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hollypigs
09-29-05, 01:18 pm
i am an incredibly responsible guinea pig owner - ask me any questions you want about the conditions my guineas are kept in i will even send u pictures of the guinea pig room in my house if u want proof - but make no mistake my guineas are kept in incredibly high standard cages and conditions.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:18 pm
Well then I guess she would have to downsize. What a concept! Better care for less animals. I could have 40 pigs too if I wanted to but I have settled at giveing 4 the best care I can and looking after a 5th for a while.

Cavie Cove: Lining, in my opinion, is the only way to make wood hutches sanitary. Wood is hard to disinfect and harbors disease. It cannot be used in the production or care of live stock/food so why would you use it for your pets? If you have an existing wood hutch the best way to make it better is to line it with plastic or lino.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 01:19 pm
She could always knock down the walls between the cages and combine them.
That's exactly what I think she should do. It's not so hard:sad:

Cavie Cove
09-29-05, 01:20 pm
It cannot be used in the production or care of live stock/food so why would you use it for your pets?
I can see what you mean but mine always chew on the wood and it helps keep their teeth down even though they all have fruit brances in with them. But I do see you'r point but even the ones in the plastic based cages chew the plastic.
Oh well guineas will be guineas I supose!

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:22 pm
No, the hard part is admitting we are right. At least you saw where we are comming from and are working to improve your conditions. Some people will never learn.

And to think, some of these people are older then you Myspoiltpiggies. Just goes to show you maturity does not come with age.

Edit: Throw in a couple tp rolls. That helps with the chewing. I only have 2 chewers now: Lina and Kero. Lina does it to get my attention and will stop when I attend to her and Kero will chew when he sees his lady friends. Hopefully a buddy will help.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 01:23 pm
My guinea pigs used to chew the wood of their hutches. Now they have C&C cages they only ever chew on the BARS, which cannot break.. that's another advantage of C&Cs:cheerful:

hollypigs
09-29-05, 01:34 pm
to myspoiltpiggies i have 14 guinea pigs all boars which live in pairs my guinea pig room is 4.5 x 4.5 metres and on 2 seperate levels, the guineas are fed dry feed (burgess), hay and fresh veggies daily on cleaning out day the guineas are free to run around the floor (not all at one time) at one point i did have a problem with condensation on the window in my room i have now solved this with an airpurifier to give my guineas the best quality air as i have a pig who once had a chest infection and gets wheezy at times and an air conditioner - if any one has anytips as to how i could improve the standards of how my guineas are kept - let me know no matter how bitchy this page is getting - the care of my guineas still come first and as i said before anyone who challenges how well i take care of my guineas is welcome to photos or even to visit just to prove that i would never take on any animal without being able to give the best quality of care available - please feel free to contact me with any questions.

C&K
09-29-05, 01:35 pm
I read on another thread that if a piggy was supplied with enough hay, they don't need to chew on wood to grind their teeth down. A fruit tree branch added never hurts though, especially for those that love to chew.

As for your other question in why to line the entire hutch, the reason is that sick pigs can rub up against the sides and some pathogens will get engrained in the wood this way, also if they have a cough or sneeze then germs well get to all surfaces.

My first guinea came with a wood hut. It could be thrown out or staralized if we experiance illness. She has obviously chewed a lot on it. However, since being supplied with ample hay, I have not her seen chewing on it...




I can see what you mean but mine always chew on the wood and it helps keep their teeth down even though they all have fruit brances in with them. But I do see you'r point but even the ones in the plastic based cages chew the plastic.
Oh well guineas will be guineas I supose!

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:35 pm
That's exactly what I think she should do. It's not so hard:sad:

Do you people not read ??
I have stated in previous posts it is very hard to house breeding boars together even if you give them 4ft or 6ft of space.
Also my hutches arent that easy to 'knock' together, they are wood remember and I would need to saw them.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:37 pm
i am an incredibly responsible guinea pig owner - ask me any questions you want about the conditions my guineas are kept in i will even send u pictures of the guinea pig room in my house if u want proof - but make no mistake my guineas are kept in incredibly high standard cages and conditions.

I wouldnt bother trying to defend yourself to them, they will say your cages arent ventilated properly.:eek:

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 01:40 pm
to myspoiltpiggies i have 14 guinea pigs all boars which live in...
I don't think you mis-treat your guinea pigs. I said sarcastically that you sound like you are a responsible guinea pig owner because your responce to my post was 'whatever'... :guilty:

hollypigs
09-29-05, 01:43 pm
yeah well u shouldnt have made a stupid comment such as that. i think sometimes you are very hurtful - it would be so nice to be able to discuss this in a friendly and open manner

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:43 pm
Do you not read? We have told you that if you give them 10 sq feet or more they will be fine. 6 feet isn't big enough for 1 boar, 4 feet is way too small.

I'll let you know how my boar, who has been with a sow (before I adopted him) and my boar who we have no idea if he has sired a litter get on. But I doubt I will have any problems.

Have you also tried to pair up boars who are different ages? Baby boars tend to get on fine with older boars. That's why I adopted Spinel, he is full grown (and quite handsome of I do say so myself), Kerberos is just 8 months old.

Edit: And you aren't hurtfull HollyPigs? You sound like a mean spiteful little girl to me. You offer no solutions and you are always complaining about something. I think that's why you joined up, to complain. Myspoiltpiggies seems like a very nice young woman. She is learning from her mistakes and is trying to provide more room for her pigs so that their lives can be enriched.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:50 pm
6ft isnt big enough for one boar so how comes c&c say 30inches x 36inches(3ft) is appropriate for 1 guinea and maximum for 2?
I have various boars together but you will never get Scrufty with anyone apart from sows, he did have a very nice friend and one day he turned on him and riped his ear in half, lucky for Biscuit I was their at the time and split them up fighting. They had been happy for 1 month.
These are some happy boars living together...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/pigs%20together/patchandcharca02.jpg - this photo is of Patch and Charca. They are both adult boars and where introduced when adults.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/pigs%20together/splatandhannibal.jpg - this is Splat and Hannibal, he is 6 years old soon
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/pigs%20together/smartiesandyoshi01.jpg Smarties and Yoshi are younger boars and now have the company of an adult boar called Freddy

Cavie Cove
09-29-05, 01:51 pm
However, since being supplied with ample hay, I have not her seen chewing on it...


mine do have hay in with them nearly 24/7 but some just love to chew the wood for some reason.


My guinea pigs used to chew the wood of their hutches. Now they have C&C cages they only ever chew on the BARS, which cannot break.. that's another advantage of C&Cs:cheerful:

I'd rather them to chew on wood than bars after seeing what damage chewing on bars did to my gerbils and some of the guineas in the plastic base cages with a bar top- hope you know the ones I mean I can't describe them any better-they got very very sore nosies.

Throw in a couple tp rolls. going to sound REALLY dum but what do you mean by tp rolls? Do you mean toilet roll tubes?

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:51 pm
That comes out to 7.5 square feet. Not 6 feet.

Edit: Yup, plain old toilet paper tubes. Just cut them in a spiral. My pigs love them. They chew them, they play tug of war with them, they bonk each other on the heads with them. They love tp rolls to bits, literally. I keep every roll we go through. They'll use 'em.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:52 pm
Myspoiltpiggies seems like a very nice young woman. She is learning from her mistakes and is trying to provide more room for her pigs so that their lives can be enriched.

I think you mean me? GPPerson not myspolitpiggies

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:54 pm
That comes out to 7.5 square feet. Not 6 feet.

3ft long and 30inches wide or is that not how you work it out???
Like I have said before my hutches are 36inches(3ft) long and 30inches deep, you people dont believe me and I dont give a s**t!

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:55 pm
No, myspoiltpiggies had small cages like you and is now building C&C cages. She used to breed an she isn't anymore. You are getting there but you are still quite stubborn. You are 21 are you not? I think you said you were. Well older dogs like us take longer to learn new tricks.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:56 pm
I am 21, you are correct.
I thought you ment me and I was only trying to help.
I like being stubborn.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 01:58 pm
i hope u all realise that some toilet/and kitchen rolls contain a substance harmful to guineas

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:58 pm
*1 pig // 7.5 sq ft // more is better// 30" x 36" // 2x3 grids

This is from http://cavycages.com. I don't usually work in inches, being Canadian I do everything in metric, but somehow a 2X3 works out to 7.5 sq feet.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:59 pm
*1 pig // 7.5 sq ft // more is better// 30" x 36" // 2x3 grids


This is from http://cavycages.com (http://cavycages.com/). I don't usually work in inches, being Canadian I do everything in metric, but somehow a 2X3 works out to 7.5 sq feet.

EDIT: 36inches is 3ft the length of my larger hutches and 30inches is 2.5 feet which is the width of my larger hutches.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:59 pm
Hmm paper? Harmful? I have never heard of such a thing. You claim wood is OK, but paper is bad. Give me a break.

I guess maybe UK tp rolls have more glue of something. If Canadian rolls were harmful I would have noticed by now, my pigs have gone through a box full.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:00 pm
i have never claimed wood to be good or bad - u r thinkin of sum 1 else - sorry

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 02:02 pm
Hmm paper? Harmful? I have never heard of such a thing. You claim wood is OK, but paper is bad. Give me a break.

I guess maybe UK tp rolls have more glue of something. If Canadian rolls were harmful I would have noticed by now, my pigs have gone through a box full.

Some rolls have a lot of glue on them in the UK

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:02 pm
Maybe if you wrote in English I could understand you better. Shall I write my replies in l33t? Will that help you understand things?

EditL The brand of tp I use has very little glue. It is enviromentally friendly tp.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:04 pm
english is fine - it is your sarcasm that i find confusing!

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:08 pm
Then you lack wit! Go educate yourself with some fine books and then come back and have a conversation. And learn how to puncuate and spell. I would have been smacked on the hand as a kid if I tried to write like you.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:10 pm
there is nothing wrong with my english thank you - please check who you are referring to and post directly to them.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:15 pm
You do have problems. You don't capitalize or punctuate properly.


i have never claimed wood to be good or bad - u r thinkin of sum 1 else - sorry

That is not English. It's some strange dialect kids tend to speak/write online.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:16 pm
if you are so greatly educated in the way of wit then you would know that in fact - sarcasm is the lowest form of wit (but the greatest form of intelligence' as quoted by lap of the goddess on February 10, 2004

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:18 pm
At least I have some wit. You have no wit at all. You can't take a joke and you can't be graceful in a conversation. I also find you very pessimistic. Much more so then the people you claim are being "mean" and "rude"

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 02:23 pm
i have never claimed wood to be good or bad - u r thinkin of sum 1 else - sorryHolly - Chat speak is NOT allowed on this forum.
u is properly spelled - you
i is always capitalized as such - I
sum 1 is spelled - someone

I am sick and tired of seeing the reminders for people to post properly.

GPPerson I am holding you personally responsible for the horrible lack of proper posting I have been seeing lately. The culprits are all people YOU invited to come here and back you up. If I see one more of your friends break rules on this forum not only am I giving them a one week ban I will be giving you one too.

I recommend that if you invite any more of your cronies onto this board to back up you neglectful pet ownership habits you warn them in advance about the rules here and that they will be STRICKTLY enforced from this point on. Personally I will not hand out any more warnings. I will hand out one week bannings. If, while you are on a banning, another of your friends decides to break the rules I will automatically up your banning to 2 weeks...and keep adding on from there.

You and your friends represent nearly everything this forum stands against. Get with the program or get off the forum. I have MUCH better things to be doing then to be dealing with a bunch of childish twits.

C&K
09-29-05, 02:24 pm
there is nothing wrong with my english thank you - please check who you are referring to and post directly to them.

I think that is for the Mod's to decide - and now you are giving orders?

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:24 pm
i am sorry, however i find this site to be incredibly pessimistic and the majority of people on it to be very mean and rude. you say i have no wit and so, i must enquire as to how you define wit so that i may meet your high standards, however, to what relevance the subject of wit and/or punctuation has to the welfare of guineas unless i am mistaken that guinea pig welfare is not paramount on this site i must question.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:29 pm
Well at the very least if you write properlly we can understand you.

If you want a definition of wit go to http://google.com and type "define:wit" in the search field.

Witty people tend to be wise and flexible. Thus witty person would be able to see the other side of the story and consider that they may indeed be wrong about something. Especially if so many people tell them so.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:30 pm
well if you could even spell PROPERLY correctly then maybe i could be bothered

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:32 pm
Oh my! I made one spelling mistake. Why don't you just slap me on the hand now? 99% of my post is proper. Most of yours is not.

