rather large. We already have the coroplast for a second floor, so I may have my husband start working on that next. We were using the extra grids as a "pigpen" area to let the pigs have more exercise time each day while supervised (we have cats, hence we can't just leave it open). But might be better to convert them to a loft

CavyMama · May 27, 2016

They are really adorable boys. And yes, intros with boys can be difficult. I have had to introduce 6 pairs of males and only one time did it go smoothly right away. It takes time.

The loft is fine but upper levels don't count toward square footage for the cage. Make sure the main level is large enough for two males. The loft should add extra space to the large enough main space rather than supplement the main space to create space together than is large enough. They need flat running space to be able to run laps.

As for dominance, once established who will be the boss pig, it tends to diminish with only occasional flare ups if the submissive pig tries to challenge the dominance pig or if the dominant pig just wants to remind the submissive pig who is in charge.

It sounds like you are doing everything right. It's wonderful that you did your research (you would be surprised how many don't) and that you are asking questions. That's the best way to learn. You also learn just by the every day experience of having guinea pigs.

In any case, welcome to the forum. Love the names!

bpatters · May 27, 2016

Overall, the cage is almost big enough, but it's a poor configuration. That narrow ramp offers an opportunity for them to get into each other's faces, and they don't have room to run anywhere.

I'd take that middle divider out, or better yet, take a whole side of the Midwest out and make it the kitchen, and then expand with more grids.

Arkin · May 27, 2016

bpatters said:
Overall, the cage is almost big enough, but it's a poor configuration. That narrow ramp offers an opportunity for them to get into each other's faces, and they don't have room to run anywhere.

I'd take that middle divider out, or better yet, take a whole side of the Midwest out and make it the kitchen, and then expand with more grids.

I thought the same when we set it up - that the ramp would become a point of conflict. But I wasn't sure how else to bridge the lip between the midwest and the coroplast.

What do you mean take a whole side out and make it a kitchen? Because of the way the midwest and the coroplast are at the bottom, how do I add on without a ramp? or just make a much wider/larger ramp?

bpatters · May 27, 2016

You'll have to remove either the side or the end of the cage. It's one of several reasons that I don't like Midwest cages -- you can't change the configuration very easily if you need different accommodations for your pig.

Arkin · May 27, 2016

bpatters said:
You'll have to remove either the side or the end of the cage. It's one of several reasons that I don't like Midwest cages -- you can't change the configuration very easily if you need different accommodations for your pig.

I can remove the end of the midwest - it's what is currently the barrier between the two. Would I then just make a ramp that covers the length of it?

Should I set up a second hay area? Right now we have two food dishes and water bottles, but only one hay area (though I did sew it as a bag with two holes)

Arkin · May 27, 2016

CavyMama said:
The loft is fine but upper levels don't count toward square footage for the cage. Make sure the main level is large enough for two males. The loft should add extra space to the large enough main space rather than supplement the main space to create space together than is large enough. They need flat running space to be able to run laps.

Thank you

When we set up the pigpen as an exercise area - we set it up as like a 5' x 5' area, and after an initial exploration they just go and hide. Will they start doing these laps as they get more comfortable here?

Right now, we're pretty limited on the ability to expand the floor space. It's set up in a corner of our living room that is pretty much the exact dimensions of what the cage is. Our children are too young (ages 4 and 6) to have the guinea pig cage in their room unsupervised, and well, my husband isnt' about to let me do away with our dining table and put the piggies there LOL. So I'm not sure how to expand the main floor to be larger

CavyMama · May 27, 2016

Hmmm did you say you had a c&c cage? They can be designed to be L-shaped to fit into a corner if you can't spare the floor space

Arkin · May 27, 2016

CavyMama said:
Hmmm did you say you had a c&c cage? They can be designed to be L-shaped to fit into a corner if you can't spare the floor space

It's a midwest with a c&C add on at the end. The total size is 2ft x 5.75 ft

Arkin · May 27, 2016

OK with the suggestions here I rearranged their cage a bit tonight.

I took out the dividing wall and made a makeshift ramp with a folded towel. We've been using the smaller area as a kitchen, but for tonight I wanted to try it out as a separate pig area. So each boy is on an end of the cage, with kitchen in the middle. Because the hay loft is triangular, it's taking up ramp space right now but the opening is still double the size it was.

bpatters · May 27, 2016

Definitely better. But I'd either take those pigloos out, or cut another hole in each of them. All hideys should have two doors.

Actually, what I'd do is drape fleece across the corners for hiding places and take all the stuff in the middle of the cage (not the hanging fleece) out. Mine have all loved to do "Nascar zoomies" around and around the cage, and they can't do that with furniture in the way.

Arkin · May 27, 2016

The only thing in the middle is the wooden bridge for chewing. The other thing is just the towels rolled up for a ramp til my husband figures out a better solution. I had a triangle up but nobody used it - they both prefer the full cave like feel I guess. I can have my husband cut a second hole easily enough

Arkin · May 28, 2016

If this configuration works out well, what we'll likely wind up doing is modifying the end of the midwest cage so it'll lay flat, then cut the coroplast out there. Then there wont' be a need for the ramp. I have plans to make a canopy system like the fleece forest, but circular, to see if they'd use that as a substitute for a pigloo - but I haven't gotten to making that yet (soon). They do seem calmer tonight, so that's good!

Arkin · May 31, 2016

So I'm thinking my corner hideys were just too small. I made the boys a "canopy" a couple nights ago and they adore it. It let us take out one pigloo (gotta get another embroidery hoop before I can make a second). I also realized they're able to scale the 3" wall separating the midwest from the c&c add-on, so I took out the towels that made a bridge. They love the new set up and are far far far less grumpy at each other!

Fay · May 31, 2016

I love that canopy idea @Arkin!

Arkin · May 31, 2016

Thank you! It is very easy - just strips of fleece put over an embroidery hoop. I was watching a show and wanted a no-sew option so I wouldn't have to pull out the sewing machine haha. I need to make a second. After I wash these, I'll likely sew them in place so I don't have to overlay them every time, but for now it works great

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