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pinky

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(broken link removed)

The person who posted this ad is a chinchilla breeder. This biting guinea pig came from a local caviary and she said he still bites, even though he was treated for mites. Sounds like the breeder can't sell this one. She attached the link to her chinchilla breeding business. I find it really disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers.

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MochaAndMoo

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I have Flagged.
 

WheekingPiggies

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It also confuses me when rescues breed. I mean if they are trying to rescue all the chins who need homes (and it says their rescue is filled to capacity) then why do they want to go about creating more? Flagged.
 

Aleks

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Flagged it. A rescue that breeds also makes absolutely no sense to me.
 

mufasa

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Breeders who rescue are doing it for good PR, just like pet stores that sell small animals and adopt out dogs and cats. They can say "look at all the good we're doing," and it diverts people's attention from the bad.
 

KaileighRussell

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Flagged!

[MENTION=22259]mufasa[/MENTION] - I was just about to say that's no different than Petsmart selling all the little critters but housing cats for adoption with rescues.

I totally understand accidental pregnancies with rescues - or a pig being surrendered while pregnant and babies coming from that. I don't like when rescues use the words "sale" when talking about guinea pigs. You're adopting/rescuing - you're not getting them on sale.
 

Paula

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The basic problem with breeders who rescue is that oftentimes they tend to intermingle their breeding stock with their rescues - which introduces many problems, not the least of which is breeding animals and lines that you aren't sure of and don't know the history of. I very highly doubt that is the case with this specific rescue/breeder and you can't paint all breeders with the same brush because of what you know or assume about others. I can't be sure, but I assume she is a member of both MCBA and ECBC, which are mutation chinchilla breeder associations, which is a sign of a quality breeder who takes breeding seriously and is striving to produce quality animals.

You cannot assume that a person who is a breeder is a bad rescuer or is doing something untoward. Breeding quality animals takes time and work and, at least in the world of chinchillas, can be done with standards. With chinchillas, being a member of breeding associations and showing your breeding stock and what you are producing opens you up to judgment from your peers and others in the community. Assuming that she is doing that, you cannot dismiss her as a backyard breeder or liken her to such and while it's not true in all cases, in this one, her breeding chinchillas does not negate her efforts for placing unwanted animals in her rescue. There's a difference and it's fairly easy to see if you can open your mind a bit and see the reality beyond the world of backyard guinea pig breeding.

Frankly, the only thing I see in the ad that concerns me is the mention that he's a skinny carrier and pedigree, which would suggest she's open to having him adopted out to someone with intentions of breeding.

Also, it's of interest to me that the OP of this post fairly recently recommended this same group to a person looking for a chinchilla.

That said, it doesn't seem to me that finding this guinea pig a good home will be helped in any way by encouraging folks to flag and remove the ad because you don't like the fact that she's breeding chinchillas when in reality it's unlikely you know much of anything about the specific case in either her breeding or rescue endeavors.
 

pinky

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The basic problem with breeders who rescue is that oftentimes they tend to intermingle their breeding stock with their rescues - which introduces many problems, not the least of which is breeding animals and lines that you aren't sure of and don't know the history of. I very highly doubt that is the case with this specific rescue/breeder and you can't paint all breeders with the same brush because of what you know or assume about others. I can't be sure, but I assume she is a member of both MCBA and ECBC, which are mutation chinchilla breeder associations, which is a sign of a quality breeder who takes breeding seriously and is striving to produce quality animals.

You cannot assume that a person who is a breeder is a bad rescuer or is doing something untoward. Breeding quality animals takes time and work and, at least in the world of chinchillas, can be done with standards. With chinchillas, being a member of breeding associations and showing your breeding stock and what you are producing opens you up to judgment from your peers and others in the community. Assuming that she is doing that, you cannot dismiss her as a backyard breeder or liken her to such and while it's not true in all cases, in this one, her breeding chinchillas does not negate her efforts for placing unwanted animals in her rescue. There's a difference and it's fairly easy to see if you can open your mind a bit and see the reality beyond the world of backyard guinea pig breeding.

Frankly, the only thing I see in the ad that concerns me is the mention that he's a skinny carrier and pedigree, which would suggest she's open to having him adopted out to someone with intentions of breeding.

Also, it's of interest to me that the OP of this post fairly recently recommended this same group to a person looking for a chinchilla.