Glad to know your shift key is indeed working. Maybe you should use it more.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 02:32 pm
yeah well u shouldnt have made a stupid comment such as that. i think sometimes you are very hurtful - it would be so nice to be able to discuss this in a friendly and open manner
Yes, it would. May I also comment that it is very hurtful if someone responds to your post with an unfriendly & pointless 'Whatever'. That was a stupid comment, not mine.:mad:

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:35 pm
what - to say to some one that her guinea pigs would rather die than live in 1 of her hutches - when she has just lost a lot of guineas to a terrible stomach bug (which was not her fault and could happen to any one of us) - i find that to be hurtful and incredibly insensitive.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:37 pm
I find everything you say hurtful, rude or spiteful. You want others to be friendly, yet you yourself are never really friendly. You also don't follow rules very well. The rest of us are not going to change just to please you.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 02:40 pm
My post has nothing to do with the bug her guinea pigs recently died of.. I am extremely sad to hear that happened.

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:40 pm
i have never asked any one to change - if you will refer back to the beginning of this subject you will find that i was not the first one to be rude, hurtful or spiteful - i am not any of these things. people were rude, nasty and spiteful first.

Cavie Cove
09-29-05, 02:44 pm
Yup, plain old toilet paper tubes. Just cut them in a spiral. My pigs love them. They chew them, they play tug of war with them, they bonk each other on the heads with them. They love tp rolls to bits, literally. I keep every roll we go through. They'll use 'em.
well if me gerbils chew on them I supose it'll be no harm for some certian guineas to have them (ie hair eating Poppy who eats hay and hair strange girl that she is...) and the ones who love to chew their wooden houses.
I laughed out loud at the "bonk each othe on the head" I can just see my fater and son pair doing this like what they do with carrots even though they have 6 pieces in with them they always HAVE to chose the same one!
I'll have to give everyother loo roll to the guineas and then the gerbils lol

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:45 pm
myspoiltpiggies - im not sure if cavyslave has read your post but i am sure that amid all this nastiness - she would very much appreciate your kind words of sympathy - i myself have recently lost 3 of my gorgeous little guineas - and i can't believe how much it has affected me - i sat up all night with the last piggie prince trying to syringe even a little bit of water into him and just cuddling him so he knew i was there unfortunately fate was against him and i lost him - i just reacted badly to a comment such as that as i know what she went through

DaCourt
09-29-05, 02:46 pm
Do you people not read ??
I have stated in previous posts it is very hard to house breeding boars together even if you give them 4ft or 6ft of space.
Also my hutches arent that easy to 'knock' together, they are wood remember and I would need to saw them.

Simple...don't breed. That eliminates the problem.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 02:46 pm
Well you don't help a whole lot. I don't agree with you or your friends, but I have tried to be helpful. I gave suggestions for easy ways to improve the cages. You may not like the suggestions, but at least I am trying to improve your cavies lives with as little disruption as possible. I also gave a link to a site that will tell you why wood is bad and what materials should be used for animal pens. You just have to look for it.

I have also talked nicely when other have talked nicely to me and have explained concepts and ideas that can be easily found on the main site of this forum. But if you decide to be rude and spiteful about it then I am not going to roll over and let you walk all over me. GPperson has had her good moments and Cavie Cove seems like an intelligent person who is slowly comming around. You just seem to like to log in and cause trouble. If you really wanted to have a nice intelligent conversation you would discover your shift key is good for more then yelling, shape up, and follow forum rules.

Cavie Cove
09-29-05, 02:50 pm
Cavie Cove seems like an intelligent person who is slowly comming around

:o em don't know what to say to that to be honest.
Does anyone ever hide food or put hay in the loo roll tube to give the guineas a bit of -I don't know how to say it- em make them think how to get the food?

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 02:50 pm
Holly - Your shift key is located both to the left and right of your keyboard. I recommend you develop a close and personal relationship with it quickly otherwise a 1 week banning for both you and GPPerson is looming.

For further information please scroll up and read my last post to you, number 784

LAST WARNING!

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 02:50 pm
You people are impossible to persuade. Anybody can see they are too small:crazy: Why won't you just admit it? If you get bigger cages - your guinea pigs will be happier, you will be happier, everyone will be! If space is the problem, you really can't keep them all.:guilty:

hollypigs
09-29-05, 02:51 pm
I never used my shift key to yell - i didnt even realise that is what capitals meant. i am very happy to discuss nicely in fact i would enjoy it a lot - in a way i find it admirable that there are so many people out there who are so passionate about the well being of these small but fantastic little creatures - if only there were more people out there who thought the same the world would be so much a better place - only last year when i was collecting one of my pigs back from the vets a young girl approx.17 came over and said 'is that a guinea pig' i replied yes - she laughed and said last year i had a guinea pig that froze to death in my cage' and she said this laughing.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 02:54 pm
Life is difficult for me even now thinking back on the lost of all my furry friends.
I am going to be moving out in the new year like I have posted before and I quote: My cages are fine and will be better in the future.
I can not knock any cages together at the moment because that will cause a great deal of fighting among my boars.


Simple...don't breed. That eliminates the problem.
Why shouldnt I? To make you happy, I enjoy breeding my cavies and look forward to the results. I have recently heard about OD with satin guineas and I mainly have these so breeding is at its smallest in my shed, I currently have 1 trio of Rexes, 1 pair of Abyssinians and 1 pair of Tri-Colours(boar satin and sow carrier). These have just been introduced and hopefully their will be no problems with the birth, I have only lost 2 sows in 6 years. One sow had a prolaspe and died the other got pyometra(sp?), an infection of the womb(just incase you didnt know what that is).

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 02:56 pm
I have only lost 2 sows in 6 years. One sow had a prolaspe and died the other got pyometra(sp?), an infection of the womb(just incase you didnt know what that is).
That would be enough for me to stop breeding:guilty: knowing that it was my fault they died would make me feel terrible.

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 02:59 pm
I never used my shift key to yell - i didnt even realise that is what capitals meant. You use the shift key to capitalize your I. You obviously know how to use it as you managed to capitalize the first I in your last post but all the other ones need to be capitalized too. Get it?!

hollypigs
09-29-05, 03:01 pm
in all honestly i didnt realise we werent allowed to use capitals - i sincerely apologise for this i truly didnt realise.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 03:02 pm
That would be enough for me to stop breeding:guilty: knowing that it was my fault they died would make me feel terrible.

Urm, let me see alot of cavies die in wild of infections, piglets getting suck but we dont complain about thoughs.
Its natural for all animals to make young, other wise they woundn't exhist!
Sometimes sows dont want to be mams and they are never bred again, take Eve, she had a litter recently and rejected the piglets/pups. I tried to handrear the other piglet/pup and he survived two days. Somethings are just not ment to be.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 03:08 pm
Don't you care about the pet overpopulation problem? In the wild they have preditors to keep thier numbers in check. They don't have that in your home. They aren't meant to have litter after litter since in the wild they wouldn't live that long.

I think it's sad that you don't care enough. That the "fun" you have in more important to you then even one homeless guinea pig. It's the same sadness I feel when I see someone mowing down on a Big Mac without thinking about the life they took. How can people take life, directly or indirectly and not care? People sicken me sometimes.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 03:14 pm
Don't you care about the pet overpopulation problem? In the wild they have preditors to keep thier numbers in check. They don't have that in your home. They aren't meant to have litter after litter since in the wild they wouldn't live that long.

I think it's sad that you don't care enough. That the "fun" you have in more important to you then even one homeless guinea pig. It's the same sadness I feel when I see someone mowing down on a Big Mac without thinking about the life they took. How can people take life, directly or indirectly and not care? People sicken me sometimes.

I do not breed again and again and again. The most litters a sow will have is 3. with a good long minimum of 5 months inbetween.
I am not overpopulating my shed because I only breed when necessary and I buy in new pigs when my others are no longer used for breeding.

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 03:17 pm
in all honestly i didnt realise we werent allowed to use capitals - i sincerely apologise for this i truly didnt realise.You can't honestly be that ignorant can you? I have a hard time comprehending why you cannot underatand me. I am at the point of deciding that you are simply trying to bait me into a fight. If that is your intention let me clue you in on something...I will not fight with you. I will simply ban you. I have been in no mood lately for inviting more grief into my life and you are beginning to bother me. I will explain this one more time, in small words so that you can understand.

On this forum we have a few rules. One of them is that you post properly. This means you must write out all of your words and not use "u" as a substitute for "you" or "sum 1" as a substitute for "someone". By substitute I mean "in place of".

We also want you to use proper capitalizetion. If you have more then a 3rd grade education I expect you would understand what that means. In case you don't understand here is an introduction to capitalization:

When writing, the first word in every sentance must be capitalized (example; The dog ran.). Proper Nouns such as names of people, places or things must be capitalized (example; John, United Kingdom, Oxbow pellets). When using the letter I to refer to yourself in a sentance it must be capitalized (example; It is hard for me to understand when I must capitalize.)

Maybe now you get it. If not then you should not be posting on forums and should be spending more time doing your schoolwork. If your posts do not improve I will not correct you further; I will ban you.

weaseldropping
09-29-05, 03:18 pm
Off topic,
Voodoojoint - are you okay after all the troubles in New Orleans?
I have been thinking about you, and the pigs have too.....

zakfoxmom
09-29-05, 03:32 pm
Boy have I missed Voodoojoint around here!

NewGPMom
09-29-05, 03:34 pm
Umm.....just to clarify the letter 'i' is always capitalized-like this I, when used alone as in referring to yourself. This is just proper English. There are many on here who don't use English as their primary language so it would be nice if you could just be nice and proper for those members. I don't think voodoo or any of the other mods should need to continue to explain this. How is it you can detect or understand sarcasm and not proper English?

On a sidenote, Voodoo, it's good to see you back. Hope things are improving for you. Take care.

Oops-Voodoo beat me to the explanation. Hope I didn't step on the your mega toes (sorry but hoping beyond hope that just a tad amount of humor will lighten things up here.)


in all honestly i didnt realise we werent allowed to use capitals - i sincerely apologise for this i truly didnt realise.

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 03:41 pm
Boy have I missed Voodoojoint around here!:mischievo I'm baaaaaaack!

ZakFoxMom - I will be going down to New Orleans this weekend to access my home, clean up, salvage and work on starting repairs/stave off further damage from the large tree that the satelite picture shows is on my house. While I'm there I hope to grab the GP magnet you won and send it off to you. I know, I know, "don't worry about it". I'm not worried, but while I'm there I may as well grab it. It should be okay as I have it in a ziplock bag. As long as it hasn't been looted, and I have no idea if my house was one of the looted homes, it should be where I left it, or reasonably near by. So pm me your address again so I have it on hand to send it out when I get back up north.

zakfoxmom
09-29-05, 03:45 pm
You know, I bet that magnet was a hot commodity :-) That was probably the first thing those darn looters went for. I bet they all circled around your house and fought to see who would get it first. hahaha!

I wish we lived closer, my husband and I would come help you and your family with the clean up and repairs.

salana
09-29-05, 03:47 pm
The forum does care just not it the way like this one does coming down on people like they are s**t(i thought i'd be polite), for not having 'the right size cages'.

Nobody has come down on you like that. Your persecution complex is very tiresome.

DocDolittle
09-29-05, 04:02 pm
I only breed when necessary

For the love of my sanity, woman, please answer the question that I have asked twice now: When is it necessary to breed? I just need one instance! You've said this three times now and my head's about to blow. You continually blurt information out but neglect to back it up! Stop already! And also, how can you live with yourself knowing that you caused death to not only one, but two guinea pigs? How are you still breeding?

Maybe you wouldn't have lost as many pigs when they got their stomach disease if they hadn't lived in such close quarters.

Voodoo- SO happy to see you okay again! It's really nice seeing you on more often now!

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 04:07 pm
For the love of my sanity, woman, please answer the question that I have asked twice now: When is it necessary to breed? I just need one instance! You've said this three times now and my head's about to blow. You continually blurt information out but neglect to back it up! Stop already! And also, how can you live with yourself knowing that you caused death to not only one, but two guinea pigs? How are you still breeding?

Maybe you wouldn't have lost as many pigs when they got their stomach disease if they hadn't lived in such close quarters.

I have covered both subjects before and I am not going to repeat myself.
I breed because I want to and breed to create a piggy close to the breed standards, not for money but because its enjoyable to show them and seeing them compete against each other for the closest bred standard.
I am living quiet happy at the moment, no problems here, just this forum saying s**t.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 04:14 pm
There are lots of things I want to do in life. I used to love to eat meat, but morally I find it wrong so I do not. I'd also like to tell my sister in laws what I think about them, win the lottery and move to Japan, but I cannot do any of those things. You are very immature if all you need to justify something is because you want too.

Glad to see you back VoodooJoint. Good luck with your house. I hope that pecan tree isn't in the way too much. But look on the bright side, next time you want to make pecan pie you won't even have to leave you house to get some pecans.

Mmmm, I want some vanilla pecan cake now. I make an awsome vanilla pecan cake. If I was there I would bake you one to cheer you up. :)

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 04:15 pm
I have covered both subjects before and I am not going to repeat myself.
I breed because I want to and breed to create a piggy close to the breed standards, not for money but because its enjoyable to show them and seeing them compete against each other for the closest bred standard.
I am living quiet happy at the moment, no problems here, just this forum saying s**t.If this forum gives you such a hard time and you are not enjoying answering our questions. Then why are you and your friends here? Obviously you will not change our minds about your neglectful attitude and treatment of your livestock so what is your point of staying around?

