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guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:00 pm
Well they are 2ft wide, 3ft deep 2ft high!
As I have said before I know 'nasty' breeders with 4 in that size cage.
Life must not be fair for thoughs guineas, well I can do anything for them and you cant do anything for mine but advise me.
EDIT: Someone (sorry cant remember who) has requested to see my other website: http://guineapigqueen.bravehost.com/

Ly&Pigs
09-27-05, 05:01 pm
It really isnt nice to keep calling our cages silly names, we do at least give you the respect of calling your cages by their proper name.
Ok, then I will stop calling the small 2 sq. ft. hutches toilets but that will not make me stop thinking of them as toilets. Not everyone has called c&c cages good names. To mock them with a username of crapncardboard is not nice. Don't you agree?

Slap Maxwell
09-27-05, 05:03 pm
Well they are 2ft wide, 3ft deep 2ft high!
As I have said before I know 'nasty' breeders with 4 in that size cage.
Life must not be fair for thoughs guineas, well I can do anything for them and you cant do anything for mine but advise me.

Wait, you are saying those tiny little boxes are 2' x 3'? I don't think so! There is no way unless your photo is somehow WAY out of proportion and you are growing 7lb pigs.

DocDolittle
09-27-05, 05:03 pm
May I just say that almost every one of the posts made by many(not all) of the so-called breeders are unbelievably hypocritical! Who was it that first complained about the 'mud-slinging' and insulting? I believe it was the new members, the breeders. Not two posts later I will see the majority of them slinging the mud right back. You call us childish? Take a look in the mirror!

C&C cages are completely unnatural? That may be, but at least ours don't harbor harmful bactera and viruses and keep the pigs away from the family outside or in a dark shed! C&C cages are a wonderful idea, and I doubt you've ever actually seen a pig break it's leg in there, you're just using it to justify your sad story. And insulting Lyndsay? Wow, that really shows how desperate you are. Lyndsay takes wonderful care of her piggles, as does Slap. You have no idea how much these two do for the welfare of animals, and you should really keep your mouths shut about that, because at least they aren't contributing to overpopulation!

Which brings me to another point: Computers are dangerous to pigs? Oh please, now your arguments are just sad. My boys love it when they get to sit in their little cuddle cup while I type, and often times they crawl towards the computer because they love to explore, the computer makes warmth, and they 'talk' to it.

There. That was alot of typing. And yes, I did read all 13 pages that were produced since last night.

x0PiggyPerson0x
09-27-05, 05:05 pm
This really is getting tiresome. I fully agree with Ly and most of the people here, but I wish some people would stop flinging insults at people and instead, perhaps, calmly and maturely discuss this. I'm not saying anyone is being too harsh, but do you think maybe if we stopped worrying about how rude a lot of people are being (other than language, the mods have full control over that kind of thing) and the insults and instead give our views, perhaps we'll get somewhere.

Now, I'm not saying a lot of the things that the breeder's side is saying don't offend me, they really do and I wish they also would talk like mature adults, but it seems like a bunch of them are past that. So, perhaps if we take the first step, let them get the mud slinging out of their systems, maybe it will be easier to convince them the C&C setup is better.

From my personal experience it is. Up until last Saturday, Baby had been living in a SuperPet ferret cage, the biggest thing we could find on the market and it cost nearly 6 times the amount of money we spent making her a lovely new C&C. I don't like to see people insulting the cages themselves, because they made such a difference to her. She popcorns around gleefully, and is generally much nicer and fun to be around than she was when she moped around in her 1.5' by 2.5' cage. The larger amount of space is also very beneficial to their health, because, due to more space, they mave realy room to exercize and keep their little piggy bodies healthy and fit, not that your pigs are unhealthy. They make the pig happier due to more energy and other things related to the state of their emotional well being. It's like, say you were cramped up in a room about the size of a walk-in closet for your life with occasional breaks to stretch. Due to the fact that there was not as much room for you to move around and socialize and have your own personal bubble, things would get a little tense. Now, if you stayed there always by yourself, you may become tempermental or a little withdrawn, depressed say to speak.

Now, those are my views and you can respond however you feel is appropriate, you can yell or you can calmly say what you think.

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:05 pm
I will admit I do like the C&C cages and was really impressed but its not practical for someone who shows and breeds.

These are my other hutches 4ft long, 21/2 wide and 2ft high.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/000_0958.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/000_0957.jpg
These hutches are used to house pairs and trios, also mams and piglets/pups

DocDolittle
09-27-05, 05:07 pm
Then stop showing and breeding! I don;'t understand, why are you showing and breeding?

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:09 pm
Because I enjoy it.
It a very social hobby and the guineas I have are my life.
I love breeding to make more piglets/pups to show.
Please do not get me started anymore on this subject than I already have done.
See 'Showing Animals' I have posted on their previously under guineapigqueen.
http://cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7204

Slap Maxwell
09-27-05, 05:10 pm
Showing and breeding is a selfish act soley for the person breeding them. It has no practical use and does nothing for the sows.

x0PiggyPerson0x
09-27-05, 05:10 pm
I must say, it seems like a bunch of people who said they are breeding on here say it is because they like to do it, not neccessarily you GPPerson, even if it puts their sows and potential pups at great risks, including death.

[Edit - On a side note, there is almost a post here every other minute or two, it's insane! Not bad, but... - Stop Edit]

Ly&Pigs
09-27-05, 05:10 pm
I will admit I do like the C&C cages and was really impressed but its not practical for someone who shows and breeds.
Why do you feel they wouldn't be practical? I linked you to a photo of a very practical shelving unit C&C setup that would work well for housing pigs in any situation.

Slap Maxwell
09-27-05, 05:12 pm
I love breeding to make more piglets/pups to show.


Exaclty. They are nothing but stock and a material play toy for you. You may love them, but you obvisily can't put yourself into the cavy's place. See it from their point of view. Apparently this is impossible for you, not feeling one bit of guilt and remorce.

C&K
09-27-05, 05:17 pm
Well, pictures can be decieving... perhaps they are, but if it helps understand us, they look like they are only 12 - 18 inch's accross, and maybe 2 feet deep... Perhaps they are more, it would be nice if a new picture against a measuring tape was taken, I think a lot of people might put this whole thing to bed then.

My comments about the other breeders was in reference to your earlier remarks. I was trying to give you credit for the care you do take, it is obvious that you do care, even if some here (including myself from what the cages look like in the pictures) think the cages are "small".

Try to see it from our side, they look like 12 inch by 18 inch boxes to an untrained eye in a two dimensional photo.



Wait, you are saying those tiny little boxes are 2' x 3'? I don't think so! There is no way unless your photo is somehow WAY out of proportion and you are growing 7lb pigs.

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:23 pm
Why do I need to feel guilt and remorce? You are not god neither am I.
I choose which guinea pig mated with which guinea pig, that is kind of acting like god.
In the wild cavies run around and mate, have piglets/pups and no one complains, but in captivity its a total different matter.

I do not put any boar with any sow. I make sure they are in good health, regular weigh checks and overall health checks, I would never put an ill pig in with others.
I only breed when its necessary. I have 33 sows and only 20 have been bred by myself or someone I have got them off, I currently have 10 breeding sows. and only 2 sows with piglets. If I breed them far to much them why isnt my previous litter born January 2005. 9 months is along time, for someone who wants to make money.

Slap_Maxwell you are turning everything I say into an argument and I have never referred to my guineas as stock.

EDIT

Wait, you are saying those tiny little boxes are 2' x 3'? I don't think so! There is no way unless your photo is somehow WAY out of proportion and you are growing 7lb pigs.
How do you know how old the guineas are?

Slap Maxwell
09-27-05, 05:28 pm
Then the PEW or DEW cavy in the nearest box must be 17" long at least!

Ly&Pigs
09-27-05, 05:28 pm
Let's leave God totally out of this conversation please. And we are not turning this into a "how to" or "how I breed" conversation.

zakfoxmom
09-27-05, 05:30 pm
GPperson, I have read this thread and my mind has turned to mush because of all the bull being thrown around. You may have said at some point, but what do you do with all of the guinea pigs? Do you keep all of them until they die of illness or old age or do you sell them or what?

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:31 pm
Then the DEW cavy in the nearest box must be 17" long at least!

Connor was a White/Lilac Argente and has pink eyes. He was an adult cavy and was never 17inches long, more like 9.

Slap Maxwell
09-27-05, 05:33 pm
Well placing him against the wire, he would take up over half, if not 3/4 of the space. That seems to make the width about 15" at MOST, not 24".

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:36 pm
Well placing him against the wire, he would take up over half, if not 3/4 of the space. That seems to make the width about 15" at MOST, not 24".

Connor died this time last year.

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:38 pm
GPperson, I have read this thread and my mind has turned to mush because of all the bull being thrown around. You may have said at some point, but what do you do with all of the guinea pigs? Do you keep all of them until they die of illness or old age or do you sell them or what?

I only sell if I am over crowed, which I do my best not to do. I will sometimes sell my piglets to other breeders or other guinea pig owners, who I know well, at least I know they will not be 'stock'.
My oldest cavy is Hannibal he was born in my caviery and he will be 6 years old on the 1st January 2006.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/hannibal10.jpg
Sometimes I have to get my guineas 'put to sleep' if they are suffering from cancer, life-threating diseases etc.

Slap Maxwell
09-27-05, 05:40 pm
I am sorry for your loss, however I was aware he had passed, I didn't mean to reference him as living.

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:44 pm
I am sorry for your loss, however I was aware he had passed, I didn't mean to reference him as living.

Its ok, Its been hard for me to refer back to them. I miss them soo much, if you click on the website and R.I.P area.

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 05:51 pm
Its late in the UK and I must go to bed, If you have any questions I will be glad to answer them.
I am a grown woman and I dont do childish mubblings behind peoples backs.

We can argue the space issue all we want, but at the end of the day, whether its 2ft or 10ft, its still a cage and they are not housed in the in wild.

Agree to Disagree, as I have said before, we all have our own opinions.

C&K
09-27-05, 05:53 pm
Connor died this time last year.

I am sorry for your loss, it must have been terrible to loose so many cavies. However, the point still stands, if he was 9" long, not 17, why does it seem he takes up so much room? did the hutch grow after his passing?

Again, I am not trying to upset you, perhaps we can clarify this missunderstanding somehow. It seems to matter to you a great deal what people think. The photos look like the cages are 15-18" wide, and no where near 3 feet deep, perhaps new pictures with a measuring tape could prove your cause, otherwise we just have to agree to disagree.

guineapigqueen
09-27-05, 06:05 pm
First you say you are not trying to upset me but everything what has been written is usually a sarcastic comment. Secondly the photo is from an approx 45 degree angle to the right and Connor is at an angle to the left. You cant measure a photo with a ruler when it is at an angular perspective. This is getting ridiculous it seems that some people arent happy unless they argue.
Forum admin must love this i bet its never been so busy. Its very easy to insult people over the net and make assumptions and draw conclusions from photos that cannot be measured accurately. Take a picture of your own cages at similar angles and see how it looks. A little common sense please.