That said, it doesn't seem to me that finding this guinea pig a good home will be helped in any way by encouraging folks to flag and remove the ad because you don't like the fact that she's breeding chinchillas when in reality it's unlikely you know much of anything about the specific case in either her breeding or rescue endeavors.

I emailed this person prior to putting up this post. She said she the guinea pig from a local guinea pig breeder in NWI; apparently "damaged goods" that comes with a pedigree. I don't consider that rescuing. It reminds me more of what pet stores do when they have an animal with issues. Sell it at a discount to make more for more.
 

Paula

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I emailed this person prior to putting up this post. She said she the guinea pig from a local guinea pig breeder in NWI; apparently "damaged goods" that comes with a pedigree. I don't consider that rescuing. It reminds me more of what pet stores do when they have an animal with issues. Sell it at a discount to make more for more.
$30? Yeah, she's certainly making a killing. She'll be sending her kids off to a private college and buying that condo in Jamaica in no time with profits like that rolling in.

There are two ways of looking at her attempt to find a good home for this animal - the first is that she's violating Craigslist's TOS by selling a pig from a breeder and selling him with a pedigree which would obviously mean she's fine with having him go to a home that intends to breed him. That does not fall into the category of a "rescue" animal, we are in agreement with that. However, you can also look at it as a person attempting to find a good home for a pig who is the product of a breeder, which is also the case with just about every animal you see posted for rehoming on Craigslist. The person who posted the ad didn't breed this pig. She took him for a friend (yes, a guinea pig breeder) and needs to find him a home. Because he has a pedigree and known lineage, she sees no problem with homing to someone with breeding intentions. Given the application process and presumably extensive questionnaire, it seems unlikely that this person would allow the pig to go to a home that isn't educated about guinea pig care, or presumably guinea pig breeding. I don't like the latter, and I agree that it is in some ways a violation of the Craigslist's terms of service.

She is, however, not adopting out/selling this animal as a rescue animal - which I think she made fairly clear from what I read of her version of your email exchange.

Furthermore, if the only problem you have with the ad is that it's a guinea pig from a breeder and the person wouldn't have a problem letting him go to a breeding situation, then I can't understand why you brought up the chinchilla rescue and breeding (the former of which you yourself have referred people to) at all:

The person who posted this ad is a chinchilla breeder. This biting guinea pig came from a local caviary and she said he still bites, even though he was treated for mites. Sounds like the breeder can't sell this one. She attached the link to her chinchilla breeding business. I find it really disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers.
I in turn find it disturbing that there are so many folks so committed to animal welfare, who are such great champions for animals that can't or won't be bothered to open their minds to the reality that all breeders of all animals are not created equal and cannot be branded with the same stereotype of what we have come to know as the 'norm' for many guinea pig breeders.

This (reposted with permission) is the response to this thread from the owner of NWI Chinchillas:

I would definitely not want to intermix unknown lines and bad genetics. Not that every rescue I get is a rat-faced chin, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't know the genetic history, and who knows what I could be passing on? Nope, just the pedigreed show chins for me. That's enough. At least with them, if something problematic pops up, I can alert the original breeder and the line can be pulled if needed. I appreciate having that possibility if something genetic pops up during breeding. I never quite understand the people that go on about it's impossible to breed and rescue, as for me, I just have my pedigreed chins on one side, and then then the rescues take up the rest of the room. It's not like oops a rescue got into a run! Lol. People are insane. And what kills me, is that it's always me that people want to pick on. Yes, I breed, yes I run a rescue... but in the next state over, I know someone who breeds, she posted on facebook that she hopes to have 500 babies next year. I had all of 14-ish live this year. Yet because I rescue, I'm horrible for bringing those 14 into the world. What about the 500 other people churn out? I feel like I shouldn't be labeled as the "problem" when I'm barely contributing. Ugh. I know it's not you saying I'm the problem, it just frustrates me because a LOT of people have been going on about how I can't possibly rescue and breed unless I'm breeding the rescues lately and it's driving me up the wall. I just bought a $300 chin from Chins by Design because I wanted to start up my beige line again (my last good beige was killed in a colony situation years ago, and I never replaced her). I wouldn't go around spending that much on a chin if I was going to throw in rescues in the mix and breed God knows what. It's frustrating for me.
 

pinky

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$30? Yeah, she's certainly making a killing. She'll be sending her kids off to a private college and buying that condo in Jamaica in no time with profits like that rolling in.

