C&C Cage design ideas!

LuvCavysLuvCats said:

@Lovecavy13 I don't think I've met or heard of a guinea pig that likes to be picked up haha most people shew them into a cuddle sack and just scoop them up to make it less stressful for them and easier on you. My Penelope LOVES to be held and cuddled but she HATES being picked up. Lol so I use the cuddle sack to get her out unless she just keeps dodging it. You gotta be ninja about it sometimes.

Also when I say lap time, it doesn't necessarily have to be on your lap lol I do it laying down and have them on my chest in a cuddle sack... Well Maybelline is in a cuddle sack, Penelope is the weird one that isn't scared of anything as long as I'm holding her and has loved to cuddle and give kisses since the day I got her. Haha but they both like to cuddle around my neck :3 makes me so happy hehe. Also I like to have them really close to my face because Penelope loves to give me kisses on her own (I give her PLENTY of kisses back too ) and... I love to smother Maybellne with kisses too even though she doesn't exactly love it. lol She does like her head rubbed though so if I go back and forth with my lips and then give a quick soft smooch in between, she doesn't seem to mind too much. Haha

Piggies are adorable furry little things with HUGE personalities, each with their own likes and dislikes. It's so much fun and so cute to watch. :3 I just love them to bits.

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I used to love when puddles cuddled on my neck but he bit me once really ear my collar none so I don't allow him anywhere near my neck anymore. To scared xD

Lovecavy13 said:

Not to be rude but where exactly are you getting your information from. My pig gets excited and popcorns everywhere when the other pig comes in. And the other guinea pig purrs. They never bicker or fight. If I just stopped putting them together both pigs would probably get upset. I love my little guy and until I have the cage done (because there's no way I'm putting them both into that tiny little cage) he needs to be around other guinea pigs.

Not only that but I know a lot if other people that have guinea pigs in separate cages because they don't get along together all day (or are opposite genders) but when they bring them outside and they all get along perfectly well.

Plus I approved it by my vet. (She is exotically trained) she said it was fine..

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I don't think it's rude to ask where people's info is coming from, I think it's really important. Otherwise it's all just everybody's opinions and how do we know who to believe? No one answered the question, either. This isn't religious doctrine to be handed down and accepted without question by us newbies. This is animal husbandry. It's science.

So we have people saying never do piggy playdates because it's stressful... and everybody says piggies shouldn't be alone... and two piggies who are together often (it sounds like daily) and get along fine... without some actual evidence to the contrary I can't see any reason to stop the playdates. And if your piggy does start acting depressed, Lovecavy, I'd say see if a playdate helps. Not all stress is bad, after all.

Please don't take this wrong, I certainly appreciate the advice from more experienced owners like @LuvCavysLuvCats and @Starthecavy123. The lack of any sources bothers me, though. There seems to be an awful lot of info on this forum that is repeated and is accepted as Pig Wisdom. But then, if all we're going by is "everybody knows" then we can all go back to pet store cages because for generations "everybody knew" that was how you take care of Guinea pigs.

I'm sorry but when it comes to the experts I'd listen. When an experienced cavy own says something I would take the information they give you. A guinea pig can't tell you when they are stressed or if something is wrong. Everyone here will tell you the same thing not just me or @LuvCavysLuvCats that play dates are not good. During a play date a guinea pig may act fine and squeak and purr but that doesn't mean that its good. Guinea pigs are masters at hiding things from their piggy parents. When you put two pigs together they go through dominance behavior. Then you seperate them then put them back together again they have to start the dance all over again. So each time you do that they have to decide who will be the boss. There can only be one boss pig to a herd or pair. So therefore it becomes very confusing for them. It's not like when we humans go to a friend's house for a slumber party.

MrCavyMadness said:

Heres my cage. Its is also two level but they're connected so the boys can have both. Also my youtube channel is the same name as this account

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Wow! Nice cage. It's like guinea pig heaven. I wish I was handy enough to build something like this. I can't even put a C&C cage together with any success.

Starthecavy123 said:

I'm sorry but when it comes to the experts I'd listen. When an experienced cavy own says something I would take the information they give you. A guinea pig can't tell you when they are stressed or if something is wrong. Everyone here will tell you the same thing not just me or @LuvCavysLuvCats that play dates are not good. During a play date a guinea pig may act fine and squeak and purr but that doesn't mean that its good. Guinea pigs are masters at hiding things from their piggy parents. When you put two pigs together they go through dominance behavior. Then you seperate them then put them back together again they have to start the dance all over again. So each time you do that they have to decide who will be the boss. There can only be one boss pig to a herd or pair. So therefore it becomes very confusing for them. It's not like when we humans go to a friend's house for a slumber party.