Sabriel
09-27-05, 06:21 pm
That's why we are asking you to take a new picture with a ruler.

Percy's Mom
09-27-05, 06:26 pm
They were more than using common sense. What they were asking for was a new picture of the cage with a measuring tape or meter stick up against it, so they could see an exact measurement.

C&K
09-27-05, 06:32 pm
Honestly Emma, I don't mean to be sarcastic, sorry if I come across that way. In some ways I think I have really warmed up to you in most respects, as it has become very apparent in how much you care for your piggies, even if your cages appear small in the photos.

About the photos, it would be silly to measure the photos, I meant as Sabriel said, since you still have access to the cages, you could go measure them up with a ruler, and photograph them showing the measurements.

By any means, you don't have to do this, but if you want people to believe they are 2 x 3 feet, it would help your case. If you don't care what we think, then don't bother.

Amanda


First you say you are not trying to upset me but everything what has been written is usually a sarcastic comment. Secondly the photo is from an approx 45 degree angle to the right and Connor is at an angle to the left. You cant measure a photo with a ruler when it is at an angular perspective. This is getting ridiculous it seems that some people arent happy unless they argue.
Take a picture of your own cages at similar angles and see how it looks. A little common sense please.

cavy_lover
09-27-05, 06:56 pm
Gp person....what about hutches pigloos e.t.c in you cages? I dont see any toys to entertain them only a bowl of food and another pig. Do they only get toys during floor time? tunnels e.t.c?

Concering your comment here:
I am a grown woman and I dont do childish mubblings behind peoples backs.

We can argue the space issue all we want, but at the end of the day, whether its 2ft or 10ft, its still a cage and they are not housed in the in wild.

I dont want to start another argument in fact I have been following this thread for a while now but:
http://pub43.bravenet.com/forum/3682050311/show/493789

This shows your reply on your own website in regards to you hutches. I just find it a bit immature. I apologise if I have broken any privacy issues regarding the forum on your own website.

DocDolittle
09-27-05, 07:16 pm
This shows your reply on your own website in regards to you hutches. I just find it a bit immature. I apologise if I have broken any privacy issues regarding the forum on your own website.

Really? I find it quite funny that you don't do any childish mumblings behind our backs, and yet here you are, caught red0handed. At least the starter of this thread didn't inadvertently mean to hurt your feelings and/or bother you, she just showed your cages as an example.


Because I enjoy it.
It a very social hobby and the guineas I have are my life.
I love breeding to make more piglets/pups to show.

You like breeding because it's a social hobby? In what way? Human? Join a dance class! Piggies? Adopt. I don't really care if you want little baby pigs, go out and adopt little baby pigs! Here's an example of a baby near me: http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=4422532

Little Petey here is just a youngin', a baby who was dropped off unwanted. Would you not adopt him? If so, why? Because he isn't show standard?



I only breed when its necessary

When on this green earth is it necessary to breed a sow and risk her life? Please, answer me, and spare me any lies. It may be necessary to spay a sow, but never in my life have I heard of it being necessary to breed one.


How do you know how old the guineas are?

I think slap meant unless you have 7 pound piggers.

CavySpirit
09-27-05, 07:17 pm
Sometimes I have to get my guineas 'put to sleep' if they are suffering from cancer, life-threating diseases etc.Very interesting. You would think that a long-time, real and reputable rescue, such as Cavy Spirit, who routinely rescues many hundreds of so-called abused and sick animals over many years would have a very significantly higher percentage of animals who needed to be killed for quality of life purposes. And if not a higher percentage of animals, most certainly more animals in quantity who needed to be put down due to those cancers and life-threatening diseases, ETC. Yet, I would never dream of saying such a sentence. Ever. I can easily count on one hand the number of pigs we collectively (across my large foster homes) have had to euthanize. It is an extraordinary event. One that I would never characterize as "sometimes." You would think that such a great and wonderful breeder, who should have A HIGHER LEVEL OF STANDARD OF CARE than any rescue, would never experience such consistent poor health and disease in their herds.


We can argue the space issue all we want, but at the end of the day, whether its 2ft or 10ft, its still a cage and they are not housed in the in wild.

Agree to Disagree, as I have said before, we all have our own opinions.I will personally no longer accept cage size parameters as opinions. This site has been around long enough (over six years). It has seen many multiple generations of guinea pigs. Hundreds upon hundreds turning into thousands upon thousands of peoples' experience with their cavies gives heavy credence to the minimum cage sizes published on this site. Not only are there going on 500 experiential testimonials on this site, add to that the hundreds upon hundreds of forum postings in dozens of sites and lists around the net from people around the world. You simply cannot deny the GUINEA PIG's experience of a properly-sized cage. The mountain of evidence has moved this little item from opinion to fact.

You and most breeders stand firm on your smaller cage and hutch sizes because it's just too inconvenient and costly for you to provide more space. Complete common sense. Your rationalizations and anger at what should be done are quite understandable when you consider your perspective. Therein lies the problem, doesn't it? Motive. Companion Cavies vs. Cavy Stock. Your own photos just prove the point.

---------------------
My moderators have been absolutely superb in using their most excellent judgement in moderating this thread. They make me so proud of them.
---------------------

A couple of other comments.

No child is a rescuer. Reputable rescue requires one to enter into legal, contractual and long-term agreements. Rescue requires fiscal resources, responsibility, liability and longevity. If the mother wants to come here and post about her rescue operation, great. I once had a 16-year old 'rescuer' who also bred rabbits who wanted desperately to be listed on CavyRescue.com. I spoke with the mother. She explained things to me. I explained things to her. Of course, I would not list her as the mother really viewed it as the daughter's 'thing' although she supported her. Funny, about a year after, the family moved. Child no longer doing 'rescue.' Wonder what happened to the commitments of returns, education, support, etc?

---------------------

I do not appreciate the lies about C&C cages causing broken legs.

---------------------


Forum admin must love this i bet its never been so busy. Its very easy to insult people over the net and make assumptions and draw conclusions from photos that cannot be measured accurately. Take a picture of your own cages at similar angles and see how it looks. A little common sense please.
We've had plenty of busy, hot discussions. It makes no difference to me how 'busy' we are on any given thread or day or anything. You are devolving into talking nonsense. Practically everyone here HAS taken pictures of their cages and posted them publicly--maybe you haven't gotten that far on this site. And it's a total piece of cake to see EXACTLY how big they are because, first of all, eveyone uses the dimensions provided on the site as guidelines, and secondly, the grids themselves act as a tape measure. Kindergarten math.

Draw conclusions from photos? Hello, it's quite obvious exactly how 'small' your cages are from the photo. One only needs their own eyesite. No conclusions needed. You're asking us to use a little common sense?

-----------------------

Regarding wooden hutches. Bad. Bad. Bad. Period. End of story. Even the USDA, which will only institutionalize the barest minimum of standards for health and survival states quite emphatically:
Cage construction: shall be constructed of smooth material substantially impervious to liquids and moisture. THIS MEANS NO EXPOSED WOOD CAGES. You would think that all breeders, who have entire herds and valuable 'breeding stock' at risk would understand the health implications of wooden cages. I don't really care what's socially acceptable in the UK. That doesn't make it right or good by any stretch.

salana
09-27-05, 07:29 pm
Suzi says, "Being pregnant sucked! I hate babies! They're so obnoxious! I hated nursing these demanding little furballs!"
http://www.doominous.org/pigs/family.jpg

Suzi also says, "Cuddles was such a stupid fatty! I'm so glad I had a lot of room to get away from her! Unfortunately Mommy only ever gave us one haybag at a time WHAT IS UP WITH THAT MOMMY?!?"
http://www.doominous.org/pigs/cuddlessuzifighting050316.jpg
(Notice you can see parts of four grids in the picture, making this at least a 2x4...it was actually a 2x6. But saying this cage was 7 feet long is not completely unbelievable comparing the visible portion to the size of the pigs pictured.)

__ben
09-27-05, 07:43 pm
Alright so I've read this entire thread and I have a few comments, as for Gpperson or whoever you are, you have a buisness you take pigs breed them and sell them, this isnt a very smart buisness because you're probally losing money with that many pigs but youve said you like your pigs so I dont realy mind that you breed. Now having said that I'm sure some person is going to say "How would you like it if you were bred and sold!" To be honest I probally wouldnt like it very much, but I do think you people give a little to much credit to a guinea pigs intellegence. Like most prey animals their main understanding is breed+eat+run= survive. Not saying that all pigs only understand this much, I bet even some pigs have crossed the line to "Breed to much=less food". So all of this being said, gpperson owns a buisness and to make it proffitable she needs to make smaller cages so she does. All of you seem to have trouble understanding that not all people treat there pigs like profits of god.

cavy_lover
09-27-05, 08:06 pm
Domestic Guinea pigs are not in the wild they are in captivity. Key word is captivity. Since they are domesticated animals we as owners have responsibilities. These Guinea pigs are not being bred for the survival of a species, but are being bred or someone's own ''enjoyment'' as they so blunytly put it.

Also Guinea pigs have the intelligance of a human 2 year old child according to the latest report from the scientific forum on the matter. If you would like the link to the scientfic report please dont hesitate to ask.

Ben I urge you to read cavyspirit's post on the matter of hutches. If you have read it thoughouly she has put my opinion and the opinions of others on this forum very clearly.

It has seen many multiple generations of guinea pigs. Hundreds upon hundreds turning into thousands upon thousands of peoples' experience with their cavies gives heavy credence to the minimum cage sizes published on this site. Not only are there going on 500 experiential testimonials on this site, add to that the hundreds upon hundreds of forum postings in dozens of sites and lists around the net from people around the world. You simply cannot deny the GUINEA PIG's experience of a properly-sized cage. The mountain of evidence has moved this little item from opinion to fact.

You and most breeders stand firm on your smaller cage and hutch sizes because it's just too inconvenient and costly for you to provide more space. Complete common sense. Your rationalizations and anger at what should be done are quite understandable when you consider your perspective. Therein lies the problem, doesn't it? Motive. Companion Cavies vs. Cavy Stock. Your own photos just prove the point.

__ben
09-27-05, 08:14 pm
I mentioned housing, and the fact that she was breeding was my explanaition on why I think people use those "bloks'. The article would be nice actualy. I'd lke to say that my reflexion on guinea pig intelegence was based on personal observaition.





response to cavy lovers Edit: Did'nt I just say she uses smaller cages because she is a breeder and thats her buisness?(buisness like she makes money not the other kind) is'nt that what those paragraphs say? I must be very confused.

aqh88
09-27-05, 08:20 pm
If it's not practical to house the number you have in bigger cages then breed less animals. There are 2 ways to enjoy breeding of animals and make a profit. The first is to keep many animals in small pens, with cheaper food and bedding, and breed many females every year or months. Generally these animals are of medium to low quality and do not enjoy life nearly as much as the 2nd group. The other way is to keep a very few(2-3males, 3-5females) very very high quality animals with the best of care and breed them once or twice a year depending on the species. If I am going to breed I'd much rather be the latter. These are the people that earn a quality reputation and only those completely against breeding can find anything wrong with them and the care of their animals. Your breeding operation should be limited by the space you have and the money you can spend to buy them the best. It should not be limited only by how many you can take care of or how many you want. I'm not even going to get into the argument of whether you should breed or not because I doubt it will get anywhere.