There are two ways of looking at her attempt to find a good home for this animal - the first is that she's violating Craigslist's TOS by selling a pig from a breeder and selling him with a pedigree which would obviously mean she's fine with having him go to a home that intends to breed him. That does not fall into the category of a "rescue" animal, we are in agreement with that. However, you can also look at it as a person attempting to find a good home for a pig who is the product of a breeder, which is also the case with just about every animal you see posted for rehoming on Craigslist. The person who posted the ad didn't breed this pig. She took him for a friend (yes, a guinea pig breeder) and needs to find him a home. Because he has a pedigree and known lineage, she sees no problem with homing to someone with breeding intentions. Given the application process and presumably extensive questionnaire, it seems unlikely that this person would allow the pig to go to a home that isn't educated about guinea pig care, or presumably guinea pig breeding. I don't like the latter, and I agree that it is in some ways a violation of the Craigslist's terms of service.

She is, however, not adopting out/selling this animal as a rescue animal - which I think she made fairly clear from what I read of her version of your email exchange.

Furthermore, if the only problem you have with the ad is that it's a guinea pig from a breeder and the person wouldn't have a problem letting him go to a breeding situation, then I can't understand why you brought up the chinchilla rescue and breeding (the former of which you yourself have referred people to) at all:

I in turn find it disturbing that there are so many folks so committed to animal welfare, who are such great champions for animals that can't or won't be bothered to open their minds to the reality that all breeders of all animals are not created equal and cannot be branded with the same stereotype of what we have come to know as the 'norm' for many guinea pig breeders.

This (reposted with permission) is the response to this thread from the owner of NWI Chinchillas:
 
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pinky

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$30? Yeah, she's certainly making a killing. She'll be sending her kids off to a private college and buying that condo in Jamaica in no time with profits like that rolling in.

There are two ways of looking at her attempt to find a good home for this animal - the first is that she's violating Craigslist's TOS by selling a pig from a breeder and selling him with a pedigree which would obviously mean she's fine with having him go to a home that intends to breed him. That does not fall into the category of a "rescue" animal, we are in agreement with that. However, you can also look at it as a person attempting to find a good home for a pig who is the product of a breeder, which is also the case with just about every animal you see posted for rehoming on Craigslist. The person who posted the ad didn't breed this pig. She took him for a friend (yes, a guinea pig breeder) and needs to find him a home. Because he has a pedigree and known lineage, she sees no problem with homing to someone with breeding intentions. Given the application process and presumably extensive questionnaire, it seems unlikely that this person would allow the pig to go to a home that isn't educated about guinea pig care, or presumably guinea pig breeding. I don't like the latter, and I agree that it is in some ways a violation of the Craigslist's terms of service.

She is, however, not adopting out/selling this animal as a rescue animal - which I think she made fairly clear from what I read of her version of your email exchange.

Furthermore, if the only problem you have with the ad is that it's a guinea pig from a breeder and the person wouldn't have a problem letting him go to a breeding situation, then I can't understand why you brought up the chinchilla rescue and breeding (the former of which you yourself have referred people to) at all:

I in turn find it disturbing that there are so many folks so committed to animal welfare, who are such great champions for animals that can't or won't be bothered to open their minds to the reality that all breeders of all animals are not created equal and cannot be branded with the same stereotype of what we have come to know as the 'norm' for many guinea pig breeders.

This (reposted with permission) is the response to this thread from the owner of NWI Chinchillas:

I posted this thread because a guinea pig that came from a caviary was up on craigslist with info that would appeal to someone wanting to breed skinnies. Ashley's reply to my email included her chinchilla rescue so I added it to the post since she offered that info. As I said to her, there are hundreds of guinea pigs on petfinder so it doesn't make sense to breed more. Had she not added the skinny genes to her ad, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. In fact, my original email to her was suggesting she treat him for mites and mentioning the skinny gene probably means he'll end up being bred. I asked her if she was a breeder. You know, Paula, I take issue with the way you seem to always single me out. You're making an issue out of something that was never suggested by me. I think there are more urgent things to worry about, frankly, like guinea pigs that will probably end up being bred because of the way an ad is posted on craigslist.
 

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I feel like she just wanted the pig to look more appealing. Some people just want to own certain breeds. And even so, she seems to have good intentions for it by making sure the adopter knows how to care for it...
 