I would really like an answer as to why you are on this forum at all.

DaCourt
09-29-05, 04:15 pm
OK...so not only did you lose a sow, but also one of the pup? I don't think I could live with myself knowing I was responsible for all that death. And Yes, YOU were responsible...you put them in that position. You not only allowed them to die, you facilitated it.

Poor, poor piggies. Our hearts go out to all of you.

A4PigHome
09-29-05, 04:16 pm
Man, Voodoo, is it nice to see you back! It just wasn't quite the same around here without you.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 04:18 pm
Because of this topic I am here, these are my guineas we are talking about, and I wouldnt expect anyone who is getting talked about to sit around and do nothing.
I am not interested in your views and I will never change my mind, I am happy with the cages and will make them larger when the factilities come to me, until then nothing will happen.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 04:24 pm
OK...so not only did you lose a sow, but also one of the pup? I don't think I could live with myself knowing I was responsible for all that death. And Yes, YOU were responsible...you put them in that position. You not only allowed them to die, you facilitated it.

Poor, poor piggies. Our hearts go out to all of you.

Losing a piglet/pup was not my fault, they were premature, and I tried my hardest to rear it but sadly:weepy: he didnt survive. It isnt a high percentage of hand reared piglets die, because they dont get their mams first milk (colstrum) which has all the anti-bodies in to help the survive until they are a few weeks old and can start creating anti-bodies of their own.

DocDolittle
09-29-05, 04:25 pm
I have covered both subjects before and I am not going to repeat myself.
I breed because I want to and breed to create a piggy close to the breed standards, not for money but because its enjoyable to show them and seeing them compete against each other for the closest bred standard.
I am living quiet happy at the moment, no problems here, just this forum saying s**t.

When is it necessary to breed guinea pigs? You have yet to tell me! You say that you enjoy it, and that you want it, but these are completely different things from necessary! It's like when you hear some 8 year old kid whine, "But I need it!" No, they want it. For pure selfish reasons!

Are you aware that the pigs wouldn't have died in the first place if you hadn't bred them? Your fault.

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 04:25 pm
Losing a piglet/pup was not my fault, they were premature, and I tried my hardest to rear it but sadly:weepy: he didnt survive. It isnt a high percentage of hand reared piglets die, because they dont get their mams first milk (colstrum) which has all the anti-bodies in to help the survive until they are a few weeks old and can start creating anti-bodies of their own.Still your fault. You bred them, you caused the deaths.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 04:26 pm
You bred them. You put that boar and sow together and caused that pup to be conceived. You were in control. The blame is soley on you. If you had not bred them, that pup never would have suffered.

DaCourt
09-29-05, 04:32 pm
Thank you...that is my point exactly. If she hadn't put them together...none of them would have died.

Personally, if I were in your shoes, and was as convinced as you are that I was doing what was best for my animals, I wouldn't give hoot what some faceless people on a message board said about me or my animals. You have allowed this to bother you. Only you can do that...not anyone here. How can someone you have never met, put you in such a defensive stance? I'll tell you why...because deep down inside...you know we are right.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 04:34 pm
This thread has turned into more arguements. I am not going to defend what I do to this 'religious-cult' anymore. This was orginaly about my hutches and now you are blaming me for the deaths of my guineas.
Maybe you dont have anything better to do in your time?
Bored of this now.....:yawn:

DocDolittle
09-29-05, 04:35 pm
When is it necessary to breed guinea pigs? You have yet to tell me! You say that you enjoy it, and that you want it, but these are completely different things from necessary! It's like when you hear some 8 year old kid whine, "But I need it!" No, they want it. For pure selfish reasons!


Please, I'm asking you nicely now when is it necessary? Answer my question that I'm asking for the fifth time.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 04:36 pm
Why are you here if it is so boring? Go off and do something "fun" then.

There would have been no argument if you didn't come on here huffing and puffing. So what if someone posted a pic of your cages? This is a cage site. It is natural for a cage site to critque other cages.

ilovpiggiesthei
09-29-05, 04:38 pm
Stop demandinng Emma to ask questions?!
Why is it nesseary to be so rude?

NewGPMom
09-29-05, 04:38 pm
Doc, there you have your answer (I think). If I understand the reply, it is never necessary to breed. It's not about the piggies health that she has the utmost respect for. It's all about her enjoyment that matters most. If she gets that one perfect pig to 'show and see them compete against each other for the closest bred standard' then it has all been worthwhile.

I damn near lost my piggie due to the pet stores (before I knew better) neglect to seperate males from females. I spent almost $200 in medicine and visits to save her for something that I had no control over (or so I thought at the time). How in the hell can you justify losing a sow for your own self pleasure. I guess you can justify it and sleep better at night by saying you have only lost two to your self indulgence. One should have been enough to lose if you have half a heart/brain. *sadly shakes head*
How many do you have to lose before you change your views in breeding? How can you say it breaks your heart to lose them and continue to breed? Please, I would like an honest heartfelt answer if you can because I just don't understand that logic.

Honestly, why are you still here? You are against everything this board stands for. It seems to me that if you truly want the insults to stop, you will go away as you will never sway these members into your way of thinking. Afterall, you don't care what we think so why continue to stick around. You've already agreed to disagree yet here you are continuing to defend your selfish actions. For what? There are other ways to get your jollies if you need to.

DaCourt
09-29-05, 04:41 pm
This thread has turned into more arguements. I am not going to defend what I do to this 'religious-cult' anymore. This was orginaly about my hutches and now you are blaming me for the deaths of my guineas.
Maybe you dont have anything better to do in your time?
Bored of this now.....:yawn:

Well, if the death fits...OWN UP TO IT!!

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 04:43 pm
Why are you here if it is so boring? Go off and do something "fun" then.

There would have been no argument if you didn't come on here huffing and puffing. So what if someone posted a pic of your cages? This is a cage site. It is natural for a cage site to critque other cages.

My nice advice, before getting your hairs on an end about these cages why dont you use some common sence and ask questions instead of posting things like...
What an ignorant fool. from DrDolittle
how selfish from Piglet
seem to have become so preoccupied in winning and making money from Guinea_Gal
We should jam them into closets for the rest of their lives from RubyPiggie2
I really do not appreciate how breeders view living, breathing creatures as "stock", like merchandise. from ChadWPB
Seeing as she has 30-40+ pigs, I bet she doesnt have enough time to feed and fill all the water bottels in one day, and def. not enough to spend even 5 mins with each pig...:( from _Saywa_My_Piggy

Find out more information on them, you wouldnt like it now would you?

ilovpiggiesthei
09-29-05, 04:45 pm
Well said Emma

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 04:46 pm
Afterall, you don't care what we think so why continue to stick around. You've already agreed to disagree yet here you are continuing to defend your selfish actions. For what? There are other ways to get your jollies if you need to.

Because this post is still going on and I think the Admin or Mods should close it, like I said previously they maybe liking all the attension this site is getting, all the Ratings and Numbers!

NewGPMom
09-29-05, 04:51 pm
Well said Emma

Yes, well said for nothing worthwhile.

Please, if you're bored with this thread, go away and I can give you a 99% guarantee that this thread will go away with you because without you and your cronies to back you up, there will be no further reason to reply. Forty-two pages later and nothing worthwhile has been said you or any of your friends Emma.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 04:55 pm
Not really. Only a handful of people are still arguing this. Lots of other threads are going on as we speak. How does this thread boost ratings at all? It doesn't matter if you have a bunch of short threads or one long thread, post count is post count.

I could try to start a huge argument on my tiny board, but unless you already have a large membership it won't really matter. Unless like in this thread you have a whole bunch of people join just to heckle long time members.

Why does it matter to you if this post is still going? Why does it matter what we say about your cages? It only matters because you make it matter. You feel deep down that your cages are too small.

NewGPMom
09-29-05, 04:56 pm
Because this post is still going on and I think the Admin or Mods should close it, like I said previously they maybe liking all the attension this site is getting, all the Ratings and Numbers!

The only attention this site is getting is from its regular members who have the same old beliefs they always have and your cronies. Its not like it's gotten national news and created a bunch of new members because of this thread. So, how do you figure the mods are liking all the attention the site it getting. It is no less or no more than always, except for you and your friends. Why not just go to another forum where people share your views? Seems to me that is the best way to get this to stop.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 04:59 pm
They are probably enjoying the attention. This is probably the most attention they have ever received online.

NewGPMom
09-29-05, 05:02 pm
They are probably enjoying the attention. This is probably the most attention they have ever received online.

I agree 100% with that.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 05:14 pm
They are probably enjoying the attention. This is probably the most attention they have ever received online.

I agree 100% with that.

Keep digging that hole! Wow attention, I bet I never receive any attension.
Well you are wrong and I dont give a s**t what you think.
Why do you think I am attention seaking? If I wanted the attention I would get it from somewhere who arent as arrogant animal rights people who FLAME everyone who get in their way.
You judge us(breeders) and say the majority of us just want to make money, which is untrue(well in my case and a few others), when you are the ones who fit the majority category, since a lot of animal rights groups really spend the money for whatever they want.
You love attacking other people, who dont do as you say!
Why are you wasting you time, moaning about my cages when are plenty more people in this world who dont treat their animal fairly.

salana
09-29-05, 05:27 pm
Ah, the flaming of "animal rights people". I wondered when we were going to get to this.

Weren't you leaving this forum about 20 pages ago? Are we going to have to ban you for trolling with your semi-literate friends to get you to do what you should be mature enough to do for yourself--walk away?

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 05:32 pm
Trolling? When have I been trolling? Prove it!
Before I go I must get this annoying e-mail update to stop.

salana
09-29-05, 05:39 pm
You have been trolling in this thread (http://cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6336), and you still are.

Can you read? Try reading the "annoying e-mail update" next time. It tells you how to unsubscribe.

DocDolittle
09-29-05, 05:39 pm
My nice advice, before getting your hairs on an end about these cages why dont you use some common sence and ask questions instead of posting things like...
What an ignorant fool. from DrDolittle
how selfish from Piglet
seem to have become so preoccupied in winning and making money from Guinea_Gal
We should jam them into closets for the rest of their lives from RubyPiggie2
I really do not appreciate how breeders view living, breathing creatures as "stock", like merchandise. from ChadWPB
Seeing as she has 30-40+ pigs, I bet she doesnt have enough time to feed and fill all the water bottels in one day, and def. not enough to spend even 5 mins with each pig...:( from _Saywa_My_Piggy

Find out more information on them, you wouldnt like it now would you?

We haven't given you info or asked any questions in the past 42 questions? Uh, no. In fact, we've given tons of suggestions to you and you've yet to answer my question.

And also, you're not in favor of animal rights? That just adds fuel to the fire! As a breeder, who's not in favor of animal rights, it just shows us more about how much you 'care' about pigs. And also,let me say that it makes me sad that you think considering our piggies feelings and giving them a healthy and happy life is animal rights.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 05:48 pm
You have been trolling in this thread (http://cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6336), and you still are.

Can you read? Try reading the "annoying e-mail update" next time. It tells you how to unsubscribe.
I have done it!


We haven't given you info or asked any questions in the past 42 questions? Uh, no. In fact, we've given tons of suggestions to you and you've yet to answer my question.

And also, you're not in favor of animal rights? That just adds fuel to the fire! As a breeder, who's not in favor of animal rights, it just shows us more about how much you 'care' about pigs. And also,let me say that it makes me sad that you think considering our piggies feelings and giving them a healthy and happy life is animal rights.

I do care about animal rights but not your preaching(sp?) I f**king annoys me, how you can sit happy at home preaching about my cages!
GET A LIFE, go and make more C&C Cages, or maybe spend sometime with your guinea pigs you go on about soo much!

C&K
09-29-05, 06:07 pm
Yes, well said for nothing worthwhile.

Please, if you're bored with this thread, go away and I can give you a 99% guarantee that this thread will go away with you because without you and your cronies to back you up, there will be no further reason to reply. Forty-two pages later and nothing worthwhile has been said you or any of your friends Emma.

I agree with you on this one NewGPmom...

On many occasions when she doesn't post, this thread quiets down and the topic turns away from her, but she always comes back with vengance, to make sure we don't forget her. Today her friend Gracie comes along and (post #718) reminds us that she has not posted in 25 posts and says we are the ones raking old ground... Yet that last comment about her was made over 10 hours prior and 10 posts before hand. *Sigh* The current conversation had nothing to do with the Queen. When the Queen does return, what does she do? Well, lets stir the pot again, and get up on her high horse to let the whole forum know that still wants to argue about cage sizes, and throw in the bait, see if they take it, yet again, more pictures of disguestingly small cages... At least that is what she saying they are, I did not look, and no one else seemed to take the bait either, as these pictures where ignored... She is not part of this community, she does not want to be. one else support. She wants a C&C cage hand delivered, however I think that most of us can think of 3 rescues off the top of our heads that need our support more then any breeder. All she does is create a ruckus, and the fact that she once again mentions that she wants the mods to close the thread I think shows her true intentions, to keep being a pain in the butt until she wins; and now she is upping the anti with using increasingly profane language thinking that if she **'s out two letters it is ok?