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I didn't say not to listen to the experts. Being an experienced Guinea pig owner is not necessarily the same thing as being an expert, lots of experienced owners keep their piggies in petstore cages and feed them bad food. I realize that everyone here will say the same things, that's exactly my point. Most of what "everybody knows" on this forum makes sense and all of it is well-meaning but a lot of it is treated as sacred knowledge, to be taken on faith. People get attacked for questioning things or for going against the majority opinion. The thing is, opinion is exactly what a lot of it is as far as I can tell because no one has any sources except each other.

Advice is wonderful and can be very helpful. That's what we're here for, after all. But making group opinions into rules to be blindly followed is not a good idea.

I understand that Guinea pigs hide illness and such. They don't hide dominance behavior and they don't hide fights. Lovecavy13 has to choose between two kinds of stress, the playdates that mean bringing two pigs together and then separating them or the stress of both of those piggies being alone. Lovecavy13's Guinea pig can't use words to say which choice is better or worse and only Lovecavy13 is there to see the behavior.

"Guinea pigs shouldn't do playdates" is probably good advice and good reasons were given for it. "Guinea pigs should never do playdates" is a rule that doesn't take specific situations or individual pigs into consideration.

"Guinea pigs are very social and should be with others" is also good advice. Lovecavy13 has to be the one to decide what to do in his/her specific situation.

If they are going to be permanent pair then yes but seperating and seperating and seperating is not good and doesn't really help. Introduction should be a one and done situation or you'll just be confusing the pigs. Guinea pigs get stressed out easily and confusion just adds to the stress. I wasn't attacking anyone and I'm sorry if thats what it sounded like. We're just worried about the pig all our intentions are to help the pigs and the owners.

Starthecavy123 said:

If they are going to be permanent pair then yes but seperating and seperating and seperating is not good and doesn't really help. Introduction should be a one and done situation or you'll just be confusing the pigs. Guinea pigs get stressed out easily and confusion just adds to the stress. I wasn't attacking anyone and I'm sorry if thats what it sounded like. We're just worried about the pig all our intentions are to help the pigs and the owners.

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I don't think it sounds like you're attacking. I think it sounds like you are giving us what you see as facts without realizing that if you have no source for your information other than what everyone says it isn't facts, it's hearsay. "Everybody knows" this (and many other bits of advice repeated on this site) because everybody keeps repeating it to everyone else. It seems to make sense but lots of old wives tales seem to make sense, too.

How do you know that any of this is true and that it is so consistently true that it should be stated as a general rule for all Guinea pigs? How do you know that the rule "never do playdates" is more important than "Guinea pigs are social, herd animals that shouldn't be alone"? How do you know that it's true in every situation with individual piggies (in all their wide varieties of temperaments and personalities)? I'm reading through threads in this forum finding all kinds of things that people say very confidently which are contradicted by something someone else says with just as much authority somewhere else. I'm trying to sort out established fact from speculation and personal opinions and there is nothing to tell me which is which. It isn't just your advice about playdates (which I still don't know where it's coming from), it's all kinds of things.

People are making decisions based on the things they're told on this site. That's awesome because it's a heck of a lot better than getting the info from a store clerk at PetSmart. On the other hand, just because people say it on this site doesn't mean it's automatically accurate or based in anything other than personal preferences or speculation.

Play dates are not recommended for the reasons stated above, which are that they are stressful to the pigs and they pigs have to reestablish dominance every single time they meet each other. Sure, I guess you could say that having a play date relationship is better than being alone all the time. But do you really want your pig's entire "social life" to be made up of stressful dominance behavior? And then when they calm down and maybe even start enjoying each other's company, they're separated and left alone again. Is this really better than being alone all the time? They might be a little lonely or bored, maybe a little less active, but is constant stress and separation better?

We don't just say not to do play dates because some random person thought one day, "hey, maybe guinea pigs shouldn't have play dates." Many of the people on this site are getting their information, directly or indirectly, from the owner of this site and other experts on guinea pig behavior and social life. These experts have so much experience with introducing pigs, rescuing pigs, and generally having a lot of pigs, that they are qualified to say things about their behavior.