Pet Stores breeding machine

mortyandtrixie · Apr 20, 2013

I went to my local pet store about a month ago to get food for my piggies. The have this great food that you can scoop yourself and they charge per pound. My piggies love it!

Anyway, there was this beautiful female pig the called "big mama" who had just had a litter of pups. We googled over them for a bit and went home. About 3 weeks later we went back to get more food. All the babies were gone, but big mama looked pretty fat. I asked if she was pregnant again, not thinking it was possible since she was the only pig in het cage all the time. The store clerk (who has worked there for at least ten years) said "yes". I asked how it was possible. She said "well big mama had a husband, the father of her last litter. He was sold shortly after the pups were born. One of my daughter's friends bought him. So we have her bring him back for a day so they can have more babies since they are married." She was quite impressed with herself coming up with this idea.

I felt sick. That poor piggie was forced to get pregnant only 3 weeks after giving birth to a rather large litter. Well, I thought it was large, there was 5 or 6 pups. I feel absolutely terrible for her and she is soooo gorgeous. If I go back and by her to save her from having more litters, how big of a cage do I need and what is vet care like for a pregnant piggie? I just can't stand knowing breeding is going to be her life.

Lishar · May 2, 2013

Maybe you should... If they just keep breeding her that's just more homeless pigs!
But if she comes with you she wont have to breed anymore...

pinky · May 2, 2013

see below.

pinky · May 2, 2013

If you get her, they'll just replace her with another guinea pig and continue the cycle. Don't do it. I'd go a step further and find another source for your pet supplies and let them know that as long as they continue to breed and sell guinea pigs, you're taking your business elsewhere.

Melissa123 · May 2, 2013

That is just disgusting, it makes my stomach turn. Knowing me, I would have to get her out of that situation. Sadly, they will just replace her, as they clearly stated, they don't care about HER as an individual they just want to profit from her misery. In no time, they will have another female there. Is there another store you can buy your food from? That would break my heart if I had to see that on a monthly bases.

pearlsmom · May 2, 2013

I just had close to the same thing happen to me. But i bought her. I had to and i knew i would at least be saving one!!
the store i went to actually had many pregnant ones.....

but one very very large pregnant one. I drove an hour home and couldnt stop thinkig abt her and i knew i would feel too guilty not to!
If they will let you buy her i say go for it.

madrae · May 2, 2013

You could make some phone calls. It varies state to state, but where I live, pet stores are not allowed to intentionally breed. If it were here, I know I would have to call the State Dept. of Agriculture (which has, like, 2 overworked people that oversee/inspect all the pet stores in the state, but at least it is something).

pinky · May 2, 2013

madrae said:
You could make some phone calls. It varies state to state, but where I live, pet stores are not allowed to intentionally breed. If it were here, I know I would have to call the State Dept. of Agriculture (which has, like, 2 overworked people that oversee/inspect all the pet stores in the state, but at least it is something).

I'm not sure about that. Where did you get that information? I couldn't find anything saying it was illegal. I think pet stores can't intentionally breed ALL the pets they sell. It probably differentiates breeders from pet stores and doesn't necessarily prohibit the breeding. There are feed stores that mass breed small pets. They can probably get around it by saying it was accidental breeding. The IL Dept of Agriculture covers a lot of territory and won't step in unless there's a substantial case of animal abuse. I've contacted them before and it takes a couple of months for them to even investigate. Guinea pigs are low on their radar so I doubt that it would do any good since breeding is technically not what they consider abuse.

Ill COMP STAT § 2 : Illinois Statute - Section 2

225 ILCS 605/2) (from Ch. 8, par. 302) Sec. 2.

Following is an excerpt from Sec. 2 which doesn't prohibit breeding but clarifies what does not fall under the category of a pet store.

"However, a person who sells only such animals that he has produced and raised shall not be considered a pet shop operator under this Act, and a veterinary hospital or clinic operated by a veterinarian or veterinarians licensed under the Veterinary Medicine and Surgery Practice Act of 2004 shall not be considered a pet shop operator under this Act."

Note the word "only." Sounds like they can breed some, but not all.

RoseNRiver0523 · May 2, 2013

pinky said:
If you get her, they'll just replace her with another guinea pig and continue the cycle. Don't do it. I'd go a step further and find another source for your pet supplies and let them know that as long as they continue to breed and sell guinea pigs, you're taking your business elsewhere.

I'm going with this. I would not support that store at all.

Colorado Cavies · May 2, 2013

Oof. What a thing to see first thing in the morning.

The others are right. They would just replace her. I'm right with you and I would love to get her out of that situation but it would just happen to another pig.

This is breaking my heart right now. When I started my rescue it was because I took in 3 pregnant females from a back yard breeder that breed them back to back pretty much until they died. They were being shut down by the state because of the horrid conditions. One of the pigs was a HUGE! texel with four 1 week old babies. We called her Big Mama because she was just the biggest ball of fluff you have ever seen.