C&K
09-27-05, 08:23 pm
All of you seem to have trouble understanding that not all people treat there pigs like profits of god


I think we all clearly understand that, these people are entitled to keep there pigs in a coffee can in some parts of the world if they so choose. In other parts of the world, they are entitled to eat them, afterall, that is why they where domesticated in the first place, to be cooked up and served to the dinner plate.

However, that being said, why are the people who are not treating there pigs like "profits of god" comming here and insisting that we recognize that they infact do indeed, treat their pigs to the very highest standards in all respects, including cage sizes.

I think you are really missing the point here.:confused:

Now I will bid this forum good night. I loved your post CavySpirit, I wish we saw more of you, but I am sure you are very very busy.lol

tankintheair315
09-27-05, 08:36 pm
GP person I have a question. Do you ever hold your guinea pigs? Do you know every Gp by name? Do you even give them floor time? it seems that all you do is raise them for money and sport, not for love. A Guineapig needs love and I would rescue the Guineapigs living in your hutches. The pictures you posted as sutible living conditions were not acceptable and if I were to buy a GP from you (which of corse I would not) I would not let it touch my GP's witout quarentining it for weeks becaus im afraid it would have lice or infecious desises that would spread to my pigs. Using GP's for money is crule. Many GPs are up for addoption in evey area and there is no need to buy unhealthy GPs. I'd expect rescued GP's to be healtier than yours>(>(>(

Ly&Pigs
09-27-05, 09:31 pm
__ben, your posts are full of spelling mistakes and are very hard to read or understand. From what I could understand of your posts, you have no earthly idea of what you are even talking about.

I also asked that God be left out of this conversation. Unless you all want me to start issuing more warnings, then you need to listen to what I am telling you.

JiggityJig
09-27-05, 09:54 pm
Bleah!!!! I just wasted a valuable hour of my life reading this entire thread because I was interested in reading a response from Cavy Cove, or whatever her name was...the absolute only person speaking with ANY sense and intelligence from "the other side" in this thread.

But no, there is just page after page of inane and random BABBLE from, seemingly, children. This site is ABOUT creating quality housing for cavies, and providing them with care and attention to a certain standard! If that is not the way you personally are going to raise your pigs, stay AWAY from this site! Simple!

And to our members here, I'd like to suggest: if the poster is obviously a child, or an adult with the mentality of a child, and they post something that makes NO sense, or is blatant trolling, could we perhaps show the greater maturity, and not dignify their ridiculousness with a response? That would have made this thread 80% shorter.

Susan9608
09-27-05, 10:06 pm
And to our members here, I'd like to suggest: if the poster is obviously a child, or an adult with the mentality of a child, and they post something that makes NO sense, or is blatant trolling, could we perhaps show the greater maturity, and not dignify their ridiculousness with a response?

I think this is unfair. Just because an individual happens to chronologically be a child doesn't mean that he or she doesn't have anything worthwhile to say; it also doesn't mean that he or she is less deserving of respect or a response. In fact, children probably need intelligent, educated responses *more* so that they can learn.

I have found many of the younger members of this forum to be quite intelligent, eloquent, rational, and very open to suggestions and advice. To refuse to respond to children based on the fact that they are children would be doing the guinea pigs they care for a great disservice.

JiggityJig
09-27-05, 10:15 pm
Cavy Cove is an intelligent teenager, and I spoke to her as such.

I'm referring to the goofy stuff that was posted obviously to aggravate, such as the dumb remarks about pigs by the computer. That stuff doesn't even deserve comment.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:28 am
Lets try again shall we.....laugh....Take a look at his eyes....he is terrified...poor thing...

See I am so mad I made a mistake before:mad: :mad:
Ehh?? Guinea pigs always look like that. They don't really have any face expressions... :confused:

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:39 am
I really dont care what any of you think about my cages, I am happy with them.
The post left on my forum was of when this 'thread' first started. I was soo angry.

CavySpirit, I too can name all of 2 of my guineas what have had to be put to sleep over the last 6 years I was just stating the point.

Business? Nope, no buisness here. As you pointed out I dont make any money and showing is a hobby not like Dancing though, some hobbies you go and do for a hour and forget about, well my guineas are life time comitment(sp?). Yes sometimes I do pass piglets/pups to other breeders but its only for a small cost.

EDIT: I can also name all of my guinea pigs and handle them regularly, being show pigs they need to be a tame as possible. They are handled from being a few hours old until their life ends:weepy:

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:41 am
It really isnt nice to keep calling our cages silly names, we do at least give you the respect of calling your cages by their proper name.
Someone called our cages Cr** and Cardboard... dunno why because nothing is cr** about it and nothing is made out of cardboard.:confused:

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:47 am
For those of you who think your guinea pigs are happy with small cages this is what I've got to say...
That's all they've ever known, they're bound to 'seem' happy. I used to have small cages too.. not as small as GPperson's, but still small. Now they have much, much bigger cages.. they are going mad. They have been jumping around getting all excited. I thought they were ok before but they never jumped around this much before. Because you can't be bothered to make bigger cages for your guinea pigs, they are having unhappy and boring lives.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:58 am
With small hutches...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/90katrina90/100_5027.jpg
With big C&C cages...
Its Misty & Isabel demanding more bedding
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/90katrina90/100_5164.jpg
In which photo do they look happiest?

Susan9608
09-28-05, 01:12 am
If you truly do not care, as you claim, what other people think of your cages, then why did the criticism of your cages upset you so much?

enchantingcavy
09-28-05, 06:08 am
Hi Guys,


I don't want to make this post about me at all but I am a member of a guinea pig forum in Australia. Most of the people registered on it are breeders or exhibitors of cavies... ( thats all ill say as I said I dont want to make this post about me or breeders )

GP Person is a member of our forum and I have seen these photos and her pigs before...GP Person I really don't want to sound rotten but your cages are WAY WAY WAY to small and it's breeders that keep their animals like this that give ALL BREEDERS a very bad reputatation.....When I saw your link on our aussie forum I noticed just how many guinea pigs you seem to lose on a regular almost monthly basis....this is not good at all and should be giving you a warning sign that something you are doing is wrong because guinea pigs should all live long happy healthy lives if they are kept and fed correctly and given the correct attention etc...if you have large numbers then yes the chances of one getting sick is a little higher but rarely should one die.
The pigs in the cages look underweight aswell.

I hate looking at the photos of breeding cages on this forum because I feel as upset as all of you of the examples you show on here though these are NOT a majority I could post a tonne of stud setups hear that are just fantastic and the cages are enormous, the pigs are enormous and very happy, hear in Australia these sorts of setups you show would be a rare minority which I'm very glad to say as we have a good network of people that report guinea pig abuse and even the breeders deal with breeders they think are mistreating their animals usually through the RSPCA. They also don't ear tag hear in australia I can't believe some of the stuff that happens with poor piggies overseas especially just how many homeless piggies their are it's terrible! We only have a couple of guinea rescues in the whole of australia and rarely do they get more than a couple of pigs in:weepy: But i absolutely agree that every breeding setup youve shown on here is just shocking...tiny cages, some setups youve posted have pigs housed on their own I cant imagine how lonely they must be...and the pigs in them look small and undernourished....It upsets me those that treat their guineas this way because it gives the entire fancy a horrible horrible representation.

What's worse is those that dont keep their pigs correctly CANT EVEN SEE IT!:confused:
*~jess~*

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 06:11 am
Cavie Cove, I'm really not trying to be mean to you, as of all of "Emma's friends" that have visited here, you seem the most mature and open to discussion. But your cages, while sturdy, insulated, etc., looked very dark and depressing to me.

For just a moment, with an open mind, imagine things from our point of view. Think about the hordes of piggies you are keeping out in a shed, in dark, enclosed hutches that are like perpetual caves.



they are not dark as they have been painted with a light colour in them and we also have strip lighting running the full lenght of the shed and is left on nearly 24/7.
They get the same amount of likgh as we do.

cavy-cool-crazy
09-28-05, 06:13 am
they are not dark as they have been painted with a light colour in them

What paint did you use? Most types are toxic and cause respiratory distress and failure.

As for the discussion on cavies natural instincts and all the way they are treated by many people these days:
The cavies we keep today are domesticated. This means that they have been bred to be a certain way - not the way they are in the wild. So it is second nature to them to be fed decent food and to be loved and cuddled and treated well.
It would be wrong to do so to a wild cavy, but the ones everyone cares for today are domesticated and are very different to their wild cousins.

enchantingcavy
09-28-05, 06:33 am
GPPerson....just a suggestion/comment....as a possibility if their diet is correct the other thing that can make a cavy lose weight is back teeth malocclusion and this is caused by not enough chewing/grinding on the back teeth. Cavies need alot of hay and grass on a daily basis to elmininate the chances of this occuring...just something to consider that may or may not be a problem.....

Not all your pigs are underweight sorry I shouldnt of said they all were, just some so thats why on a second look i thought maybe some might have that....

JiggityJig
09-28-05, 07:15 am
EnchantingCavy, thank you for your well expressed input, and I didn't want to start a whole other ruckus here, but yes, I too have seen breeders setups that I did not think were at all abusive, and where the pigs were treated as PETS.

Emma, with all due respect, I agree with the other posts here that said that the sizes of the cages in your pictures did not look NEAR the dimensions you claimed. I know it's hard to judge in a picture, but we do have a pretty good "ruler" to go by--a guinea pig. We all know approx. how long they are, and in comparison, the cages just do not look that wide.

And I do believe you love your pigs and are grieved by their deaths, so I don't want to pour salt in that wound, however...I too have read, on other boards, about all the deaths you experience. That really should tell you SOMETHING, and I hope you take a long hard look into it before you lose many of your other small friends.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 07:51 am
they are not dark as they have been painted with a light colour in them and we also have strip lighting running the full lenght of the shed and is left on nearly 24/7.
They get the same amount of likgh as we do.

There is a very significant different between artificial light and natural light.

C&K
09-28-05, 07:52 am
Emma, with all due respect, I agree with the other posts here that said that the sizes of the cages in your pictures did not look NEAR the dimensions you claimed. I know it's hard to judge in a picture, but we do have a pretty good "ruler" to go by--a guinea pig. We all know approx. how long they are, and in comparison, the cages just do not look that wide.

And I do believe you love your pigs and are grieved by their deaths, so I don't want to pour salt in that wound, however...I too have read, on other boards, about all the deaths you experience. That really should tell you SOMETHING, and I hope you take a long hard look into it before you lose many of your other small frends.


My feelings exactly.

Honestly I think that you want it both ways Emma, you want to keep your piggies in cramped quarters, you don't want to invest to get rid of the wood that so easily harbours disease, and you want to have so many pigs because of your own vanity, and you want us to like it.