:melodrama
*sigh*

Really, who is it that needs to get a life?

Sabriel
09-29-05, 06:08 pm
My my, temper temper. Have we touched a nerve?

We do spend time with out guinea pigs, we sit with them while we surf or work on the computer. Oh wait, your friend told us that was exploitation.

DocDolittle
09-29-05, 06:13 pm
My my, temper temper. Have we touched a nerve?

We do spend time with out guinea pigs, we sit with them while we surf or work on the computer. Oh wait, your friend told us that was explotation.

Here, Here!

enchantingcavy
09-29-05, 07:28 pm
Guys talking to GPPerson in regards to her cage sizes obviously isn't sinking in...

Why dosn't someone either 1: go over there and check her place out or 2: just report straight to the RSPCA and then they'll either give her the all clear or will do something about it if it's not acceptable...Get someone over there that's all I can say...I've reported a couple of breeders that mistreat their animals and keep them in appauling conditions and these situations have been dealt with....

Some breeders are just in complete DENIAL of what a healthy and satisfactory diet and living condition should be...I've dealt with a couple of breeders for months on end trying to HELP THEM and teach them what a good diet is and cage space is per animal etc but if they don't apply it then it's time to take a step up and do something about it because they certainly arn't...

I'm really concerned that GPPerson thinks her cages are an acceptable size and can't see they are to small and if i lived in your country or town then right now I'd be dealing with this situation.

Those photos of your boars were not good they looked underweight, the sheltie ( longhair ) in the pic had a dry thinned out coat and looks like he's also dropped his undercoat...all signs of diet related problems...LOOK AT THE BL%^& SIGNS:confused:

Maybe you just havn't owned guinea pigs for long and havn't done much research on them. Is that the problem??? Or is it that you have never seen what a healthy guinea pig looks like in person??? It seems alot of people on here are trying to offer you helpful advice but you continue to disagree with everyone....I am only extremely new to this forum and my animals arn't kept in connector cages ( altho i do have two of them hehe ) so I assure you it's not just people on here that will tell you these things....Alot of people on forums won't SPEAK UP if they see a picture of someones setup that is inadequate but you have entered a forum where they focus on cages and guinea pig health and happniness etc....these people will speak up and be honest because that's what this forum is all about....that's the only difference so if people on other forums are not saying anything bad about your setup it's just because they are either being polite or they couldn't be bothered speaking up....

*~jess~*

Pfft I'm not gonna bother posting in this thread anymore because I don't want to encourage the pointless debate with gpperson anymore....it's pointless because she thinks she's in the right and the only way to make someone like this understand is to do something about it in person i reckon....
Pity im in australia....

PS: You know why people are preaching non stop about your cages...it's because they CARE...they care about the wellbeing of these guinea pigs...

CavySpirit
09-29-05, 07:51 pm
I am NOT closing this thread. However, the following people have been demoted:

GPperson
gracie
Ilovpiggiesthei
pegs mom
Biccy
hollypigs

You may still post on the main forums. You will no longer be able to post in the Kitchen or on the Vegetarian forum. Any inappropriate threads or posts made in those forums will be moved to this forum, so don't bother. Any more crappy punctuation posts made will result in immediate banning. Enough warnings already. Get a clue and show some respect to the people who have to read your posts.

You've all said all you need to say here. You are done.

JiggityJig
09-29-05, 09:49 pm
THANK YOU!

Pimm'sPages, or whatever it's called, was the first piggy board I found when we got our pig, and I read and read and read there, and got a lot of the beginner info I needed on basic cavy care there.

Then there was just an influx of kids posting there or something. Again, nothing against kids, because we certainly have plenty here that manage to post intelligently. But the chat speak has made that board positively unreadable!!! It makes my head hurt to wade through all that, only to discover that embedded in that lazy, cryptic chat code is....nothing. Absolutely nothing of substance or sense. Maddening!

SO glad that this board is not being allowed to go to pot that way!~ Thank you again!

salana
09-29-05, 09:53 pm
I f**king annoys me,

She f**king annoys me, too.


how you can sit happy at home preaching about my cages!

Unlike her, I don't base my happiness on things said to me online.

DaCourt
09-29-05, 10:02 pm
Salana...I was thinking the same thing.

Funnygpigs
09-29-05, 10:06 pm
Wow, this was quit the theatrical thread! I decided to step out of the madness, but now that certain individuals can not post more rudness, I want to say, that I watched this instead of TV tonight---LOL!

Thank you cavyspirit for getting rid of them! They were obnoxiouse (sp?).

JiggityJig
09-29-05, 10:15 pm
Oh, and I'd like to thank Cavie Cove and EnchantingCavy for chiming in on this thread with their own brand of sanity and sense.

*NOTE TO EMMA AND CREW (since they seem to need to have things spelled out for them in a very plain fashion): These two posters condone breeding, and don't house all their cavies in C&C cages, or even C&C recommended sizes. We might disagree with them, but they were not rudely attacked because...GUESS WHAT?! *they* did not attack rudely. I'm sure they weren't always happy with some of the things they read here on both sides of the issue, but they presented their perspectives with maturity and eloquence. Do you see the lesson to be learned, here?*

I do think that other points of view are valuable in any worthwhile discussion, so again, thank you ladies, and I hope to see you around on other (less volatile!) threads.

Ly&Pigs
09-29-05, 10:16 pm
Unfortunately they aren't totally gone, but they can't come on the kitchen or veggie forums. I have a feeling they will be around causing more problems, but that's ok because I will have my ban button at the ready and it won't be a temporary ban either. Speaking of banning, hollypigs is getting a two week banning for many repeated warnings to post properly. Maybe that will teach that we mean what we say in regards to warnings and rules.

Funnygpigs
09-29-05, 10:19 pm
Good job Ly!:D
Unfortunately they aren't totally gone, but they can't come on the kitchen or veggie forums. I have a feeling they will be around causing more problems, but that's ok because I will have my ban button at the ready and it won't be a temporary ban either. Speaking of banning, hollypigs is getting a two week banning for many repeated warnings to post properly. Maybe that will teach that we mean what we say in regards to warnings and rules.

LuvMyPiggers
09-30-05, 05:56 am
Wow. I always seem to get here late and be the part pooper :D Oh well... Anyways I have a couple things to say...

1) I think the accusation that Slap is a bad owner is rubbish. Slap feeds her pigs every day and every night. She provides them with many toys that sadly, alot of piggies couldn't even dream of, and she is there for them every day.

2) It's true. A NATURAL enviroment would be in the Andes with natural food, but I think the point we are trying to get across is that even if our cages aren't %110 all natural, we're trying to give our piggies the best. And that counts.

So long and goodnight! Even if it is already morning :)

Sabriel
09-30-05, 07:08 am
Our pigs may not be in a natural enviroment, but they are no longer wild cavies anymore. If we were to take all of our cavies and bring them out to the Andes and set them free, they would not survive, nor would they be happy. They would miss their comfy cages, their pellets, and their cut veggies, not to mention the variety of greens. They don't have orange slices and bananas in the Andes.

Cavie Cove
09-30-05, 08:10 am
Oh, and I'd like to thank Cavie Cove and EnchantingCavy for chiming in on this thread with their own brand of sanity and sense.
I take it that I have been okay then?
I just saw no sence in been rude or nasty or anything like that when I have been *trying* to see it from you'r points of views and I have seen no reason to have a go or be rude to anyone at all so..
I'd like to thank you.

Funnygpigs
09-30-05, 08:41 am
Yup, they are no longer wild. They have been domesticated, and wild cavies dont exsist in the wild anymore. The only cavies that roam the "wild" are domesticated cavies that have been released into the wild, and have formed colonies. Domestic cavies could not survive and thrive in the wild.
Our pigs may not be in a natural enviroment, but they are no longer wild cavies anymore. If we were to take all of our cavies and bring them out to the Andes and set them free, they would not survive, nor would they be happy. They would miss their comfy cages, their pellets, and their cut veggies, not to mention the variety of greens. They don't have orange slices and bananas in the Andes.

Cavie Cove
09-30-05, 08:51 am
Yup, they are no longer wild. They have been domesticated, and wild cavies dont exsist in the wild anymore.

I never knew this. I thought they were alive and well up in South America.
Just goes to show you learn something new everyday.

C&K
09-30-05, 09:02 am
I take it that I have been okay then?
I just saw no sence in been rude or nasty or anything like that when I have been *trying* to see it from you'r points of views and I have seen no reason to have a go or be rude to anyone at all so..
I'd like to thank you.

I think that after the fiasco, most people can appreciate the calmness and sense that you have shown in your postings. As was said before, even though you where in a situation of disagreement, you did not resort to childish games or nonesense, nor did you talk yourself in circles. In truth, I think you may have held yourself up better then myself at times. You have very strong charactor(sp?) to not get dragged into the muck of stuff.

We may still have some differing opinions, but I can only hope, the longer you are here, the more likely it is you may choose to concentrate on your rescue and give up breeding altogether.

I hope we see you regularly in Cavy Chat, and that this lame thread is not goodbye. You have the potential to be a real asset to the community.

C&K
09-30-05, 09:08 am
I never knew this. I thought they were alive and well up in South America.
Just goes to show you learn something new everyday.

I found this to be a very interesting webpage on the history of the guinea pig.

http://cavyhistory.tripod.com/

Cavie Cove
09-30-05, 09:12 am
The family Caviidae is first distinguished geologically during the Miocene and today consists of three genera and over 20 species confined to the South American continent.
so are they or arn't they?

daftscotslass
09-30-05, 09:18 am
so are they or arn't they?

Yes, there are cavies in the wild. However, most of them don't look like the domestic guinea pigs we know and love. The cavy family is large and very diverse. As far as I know, Cavia porcellus, the scientific name for the cavies we all know, is not found in the wild.

Cavie Cove
09-30-05, 09:22 am
Ah I see. Thanks for clering that up for me. I think I'm going to have to write this all down somewhere.

LuvMyPiggers
09-30-05, 10:25 am
Oh.. I wasn't trying to say that the habitats aren't natural. Just nearly stating that they are domesticated in a condensed way.

Sabriel
09-30-05, 11:12 am
Then we are just saying the same thing different ways :)

Funnygpigs
09-30-05, 11:32 am
Actually, that is not correct. "Guinea pigs or Cavia porcellus are not known in the wild, but you'll find domestic guinea pigs worldwide in captivity. It is believed that the Incas in Peru originally domesticated them."

Quoted from:http://www.kaytee.com/companion_animals/mammals/guinea_pig/

G-pigs live in their domesticated form in parts of the world. They are raised/released to form colonies. So, I could see that some people would think they lived in the wild. Some colonies breed, and survive. These are not the original, wild, native cavies! They also have relatives of the cavy family that do live in the wild.:D


Yes, there are cavies in the wild. However, most of them don't look like the domestic guinea pigs we know and love. The cavy family is large and very diverse. As far as I know, Cavia porcellus, the scientific name for the cavies we all know, is not found in the wild.

C&K
09-30-05, 11:55 am
I thought that the domestic Cavia porcellus came from a form of wild Cavia porcellus that is now extinct, and that Cavia porcellus (our guinea pigs) have in some cases gone ferral. However, I thought that there are a few that do debate this, and suggest that the domestic Cavia pocellus is really not significantly different from what was a wild Cavia pocellus, therefore, the ferral populations are actually a reintroduction of the species after total extrapation, not extinction...

The most important thing to note though is that not all Cavia are guinea pigs. Cavia are a somwhat diverse family on the rodent tree.



Actually, that is not correct. "Guinea pigs or Cavia porcellus are not known in the wild, but you'll find domestic guinea pigs worldwide in captivity. It is believed that the Incas in Peru originally domesticated them."

Quoted from:http://www.kaytee.com/companion_animals/mammals/guinea_pig/

G-pigs live in their domesticated form in parts of the world. They are raised/released to form colonies. So, I could see that some people would think they lived in the wild. Some colonies breed, and survive. These are not the original, wild, native cavies! They also have relatives of the cavy family that do live in the wild.:D

Funnygpigs
09-30-05, 12:10 pm
I thought that the domestic Cavia porcellus came from a form of wild Cavia porcellus that is now extinct, and that Cavia porcellus (our guinea pigs) have in some cases gone ferral.

I agree! ;)

Ly&Pigs
09-30-05, 02:07 pm
Here is some interesting reading:
http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S0716-078X2004000200004&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/g/gu/guinea_pig.html

From Wikopedia:
Although there are more than 20 different species, the one most familiar to people is C. porcellus, the common guinea pig. For more read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavies, they even mention T and C&C cages.

Cavia porcellus is a term that was given to domesticated pigs, wild guinea pigs are not called cavia porcellus, but some wild pigs are cavia aperea and galea, the latter being the newer species that was discovered in South America.