Paula

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I posted this thread because a guinea pig that came from a caviary was up on craigslist with info that would appeal to someone wanting to breed skinnies. Ashley's reply to my email included her chinchilla rescue so I added it to the post since she offered that info.
Which is a rescue you've referred people to as a good source of information and chins in the past. That was what originally struck me about this post.

As I said to her, there are hundreds of guinea pigs on petfinder so it doesn't make sense to breed more. Had she not added the skinny genes to her ad, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. In fact, my original email to her was suggesting she treat him for mites and mentioning the skinny gene probably means he'll end up being bred. I asked her if she was a breeder.
She is not a guinea pig breeder and as she stated in her original email (which she sent to me) this pig was originally purchased from a breeder and then the buyer wanted to return the pig and instead of driving to the caviary where the pig was originally purchased, the buyer opted to surrender him to her rescue for her to rehome.

That is a scenario that plays out in any number of rescue groups all over this country. The distinction here is that the guinea pig was bred by a person this rescuer considers a friend and that there is some background info known about his history and lineage.

As she also mentioned, some of the hundreds of animals listed on Petfinder are hers, as she is, in fact, a bona fide rescue. Actually, here are her listings on PetFinder: Pet Search Results: Adoptable Pets in Munster, IN: Petfinder.

I do find it problematic that she mentions the skinny gene and pedigree, but I think it would have gone a lot further to just suggest to her that as a rescue it might not be wise and might be perceived as bad form to be suggesting or even allowing that an animal she is adopting out should not be used in any capacity as a breeding animal. Rescue groups make bad decisions and bad judgments all the time, I've personally seen this a number of times. Usually it's a better approach to point out those errors personally and in a way that might engender a positive response and change rather than making snide remarks and referencing parts of exchanges publicly while the group or person has no way to respond or even knowledge of the posting.

You know, Paula, I take issue with the way you seem to always single me out. You're making an issue out of something that was never suggested by me.
I certainly don't single any individual out. I do tend to hone in on gross inaccuracies or overreactions. If you feel that I'm responding to a disproportionate number of your posts, well ... it's certainly not intentional. This, in particular, is a matter I do have significant personal experience and knowledge of. That you were the one who posted it is of no consequence, it's still a valid point that needs to be made. As to the "issue" I'm making out of "something that was never suggested" by you? I'm not sure. The issues I've broached here are:

1) That you cannot dismiss a rescuer as invalid or sub-par because said person also breeds a group of animals. In response to your comment:

I find it really disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers.
Furthermore in response to this comment, I expanded that the issue with rescuers who breed sometimes intermingle their rescues with their breeders. That is not the case with this rescuer and breeder.

2) That this person is not attempting to make a profit or passing herself off as a rescue when she is not, or doing anything otherwise that is questionable and while the suggestion that the pig is pedigreed and a skinny gene carrier will certainly not help to ensure he's not used for breeding, the suggestion itself does not mean that she's allowing him to go to just any home or that her criteria will be lax because of it. In response to your comment:

She said she the guinea pig from a local guinea pig breeder in NWI; apparently "damaged goods" that comes with a pedigree. I don't consider that rescuing. It reminds me more of what pet stores do when they have an animal with issues. Sell it at a discount to make more for more.
The only issues I'm presenting here are in response to comments you have made, so please dispense with the notion that it's anything otherwise.

I think there are more urgent things to worry about, frankly, like guinea pigs that will probably end up being bred because of the way an ad is posted on craigslist.
Given that this person is running a legitimate rescue (whilst also breeding quality chinchillas and adhering to strict standards there) I think the worry that this pig is going to a substandard or unacceptable home is probably not realistic.

I'm in full agreement that true backyard breeders passing themselves off as something they just aren't really needs to be policed and shut down on Craigslist as long as they choose not to allow that on their site, but the flagging of ads because we don't like the way they are posted or what they might be suggesting only does a disservice to the animals when the person is legitimately looking to find a good home for said animal in the first place.
 
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pinky

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Which is a rescue you've referred people to as a good source of information and chins in the past. That was what originally struck me about this post.

She is not a guinea pig breeder and as she stated in her original email (which she sent to me) this pig was originally purchased from a breeder and then the buyer wanted to return the pig and instead of driving to the caviary where the pig was originally purchased, the buyer opted to surrender him to her rescue for her to rehome.