It just is not going to happen. We are not ever going to agree that your pigs are living in large accommodations, most of us Do Not agree they are even in 2 x 2 foot accommodations, and you will do nothing to prove that they are. We are not going to agree that your loss of pigs in the past had nothing to do with wooden hutches being impossible to clean with some outbreaks, and if it is 1 litter every 10 years, or 3 a year, 90% of the members here don't care. Your intentions are the same, to supply the world with more pigs then their is room for. And don't say you don't because you keep most of them, because most of us will agree that you don't have room for the ones you keep in the first place.

It just seems to me that if they where in C&C cages, outbreaks of killer viruses and bacteria could be so better controlled, the coroplast could just be thrown out, the cages power sprayed, and with less pigs, you could quarantine sick ones... Now there is an idea. Also with C&C cages, if you are not at a "full house", then you could increase the size of many enclosures. But, in the end I don't think you are at all interested in your animals secular comfort, so don't try to be. In my mind, unless I am shown concrete proof otherwise, (and then I'll gladly eat my hat!!) I strongly feel you Have provided enough proof that your single boars are in at MOST 18" by 2 foot enclosures and the reason why you won't prove otherwise, is simply because you can't. I think I would upgrade your conditions from "terrible" to "not ideal" if I could see that they where in 2 x 3 cages... But we all know they are not.

As for the social aspects of showing, the joys of a ribbon are really worth all this much? Because I just can't see anything positive out of hanging around with a bunch of guinea pig abusers ogling over how cute your "creations are". If I have taught my son one thing, I am confident it is this: You don't stand by and watch other people do stuff you don't agree with. If one friend is being mean to another, you don't stand back and watch it, you ditch the bully, and stick up for the friend who is being picked on. We have an amusement park called Marineland not to far away, you don't hear about all the atrocities that occur there, feel sick about it, wish for something to be done, and then pay admission and go lay witness to the abuse because the end product is "cute and entertaining". In My Humble Opinion, I find it laughable that you can stand back and go on about the terrible conditions other breeders keep their pigs in, and instead of standing up and doing something about it, you go and play nice with them in the showing piggies sandbox, and pretend that nothing is wrong with any of it. Then you pack up your pigs at the end of the day, collect your winning documents, and go home, falling asleep at night going "I am sure glad my piggies are so spoiled compared to (Insert name here)... She really should do something about those accommodations of hers... What an ignorant fool... she really did have attractive guineas though, maybe if I could add another couple litters a year I'll rival hers soon..."

:yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

So maybe I have gone from coming across as sarcastic to just plain condescending... So be it.

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 08:23 am
What paint did you use? Most types are toxic and cause respiratory distress and failure.


there are PLENTY of paints available that are safe to use for animal housing.
We use quite a few but mainly Cuprinol(sp?)

There is a very significant different between artificial light and natural light.
and if they are kept in doors what kind of light do they get? As artificial lights are used inside.
The shed also has windows all down a 12 feet side so plenty of light and also we have a back door-covered with mesh- that stays open all the time appart from when it is raining and double doors at the front wich again stay open depending on weather and wind etc.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 08:33 am
there are PLENTY of paints available that are safe to use for animal housing.
We use quite a few but mainly Cuprinol(sp?)

I thought Cuprinol wasn't meant to be used near animals? It really stinks, that stuff. It smells chemically and foul to me, goodness knows how horrific it would be to the sensitive noses of cavies.




and if they are kept in doors what kind of light do they get? As artificial lights are used inside.

My house has windows too, funnily enough! They get natural light from my big windows as long as it's light!

Sabriel
09-28-05, 08:36 am
I don't even bother with artifical lights during the day in my home. My windows are huge. So huge we can't even find decently priced blinds for them. We had to use curtains. It is very bright in here.

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 08:37 am
I thought Cuprinol wasn't meant to be used near animals? It really stinks, that stuff. It smells chemically and foul to me, goodness knows how horrific it would be to the sensitive noses of cavies.

hum the stuff we get doesn't smell at all and the vets recomened it and my next door neighbour has used it on his rabbit hutches for ages and we have used it for 4 years will no problems at all.

My house has windows too, funnily enough! They get natural light from my big windows as long as it's light!
I didn't mean anything by it I was just saying that guineas kept inside get natural AND a certian amount of natural light like mine do thats all Ii ment. Sorry if it came across wrong

C&K
09-28-05, 08:41 am
The whole lighting thing just seems to me like it is trying to make the best for a not so ideal situation. I would not call these pigs "abused" however thay are probably not as happy as they can be.

So the question really comes back down again to, do you want a few really spoiled guineas, or a whole bunch that are really not being taken care of all that **well.** However it is that **well** is defined, I am not sure. But natural light is a big part of it.

Even in this shed, it sounds some probably have good sources of natural light, others not so good, so why not just keep the spaces where you have good light, reduce the herd size, and work with that??

EDIT: (Added) Also, just because the room is lighted with natural light, does not mean the pigs are benifiting from it. Most animals need to actually feel the suns rays beating down on them to be getting maximum benifit from natural light, getting enough light just to see is not good enough. Right now in this room, there is no artifical light. However I can see everything because light is comming in through the window. Yet, it is not hitting me directly, and I am not going to be producing my vitamin "D" at all, if any.

JiggityJig
09-28-05, 08:41 am
Cavie Cove, when I referred to your hutches being like dark caves, it was because I was under the impression that they were enclosed (with wood) on all sides, with just a "window" of chicken wire or something in the front for light and ventilation.

That seems depressing to me, but maybe I looked at the picture wrong, or have the wrong hutches in mind.

One of the joys of an open cage, like a C&C, is being able to SEE your pigs, watch their cute antics, and have them see YOU, without both parties having to peer through a window. They are more a part of our "world" that way, and us a part of theirs.

From across the room I can sit on the couch and watch them, and smile at their endearing antics. To me, this seems vastly different from having to go outside into a shed, and lean over to look through a window, in order to check on them. I think you'd really enjoy it.

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 08:45 am
Cavie Cove, when I referred to your hutches being like dark caves, it was because I was under the impression that they were enclosed (with wood) on all sides, with just a "window" of chicken wire or something in the front for light and ventilation
The "wire" on the front covers the whole door and you can easily stand out side and watch and see them.We can also see them from the kitchen when we are eating and its fun watching them popcorning.
I don't really like sitting down inside I'd rather be out side in the garden even if its just to dead-head a few plants.
The hutches are very very light inside and its easyily full of light.
But I can see where you are comming from

They get PLENTY of natural light and are all spoilt justed the same as each other.

JiggityJig
09-28-05, 09:14 am
Cavie Cove, I'm REALLY not trying to pick on you, rather, I'm really trying to see things from your perspective, as you have conducted yourself here rationally and with dignity. Yes, you're young, but tell your mom even those disagreeing with you are respecting you, because of the respect you're showing. (trust me...those sorts of compliments mean a lot to moms! ;))

But looking at these pictures:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/gerbily/shed045.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/gerbily/shed046.jpg

We can't even see the pigs from a few feet away, so it's hard to imagine that you can from across the garden, and through two windows, into the kitchen! I'm not calling you a liar, but can you see how it looks to us?

If you had fewer pigs, you could make the room to keep them inside, and then since you like to be outdoors so much, you could take them outside for supervised grazing time in a run...PERFECT!

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 09:38 am
I'm really trying to see things from your perspective, as you have conducted yourself here rationally and with dignity
vi sa versa.

Yes, you're young, but tell your mom even those disagreeing with you are respecting you, because of the respect you're showing.
I do try and see both sides as best as I can and can see where you are all coming from so I see no need to disrespect you.

We can't even see the pigs from a few feet away, so it's hard to imagine that you can from across the garden, and through two windows, into the kitchen! I'm not calling you a liar, but can you see how it looks to us?

those pics were taken from the front of the shed wich is facing towards the end od the garden and the shed windows ARE facing the kitchen so we can see into the shed that way.
If we had them inside they would soon have to be moved back out again because of my brothers hayfever as the guineas always have a constant supply of hay in with them.

We have 5 runs for outside and each guinea gets time outside. But in the sumer they have less time because our garden gets full sun in the summer but we do put covers over the runs for shade but it gets very hot.

Ly&Pigs
09-28-05, 11:02 am
If we had them inside they would soon have to be moved back out again because of my brothers hayfever as the guineas always have a constant supply of hay in with them.
I suffer from allergies and my pigs are inside and have unlimited hay. There are many good allergy medications on the market that can help with allergies and hayfever. I am not the only person on the forum that has allergies and pigs.

Slap Maxwell
09-28-05, 11:06 am
I have allergies to hay. I have to take benadryl and Claritin quite often, but that dosen't keep me from having my pigs right next to my bed and storing the hay in the closet in my room. Hay dosn't bother me outside or in a barn, but this would be unacceptable for me to house cavies this way.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 11:08 am
Another idea is to put hay in paper bags so it is more contained and less dust flies about the house.

I am horrably allergic to fresh cilantro. It makes me itchy and it makes my eyes water. But my pigs still get it. Maybe not every week (I alternate with parsely and other greens) but I still do buy it for them and cut if for them one week a month.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 11:12 am
As it has been stated before my loss of guineas where not to the conditions they live in.
I have a variety of aged guinea pigs, so guineas die of old ages some guineas get treatments for ailments and still die. Treating a guinea is very difficult, espcially in the UK. I have been lucky enough to now have found a very after losing so many of my furry little friends, he told me what the problem was and we treated it.
I have replaced some of my hutches and the others are soon to be replaced.

All I can say is lets get back to the post at hand and talk about my hutches.

C&K
09-28-05, 11:16 am
I think I can understand why mom may stick to this one in regards to where they are housed.

It is not Kristy herself that is allergic to these pigs, it is her brother. I think I would be pretty annoyed if my sister decided to get a pet when I was younger and then my mother told me I was going to have to take allergy medication because I was allergic to this said pet, when it was not even mine.

However, that being said, I really think they could have a better set up in the shed, I don't see how it is possible for all these hutches to have sunlight basking into them for any significant portion of time. Maybe when you are allowed back in the barn, you should test out just how long everyday that each of these boxes is actually lighted up with sunlight. I don't mean you can see in them, I mean the sun actually is physically beating down inside the box. I am sure it can't be for more then a couple of hours a day.

What size are the boxes again?

C&K
09-28-05, 11:25 am
You believe that they did not die from the conditions they live in, others disagree on that. Whole stables sometimes have to be rebuilt due to nasties that infest themselves in the wood, and you said yourself that many died during an outbreak of something or other, not "old age".

Anyway, as for the coffins, I am done talking about them, they are too small, you won't prove that they are not horrifically small, opposed to not ideal small, there is nothing more to say.

As for rebuilding, I am glad to hear that, perhaps you will take the size recommendations given by cavy cages, otherwise I don't see why you are even here anymore. We agree to disagree. That means you go and warehouse your piggies in a barn, and we think it is too small, and you think us a bunch of neurotic nitt witts.