A male was in the 'cages' with the girls at all times so we knew she was most likely pregnant but we could hope right? About 6 weeks or so later she was just really lethargic when we got home. My partner thought she was already dead. She was just clinging to life and we rushed her to two emergency vets in town. The second did an ultrasound and said it looked like one of the babies had died inside her. It was killing her from the inside. We rushed her an hour away to the only place that could do a c-section but it was too late. She was too far gone and we had to let her go.

With pigs that come from this situation it's heart breaking no matter what happens. Of the three moms we took in only one survived.

foggycreekcavy · May 2, 2013

A bit off topic, but I want to comment on the food in the bin. Check to see what the ingredients are. Often the stuff they sell cheaply in bins is very poor quality. Any pellets you use should have some type of hay as the first ingredient.

MrsSuzy · May 2, 2013

@ColoradoCavies What a sad story, it put a tear (or two) in my eyes!

What a difficult situation. I would probably feel like you. That I wanted to rescue her but others are right, it will just be repeated with another piggie.

I would make sure I never bought anything from them again and would write a letter to tell them exactly why.

Inle_Rabbit · May 2, 2013

I'm conflicted on stories like this...

On the one hand don't buy her they will just replace her.

On the other hand they will replace her anyway when they think she is too old or she dies. I am reminded of the quote and I can't remember it exactly but it goes something like "I can't change the world but I can change the world for that one."

Anyway, whatever you decide to do about the pig it would still be best to find a new pet store to buy feed from.

2198lindsey · May 2, 2013

When this site says it's anti pet store, anti breeding, situations like this apply. Take a mature outlook. Realize that your money would be fueling another "big momma"'s torture. It's sad. Sure. But you know what's even sadder? The place where she came from, and the thousands of guinea pigs that go through this at any time.

Don't go get the guinea pig. If you are so stuck in adding to your herd, go to a rescue. Then you know your money will be supporting homeless pigs and not people that are mistreating pigs.

madrae · May 2, 2013

Hi @pinky ! - we are practically neighbors!

Seeing that the original poster was from another state I am unfamiliar with I attempted to be vague, and should have qualified more that there are things (loopholes) the store could be sited with. Especially if there are weird things going on with other animals in the shop. I was in a rush this morning and should have spent more time on my post.

I have had the absolute JOY of dealing with our Ag Department and a local Health Department in regards to a certain pet store (and actually, this store is in a town smack between you and me!). The store is very much on their radar for more complaints then just mine, and truth be told I lost track of the violations. And quite honestly, to me on the phone, they have admitted to taking my piggy story and extending it to the fact that there are kittens and puppies on the premises and they are often treated similar to the small animals.

Let me explain... Pet Store sells everything including dogs, cats, exotics, and small pet mammals including rabbits. All of the small mammals are kept in open square plexiglass boxes which are, of course, kid height. Customers are invited and encouraged to touch and pick up animals. Place is literally a zoo in busy hours and there is little staff supervision, meaning males and females are often put back in the wrong place. Obviously they are not taking reasonable care to keep incompatible animals separated. They also claim that small animals are from a local source (but not required to reveal unless it's the dogs), but since their source is selling animals wholesale, they would require a license.

In addition, for a separate fee, this Pet Store does "birthday parties" where not only kittens and puppies, but the small animals and birds are paraded and manhandled by little rugrats. To market these parties, the store focuses on the "educational" value, and OOPS! they are now acting as an Exhibitor, which also comes with it's own set of rules and regulations.

As many as 35 parakeets (I lost count) were placed in a 3x3 plexiglass square. Again, anyone could reach in and grab birds. Animals were clearly stressed and many were missing feathers. Could have been the handling, but a clear violation of "space" provision of the Welfare Act.

And they often "give away" animals by handing out "free hamster with purchase" coupons, which like carnivals that give animal prizes, also has separate regulations.

AND! (whew - a lot, I know) the place is filthy.

Now, throw in one of these poor piggys that gets touched and moved around unsupervised by customers has a raging case of ringworm. And now the Health Department takes notice.... and actually this is where my story starts. I first contacted the local Health Department since ringworm can be contagious and the store staff blew me off. After that, it was the Health Department inspector who did all he could but was still frustrated and asked me to join him in getting the IL DofA attention.

Again, not familiar with the poster's state, but especially if they are reluctant to sell "Big Mama" because she has a regularly visiting husband and she is obviously breeding stock for their store, there could be state laws that apply to what kind of licensing that store requires. Couldn't hurt to ask. State Ag office would be the place to start.

GuineaLoveer · May 2, 2013

This is a hard one but if I was you I would get her they may replace her its not certain But come on people are you going to let this pig suffer for the rest of her life!!!
after you get her(if you decide to) talk to the person who runs the place and try to get him to under stand what hes doing to these poor piggies!
and hurry before she gives birth or he,ll breed the pups probably

pinky · May 2, 2013

madrae said:
Hi @pinky ! - we are practically neighbors!

Seeing that the original poster was from another state I am unfamiliar with I attempted to be vague, and should have qualified more that there are things (loopholes) the store could be sited with. Especially if there are weird things going on with other animals in the shop. I was in a rush this morning and should have spent more time on my post.