To add, do a web search for "wild guinea pigs" and you will find many good pages to read about them. Wild guinea pigs still do exist in South America.

salana
09-30-05, 02:43 pm
Wild guinea pigs don't look like this:
http://www.doominous.org/pigs/cuddlessexyfeets050325.jpg

weaseldropping
09-30-05, 03:10 pm
What's he watching on TV?
It looks interesting!

Myspoiltpiggies
09-30-05, 03:26 pm
ahh piggy feet are so cute.:)

NewGPMom
09-30-05, 03:34 pm
Nice bum too!

Myspoiltpiggies
09-30-05, 03:36 pm
She/he has lovely colouring, that's for sure!!! I love the colour of her fur:)

DocDolittle
09-30-05, 03:51 pm
Hah! Guinea Pig butt! That's too cute!

Funnygpigs
09-30-05, 04:04 pm
AHhh, no wild guinea pig could lay around on a cumfy towel, watching TV. Hahaha. What a cute pig! :0)

Myspoiltpiggies
09-30-05, 04:34 pm
Haha these days guinea pigs live in luxury cages with a TV to watch and a cuddle cup to lay in.. who needs *natural environments*:yuck: Dogs don't live in natural environments.. in fact no demesticated animal does... :cheerful:

salana
10-01-05, 09:31 am
I think she was actually watching my friend Manda play the Sims. Cuddles would so not have lived to 4 and a half in the wild. At 3 she had a 3cm cyst on her right ovary and had to be spayed. She died this past August of cancer or a lung infection that disintegrated her lung.

She was a big ol' fatty with a bad attitude and the jowls of a southern senator.

lilipution1013
10-01-05, 04:25 pm
I think she was actually watching my friend Manda play the Sims. Cuddles would so not have lived to 4 and a half in the wild. At 3 she had a 3cm cyst on her right ovary and had to be spayed. She died this past August of cancer or a lung infection that disintegrated her lung.

She was a big ol' fatty with a bad attitude and the jowls of a southern senator.
LOL, adorable! I'm a Sims nerd... was it Sims 1 or 2? Does your friend have the expansion packs? Nightlife kinda sucks in my opinion.

But that was amazingly off-topic.

I'm sorry about Cuddles, poor dear. How exactly did you find out about the cyst? I'm always wondering if minor changes in my piggies' behaviour means illness or boredom.

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 06:37 am
Hi my name is Josie :) Sorry but just saying GPperson is a great friend of mine, and she looks after her pigs very well. My cages asre bout the same size as hers and my pigs are sooo happy. You should see George popcorn!

Anyway not trying to stir up trouble I'm just saying.

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 06:55 am
Sorry Josie. You came in about 887 posts too late!

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 07:02 am
I know lol. I've been visiting the forum for ages then I registered when Emma came on and the discussion became heated. But I couldn't post because I was being added to the moderation queue (?) I was Josie.

VoodooJoint
10-02-05, 07:05 am
Hi my name is Josie :) Sorry but just saying GPperson is a great friend of mine, and she looks after her pigs very well. My cages asre bout the same size as hers and my pigs are sooo happy. You should see George popcorn!

Anyway not trying to stir up trouble I'm just saying.I really wish you, GPPerson and all of her cronies she is inviting onto this board would get it through your heads that she, and probably most of you, do not meet our criteria of a responsible pet owner.

We have a very high criteria of pet ownership around here. Keeping guinea pigs in a shed, in small cages, showing and breeding is neglectful, abusive and irresponible. There is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, any of you can say to change our minds. Stop using these animals to stroke your egos and stop treating them as livestock and then maybe we have something to discuss. Until then you may as well save your breath.

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 07:17 am
I am not a large scale breeder. I have 7 piggers, 6 sows and 1 boar, they are my babies. :love: My Panda is due within the next 2 weeks and you would not believe how nervous I am! This is the first litter to be born that I own. They are in a shed because I'm not allowed them indoors, I begged and begged but my mum wouldn't let me.:(

You know it would be nice if you got to know me before you go round throwing accusations at me.:ashamed:

And Emma didn't invite ANY of us by the way.

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 07:29 am
I am not a large scale breeder. I have 7 piggers, 6 sows and 1 boar, they are my babies. :love: My Panda is due within the next 2 weeks and you would not believe how nervous I am! This is the first litter to be born that I own. They are in a shed because I'm not allowed them indoors, I begged and begged but my mum wouldn't let me.:(

You know it would be nice if you got to know me before you go round throwing accusations at me.:ashamed:

And Emma didn't invite ANY of us by the way.

If you knew anything about piggies you wouldn't be breeding them. I take it you have full health records and genotypes of the parents to prevent lethal crosses and various abnormalities? What would you do if one of your babies was born deaf, blind with no/malformed teeth and extra toes? I hope you have plans for all the babies, even if there are 5 of them?

Emma didn't invite you, I'm sure. But she's spent enough time whinging about this thread on the other site that you all came here of your own accord.

VoodooJoint
10-02-05, 07:30 am
But I couldn't post because I was being added to the moderation queue (?) I was Josie.First off you weren't added to the moderation queue, you simply didn't register correctly and were listed as a "New Member" by your own actions. Misregistering automatically limits your activities on this board

Don't get your hopes up though. I'm submitting you to the Administrator for a quick demotion.

I am not a large scale breeder. I have 7 piggers, 6 sows and 1 boar, they are my babies. :love: My Panda is due within the next 2 weeks and you would not believe how nervous I am! This is the first litter to be born that I own. They are in a shed because I'm not allowed them indoors, I begged and begged but my mum wouldn't let me.:(

You know it would be nice if you got to know me before you go round throwing accusations at me.:ashamed: .You just admited that you keep your animals outside in a shed and breed them. I think I was pretty clear when I said we do not condone those things.

I have nothing nice to say about you or the way you treat your animals. You treat your "pets" like livestock by keeping them outside. You even seem to know it is not appropriate, yet because of your selfishness you do it anyway when you should be waiting until you have your own place and can keep animals in better conditions.

You breed your animals, thus playing with their lives. If you really cared about their well being you wouldn't risk it. No, people like you enjoy the power trip and ego stroke of breeding. I don't care if you're are nervous; it's not like it's your life that is at stake. It's just some animal that you keep outside in a dreary shed. If she had complications giving birth you wouldn't even know because you don't have the decency to keep the Guinea Pigs in the house.

Whine all you want about being a good owner. The truth is you are neglectful and selfish and should be ashamed.

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 07:38 am
I AM NOT neglectful and selfish. I go to school five and a half days a week. And spend what I have left of the weekend with my pigs. As soon as I get off the bus after school, I spend an hour in the shed with them. They have two handfuls of hay every night, get veg every night, I spend so long talking about them I have no friends cause I am labelled "The guinea pig freak" by my whole school. And I put up with it. Why? Because yeah of course I hate my pigs they're horrid.

WHATEVER!!!!

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 07:43 am
I AM NOT neglectful and selfish. I go to school five and a half days a week. And spend what I have left of the weekend with my pigs. As soon as I get off the bus after school, I spend an hour in the shed with them. They have two handfuls of hay every night, get veg every night, I spend so long talking about them I have no friends cause I am labelled "The guinea pig freak" by my whole school. And I put up with it. Why? Because yeah of course I hate my pigs they're horrid.

WHATEVER!!!!

That's very strange. My friends used to love coming round to see my piggies when I was at school. I would feel so guilty it would hurt if I only handled my pigs for an hour each day.

Sorry, you can say what you want on here but nothing will justify to us the way you keep your pigs.

VoodooJoint
10-02-05, 07:48 am
The truth hurts doesn't it? You knew what you were doing when you came on this board. Don't get all self righteous.

You breed - dangerous, selfish and not what you do to a cherished pet.

You keep them in a shed yet call them your babies - I have never kept any of my pets in a shed, much less my babies.

You spend a whole hour a day with them - Give me a break. That's nothing. So if one of your animals gets sick you wouldn't even know for 23 hours?! That can mean life or death. I certainly hope Panda doesn't have complications in her birth. Your level of care means that she could suffer for 23 hours before you even notice her. Keep calling yourself a responsible pet owner, you won't convince me, but maybe, one day, you will convince yourself.

With a self centered attitude like yours I bet that it's not just because you are a "Guinea Pig Freak" that you don't have friends.

twofinepigs
10-02-05, 08:02 am
"They have two handfuls of hay every night..."

That's odd...I just gave my pigs two big handsful of hay when I got up an hour ago, and it's gone. They'll get more than that before I leave for work and it'll be gone when I get home so they'll get more then. Then they'll get more when I go to bed.

Either my pigs are gluttons or I have abnormally small hands. ;)

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 08:57 am
"They have two handfuls of hay every night..."

That's odd...I just gave my pigs two big handsful of hay when I got up an hour ago, and it's gone. They'll get more than that before I leave for work and it'll be gone when I get home so they'll get more then. Then they'll get more when I go to bed.

Either my pigs are gluttons or I have abnormally small hands. ;)
*Deep breath*

Okay, I am going to try not to get cross as I really dont want to be banned. I came on here in the hope that I could show you how you can be a breeder AND have happy pigs. Not to be accused of being a horrid person and being 'neglectful and selfish' (which I'm not) I will ignore all of what has just been said and say to you~

Does this pig honestly look unhappy to you?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/capuccino/Josiespics.jpg

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 08:58 am
Sorry about that haven't quite mastered the art of picture resizing lol

Slap Maxwell
10-02-05, 09:03 am
Breeder "how to" disscusions are not allowed.

And yes, the pig is probably happy because he is out of his litter box sized cage.

C&K
10-02-05, 09:14 am
"They have two handfuls of hay every night..."

That's odd...I just gave my pigs two big handsful of hay when I got up an hour ago, and it's gone. They'll get more than that before I leave for work and it'll be gone when I get home so they'll get more then. Then they'll get more when I go to bed.

Either my pigs are gluttons or I have abnormally small hands. ;)

I agree, it seems like so many of these people come on here upset that we are "judging them" and "don't know them" and then turn around and graphically discribe exactly how they mistreat of their pets.

I find it rather odd behaivor actually, but to each his own.

Honestly, I don't understand the arguement that I am a nice person, this board is not about nice people, it is about the responsible ownership of piggies.

I want a Walker Treehound dog, but I am not getting one anytime soon because I don't have the ability to properly take care of it; my house is to small and my kids are to young. Putting it in the "garage" and spending an hour a day with it is not acceptable.

Anyone who does not spend more then an hour a day around their piggies probably should not have them, and anyone who only provides two handfuls of hay and not unlimited hay is definately not doing their pigs any favours.

I am not going to beat old ground on the breeding and size issues. I think more then enough has been said. Thanks Voodoo, you rock!

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 09:17 am
Erm Slap, that wasnt a how to.;)

And Actually Toffee (sow) lives HERE!!!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/capuccino/IMG_0929.jpg

Myspoiltpiggies
10-02-05, 09:51 am
Oh my.. they don't even live in a shed... they live in the garden!!:eek: You really need to have them indoors - shed or house.. house being better. I have 16 guinea pigs myself and have just persuaded my mum and dad to let me have 2 in my room. I wish I could have them all in the house. Also how many guinea pigs are in that hutch? I thought three at first but now I think I can see five:eek:

Sabriel
10-02-05, 10:05 am
You should go to general chat and read "A home for Christmas". Maybe if you see things for you pigs point of view, you may start to think about why you have them outside in the cold.

I spend much more then an hour a day with my pigs. When I am on the computer I have at least one on my lap or in the basket next to my computer. I bought the basket and made a quilted liner for it especially for them, so I could spend even more time with them. They also watch TV and movies with me.

I think it's sad that your pigs spend thier lives outside in a dark damp looking little box. :sad: I think if you were to take a look in the galleries you would see a whole lot of happy pigs in large indoor cages.

Lina is happily "chatting" on my lap and giving me kisses as I type. How can you deny yourself and your pets such bonding time?

Ly&Pigs
10-02-05, 10:38 am
The only thing worse than a breeder is a teenaged breeder. Teens should under NO circumstances be allowed to breed. Josie, you are nothing more than a teenaged backyard breeder. You certainly aren't a responsible breeder by any definition. I am tired of being as nice as possible to you lot of breeders.

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 10:41 am
There was 4 in that hutch and run for 4 years then 5 for a month now there is 2 in there. AND I ALREADY said I am (younger than 18) and would LOVE to have my pigs indoors but there is the mum factor.

Sabriel- I would love to have a piggy or two with me while I'm on the computer, do you know where I can get one?

DocDolittle
10-02-05, 10:43 am
There was 4 in that hutch and run for 4 years then 5 for a month now there is 2 in there. AND I ALREADY said I am (younger than 18) and would LOVE to have my pigs indoors but there is the mum factor.

There are five in that hutch? That's ridiculous. Cage standards here say that five should probably have a 2x6 or 2x7(I believe). Your's doesn't even look to be a 2x4. And maybe you shouldn't own so many with the 'mum' factor. You should have thought about that before you made poor piggies live outside.