:yuck:



As it has been stated before my loss of guineas where not to the conditions they live in.
I have a variety of aged guinea pigs, so guineas die of old ages some guineas get treatments for ailments and still die. Treating a guinea is very difficult, espcially in the UK. I have been lucky enough to now have found a very after losing so many of my furry little friends, he told me what the problem was and we treated it.
I have replaced some of my hutches and the others are soon to be replaced.

All I can say is lets get back to the post at hand and talk about my hutches.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 11:26 am
Page one
docdolittle calls her a ignorant fool
piglet calls her selfish
guineagal and guineagurl suggest she is more interested in winning and money than joy of gp's
rubypiggie wants to jam her in a closet
sagwa bets she doesn't have time to feed and water definately not 5 mins

Now at this stage no advice is in sight heck she isn't even aware of it. This is not helping your cause guys. It is actually hindering it, you are getting people offended, then say 'we only gave advice'. It's bullying.

I have come here to listen to what people have to say and defend my corner. As you can see from the post above, from someone who has been here a long time. I have been called arrogant and I have been judged! Yes some of you have given me advice and yes some have you have been sarcastic(sp?) in your replies. I dont not appricate these comments, why dont you all take a good look back throught the posts.
I love my guinea pigs very much and I would never do anything to harm them.



CavySpirit, I too can name all of 2 of my guineas what have had to be put to sleep over the last 6 years I was just stating the point.

EDIT: I can also name all of my guinea pigs and handle them regularly, being show pigs they need to be a tame as possible. They are handled from being a few hours old until their life ends:weepy:
I have checked my records and I am incorrect about the above remark, in 6 years of keeping guineas I have had to put 1 to sleep, this was because she had a tumor growing on her neck, I first noticed it 2 days before she was put to sleep. It was the size of a pea. I thought it could be a cyst and booked an appointment and my specialist vet. Within the matter of 2 days it had grew from the size of a pea up to a golf ball size. She was having difficulty breathing, now do you think I was humane enought to have her put to rest out of pain and suffering? I think so.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 11:27 am
you think us a bunch of neurotic nitt witts.
:yuck:

When did I say that?
Come on prove it

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 11:31 am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennawing
http://www.petplace.com (http://www.petplace.com/):


Just so you didn't miss that- lack of ... activity is the cause of gastroenteritis- lack of activity due to too-small living quarters. Your pigs died because they could not move around. Enough said.

Lack of activity is not the cause of gastroenteritis! How on earth did you manage to misinterpret that quote you used?
Ist of all I managed to locate it, in TREATMENT for ANTIBIOTIC ASSOCIATED ENTEROTOXEMIA IN GUINEA PIGS. It says that

Quote:
Antibiotic-associated enterotoxemia is a condition in which the use of antibiotics results in a disruption of the normal intestinal flora. Pathogenic (disease causing) bacteria such as Clostridial organisms, overpopulate the intestinal tract and produce bacterial toxins, or enterotoxins, that cause blood poisoning and diarrhea.


Quote:

<LI> Antibiotics are controversial. They are the reason the problem occurred in the first place, and yet they may help reduce the numbers of clostridial organisms which are producing the toxins.

Analgesics (pain medications) help alleviate abdominal discomfort. Gastroenteritis will cause gas production and intestinal bloating which can be very uncomfortable. The pain causes guinea pigs to become anorexic and lethargic. The lack of ingested food and activity causes an ileus (slowing or stasis of the gastrointestinal tract) which allows for an increased absorption of the toxins. BanamineĀ® (flunixin meglumine) is a good non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drug (NSAID) that is effective for gastrointestinal pain. Opiods (butorphanol, buprenorphine) are also used.

My interpretation is that antibiotics cause this particular illness, and that analgesics are needed to control the PAIN which causes ANOREXIA AND LETHARGY. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
In short you are accusing someone here of causing this deliberately..

C&K
09-28-05, 11:37 am
Everyone is judged. Get over it. Plain fact is, when people see how people treat their pets, the develop opinions. Anyone who appears to keep guineas in a 18" x 24" box is going to be "judged" not to well on a forum that wholeheartedly believes in spacious accomedations. As for not liking these comments, I don't think anyone here intended you too, nor has a reason to appologise. As I have said in the past, I'll eat my hat gleefully if I am wrong about my estimation on the size of your boxes. Sometimes it is good to be proven wrong.

As for loving them and never doing anything to harm them, well, there is a big difference In my humble opinion between harming them, and charishing them.

I think you had a lot of mud slung at you, and for the most part, defended yourself very well. I think most people here thought these pigs where greatly abused, and now see that this is not the case, however that does not mean that your care is the best care possible.

C&K
09-28-05, 11:40 am
When did I say that?
Come on prove it

I never said that you said that, I said that you are entitled to go off and think that... perhaps it was not clear, but at least paraphrase the whole quote.

C&K
09-28-05, 11:45 am
Are you trying to say that all the guineas that died of gastroenteritis where on antibiotics due to unrelated conditions, and that is why they passed over the rainbow bridge?

Why are so many pigs getting sick and in need of antibiotics if there is not some sort of pathogen being spread from piggy to piggy and / or being harboured in the wood of the hutches?

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 11:48 am
I have said before I will say it again, I dont care what you think and why do I need to spend my time getting proof for people who are going to throw it back in my face.
Lets face in my single boar hutches are to anyones satification on here. WOW is this that 'new' news.
I currently do not have the room to expand my hutches because I live with my fiances parents and they dont have anymore room to make another shed. I will be buying house in the new year and obviously the guineas and all the other animals will be moving with us. We are currently looking for a house with a attached garage or large garden for outbuilding to be built for my cavies. I will then house my boars in larger cages but it doesnt mean they they will be C&C cages. I have talked to my uncle(wood worker for a living) and he will construct me some large cages and cages with divides, yet I bet this still wont please you because they will be made of wood.
Well yes some part of that is right but only the shell, I am going well hopefully get some coroplast or similar stuff and use them as pans, so they can easily be removed and cleaned.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 11:51 am
That is great that your going to make them bigger.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 11:57 am
Treating a guinea is very difficult, espcially in the UK.

It IS difficult, especially serious, life-threatening problems. Being in the UK has nothing to do with it. I live in a small town with a small vet practice owned by a large vet hospital in the nearest city. I would entrust my guinea pig's life to their expertise (and I certainly have done). If you can't find a cavy savvy vet, you aren't looking hard enough!

C&K
09-28-05, 11:57 am
[QUOTE=GPperson]I have said before I will say it again, I dont care what you think and why do I need to spend my time getting proof for people who are going to throw it back in my face.

Honestly, I think that most members here would feel that while 2 x 3 is not the most ideal, 18" x 24 is boarderline abusive. And you seem to care so much, otherwise we would not be sitting in the hundreds of posts debating this.

C&C cages are promoted here because they require little skill to assemble and are cost effective, not because they are the only acceptable cage material.

After loosing all these pigs, I don't understand the desire to stick with wood, other then you feel it is again, the most economical solution. I would think that if this outbreak was due to the wood construction or not, it would have opened your eyes to what could happen in the future, hopefully a "liner" will work out, bottom line is, no one here wants to see more piggy's die.

kagome
09-28-05, 11:58 am
I am a very good friend of GPperson and I find that her block hutches are not too small I have seen them. her piggies are all healthy.

C&K
09-28-05, 12:03 pm
I am a very good friend of GPperson and I find that her block hutches are not too small I have seen them. her piggies are all healthy.

Well, that settles it, I am very glad to hear that Kagome, really reasuring. To bad you did not show up 20 pages ago, this whole topic never would have gotten so out of control.:melodrama

Good that its over.;)

The cages are fine. Woohoo, and with that, I shall go live my life. Good afternoon everyone lol

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:04 pm
Kagome, you really think your short post is going to just make this whole 'argument' come to a close and we are going to believe they are good size cages? What was the point in your post..honestly.. put a bit more effort in if you want to persuade us to believe your friend..

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:04 pm
You will never convince me that wood is suitable. Never. If CFIA won't approve it for human food processing plants then I won't trust it for situations that warrant the need to cleanliness. Wood makes great funiture and a great house building material. Heck I don't even care that your shed is made of wood, but I'll naver make a cage out of wood just like I would never make a counter top out of wood. I'll use wooden hidey houses and wooden spoons. I can throw them away or disinfect them using heat in the oven, but I will never make a structure for food or animals out of wood.

You can ingore me all you want, but facts are facts and wood is not a good thing to make a cage out of. End of story.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:05 pm
Are you trying to say that all the guineas that died of gastroenteritis where on antibiotics due to unrelated conditions, and that is why they passed over the rainbow bridge?

Why are so many pigs getting sick and in need of antibiotics if there is not some sort of pathogen being spread from piggy to piggy and / or being harboured in the wood of the hutches?

Do you not read previous posts to get the whole story?
Yes some of my guinea pigs died of Gastroenterities. The specialist vet I found said that it is passed through faeces. I had only lost around 6 at the time I found him(the vet).
I went to a previous vet and they said to put the whole lost to sleep and start again, how inhumane is that??? I wasnt going to give up on the guineas at the drop of a hat. No-one who loves their pigs would ever do that. Giving up and starting again is the easy way out.
I went to see this other vet who is fantasic and sadly but lucky I had lost 2 the same day I was going to see him. I was really sad but they managed to save who didnt die after then. He confirmed it with an autopsey(sp?) on both bodies.
I was given anti-biotics for the whole family, apart from mams to be and mams with piglets/pups. He also gave me some Virkon S which they use to disinfect their whole practise and I was the only person allowed in and out of that shed for 5 months, I changed my shoes when I came into the house, washed my hands with speciallist handwash and even changed my clothes if they had been near the pigs.
I have around 4 in my bedroom and I was lucky because they didnt suffer the effects.
I have been back with a selection on pigs to see my vet and he is very happy about their progress, alot of them lost weight, and are not slowly getting back to their normal body weight.
EDIT: I am slowly introducing new guineas, small steps at a time

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:06 pm
I currently do not have the room to expand my hutches because I live with my fiances parents and they dont have anymore room to make another shed. I will be buying house in the new year and obviously the guineas and all the other animals will be moving with us. We are currently looking for a house with a attached garage or large garden for outbuilding to be built for my cavies. I will then house my boars in larger cages but it doesnt mean they they will be C&C cages. I have talked to my uncle(wood worker for a living) and he will construct me some large cages and cages with divides, yet I bet this still wont please you because they will be made of wood.
Well yes some part of that is right but only the shell, I am going well hopefully get some coroplast or similar stuff and use them as pans, so they can easily be removed and cleaned.

URM do you people not read? or do you like bitching at everything said?

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:08 pm
Pans cover the bottom. I would cover the whole inside. Cavies can cough on and rub against the walls too.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:09 pm
They obviously were posting at the same time you were.

kagome
09-28-05, 12:09 pm
My point is to let people know the the size of the hutch does not matter only the care and health is what matters that is my opinion.
Kagome, you really think your short post is going to just make this whole 'argument' come to a close and we are going to believe they are good size cages? What was the point in your post..honestly.. put a bit more effort in if you want to persuade us to believe your friend..