That is a scenario that plays out in any number of rescue groups all over this country. The distinction here is that the guinea pig was bred by a person this rescuer considers a friend and that there is some background info known about his history and lineage.

As she also mentioned, some of the hundreds of animals listed on Petfinder are hers, as she is, in fact, a bona fide rescue. Actually, here are her listings on PetFinder: Pet Search Results: Adoptable Pets in Munster, IN: Petfinder.

I do find it problematic that she mentions the skinny gene and pedigree, but I think it would have gone a lot further to just suggest to her that as a rescue it might not be wise and might be perceived as bad form to be suggesting or even allowing that an animal she is adopting out should not be used in any capacity as a breeding animal. Rescue groups make bad decisions and bad judgments all the time, I've personally seen this a number of times. Usually it's a better approach to point out those errors personally and in a way that might engender a positive response and change rather than making snide remarks and referencing parts of exchanges publicly while the group or person has no way to respond or even knowledge of the posting.

I certainly don't single any individual out. I do tend to hone in on gross inaccuracies or overreactions. If you feel that I'm responding to a disproportionate number of your posts, well ... infer what you will. This, in particular, is a matter I do have significant personal experience and knowledge of. That you were the one who posted it is of no consequence, it's still a valid point that needs to be made. As to the "issue" I'm making out of "something that was never suggested" by you? I'm not sure. The issues I've broached here are:

1) That you cannot dismiss a rescuer as invalid or sub-par because said person also breeds a group of animals. In response to your comment:

Furthermore in response to this comment, I expanded that the issue with rescuers who breed sometimes intermingle their rescues with their breeders. That is not the case with this rescuer and breeder.

2) That this person is not attempting to make a profit or passing herself off as a rescue when she is not, or doing anything otherwise that is questionable and while the suggestion that the pig is pedigreed and a skinny gene carrier will certainly not help to ensure he's not used for breeding, the suggestion itself does not mean that she's allowing him to go to just any home or that her criteria will be lax because of it. In response to your comment:

The only issues I'm presenting here are in response to comments you have made, so please dispense with the notion that it's anything otherwise.

Given that this person is running a legitimate rescue (whilst also breeding quality chinchillas and adhering to strict standards there) I think the worry that this pig is going to a substandard or unacceptable home is probably not realistic.

I'm in full agreement that true backyard breeders passing themselves off as something they just aren't really needs to be policed and shut down on Craigslist as long as they choose not to allow that on their site, but the flagging of ads because we don't like the way they are posted or what they might be suggesting only does a disservice to the animals when the person is legitimately looking to find a good home for said animal in the first place

As far as recommending her as a legitimate breeder, I don't recall the exact context. I think it had something to do with you advocating buying chinchillas from breeders instead of getting one from a shelter or a rehomed one. If you have the link, you can repost it. I have no personal knowledge of her operation and didn't realize this guinea pig was currently being offered through her chinchilla "rescue" when I responded to her ad. Her original ad was vague but she did say they have OTHER "rescues" which lead me to believe that guinea pig considered to be a rescued animal, not simply being rehomed for a breeder friend. Snide remarks? I think that's a little judgmental on your part. My initial email to her was offering suggestions for treating for mites, questioning offering the information that he has skinny genes and asking if she's a breeder. That's hardly snide and was meant to offer suggestions in the best interest of the guinea pig and possibly lessen the likelihood of him being bred. I said nothing about breeders intermingling their animals with rescues. That has nothing to do with the issue of this guinea pig and is irrelevant. I stand by my original thread that a rescue listing a guinea pig with skinny genes should be flagged. If she removed the reference to the genes, I would have had no problem with it. She can sell her chins and adopt out rescues. I didn't question her chinchilla breeding but questioned her ad about the guinea pig. I found it to be a red flag that she later offered the fact that she is a breeder and listed a rescued animal as having genes suitable for breeding skinnies. As far as a disservice to animals, her ad posts not only a disservice to more guinea pigs that could be bred as a result of the ad, it actually offers information that would encourage someone who wants to breed skinny guinea pigs to adopt him. You do a bigger disservice by looking the other way and playing it down because it's only $30. I don't think paying a smaller amount for a guinea pig or any pet makes it any less problematic to breed that animal.
 