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 10:52 am
Read it for heavens sake there is 2 in there.

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 10:53 am
Please tell me they are moved indoors somewhere for the winter. At least.

DocDolittle
10-02-05, 10:57 am
Read it for heavens sake there is 2 in there.

There was 4 in that hutch and run for 4 years then 5 for a month now there is 2 in there.

So, there were once 5 in there. Unsuitable.

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 10:58 am
For 1 month!

VoodooJoint
10-02-05, 11:09 am
Josie, get over it. With every post you lower yourself even further in our regards. Just look at that horrible, dirty, unsuitable and small hutch. The wood it is made of if certainly soaked with urine and harboring bacteria and disease. There is hay molding in the upper corners, what looks like either a cobweb or matted fur on the front and that lovely green tarp, how can you think that it is in any way suitable protection from the elements?!

Why don't you try to live in a shed for a month with nothing but a green tarp to keep you warm and dry. You need to experiance how moldy hay smells and how unhealthy it is. How do you think it would feel to have cobwebs caught in your hair?

You are nothing but a glorified animal abuser!

.:Josie:.
10-02-05, 11:13 am
God I'm just going to give up being polite to you NO WONDER EVERYONE LEAVES THIS BLOODY SITE YOUR ALL NASTY PEOPLE WHO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS AND BAN PEOPLE FOR VOICING THEIR OPINIONS!!!! SCREW YOU ALL!!!!

VoodooJoint
10-02-05, 11:15 am
I'm not waiting for your demotion. You are Banned Permanantly. Along with GPPerson for a week. I warned that I was going to hold GPPerson responsible if any of her friends broke rules and while I may be many things I am not a liar.

Ly&Pigs
10-02-05, 11:18 am
You beat me to it VJ. Good call, for I was about to ban her.

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 11:20 am
Oh I found this little picture that was very apt for a response to her post:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/daftscotslass/Capslock.jpg

Oh well :D

Sabriel
10-02-05, 11:26 am
Get one what? A computer, an indoor pig or a basket? The basket I can help you with.

http://sorceressandswordsman.com/Lina_Basket.jpg
Lina in the basket

http://sorceressandswordsman.com/Kero_Basket.jpg
Kerberos in the basket

Go to the dollar store and find a sturdy plastic, untreated wooden or untreated wicker basket. Then stop over at the fabric store and buy a 1 yard of flannel (you can make many liners from this or you can use it for other projects) and 1 yard of cotton batting (the kind that comes in a sheet). If you have all this stuff about the house already then great, if not, the project will have a start up cost of $15 CAD, but you can make a lot of other stuff with that yard of flannel and yard or cotton batting.

Trace the outside lip of the basket on the flannel. Cut out two peices. Sew them inside out like a pouch. Leave one side open. Trace the shape of the pouch on the batting. Cut put batting. Flip pouch right side out, stuff with batting, sew open side (maybe get your mom to do this part if you aren't the greatest with a sewing machine) Then sew a criss scross pattern over the whole thing to keep the batting in place in the wash. If you have a really nice sewing machine you can use some fancy stitch. If you don't have a sewing machine, or you aren't handy with it, buy pre-quilted batting. Then all you have to do is make the pouch and stuff it. Easily done by hand.

And for the love of pigs, get those cavies indoors in the winter! Lina gets chilly at 60F. I can't imagine her or my furry pigs outside when it's cold out.

Edit: I guess that was a waste of my time. Maybe she'll read it anyway, or somebody else can use it. It's really a nifty thing to make if you don't want to buy a cuddle cup. In the end it's cheaper. You can make a lot with a yard of flannel and a yard of cotton batting.

Ly&Pigs
10-02-05, 11:26 am
Daft, maybe your photo will help other members realize that it's against the rules to shout like that on the forum.

weaseldropping
10-02-05, 11:32 am
Keeping guinea pigs in a shed ..... is neglectful, abusive and irresponible.

Hey, thanks, Voodoo! You just gave me some lovely ammo!

My darling husband has been whinging that I spent ONLY £20 on a large indoor cage which is so big it will barely fit in the living room, just in case one of my pigs is poorly and needs it. He even suggested that we put the sick pig in the garage (where I keep my car!!!!!!!) so it could be warm, and weren't sick animals better in the dark?:eek:

He had had a very bad day at work, and the cat had rubbed his latest abcess on his best work trousers (which was pretty gross) but don't worry, he now understands the errors in his thinking, courtesy of being brained with the colander I was holding at the time. I know that, as a mod, you cannot possible condone violence towards the mentally subnormal, but I was beyond speech at his rank stupidity!:grumpy:

i showed him your comments, and he would like to apologise to Cavy Cages and the whole world for being a moron. It frigtened me that someone with a science PhD from Oxford Uni could be so dim - what hope is there?
>(

weaseldropping
10-02-05, 11:35 am
Get one what? A computer, an indoor pig or a basket? The basket I can help you with.

Hey, aren't you doing computers as well?

Your Lina just made me smile - she is so cute! But, I'm not sure I would have realised she was a guinea pig without prior warning. Not wanting to start off the whole skinny thing again.... but you are doing a really good job with her!

Sabriel
10-02-05, 11:42 am
Thank you. She looks a whole lot better in pictures now that her rash has cleared up. I have a couple cute poses of her, but the rash just made it look sad. Luckily if I convert those pictures to sepia tone she looks better. I have a nice series of bath pics of her in sepia.

I can help people with computer problems, but buying one is her own problem. That I can't help anyone with :P

Lina likes the basket. I tend to feed her when she's sitting in it. She gives me the look and off to the fridge! Blueberries are a nice thing to feed her in the basket. They are the only thing she can eat in one bite. Her mouth is so tiny!

Edit: I would like to add you should have a mac version of that key map as well. As macs become more popular, more and more stupid irrate people will buy them. They may not realize from that picture that a mac's caps lock light is actually in the caps lock key itself.

Sawda
10-02-05, 11:44 am
Oh I found this little picture that was very apt for a response to her post:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/daftscotslass/Capslock.jpg

Oh well :D
Thats a very nice picture
Now i wonder if i can find one that says..If you breed or show.. don't go near this site because they will not even listen to one thing you say even if you were more knowledgable than them
Fine... ban me

Sabriel
10-02-05, 11:46 am
That pic solves the probem of the person who claimed she didn't know all caps meant shouting. Not that you seem to care.

Sawda
10-02-05, 11:48 am
Well. you don't need to have cap lock on to be typing in capitals... use the shift key

Sabriel
10-02-05, 11:50 am
Most irrate people are too lazy to hold the shift key the entire time they are yelling. It is also improper typing technique. Most good typers would type slower only being able to use one hand.

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 11:52 am
Thats a very nice picture
Now i wonder if i can find one that says..If you breed or show.. don't go near this site because they will not even listen to one thing you say even if you were more knowledgable than them
Fine... ban me

You are just too young to care and have a mature debate over the issues at hand. Please just go back to your own forum where no-one appears to care about borderline animal abuse.

Sawda
10-02-05, 11:52 am
Wait.. now your going to tell me you never make one mistake while typing?
EDIT: can i please have some ban out of the kitchin? i would love to talk piggie but i feel acsess to this forum is only making me hate it more

CavyKind
10-02-05, 11:58 am
All I'll say sawda is that I find it quite tragic that someone with your level of maturity owns guinea pigs...never mind breeds them.
Poor, poor, little animals.

Barbara

Sabriel
10-02-05, 11:59 am
No, I'm just saying if you are yelling and want to get your message out fast you aren't going to sit there and tie up one hand holding doen the shift key. Most people would rather have both hands free for yelling. Using the shift key for yelling is the online equivilent to yelling with your mouth full of food. It's not every effective.

Then again you appear to be having fun posting contrary things just for the sake of being contrary.

And just to let you know there is a huge warning at the top of the page when you are not logged in. That's to let people know about what kind of forum this is before you sign up and to let people know that breeders/showeres are not welcome. I know it doesn't have pretty pictures, but I am sure even teenage breeders can read. It's in bold with pretty colours to catch your attention.

Sawda
10-02-05, 11:59 am
Yes.. im immature... for joining this forum

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 12:08 pm
Yes.. im immature... for joining this forum

Can you at least admit that you joined solely for the purpose of arguing GPperson's point?

DocDolittle
10-02-05, 12:09 pm
Sawda, if what I'm hearing is right, you're a teenaged breeder. How have you been on this forum for eight months and still breed? After hearing countless stories and reasons why not to, you still breed. Why?

weaseldropping
10-02-05, 12:10 pm
Hey, Sabriel - don't let her get to you! I deal with silly girls like her all day at work, and they get a rise out of winding up grown-ups. One day she'll have teenagers of her own (well, she is a breeder!) and then she will have her just desserts! I can wait!!

P.S. You are so right about Macs!

CavyKind
10-02-05, 12:13 pm
weaseldropping is right, Sawda is just another silly little drama queen.

Barbara

daftscotslass
10-02-05, 12:16 pm
Sorry let me re-phrase that since you've been here longer than I have, my apologies...

You posted to this thread just to argue GPperson's point that you knew no-one would agree with anyway? Or are you just posting to rile people up?

weaseldropping
10-02-05, 01:11 pm
I've had an idea - in the teaching textbooks it's called "tactical ignoring of behaviour" - i.e. every time one of the "gang" starts up on this - we just ignore them and post about something else.
If they are responsible owners with a serious point to make they will hang on in there, but immature teenagers with very little else to do with themselves will get bored and trundle off.

So, here goes: my stupid ex-tomcat has got ANOTHER abcess from trying to kill next doors ex-tomcat. So, another mad rush to the vet to get him squeezed before he burst, and antibiotics and another mortgage...how come the insurance excess is always £5 more than the treatment?

Sabriel
10-02-05, 01:29 pm
Wow, that sucks Weasle. My little cat seems to think she is a guinea pig more everyday. Good thing I have that basket. Ukyou keeps trying to sit on my lap with the pigs. I can't fit a cat and a pig on my lap!

Don't worry Weasle. It takes more then some little girl to bother me. :)

weaseldropping
10-02-05, 01:37 pm
I thought it might!
I hate abcesses more than anything in the world.

Sabriel
10-02-05, 01:49 pm
I hate boar sac cleanings. Especially when the boar I just adopted looks like he hasn't been clenaed in ages. Poor Spinel. He hates me now.

Sawda
10-02-05, 01:51 pm
Sawda, if what I'm hearing is right, you're a teenaged breeder. How have you been on this forum for eight months and still breed? After hearing countless stories and reasons why not to, you still breed. Why?]
I havn't actully read much on this forum and i haveonly bred once and havn't since.
I ended up with a mother dead and two babies which i needed to whisk of to a breeder
Before you shout at me i did regret it.

Sabriel
10-02-05, 01:57 pm
Then why do you defend those who make that choice and why did you take the babies to a breeder? You can hand rear them yourself. They are one of the easiest animals to hand rear since they can eat solid food from day 1.

Sawda
10-02-05, 01:59 pm
i sent the babies to a breeder because
1. shes a good friend
2. her sow had a single baby the day before mine were born

i don't just defend GPperson as a breeder but as a rescuer, shower and friend

Sabriel
10-02-05, 03:23 pm
You can't rescue and be a breeder at the same time. Breeding cancels out the rescuing. It's like helping someone from falling off a cliff then shooting them in the foot.

I would never trust someone who intellionally takes a 20% chance of a pet dying. Would you take a gun with 1 bullet in 5 chambers, spin the chamber and pull the trigger? Probably not. Then why would you breed a sow? Same chances. To make matters worse, birth complications bring a much more painful death.

VoodooJoint
10-02-05, 03:27 pm
Sawda
Your lazy posting habits (lack of capitalization) have earned you a one week ban. You have been around long enough to know better by now.

GPPerson also has you to thank for her 1 week ban being upped to 2 weeks.

Does GPPerson have any more friends around that want to up her to 3 or 4?...try me, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

suzilovespiggie
10-02-05, 04:02 pm
I know this is the end of the thread. Josie's cage outside, in Az, our summer temps get up to 110 degrees sometimes higher. Any GP or any animal in those cages would die of the heat and very quickly. Put that tarp over them and you've definately just cooked whatever is or was inside. Every summer someone leaves a baby or animal in a locked car. The heat goes up to 135 or more in a half hour. Whatever is in the car dies. That cage is no better.

Tatalp
10-02-05, 04:52 pm
You should go to general chat and read "A home for Christmas". Maybe if you see things for you pigs point of view, you may start to think about why you have them outside in the cold.
:blush: Wow, my story is being reccomened to people who mistreat animals to show them what life would be like from the animal's point of veiw! -feels so proud-

Even though the site is down, I can tell that the cages must have been awful:weepy:

Sabriel
10-02-05, 05:35 pm
It was really a touching story. And the hutch she had a picture of looked like the one you described.