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:09 pm
Pans cover the bottom. I would cover the whole inside. Cavies can cough on and rub against the walls too.
Thank you for your advice.
well isnt that nice someone with some actual advice instead of bitching.

EDIT: how could I make them removable? if the inside is covered?

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:10 pm
So you can keep your cavy in a coffee tin and be just fine? Cool, I'll toss my 3X6, get a couch and throw my cavies in coffee tins, not.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:11 pm
I've not seen anyone 'bitching' in this thread except for your 'friends'.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:11 pm
I'm an ex-QA. All I know how to do is fuss over things. It's second nature.

Edit: Construct a box. A 6 sided box. Cut out a space for the window.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:14 pm
Erm so what is going on now? Use of sarcasm.

Sabriel, What is a QA?

CavySpirit
09-28-05, 12:14 pm
All I can say is lets get back to the post at hand and talk about my hutches.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/000_0962.jpg

Okay.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:15 pm
This place needs brightning up:)
Look at thislol

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:15 pm
Aww, you have found some more pictures of my pigs, how happy do I feel.
It looks link the admin wants us to argue again.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 12:16 pm
Here's my 11 inch piggy enjoying her favourite parsley in an 18" by 24" "enclosure" for illustrative purposes. I don't even put her in something that small when I'm cleaning her cage:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/daftscotslass/DSCN1411.jpg

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 12:21 pm
That picture made me realise they are even smaller than I thought!:eek:

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:22 pm
:ashamed:
That picture made me realise they are even smaller than I thought!:eek:

clicking on it makes it larger though

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:24 pm
QA = Quality Assurance. I worked in a meat processing plant. I was the strictest of the entire QA staff. I would still be there if I hadn't messed up a tendon in my back. I can no longer work in the cold. I am a housewife at the moment. I will start to look for part time work soon. Any one here who lives in Toronto feel like hiring me?

The sarcasim was in response to your friend. She thinks cage size doesn't matter. If that is true I can ditch my 3 X 6 and buy a couch. I don't have room for a couch right now. My huge cage is in the space one would have been in. My cavies matter more to me then something petty like a place to sit and watch TV. I just put my TV in the bedroom and watch TV on the bed. Heck I can fit more cavies on a bed then on a couch!

Edit: I find it sad that you number your cage blocks. You could have at least put names on the pieces of paper.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:26 pm
Its seems that the Admin doesnt want us to be civialised and nice, because I am a breeder, oh evil word.
I am interested in finding out ways to make new cages for my cavies when we move and then the boars hutches get brought back up again.
Maybe you dont want to help me after all....:confused:

zakfoxmom
09-28-05, 12:27 pm
My point is to let people know the the size of the hutch does not matter only the care and health is what matters that is my opinion.

Part of good care and health is having an adequately sized enclosure in which the guinea pigs are able to move around and not bump into the sides when turning around.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:28 pm
We can only help if you want help. The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem.

Repeat after me GPperson "My name is GPperson and I keep my pigs in cages that are too small and unsanitary"

Everybody else: "Hi GPperson"

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:29 pm
laugh out loud, seen as no chat speak.
I do not need to bring myself down to that level thats alot.

EDIT: My name is Emma or evil breeder person for thoughs who do not know me, I am keep my guineas in small cages but I see no problems in that because I know they have only been in their for a few months and will be getting nice big hutches as soon as we move and can afford too.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:31 pm
Then you still have a problem. Your biggest problem is that you won't admit that maybe you are wrong. Why don't you make 1 C&C and see if your pigs like it better? Can't hurt. You can always take it apart and use it for storage.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:35 pm
See its seems like you dont want to help me, only make me look like a fool. I know alot of people who think differently to the sizes on C&C.

You give me the money and I will make one. Life and money arent being very nice to me and I cant breaking into the piggy pot, thats for emergencies.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:36 pm
But they will still be wooden. Wood is bad. Go ask CFIA (Canadian Food Inspection Agency) for thier studies. Heck if I didn't have to go to physio I would look them up myself. Here: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/ Look it up yourself.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 12:37 pm
A 2X3 would cost you like $30 CAD. If you don't have that on hand then you have big problems.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:46 pm
I have looked for the corplast in the UK, does anyone know where I can get some?

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 12:54 pm
Your local signmaker, do a Google UK search for "buy correx online" and now selling smaller boards on ebay.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 12:55 pm
http://www.signwholesale.co.uk/index.php?cPath=25_29
Thanks alot, the above link it the first one I came to.

C&K
09-28-05, 01:00 pm
Emma, I think you are a Drama Queen, not Guinea Pig Queen.

When you saw the picture of your hutches up, or link to it, you could have emailed an administrator to remove it. When we said they where to small, you could have said what size they where, and moved on.

Indeed, I never saw the original picture. I am sure 1/2 of us on this thread never did. Indeed, I only saw it because of pictures you provided. You do nothing but defend their size, yet at the same time say you can't do better right now, but will in the future... So which is it, are you cages fine, or are they to small and will be improved very shortly? You can't have it both ways.

$30 cdn is like what? not even 15 pounds?

I think that Sabriel is helping you. She is giving you some really good advice, that you seem to be taking very seriously, and that is a good thing. A lot of people on here would not do anything to help you in any regard, but she cares about your pigs, even if they are those that belong to an "evil breeder person" and will only increase the worlds guinea population.



laugh out loud, seen as no chat speak.
I do not need to bring myself down to that level thats alot.

EDIT: My name is Emma or evil breeder person for thoughs who do not know me, I am keep my guineas in small cages but I see no problems in that because I know they have only been in their for a few months and will be getting nice big hutches as soon as we move and can afford too.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 01:01 pm
My C&C cage, excluding accessories, cost me Ā£30 to make.

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 01:10 pm
"All I can say is lets get back to the post at hand and talk about my hutches."

GP person, I think you are just mentally "getting off" on this whole thread.I think your thinking, "wow-look, its all about me now!" Your statement you made, says it all! We all here know what is proper and right for our g-pigs. If we do not, we ask questions, look-up info, and learn from it.

Your not interested in learning, or changing, or even in your g-pigs. YOu are just interested in seeing how much trouble you can rile up.

*wishing your g-pigs escape from your irrisponsable pet ownership doings*

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:12 pm
Emma, I think you are a Drama Queen, not Guinea Pig Queen.

When you saw the picture of your hutches up, or link to it, you could have emailed an administrator to remove it. When we said they where to small, you could have said what size they where, and moved on.

Indeed, I never saw the original picture. I am sure 1/2 of us on this thread never did. Indeed, I only saw it because of pictures you provided. You do nothing but defend their size, yet at the same time say you can't do better right now, but will in the future... So which is it, are you cages fine, or are they to small and will be improved very shortly? You can't have it both ways.

$30 cdn is like what? not even 15 pounds?

I think that Sabriel is helping you. She is giving you some really good advice, that you seem to be taking very seriously, and that is a good thing. A lot of people on here would not do anything to help you in any regard, but she cares about your pigs, even if they are those that belong to an "evil breeder person" and will only increase the worlds guinea population.

Wow, someone is creative, Drama Queen.
I have told you the size and you still moan on about it.
I will make the cages larger when I get bigger facilites but I am making the most out of what is given. My cages are fine and they will be even better in the future.
I think you(Cavies and kids) are just here to argue with me, well thats fine.

Even if I did speak to the admins, they arent interested, just trying to get arguments going.

Click on this link and you will need to scrowl down to the bottom,
http://guineapigqueen.bravehost.com/home.html
and why would I lie to you?

piggiepigs
09-28-05, 01:14 pm
Here's my 11 inch piggy enjoying her favourite parsley in an 18" by 24" "enclosure" for illustrative purposes. I don't even put her in something that small when I'm cleaning her cage:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/daftscotslass/DSCN1411.jpg Shes got a good selection of dvds there!!!! hehe x

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:14 pm
"All I can say is lets get back to the post at hand and talk about my hutches."

GP person, I think you are just mentally "getting off" on this whole thread.I think your thinking, "wow-look, its all about me now!" Your statement you made, says it all! We all here know what is proper and right for our g-pigs. If we do not, we ask questions, look-up info, and learn from it.

Your not interested in learning, or changing, or even in your g-pigs. YOu are just interested in seeing how much trouble you can rile up.

*wishing your g-pigs escape from your irrisponsable pet ownership doings*

Aww arent you a nice person, wishing my guineas would escape. No chance of that happening unless you let them out.

Why would i even bother 'seeing how much trouble i can rile up'
I dont care about me BUT I do care about my cavies and people speaking their own minds and not even consulting the person on what size there hutches, read back and you will see what nasty comments have been made.
Actually I think only a few have read all 30ish pages because its far 2 boring, with the convo going around and around.

How is all your spitefulnees helping me? It is someone on here who started the thread about my hutches. I thought this forum was for advice and when people are intrested you give them more sacasim.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 01:18 pm
Shes got a good selection of dvds there!!!! hehe x

That's our second passion after piggies... we have over 250 :-o

In defence of GPperson... she IS asking about correx. Whether it is just to line her hutches or she is contemplating C&C I don't know, but it's a step in the right direction.

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 01:18 pm
Thats because your not learning! Or even trying to! Take care of your pigs properly, or find them homes with someone how will/can. Bottom line. Pigs dont deserve to suffer. If you cant afford your pets, you should not have them. I think, personaly, that you have been given quit a bit of information already, by almost every member on this forum. If you have not "learned" anything by now, you are not interested in learning.
Aww arent you a nice person, wishing my guineas would escape. No chance of that happening unless you let them out.

How is all your spitefulnees helping me? It is someone on here who started the thread about my hutches. I thought this forum was for advice and when people are intrested you give them more sacasim.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:22 pm
That's our second passion after piggies... we have over 250 :-o

In defence of GPperson... she IS asking about correx. Whether it is just to line her hutches or she is contemplating C&C I don't know, but it's a step in the right direction.

I know you may not appricate me saying this but THANKS!:)
I am interested and I will keep you informed of the progression.
Also where could I get the cubes from? I have looked at my local B&Q and they dont seem to stock them. I am considering making a c&c cage for my ill pigs, so they can come inside, so I can keep a close eye on them.

If I am causing trouble then why am I bothering typing all these posts? Maybe you think, I think its fun to type.

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 01:22 pm
That's just it, you already have been given this info. Allot earlier in this thread. If you want help, read threw this site, all the info is there. By sitting here, posting argumentative posts, you are demastrating a lack of care for your animals, and that you really are not interested in learning. That is why I believe that you really are having a good'ol time with this whole thing. Its not about the pigs, care of them, love for pets, I think you think its all about you, and getting attention. Read these posts, then go help your pigs! http://www.cavycages.com/
http://www.guinealynx.info/
http://www.cavyspirit.com/
Its seems that the Admin doesnt want us to be civialised and nice, because I am a breeder, oh evil word.
I am interested in finding out ways to make new cages for my cavies when we move and then the boars hutches get brought back up again.
Maybe you dont want to help me after all....:confused:

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 01:25 pm
I know you may not appricate me saying this but THANKS!:)
I am interested and I will keep you informed of the progression.
Also where could I get the cubes from? I have looked at my local B&Q and they dont seem to stock them. I am considering making a c&c cage for my ill pigs, so they can come inside, so I can keep a close eye on them.