I have had the absolute JOY of dealing with our Ag Department and a local Health Department in regards to a certain pet store (and actually, this store is in a town smack between you and me!). The store is very much on their radar for more complaints then just mine, and truth be told I lost track of the violations. And quite honestly, to me on the phone, they have admitted to taking my piggy story and extending it to the fact that there are kittens and puppies on the premises and they are often treated similar to the small animals.

Let me explain... Pet Store sells everything including dogs, cats, exotics, and small pet mammals including rabbits. All of the small mammals are kept in open square plexiglass boxes which are, of course, kid height. Customers are invited and encouraged to touch and pick up animals. Place is literally a zoo in busy hours and there is little staff supervision, meaning males and females are often put back in the wrong place. Obviously they are not taking reasonable care to keep incompatible animals separated. They also claim that small animals are from a local source (but not required to reveal unless it's the dogs), but since their source is selling animals wholesale, they would require a license.

In addition, for a separate fee, this Pet Store does "birthday parties" where not only kittens and puppies, but the small animals and birds are paraded and manhandled by little rugrats. To market these parties, the store focuses on the "educational" value, and OOPS! they are now acting as an Exhibitor, which also comes with it's own set of rules and regulations.

As many as 35 parakeets (I lost count) were placed in a 3x3 plexiglass square. Again, anyone could reach in and grab birds. Animals were clearly stressed and many were missing feathers. Could have been the handling, but a clear violation of "space" provision of the Welfare Act.

And they often "give away" animals by handing out "free hamster with purchase" coupons, which like carnivals that give animal prizes, also has separate regulations.

AND! (whew - a lot, I know) the place is filthy.

Now, throw in one of these poor piggys that gets touched and moved around unsupervised by customers has a raging case of ringworm. And now the Health Department takes notice.... and actually this is where my story starts. I first contacted the local Health Department since ringworm can be contagious and the store staff blew me off. After that, it was the Health Department inspector who did all he could but was still frustrated and asked me to join him in getting the IL DofA attention.

Again, not familiar with the poster's state, but especially if they are reluctant to sell "Big Mama" because she has a regularly visiting husband and she is obviously breeding stock for their store, there could be state laws that apply to what kind of licensing that store requires. Couldn't hurt to ask. State Ag office would be the place to start.

Frankly, I think the IL Dept of Agriculture has way too much on their plate since they also oversee agriculture and meat and poultry inspection. Petland is still up and operating which says a lot. The impression I got from the inspector I spoke with was that exotics don't carry as much weight as dogs and cats when it comes to pets. When you read the animal welfare laws, you'll notice a lot of them actually state "dogs and cats" or "reptiles." It usually takes a hoarding situation with press coverage or a situation where there is risk to human health like ringworm or rabies to get something done and that's usually local animal control or the health dept that gets in involved. Breeding small animals in cramped quarters is not something they'll get involved with.

2198lindsey · May 2, 2013

I find this to be an ignorant response. People like you are the reason that pigs sit in mills and get back bred living in their own poop and never seeing a green veggie or hay in their entire life. Sometimes even being eaten by other guinea pigs that are starving because they don't get adequate food.

It's sad that this pig has to suffer, but if it's so that we can start showing the pet stores that we will not put up with the mistreatment of animals, then it needs to be done. Do your research before you say so lightly "sure they may replace her". I've watched videos that have made me bawl at the terrible conditions that these animals have to live in and you're going to sit there and tell me that it's no big deal? That this ONE sow's life means more than the tens of thousands that go through torture every day?

GuineaLoveer said:
This is a hard one but if I was you I would get her they may replace her its not certain But come on people are you going to let this pig suffer for the rest of her life!!!
after you get her(if you decide to) talk to the person who runs the place and try to get him to under stand what hes doing to these poor piggies!
and hurry before she gives birth or he,ll breed the pups probably

GuineaLoveer · May 2, 2013

Put yourself in her shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!
yea now would you leave her to suffer!!! its not my fault that people miss treat them!
ow and im sorry did I not want a anther pig to suffer! is that a problem!!!

pinky · May 2, 2013

GuineaLoveer said:
Put yourself in her shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!
yea now would you leave her to suffer!!! its not my fault that people miss treat them!
ow and im sorry did I not want a anther pig to suffer! is that a problem!!!

You have to look at the big picture. If 5 people walk into that store with the same mindset you have, 5 more guinea pigs will replace her place in no time. 50 people come in... same thing. Multiply that by all the stores that do the same thing and think about the numbers. It's not just one guinea pig... If no one goes in that store, the store will no longer turn a profit and will either shut down or stop breeding and selling guinea pigs once they realize that people won't do business there. There are guinea pigs all over in that same predicament because people like you decide to buy them or encourage others to. Are you willing to buy all of them? Of course not. Don't patronize the stores that do that so they stop. If you go into those stores, let them know that you won't be returning until they stop.

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Pet Stores breeding machine

mortyandtrixie

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Lishar

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pinky

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Melissa123

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