Sabriel
10-02-05, 05:35 pm
Oops, double post

Teria
10-05-05, 11:18 am
I can't believe that I missed this thread. 48 pages! I read 29 pages, then stopped, so I have no idea where the discussion is now. Anyway, what I wanted to say is:

I had two baby guinea pigs (both sows) in a store bought cage (some 1x2 ft). They were quite used to it but the dominant pig (Zirbel) kept chasing the submissive (Bonnie) through the cage and constantly pestered her when she got in heat.

Then I had them in the same cage but started giving them floor time in an area roughly 5 x 5 ft. They went nuts. Bonnie kept running in circles, and Zirbel (who's more a grumpy pig) started popcorning.

I increased the cage size by buying another store cage PLUS giving them floor time. After a while, I upgraded their entire living area to a size equalling(sp?) 4 x 5 grids. Buying grids isn't easy in Germany, I only have 9 but I add any useful grid I can lay my hands on to give my pigs more space. I can even use the grids of the store bought cage, it's easy to take them apart.

Now I have four pigs. Bonnie doesn't need to run in circles maniacally anymore cause she's got used to having enough space to run freely. All my pigs love exploring the cage, chasing each other and using all the space I give them. I'll never go back to a smaller size again. All four are absolutely miserable when I put them into the exile box while I'm cleaning the cage, and it's great watching them when I "set them free" in their cage again. They run and popcorn and investigate and eventually settle down in a huge mountain of hay to eat.

So, of course I could keep them in a smaller cage. But my pigs are living proof that size DOES matter. *G* And you can use this post as a testimonial or whatever. :)

Sabriel
10-05-05, 11:33 am
That is an impressive use of materials on hand :)

CavyKind
10-05-05, 11:40 am
i don't just defend GPperson as a breeder but as a rescuer, shower and friend

If GPperson/Queenie or whatever is a rescuer it is news to me...though as I have said, there are a few breeders in our area onboard the rescue bandwagon at the moment :yuck:

Barbara

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 12:43 pm
Your generalization of breeders is wrong. Have you ever noticed how only the bad stuff ever seems to become public? The news hardly ever has any good news at all! If you actually went to a guinea pig show and talked to some of the people you would know how much they care for their guineas. I went to a show just once to try and source some info when I was a newbie with my guineas and theyre not at all mistreated. There are runs outside on the grass, water bottles are expected to be on the side of exhibit hutches and if you dont know one, the club will lend you one. Its only the irresponisble ones who deserve all these jeers. Please consider both sides of the story.

Sabriel
10-05-05, 12:48 pm
When pet overpopluation goes down and responsible ownership is on the rise then it will be open to disscusion, but since breeeding and showing go hand a hand I don't think such "understanding" is possible right now.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 12:58 pm
Have you ever been to a responsible breeders house? The cages are huge. I'm not defending the small cages because theyre disgusting but to penalise all breeders isn't fair. Some do rescue piggies, but they won't breed them because their muts. Not all breeders have that many cavies either. Most have no more than 30

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 01:00 pm
You'll be waiting hundreds of years for everyone to look after their pets properly. The way humanity is going, we'll end up like those in South America and eat our guineas! Hmmmm, we all think that eating guineas is wrong, but people in India think eating cows in wrong. thats food for thought

C&K
10-05-05, 01:01 pm
Your generalization of breeders is wrong. Have you ever noticed how only the bad stuff ever seems to become public? The news hardly ever has any good news at all! If you actually went to a guinea pig show and talked to some of the people you would know how much they care for their guineas. I went to a show just once to try and source some info when I was a newbie with my guineas and theyre not at all mistreated. There are runs outside on the grass, water bottles are expected to be on the side of exhibit hutches and if you dont know one, the club will lend you one. Its only the irresponisble ones who deserve all these jeers. Please consider both sides of the story.

I am sorry, but as long as there are tons of homeless guinea pigs around, any breeding here is going to be scene as bad. If you don't see this side of the story, why don't you spend a day at a shelter that is right now euthanizing unwanted guinea pigs and see how long you can watch it. Also any sow has a 20% risk of dying due to pregnancy or delivery complecations no matter how "responsible" the breeder is.

All you have to do is look on the cavy placement forum on Guinea Lynx to see why the idea of breeding is so frowned upon here. I know of a lady that drove another lady what must have been a 3 hour round trip so she could adopt a pig. Other groups routinely drive upwards of 3-4 hours to rescue pigs in need, and others still work out transportation to get pigs to new homes more like a 1000 Km away. The overpopulation problem is in a crisis in most parts, and it is just plain selfish to "responsibly breed a few litters a year" just for the sake of being handed a ribbon or piece of paper that proclaims you own the prettiest pig at show.

Until there are no homeless guinea pigs, there are no responsible breeders. Period. You may agree to disagree, but this forum is not the place you will be getting many supporters.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 01:05 pm
Maybe in your country things are different but in New Zealand we hardly ever get unwanted guineas. In animal shelter, mostly there are the bigger breeds of dogs. I'm not defending what some breeders do and I wouldn't breed a lot like some of them do but if you wanted to cut out breeders, you wouldn't have some of the guineas you have now because breeders developed those breeds. It sounds like playing God but you have to think of things fairly. You are having an argument on how bad breeders are when there are no breeder representatives, and no I am not representing one! New Zealand is a very animal friendly place, much friendlier than the other countries I have visited. So perhaps we are ready to breed our pigs.

C&K
10-05-05, 01:05 pm
[
dalmatian_fan]You'll be waiting hundreds of years for everyone to look after their pets properly.

What exactly does that mean? That is exactly why this is a no breeding, rescue only forum, because we are going to be waiting hundreds of years for the pet overpopulation problem to correct itself.




The way humanity is going, we'll end up like those in South America and eat our guineas! Hmmmm, we all think that eating guineas is wrong, but people in India think eating cows in wrong. thats food for thought


Many people on this board don't eat meat.. Perhaps they already consumed and digested their "food for thought".

Sabriel
10-05-05, 01:06 pm
I don't eat any animals at all. That is really food for thought. As wise man once said "If you eat any animals you have no right to say the animals others eat are wrong. But if you don't eat animals at all, well you have all the right in the world to complain"

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 01:08 pm
There is not a 20% a sow will die during progancy/birth. If it was that high people would be much, much more cautious! I had an accidental breeding of about 14 sows (darn pet shops! Can't tell the difference between a boar and a sow!) and none of them died. My friend did the same thing with 11 guineas and lost none.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 01:10 pm
I am a vegetarian too. This really is getting out of control! We have to agree on something and leave it as it is!! Change the subject! Arrrgh!

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 01:13 pm
Alright. I think breeding just to increase the population is wrong. Breeding continuously is definetly wrong. Keeping your guineas in tiny cages is disgusting. Humans are supposedly the most intelligent beings on earth, or one of them anyway, so we should know better. But, if you make sure you know someone who will have the babies, and as long as the guinea population in your area is under control, then the occasional breeding is okay.

Sabriel
10-05-05, 01:16 pm
Most people think the guinea pig population is under control in there area but it isn't. Guinea pig overpopulation is a silent problem since you don't see as many roaming the streets as you do stray cats or dogs.

CavyKind
10-05-05, 01:21 pm
Most people think the guinea pig population is under control in there area but it isn't. Guinea pig overpopulation is a silent problem since you don't see as many roaming the streets as you do stray cats or dogs.

Well said, I am about to arrange my landline number for the rescue. Now one advert in the free ad papers and I will be innundated with people who don't want their guinea pigs. They will come out of the woodwork. It's tragic...I can only do rescue small scale now.

Barbara

daftscotslass
10-05-05, 01:24 pm
Well said, I am about to arrange my landline number for the rescue. Now one advert in the free ad papers and I will be innundated with people who don't want their guinea pigs. They will come out of the woodwork. It's tragic...I can only do rescue small scale now.

Barbara

I thought that there wasn't a problem here in Scotland with guinea pig overpopulation. Then I found my "local" (30 miles away) guinea pig rescue. She currently has over 60, handed in for various reasons - illness, unwanted pregnancies, people moving house etc. They do come out of the woodwork.

I am a firm believer that if you believe there aren't homeless piggies in your area, you just aren't looking hard enough!

C&K
10-05-05, 01:50 pm
Alright. I think breeding just to increase the population is wrong. Breeding continuously is definetly wrong.

Who the heck breeds just to "increase the population"! that is just silly to say. Unfortunatly, any breeding causes "increases in population" and overpopulation is in most areas common place. I doubt that New Zealand is as perfect as you think it is. A lot of shelters keep pigs just the required period of time and then euthanize them. Can't be bothered to find homes. Other areas have rescues that swoop in and pick them up because the shelter is ill equiped to deal with them all. This does not mean that thing are under control just because you don't see them at the shelter.



But, if you make sure you know someone who will have the babies, and as long as the guinea population in your area is under control, then the occasional breeding is okay.

And what do you consider "your area". We have rescue workers who would gladly ship off their unwanted extras that they cannot handle to areas that are at a real distance to themselves. We had a debate with someone who is a few hours outside of Toronto on this one, he claimed that there where no pigs in his area and that the population was "in control". However, Toronto is filled to the brim with unwanted guineas. His thoughts on breeding where unjustifiable and moronic.

Maybe you truely don't have any guineas in need of homes in New Zealand, but I would be very careful in making that statement. Very very careful. And as such, it is not a reason to defend breeding in the rest of the overpopulated world.

Besides, most people here would happily see many of these "breeds" die off naturally. Some of these deliberately bread creations make life very difficult for the pig. Hairless and nearly hairless and silkies are prone to health problems. And your precious Dalmations are known for high numbers of leathals if not breed properly, and even there, it can't be completely prevented.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 02:00 pm
What's a silkie? I dont know the phrase, and its not used in NZ. Is it a long haired breed. Anyway, they dont get into trouble if you look after them properly. My "area" is the northern point of the north island. In total, there are about 200,000 of use north of Auckland. We all live on farms or in little towns. There is only one city which has a population half of our total. Infact, I adopt all the guineas that I can and I ring all the animal shelters regularly to check that there are any. This year I have adopted 5! That is what I call under control for my area.
So dont have a huge screaming fit at me just because the people around you dont know how to handle a guinea pig!

C&K
10-05-05, 02:26 pm
What's a silkie? I dont know the phrase, and its not used in NZ. Is it a long haired breed. Anyway, they dont get into trouble if you look after them properly. My "area" is the northern point of the north island. In total, there are about 200,000 of use north of Auckland. We all live on farms or in little towns. There is only one city which has a population half of our total. Infact, I adopt all the guineas that I can and I ring all the animal shelters regularly to check that there are any. This year I have adopted 5! That is what I call under control for my area.
So dont have a huge screaming fit at me just because the people around you dont know how to handle a guinea pig!

I really think you need to see that "Auckland" is not the norm, and this is not ever going to be a site that advocates breeding on any scale. Especially irresponsible breeding such as you have been "experimenting with".

As for Silkie, I meant Satin, my bad. But if you don't know what it is, how do you know that all they need is a good diet? You need to to get with the program and stop just shooting your mouth off.

http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22029&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=silkie&start=0

Interesting thread detailing the problems satins experiance, even with very good care and responsible owners.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 02:40 pm
well if you had said satins in the first place you wouldnt need to abuse me over your mistake. all guineas need a good diet, duh. besides, i never actually said anything about diet. maybe you should put your glasses on or better yet, go somewhere people actually feel like being abused and vilified. I have got satins and they are quite prone to skin and fungal infestations. I will stop shooting my mouth off as soon as you deflate your ego.

C&K
10-05-05, 02:58 pm
I think it is you who is in need of a pair of glasses. This forum does not condone breeding, and conversations on breeding, by breeders even if "just for theory" are not allowed. Does not matter if a person or two other then you is indeed, interested. this is not up for debate. Now, I think that you are feeding off the negative attention, so I am going to bid you farewell.

salana
10-05-05, 03:51 pm
dalmatian_fan, I really think you should stop defending breeders and shows, since you obviously don't know what the situation in the US and UK is like. You are never going to convince us that these breeders you know nothing about are in any way responsible, or that there is no overpopulation problem near us. They aren't, and there is. You are not a responsible breeder either, so I hardly think you are exactly a good choice for defending breeders and shows.

Susan9608
10-05-05, 03:59 pm
"I had an accidental breeding of about 14 sows"

Holy cow. How did you let that happen? You can't blame the pet store for not sexing your pigs correctly; once they come into your house, they are *your* responsibility, which includes ensuring that they are sexed properly.

Did you have 14 sows give birth at once? I doubt it ... which means that you made a mistake once, and didn't take the steps to correct it, after finding out first hand that pet stores don't always sex their "merchandise" correctly.

Besides, why are you relying on pet stores? I thought you adopted - "Infact, I adopt all the guineas that I can and I ring all the animal shelters regularly to check that there are any. This year I have adopted 5!" If you have adopted so many, why are you buying from pet stores?

Don't you see that the fact that you adopted 5 in one year is a statement that breeding guinea pigs leads to homeless guinea pigs? They wouldn't have been up for adoption if there were enough homes to go around ....