If I am causing trouble then why am I bothering typing all these posts? Maybe you think, I think its fun to type.

See the UK section, there are plenty posts in there about UK suppliers.

Here's a word of advice. As the weather gets colder in the UK, your shed will get colder. Even if you heat it, it will still be colder than indoors. If you bring sick piggies indoors DO NOT put them straight back out when they are better. This can cause pneumonia. I learned this the hard way and haven't kept piggies outdoors/in outbuildings since.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:27 pm
Aww, well I am asking where to get the cubes from? Maybe someone here directly can tell me.
I think it is YOU(Funnygpigs) who has the problem.
I have learnt of you to be nasty and spiteful, I pity anyone who asks for your help because your idea of help is pretty bad.
Maybe some nice members can help me.

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 01:27 pm
Yeah, what a good thing. It only took her 32 pages of posts! All the info is in other threads, and on this forum. Repetadly! :crazy:

That's our second passion after piggies... we have over 250 :-o

In defence of GPperson... she IS asking about correx. Whether it is just to line her hutches or she is contemplating C&C I don't know, but it's a step in the right direction.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:29 pm
See the UK section, there are plenty posts in there about UK suppliers.

Here's a word of advice. As the weather gets colder in the UK, your shed will get colder. Even if you heat it, it will still be colder than indoors. If you bring sick piggies indoors DO NOT put them straight back out when they are better. This can cause pneumonia. I learned this the hard way and haven't kept piggies outdoors/in outbuildings since.

Thank you. I normally house my guineas outside but when sick animals do happen, I currently have a piggy with diarrhoea. She is being treated thanks to Piggy Potions by Peter Gurney.
I normally let them recover for around a week before putting them back outside.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:30 pm
Yeah, what a good thing. It only took her 32 pages of posts! All the info is in other threads, and on this forum. Repetadly! :crazy:

32 pages of nasty comments from people like you.
I would rather chat here and now than troll through the site maybe the nice people could point me in the right direction, something tells me you have nothing interesting to offer me. Others might.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 01:38 pm
Thank you. I normally house my guineas outside but when sick animals do happen, I currently have a piggy with diarrhoea. She is being treated thanks to Piggy Potions by Peter Gurney.
I normally let them recover for around a week before putting them back outside.

Sorry I missed my point. I meant to say that when it is winter, it is really better to keep them in the house until the weather is better. Piggy Potions is an OK book, but it's not a substitute for the vet. He recommends things like Imodium that do nothing but disguise the symptoms. You need to find the cause of the diarrhoea, and only a vet is qualified to do this. Visit http://guinealynx.info if you want good medical advice.

DaCourt
09-28-05, 01:39 pm
OK...I have been reading all the posts...from begining to end. I have a question that has not been asked for.....GPperson...if you could take a guess (you might already have a number off the top of your head) how old would you say the average pig in your care, lives to?

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:40 pm
Sorry I missed my point. I meant to say that when it is winter, it is really better to keep them in the house until the weather is better. Piggy Potions is an OK book, but it's not a substitute for the vet. He recommends things like Imodium that do nothing but disguise the symptoms. You need to find the cause of the diarrhoea, and only a vet is qualified to do this. Visit http://guinealynx.info (http://guinealynx.info/) if you want good medical advice.

I have spoke to my vet in constulation(hes 1 hr drive from me) and I have been treating her with Diocalm. The vet said he will see her if its not better but its gone now.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:43 pm
OK...I have been reading all the posts...from begining to end. I have a question that has not been asked for.....GPperson...if you could take a guess (you might already have a number off the top of your head) how old would you say the average pig in your care, lives to?

Well knowing the facts my oldest pig is 6 years old and my youngest is 1 week 2 days old.
My guineas on an average live until 5 years old, excluding the gastroentriotis.
I have satin cavies and they will live until 4 years at the most, I dont even go their I have just recently heard about OD and I am in constulation with the UK study leader.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 01:45 pm
I have spoke to my vet in constulation(hes 1 hr drive from me) and I have been treating her with Diocalm. The vet said he will see her if its not better but its gone now.

Diocalm is not a treatment it's a means to an end. It slows down and sometimes stops bowel movement, and this could cause blockage. Your piggy could have some sort of infection or food intolerence that is upsetting her. I think you should post on guinealynx about this.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:47 pm
Diocalm is not a treatment it's a means to an end. It slows down and sometimes stops bowel movement, and this could cause blockage. Your piggy could have some sort of infection or food intolerence that is upsetting her. I think you should post on guinealynx about this.

Well you tell Milka to stop pooping then. She has just been cleaned out and their are fresh normal poops. I have slowly been introducing a new hay into their diet maybe she got a bit upset about that.

hollypigs
09-28-05, 01:48 pm
i would just like to say peter guerney never has suggested giving immodium to a guinea pig

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 01:50 pm
The comments are not meant to be nasty, they are to point out that if you truely wanted to get help, you would help yourself. I find it lazy behavior to wait around for others to answer all my questions, then, say, if I were to just read the threads and info provided by the links that were given repeatedly. I am not interested in your breeder ideas or thougts, but I have posted links to answer your questions. You are not interested in finding the info for yourself, that much is obviouse. I will not waist my time on someone that does not help themselves! I am done posting on this thread. Have a nice day!
32 pages of nasty comments from people like you.
I would rather chat here and now than troll through the site maybe the nice people could point me in the right direction, something tells me you have nothing interesting to offer me. Others might.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 01:52 pm
The comments are meant to be nasty, they are to point out that if you truely wanted to get help, you would help yourself. I find it lazy behavior to wait around for others to answer all my questions, then, say if I were to just read the threads and info provided by the links that were given repeatedly. I am not interested in your breeder ideas or thougts, but I have posted links to answer your questions. You are not interested in finding the info for yourself, that much is obviouse. I will not waist my time on someone that does not help themselves! I am done posting on this thread. Have a nice day!

I would like you to know that I have been looking around the websites you have provided me and I do use guinea lynx alot, its a very helpful site.

hollypigs
09-28-05, 01:52 pm
i am genuinely interested to know what you guinea pig know it alls do when your guinea pigs get diahorrea as i took my guinea to the vet when he had diahorrea and all they could do was to supply baytril and a probiotic? - i thoroughy believe it was diocalm that and TLC that saved my guineas life. - i asked the vet his opinion on dicalm and he said to try it as there was nothing else he could do for my guinea.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 01:54 pm
i would just like to say peter guerney never has suggested giving immodium to a guinea pig

I would like to say that imodium and diocalm are exactly the same thing - loperamide hydrochloride.

DaCourt
09-28-05, 02:01 pm
Now I know you don't advetise the fact that you are a breeder on GuineLynx...If you think people are comign down on you here, then you should try discussing it over there. This is a cake walk compared to what you would be told over there.

The reason I asked about the age of your pigs is this....If your pigs are living to be an average of 5 years old, imagine how many more years you might get with them, if they were living in a larger environment where they could have more space to run around and be happy.

hollypigs
09-28-05, 02:03 pm
i wasnt saying that diocam and immodium were different i was just putting you straight on what peter guerney said

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:04 pm
Now I know you don't advetise the fact that you are a breeder on GuineLynx...If you think people are comign down on you here, then you should try discussing it over there. This is a cake walk compared to what you would be told over there.

The reason I asked about the age of your pigs is this....If your pigs are living to be an average of 5 years old, imagine how many more years you might get with them, if they were living in a larger environment where they could have more space to run around and be happy.

As for your information I do not post on GuineaLynx because I have never needed to, so how can I advertise the facts?
You speak to my friend the vet and he will tell you that the average life of a guinea is between 4 and 7 years of age. He has them himself. Are you going to cast evilness on my vet because he has them in similar housing to myself?

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 02:04 pm
I edited my post, and put in "NOT" meant to be nasty. Just to clarify, I meant, not being nasty. I would not purpously try to be nasty, never! I just want you to realize that you can help your self more then you are. I see that you are finally getting the hang of the idea behind taking care of your pets. I am proud of you for doing that (for your pets sake). Now, too the sign shop to get your coroplast!;)
Edit: Yes, I would think your vets housing was not sutibale if it is the same as yours.
I would like you to know that I have been looking around the websites you have provided me and I do use guinea lynx alot, its a very helpful site.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:06 pm
Well its 9pm here so no shopping yet but piggy feeding time! YUM YUM
The few pigs I have in my room have been talking for the last 5 minutes.
I will have to change their feed times because of darker nights.

hollypigs
09-28-05, 02:09 pm
im sorry funnygpigs but i find you to be patronising - the lady in question took perfectly good care of her animals before you intervened and im sure the fact that you are 'proud she is getting the idea behind taking care of her pets' is just daft, and, as i said before patronising.

zakfoxmom
09-28-05, 02:10 pm
This thread has become an accident you can't not look at.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:13 pm
This thread has become an accident you can't not look at.
Advice to you and others.
Read from the begining and see what has been covered before you start getting arguementive and nasty, I am not for any second saying that you are going to be.

daftscotslass
09-28-05, 02:16 pm
im sorry funnygpigs but i find you to be patronising - the lady in question took perfectly good care of her animals before you intervened and im sure the fact that you are 'proud she is getting the idea behind taking care of her pets' is just daft, and, as i said before patronising.

You will find, as you would if you had joined the thread earlier, that the views of people on here with regards to "taking good care of animals" are very different to those of some people who have joined specifically to post to this thread.

zakfoxmom
09-28-05, 02:23 pm
Advice to you and others.
Read from the begining and see what has been covered before you start getting arguementive and nasty, I am not for any second saying that you are going to be.

I read the thread from the beginning and my comment was not being argumentative nor nasty.

hollypigs
09-28-05, 02:26 pm
if u go back to the beginning of the thread you will see that i started posting at the beginning

hollypigs
09-28-05, 02:28 pm
and also i can absolutely guarantee you hand on heart 100%that my guinea pigs are kept to the absolute highest standard possible

CavyKind
09-28-05, 02:31 pm
I have spoke to my vet in constulation(hes 1 hr drive from me) and I have been treating her with Diocalm. The vet said he will see her if its not better but its gone now.

Just being curious here, but is your vet Victor?
Barbara

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:45 pm
Nope. Why do you ask? I was recommended to visit him and did so with my ill pigs earlier in the year.

DaCourt
09-28-05, 02:46 pm
As for your information I do not post on GuineaLynx because I have never needed to, so how can I advertise the facts?
You speak to my friend the vet and he will tell you that the average life of a guinea is between 4 and 7 years of age. He has them himself. Are you going to cast evilness on my vet because he has them in similar housing to myself?