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As far as recommending her as a legitimate breeder, I don't recall the exact context. I think it had something to do with you advocating buying chinchillas from breeders instead of getting one from a shelter or a rehomed one. If you have the link, you can repost it.
A link is actually posted in my first response. You're free to consult it and see that your reply with the recommendation was prior to any comment of mine regarding rescue/breeding at all and that all I said then was:

There are responsible breeders in the chin world, so although I'd not necessarily encourage you to go to a breeder, it's an entirely different scene than guinea pig breeders, so do your research and your homework.

I have no personal knowledge of her operation and didn't realize this guinea pig was currently being offered through her chinchilla "rescue" when I responded to her ad. Her original ad was vague but she did say they have OTHER "rescues" which lead me to believe that guinea pig considered to be a rescued animal, not simply being rehomed for a breeder friend. Snide remarks?
Snide remarks:
I find it really disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers.
It reminds me more of what pet stores do when they have an animal with issues. Sell it at a discount to make more for more.
You have no knowledge of her operation, you say, and yet you're utterly intolerant of it even in the absolute lack of knowledge?

I think that's a little judgmental on your part. My initial email to her was offering suggestions for treating for mites, questioning offering the information that he has skinny genes and asking if she's a breeder. That's hardly snide and was meant to offer suggestions in the best interest of the guinea pig and possibly lessen the likelihood of him being bred. I said nothing about breeders intermingling their animals with rescues. That has nothing to do with the issue of this guinea pig and is irrelevant.
I wasn't at all then and am not now referencing any comment you made to her directly. I agree it is irrelevant, which is the point I made, repeatedly, by pointing out that the problem with breeders who rescue, and I can only assume what you were referencing with your original broad-sweeping comment on finding it disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers, which is decidedly not the case with this rescue. I am glad you can see that, and thank you for saying so.

I stand by my original thread that a rescue listing a guinea pig with skinny genes should be flagged.
I agree on that one point. The fact that she's a chinchilla breeder is irrelevant (as you say) to the posting, which is why I wasn't sure why you mentioned it in the first place.

If she removed the reference to the genes, I would have had no problem with it. She can sell her chins and adopt out rescues. I didn't question her chinchilla breeding but questioned her ad about the guinea pig.
Actually, you weren't clear on what you were questioning. All you said was:

I find it really disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers.
My point was then and still is that it is possible for a person to be both a legitimate rescuer and a legitimate breeder, contrary to the initial suggestion you made. It's a tall order, and it's more often done poorly than done well. However, you can't dismiss a rescue you know nothing about because the owner is a chinchilla breeder, which is something you also know nothing about, and basing your opinion on it on what you know about guinea pig breeding is just closed-minded and sad.


I found it to be a red flag that she later offered the fact that she is a breeder and listed a rescued animal as having genes suitable for breeding skinnies.
I'm supposing that she didn't really "offer" the fact that she's a breeder, but the footer of her email includes a link to her site. I doubt she gave it any thought at all when replying to your message. Like a number of other things posted here, it would seem that how it came to your attention that she's a chinchilla breeder was misrepresented, to say the very least.

As far as a disservice to animals, her ad posts not only a disservice to more guinea pigs that could be bred as a result of the ad, it actually offers information that would encourage someone who wants to breed skinny guinea pigs to adopt him.
I think any "disservice" she might be doing by suggesting that he's a skinny gene carrier is evened out by the adoption procedure she goes through. She most certainly isn't just handing off this or any animal to the first person to reply to the ad showing interest. And really, what do you think happens when the Craigslist Flagging Police are successful in removing an ad? Do you really thing you're preventing this or any animal from being bred? They post their ad elsewhere and find other sources for finding the animals(s) a home. Flagging ads because they are animals being bred is a violation of Craigslist's TOS is certainly legitimate, but doing so doesn't prevent them from advertising and finding buyers/homes elsewhere.

You do a bigger disservice by looking the other way and playing it down because it's only $30. I don't think paying a smaller amount for a guinea pig or any pet makes it any less problematic to breed that animal.
I didn't down play the adoption fee. I pointed out that your accusation that she's making a huge profit and that she's selling the animal for a reduced price because he's "damaged goods" and your implication that in doing so she will send him home with just anyone is silly.

I'm glad we seem to be in agreement (finally) that the fact that she's a chin breeder is irrelevant to this guinea pig and any issue with the ad she placed for him is related to the comment she made about him being a skinny gene carrier and not anything else related to her operation, rescue or breeding.