C&K
10-05-05, 04:27 pm
There is not a 20% a sow will die during progancy/birth. If it was that high people would be much, much more cautious! I had an accidental breeding of about 14 sows (darn pet shops! Can't tell the difference between a boar and a sow!) and none of them died. My friend did the same thing with 11 guineas and lost none.

Somehow this post slipped by me... You really are ignorant. In the 40+ pages on this rather heated thread, not one single breeder argued this fact.

Indeed, it is a 20% chance the sow will die, and a 25% chance of complications. If you have not run into problems, you should just count yourself lucky.

C&K
10-05-05, 05:24 pm
I really don't like it when people talk out the side of their mouths... You make it sound like here that you have never had a sow die, but on the other thread you say

"The last litter was born to my favorite of Harmony's daughters. It had two healthy dals but she died giving birth to a Lethal, which didnt make it."

Also from what I counted in this experiance, which by the sounds of the other 14 are not the end of it, that you had 1 still born and 3 lethals, 2 of which did not survive.

Yup, you are right, breeding sure is uncomplicated...

smoot
10-05-05, 09:30 pm
I live in Hawaii, where there currently isn't an obvious overpopulation problem. But I see it coming. I made the mistake of getting my girls at the petshop. There were 3-4 pigs at the Humane Society, all longhaired un-neutered boys. I wanted girls and was impatient so went out and bought girls.

Over the months since then, I've noticed that Petland (Hawaii's biggest pet store chain) has gotten more and more guinea pigs. A month after I got her, my Peanut had a baby, which Petland was more than happy to take back (over my dead body). They house both sexes together, so I would guess that every female pig they sell is pregnant. They don't need breeders to supply babies - they can make their own. I have researched high and low, and there are no real breeders on Oahu, the island I live on. I think all the guinea pigs in the stores are from accidental litters and backyard breeders. And the number of pigs in the stores keeps climbing.

Can you see that breeders aren't necessary to keep the guinea pig from becoming extinct? Pet store greed and pet owner ignorance ensure that there will always be guinea pigs. And just because there isn't a problem in your area now doesn't mean you should start one.

By the way, my guinea pigs are probably mixed breed but I would NEVER call my babies "mutts" >( . That single statement you made about breeders not breeding rescues because they were "muts" (sic) pretty much told me everything I needed to know about how you think of guinea pigs. Do us all a favor and find a different forum, one that supports breeding and showing. We don't have much truck with that kind of talk here.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 09:48 pm
I dont buy from pet stores. I adopted from a shelter who said my male was fixed. Then my idiot brother decided to breed my pigs while I was on holiday. And I will thank you very much for insulting me. I think 5 guineas in one year is a low amount. If you had read the rest of the post you would know that my brother put two dals together. I would never do that but I cant control my selfish brothers wishes for dals of his own. I am not defending the breeders and shows, I am just asking that you respect the opinions and decisions of other people, as this is a basic human right which seems to have slipped you by. The situation in the US or UK could be very different from NZ and I am only saying that the state of things in NZ, or at least my area, is different from yours. I dont think you should show pigs.
And I will thank you all for making me feel threatened and miserable, for taking away my freedom of speech and another two human rights.

dalmatian_fan
10-05-05, 09:51 pm
I wont be coming on here ever again, the hostile environment is too much. I think I will chat to people who realise that there are billions of people on this earth so not everyone thinks the same. Feel free to b**ch about me all you like. Feel free to ignore, violate and vilify peoples opinions. Be like Germany during WW2 you guys are so good at it.

Slap Maxwell
10-05-05, 10:08 pm
for taking away my freedom of speech and another two human rights.

Ugh. This is the second time in two days I have had to explain that freedom of speech dosen't apply in a private forum. This is a forum managed and paid for by a cavy rescuer, she has the right to dictate discussion. And she does a damn good job of it.

Ly&Pigs
10-05-05, 10:15 pm
There is not a 20% a sow will die during progancy/birth.
There IS a 20% chance a sow will die during pregnancy and giving birth. Sows that are way too young and older sows who have never littered can and do die often. There is also pregnancy related conditions that can and often do kill sows. One is Toxemia.


And I will thank you all for making me feel threatened and miserable, for taking away my freedom of speech and another two human rights.
This site is run and entirely paid for by a rescuer, it is a PRIVATE forum, therefore you have to obey the forum rules and often that means taking away freedom of speech, especially when discussions of how to breed or how to show are brought up. They are against the rules and it's plainly stated they are against the rules. I have no clue what other human rights you say are being taken away from you. It's very simple, you can stay on the forum and abide by the forums rules or you can go.

As far as attitude, you reap what you sow.

C&K
10-05-05, 10:24 pm
Ugh. This is the second time in two days I have had to explain that freedom of speech dosen't apply in a private forum. This is a forum managed and paid for by a cavy rescuer, she has the right to dictate discussion. And she does a damn good job of it.

I don't understand why people can't get that.

I love what you said Smoot about not being the source of the problem.

I can't believe that I was compared to Nazi Germany because I don't advocate the breeding of guinea pigs... I am sure that there where more then 5 homeless pigs in all of New Zealand, who cares about one area. I think someone needs a bottle and a time out.

salana
10-06-05, 08:32 am
I really dislike being called a Nazi. Funny thing is, the only people who ever do it are those who support breeding. This is your only warning, dalmatian_fan. Either you apologize and behave, or you're off the board for good.

dalmatian_fan
10-06-05, 12:53 pm
Please block me! I dont give a :censored:. You people are all stuck up! you are nazis! NAZIS. You can and will never accept other peoples views just like hitler loathed the jews. I thought this was a friendly environment BUT I THINK I WOULD PREFER TO JUMP INTO MY TIME MACHINE AND GO TO WW2 GERMANY AND PRETEND IM A JEW You are all :censored: and i hope u all rot in hell. freedom of speech applies to everyone, everywhere. otherwise someone couldnt be sexualy hasrased over the net, but they can. there has only been one case of over population in nz in the last twenty years when some old lady died, leaving all her guineas in her house. the SPCA found homes for them all (about 150) within two weeks. so you jerks are just taking the easy road out by killing them! YOU ALL SUCKL

Sabriel
10-06-05, 01:00 pm
Freedom of speech is not applicable everywhere. Not even in public. You can be charged for hate crimes in Canada. All you have to do is harass someone who belongs to a protected group.

This is private property. It's like a home or business. If you walked into my house and said that your butt would be on the curb in 10 seconds flat, perfectly legal.

And it's pretty sad when you can't even spell curse words right.

zakfoxmom
10-06-05, 01:03 pm
dalmation_fan,

What you need to do is go back to school and learn proper spelling and punctuation. You know, I think there is a spot open in my son's kindergarten class. I'm sure you would find it very useful.

salana
10-06-05, 01:59 pm
dalmatian_fan has been banned for obvious reasons.

Teria
10-06-05, 04:32 pm
Yay for stereotype hate clichés. You poor stupid fool, you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. But it's interesting to see that those who deprive others of their freedom, or those who abuse and mistreat animals, are always the first to scream nazi whenever they meet the slightest hint of contradiction.

Daddy Doodle
10-08-05, 03:16 pm
These two quotes from Ly&Pigs are taken from seperate threads.

Breeder block hutches: http://cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6336&page=49&pp=20



This site is run and entirely paid for by a rescuer, it is a PRIVATE forum, therefore you have to obey the forum rules and often that means taking away freedom of speech, especially when discussions of how to breed or how to show are brought up.
you have to obey forum rules and often means taking away freedom of speech


I'm out: http://www.cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?p=57181#post57181



I was very offended by your comment of "Freedom of speach does not apply in Teresa's forum" and I am sure that Teresa is as well. No one bans freedom of speech here.


Doesn't there seem to be some contradiction here?

Percy's Mom
10-08-05, 03:31 pm
Freedom of Speech probably isn't entirely the correct term to get the point across.

Yes, on face value, those two statements are contradictory, but I think the point everyone is trying to get across (and that most of us abide by anyway) is that it's not proper or allowed to curse at people, say hateful things, expect answers and/or praise for questions that are clearly against the basic tennets of this forum, and expect to get away with it. So, you can have an opinion, voice your opinion, think whatever you want, but do it in the right way and the right place. Is someone who comes on here preaching that they think everyone should mix the gender of their cavies in one cage, breed the heck out of them, and sell the babies to pet stores and snake owners going to get applause or even a polite response? No, of course not. But is there a place for a person with those beliefs to go and find someone with similar thoughts to discuss it with? Absolutely. I think the whole "Freedom of Speech" issue really boils down to common sense. If someone bothers to read what this forum is about, reads the rules about posting, and still decides to post some of the things that we have ALL seen posted, I don't understand why they are upset about getting suspended or even banned. Like it or not, this is private property, and there are rules and regulations. We're allowed to let off steam in the Kitchen, but that still doesn't mean people can be vile in their postings.

OK. I'm off my :soapbox: now.

Ly&Pigs
10-08-05, 03:56 pm
Well, the latter one was written several months ago and at that time, I believed that was correct, but I later learned from T (Cavy Spirit, owner of the forum) that since it's a private forum, that she gets to dictate the rules and gets to say who gets to say what on her private forum and if someone starts talking about how to show or breed they can get banned if they refuse to stop. There are also other things you can't discuss on this forum such as religion.

It's not proper or tolerable to curse people out, to violate the posting etiquette and get downright rude, nasty, mean and cruel in posting.

The Magic Taco
10-08-05, 04:15 pm
Whoa... dalmatian_fan has a couple of issues...
But really, calling someone a nazi is really extreme. I mean, he could have called us capitalists or communists, but nope. He chose nazi.
Wow, you poor moderators. How many people do you ban every week? lol poor mods!

Sabriel
10-08-05, 04:19 pm
I find it funny that people think they have the right to trample over people's cyber property. I'm sure most of the foul people who come on here and cry freedom of speech would never say such things to the host/hostess of a house they are a guest of, but have no problem saying it here. To me, a person's domain is their castle, I play by their rules. If I don't like it I either find a place I do like, or I go back to my domain. Just like in real life.

If people don't like the rules here then they should pay for their own domain (good luck finding a good name these days) and set up a phpbb on their site. All it takes is a bit of effort. Then they can do whatever they like. Good luck getting members though :p

The Magic Taco
10-08-05, 04:21 pm
Can someone define freedom of speech for me? I might be getting the wrong idea.

Slap Maxwell
10-08-05, 05:05 pm
From Wikipedia:


Freedom of speech is often regarded as an integral concept in modern liberal democracies, where it is understood to outlaw censorship. Free speech is nowadays also protected by international human rights law, notably under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, although implementation remains lacking in many countries.

The right to freedom of expression is not considered unlimited; governments may still prohibit certain damaging types of expressions. Under international law, restrictions on free speech are required to comport with a strict three part test: they must be provided by law; pursue an aim recognized as legitimate; and they must be necessary (i.e., proportionate) for the accomplishment of that aim. Amongst the aims considered legitimate are protection of the rights and reputations of others (prevention of defamation), and the protection of national security and public order, health and morals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Percy's Mom
10-08-05, 05:15 pm
Wow, you poor moderators. How many people do you ban every week? lol poor mods!

It seems like very few people actually get banned. They seem to just travel in packs.

Daddy Doodle
10-08-05, 07:54 pm
Ok, thanks for clearing that up Ly. I've seen this issue brought up a few times, and I just wanted to know for sure where all the mods stood on it.

tankintheair315
10-11-05, 09:05 pm
Please block me! I dont give a :censored:. You people are all stuck up! you are nazis! NAZIS. You can and will never accept other peoples views just like hitler loathed the jews. I thought this was a friendly environment BUT I THINK I WOULD PREFER TO JUMP INTO MY TIME MACHINE AND GO TO WW2 GERMANY AND PRETEND IM A JEW
This outrages me because even though this person is banned, I hate be called somthing so horid as a natzi:mad:. This person obviously know nothing about WWII and doest care. This just outraged me so much that I had to say somthing.

The Magic Taco
10-12-05, 02:53 am
You said it perfectly, tankintheair.

Percy's Mom
10-12-05, 07:10 am
Oh I found this little picture that was very apt for a response to her post:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/daftscotslass/Capslock.jpg

Oh well :D

I haven't been following this thread for quite a while, but I was flipping back through it today and saw this picture. It should be a sticky somewhere or added to the posting rules or something. Bravo DSL!

Cavie Cove
11-10-05, 09:35 am
Don't worry I'm not going to start anything!
Just wanted to say I heard that the person whos picture started this all off has reduced her numbers to around 15. Don't know if you wanted to know that.

NewGPMom
11-10-05, 08:16 pm
Unless she has changed the conditions in which she keeps them it doesn't
matter if she has 15, 50 or 1. I don't even want to know how they were reduced. Unless I am confusing this with another thread, she breeds as well so the numbers will be back up soon.

In the words of Shania Twain--That don't impress me much!!


Don't worry I'm not going to start anything!
Just wanted to say I heard that the person whos picture started this all off has reduced her numbers to around 15. Don't know if you wanted to know that.