I'll say again - I'm in full agreement that breeders who do so irresponsibly and without regard to the animals in their care or the bigger-picture issues that come with breeding should be persecuted and stopped at every turn, whenever possible. This seems to be the case with ALL guinea pig breeders, I don't dispute that, but as I said before, you can't base your opinion on chinchilla breeding on what you know about guinea pig breeding. I fully admit, too, that I used to do the same before I had the opportunity to educate myself and broaden my horizons on the issues. BUT, I think it's fair to say that it's highly unlikely there will be a time in the near future when there won't be breeders out there doing what they do. To discourage them all based on what you know about some is intolerant; and while there will always be breeders who are cruel and careless and ignorant to the problems they create, I think that spamming and misrepresenting them ALL without knowledge is quite unnecessary and contributes to the problem, not the solution.

That said, I think I'm going to say I'm done with this debate, especially since the ad has been deleted by its author now, anyway.
 

pinky

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
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Joined
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A link is actually posted in my first response. You're free to consult it and see that your reply with the recommendation was prior to any comment of mine regarding rescue/breeding at all and that all I said then was:



Snide remarks:
You have no knowledge of her operation, you say, and yet you're utterly intolerant of it even in the absolute lack of knowledge?

I wasn't at all then and am not now referencing any comment you made to her directly. I agree it is irrelevant, which is the point I made, repeatedly, by pointing out that the problem with breeders who rescue, and I can only assume what you were referencing with your original broad-sweeping comment on finding it disturbing when breeders refer to themselves as rescuers, which is decidedly not the case with this rescue. I am glad you can see that, and thank you for saying so.

I agree on that one point. The fact that she's a chinchilla breeder is irrelevant (as you say) to the posting, which is why I wasn't sure why you mentioned it in the first place.

Actually, you weren't clear on what you were questioning. All you said was:

My point was then and still is that it is possible for a person to be both a legitimate rescuer and a legitimate breeder, contrary to the initial suggestion you made. It's a tall order, and it's more often done poorly than done well. However, you can't dismiss a rescue you know nothing about because the owner is a chinchilla breeder, which is something you also know nothing about, and basing your opinion on it on what you know about guinea pig breeding is just closed-minded and sad.

I'm supposing that she didn't really "offer" the fact that she's a breeder, but the footer of her email includes a link to her site. I doubt she gave it any thought at all when replying to your message. Like a number of other things posted here, it would seem that how it came to your attention that she's a chinchilla breeder was misrepresented, to say the very least.

I think any "disservice" she might be doing by suggesting that he's a skinny gene carrier is evened out by the adoption procedure she goes through. She most certainly isn't just handing off this or any animal to the first person to reply to the ad showing interest. And really, what do you think happens when the Craigslist Flagging Police are successful in removing an ad? Do you really thing you're preventing this or any animal from being bred? They post their ad elsewhere and find other sources for finding the animals(s) a home. Flagging ads because they are animals being bred is a violation of Craigslist's TOS is certainly legitimate, but doing so doesn't prevent them from advertising and finding buyers/homes elsewhere.

I didn't down play the adoption fee. I pointed out that your accusation that she's making a huge profit and that she's selling the animal for a reduced price because he's "damaged goods" and your implication that in doing so she will send him home with just anyone is silly.

I'm glad we seem to be in agreement (finally) that the fact that she's a chin breeder is irrelevant to this guinea pig and any issue with the ad she placed for him is related to the comment she made about him being a skinny gene carrier and not anything else related to her operation, rescue or breeding.

I'll say again - I'm in full agreement that breeders who do so irresponsibly and without regard to the animals in their care or the bigger-picture issues that come with breeding should be persecuted and stopped at every turn, whenever possible. This seems to be the case with ALL guinea pig breeders, I don't dispute that, but as I said before, you can't base your opinion on chinchilla breeding on what you know about guinea pig breeding. I fully admit, too, that I used to do the same before I had the opportunity to educate myself and broaden my horizons on the issues. BUT, I think it's fair to say that it's highly unlikely there will be a time in the near future when there won't be breeders out there doing what they do. To discourage them all based on what you know about some is intolerant; and while there will always be breeders who are cruel and careless and ignorant to the problems they create, I think that spamming and misrepresenting them ALL without knowledge is quite unnecessary and contributes to the problem, not the solution.

That said, I think I'm going to say I'm done with this debate, especially since the ad has been deleted by its author now, anyway.

Good lord, Paula, give it up......
 
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