You missed my point and read what you wanted to hear.

By not posting, of course you are not advertising you are a breeder. Does't that just prove what I was saying.

Personally, from what you ahve told us about your vet, he does not seem to be the best one to get advice from. If your pigs are living to be an average of 5 years old. Great. That is 5 years living in a toilet. Who knows...maybe they would have lived onge if the conditions were better. In the rescue I work with, we just had 2 wonderful pigs pass at 8 and 9 years. What a wonderful like they had living in their piggy palace. No crmaped quarters for them. What a sad life it would have been if they had to live inyour cages.

Lyndsay
09-28-05, 02:47 pm
Click on this link and you will need to scrowl down to the bottom,
http://guineapigqueen.bravehost.com/home.html
and why would I lie to you?

Just curious as to why your site then reads that it was updated this morning? I don't understand why you are giving out the adress of Cavy Cages, if you yourself don't even use them? I'm totally lost for that one. You are like back tracking on your own words... Wont use Cavy Spirit's idea for a cage, but trying to convince others to?:confused:

hollypigs
09-28-05, 02:48 pm
so are you saying Dacourt that you pick out every poo and remove all soiled bedding as soon as it is dirtied - otherwise your guineas are living in a toilet also

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 02:49 pm
She has said she is going to give C&C cages a try.. am I wrong??:confused:

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:50 pm
You missed my point and read what you wanted to hear.

By not posting, of course you are not advertising you are a breeder. Does't that just prove what I was saying.

Personally, from what you ahve told us about your vet, he does not seem to be the best one to get advice from. If your pigs are living to be an average of 5 years old. Great. That is 5 years living in a toilet. Who knows...maybe they would have lived onge if the conditions were better. In the rescue I work with, we just had 2 wonderful pigs pass at 8 and 9 years. What a wonderful like they had living in their piggy palace. No crmaped quarters for them. What a sad life it would have been if they had to live inyour cages.

Aww well I know of a guinea who is 12 years old. He has been born at my friends house and he lives is simlar conditions to my larger cages. He is now blind and arthrict(sp?) and has been used for breeding. Maybe some of my cavies will get past the age of 6 who knows? I have only had them for 6 years and my oldest is 6 in January

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:52 pm
Just curious as to why your site then reads that it was updated this morning? I don't understand why you are giving out the adress of Cavy Cages, if you yourself don't even use them? I'm totally lost for that one. You are like back tracking on your own words... Wont use Cavy Spirit's idea for a cage, but trying to convince others to?:confused:

I am giving examples of cages/housing used by different people. Just because its on my website, do you get that assumption I use these?

Lyndsay
09-28-05, 02:52 pm
That point, and your so called idea's are taken right off another web site... :
http://www.cavymadness.com/carehabitats.php#habitattypes
Please, your preaching to the wrong crowd here.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 02:52 pm
The oldest guinea pig to ever live was 14 years and 7 months. It may still be alive now.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:54 pm
That point, and your so called idea's are taken right off another web site... :
http://www.cavymadness.com/carehabitats.php#habitattypes
Please, your preaching to the worng crowd here.

Well no-one has complained so far, I am giving people a broad specturm of cages, I will change it if is so pleases you. I could even remove C&C cages all together

Ly&Pigs
09-28-05, 02:55 pm
hollypigs-read the posting rules and post properly. Please use proper capitalization and punctuation when posting. This is warning number one. Failure to heed the rules of the forum can get you temporarily banned. http://cavycages.com/forum/announcement.php?f=27&announcementid=7

GPperson-apparently you haven't read the posting rules here either. You continue to use curse words on this forum. You received one warning from me already about that in post #115 and now are getting your 2nd warning. There will be no more warnings if you continue to curse on this forum, you will simply be banned for one week. If you had taken time to read the posting rules, you would know that an occasional LOL is allowed here.

Myspoiltpiggies-you also are getting a warning about cursing on this forum.

This thread hasn't been shut down because the admin or mods want everyone to fight. It hasn't been shut down because we feel no need to shut it down because for the 4th time, this is the KITCHEN where heated discussions are allowed.

Also how the heck did Peter Guerney get into this conversation? Is he like the breeders guinea pig master or something. I think I will spare you what I think of the man.

Lyndsay
09-28-05, 02:56 pm
No but I think that trying your own suggestion is a good idea. That's a leap in the right direction.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 02:56 pm
When did I curse?:eye-poppi I believe I quoted what someone else said and blocked it out with stars, unlike they did... but that's all:rolleyes:
I thought it was okay to quote what other people said, especially if I blocked it out with stars:confused: ok well nevermind, I won't curse, whether I have or not.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:56 pm
When did I swear? and what do you could as swearing?

DaCourt
09-28-05, 02:57 pm
so are you saying Dacourt that you pick out every poo and remove all soiled bedding as soon as it is dirtied - otherwise your guineas are living in a toilet also

There is a big difference between a toilet the size of hers, and one the size of my cage.

Besides...my cage gets cleaned 3 times a day. SO...not that many poops. And besides, everyone know the larget the cage, the easier it is to keep clean.

zakfoxmom
09-28-05, 02:58 pm
Also how the heck did Peter Guerney get into this conversation? Is he like the breeders guinea pig master or something. I think I will spare you what I think of the man.

Ly, what about someone named Glenn Livingston? I keep getting emails from him about guinea pigs. I don't know why.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 02:59 pm
No but I think that trying your own suggestion is a good idea. That's a leap in the right direction.

When I changed my website I copied alot of information over and sometimes things just slip your mind. We are all humans after all and forgetfulness is natural to us all.

DaCourt
09-28-05, 02:59 pm
Aww well I know of a guinea who is 12 years old. He has been born at my friends house and he lives is simlar conditions to my larger cages. He is now blind and arthrict(sp?) and has been used for breeding. Maybe some of my cavies will get past the age of 6 who knows? I have only had them for 6 years and my oldest is 6 in January

How sad...that pig livd to be 12 years old and had to endure such a small space.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:02 pm
Also how the heck did Peter Guerney get into this conversation? Is he like the breeders guinea pig master or something. I think I will spare you what I think of the man.

Spell his name right, you are catching others up so I will catch you up, Gurney.
Peter has written alot of helpful bookes and I brought him into this conversation with reference to Piggy Potions.
I dont see why you have a problem with him, alot of people have respect for that man.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:03 pm
How sad...that pig livd to be 12 years old and had to endure such a small space.
Small Space???
The larger hutches I keep my pairs in are 4ft, 3ft 2ft. That is well within C&C guidelines.
Jumping to conclusions.:rolleyes:

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 03:05 pm
Have you any pictures of these cages? I'm not trying to get back at you or anything I just am interested to see what they look like!

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 03:05 pm
Peter Gurney does write a lot of helpfull books that cover lots of subjects he is a well respected man to not just breeders but pet owners and vets.
Just a few I know not all of them are done by Peter
http://www.winking-cavy.co.uk/acatalog/Winking_Cavy_Store_Cavy_Care_Books__7.html

zakfoxmom
09-28-05, 03:07 pm
Spell his name right, you are catching others up so I will catch you up, Gurney.
Peter has written alot of helpful bookes and I brought him into this conversation with reference to Piggy Potions.
I dont see why you have a problem with him, alot of people have respect for that man.

I know that this is about hutches, but I really have to say that you, of all people, should not be telling Ly how to spell someone's name correctly. A lot of your posts have spelling and punctuation errors. You obviously knew who she was talking about. I'm not going to tell you to correct them because that is the moderators' job. I am just pointing it out.

Biccy
09-28-05, 03:08 pm
Ly, what about someone named Glenn Livingston? I keep getting emails from him about guinea pigs. I don't know why.

Sorry, to change subject, but its because you have subscribed to the mailing list on guineapigsecrets.com, its basically a website trying to sell guinea pig books. There should be a link in the e-mail to unsubscribe and that should be it.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:09 pm
Have you any pictures of these cages? I'm not trying to get back at you or anything I just am interested to see what they look like!

This is the only photo I have of the larger hutches. I do also have some bought cages which are the similar is size.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/000_0961.jpg

DaCourt
09-28-05, 03:09 pm
The only people I know of that respect PG are breeders.

Why is it that whenever you try to back up yourpoint with a picture, it doesn't back up your point. In my honest opinion, which I am sure others will share...NO WAY is that the size of a C&C.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:11 pm
The only people I know of that respect PG are breeders.

So now you have large cages the size of a good C&C? Can I see a picture?
I only question because if that is the case, why didn't you bring it up earlier?
I have mentioned my larger cages for pairs and younger pigs, a few times but everyone seemed to ignore them and focus on the single boar hutches.

DaCourt
09-28-05, 03:12 pm
Well, no dimension were given and that pictures shows nothing but a dark dismall (sp?) cage. Poor piggies.

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:17 pm
So you have now edited your post and you are now saying, Them hutches are not upto C&C standard?
Here we go again. I am not going to go and measure them cages also.

ilovpiggiesthei
09-28-05, 03:17 pm
Right they are well loved and looked after with loads of floor time.

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 03:18 pm
The only people I know of that respect PG are breeders.
Its not JUST breeders. Our vets respect what work he has written and reserched(sp?) so it isn't just breeders. Many of his books are available in normal pets shops libarys(sp?)and normal book shops so lots of people buy them and Piggie Potions is a very good book to have close to hand if you'r vets are not open. We have used many of the tretments he has suggested and they have worked wounders and saved guineas lives for us.But we do see the vet and they say what we were doing or used was fine and probably what they would have subscribed or suggested.

ilovpiggiesthei
09-28-05, 03:21 pm
Sometimes the vets are stupid! And suggedted to my friens to keep her pig with a bunny!!! tut tut tut to that vet lol!
But my vet is very good!

DaCourt
09-28-05, 03:21 pm
AGAIN...you missed my point. I edited my post because you provided your photo. I originally asked you to provide one.

You say...they are up to C&C requirements...I am saying...in looking at them...NO WAY. That cage is SMALL...which is the point of this entire thread.

I find it odd, that you will so adamently defend your cages, yet you will not prove us wrong. If I was in your shoes, I would have had my ruler and camera out 30 pages ago. There is only one reason you will not do it...because you know we will be proven right.

DaCourt
09-28-05, 03:23 pm
MOST vets do not know how to care for cavies. So, if a vet is getting their info from PG...I say tay away from that vet.

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 03:23 pm
My vets are also very very good to! They know there stuff. I didn't say they were getting ALL their information from PG I was just saying that they agree with the tretments he recomends and no I'll stick to my vets as we have done for the last 15 years! We have no problem with them and they are great at their job. Any way this is not the place to start a debate on what vets you use.

ilovpiggiesthei
09-28-05, 03:26 pm
PG book is there to help when i vet can not be contacted .

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:27 pm
Nope its because I am getting sick of these childish games.
'Go and measure your hutches' I keep on seeing being wrote.
What will it do if I go and measure them, nothing to me because I know how big they are.
Yes i will admit that some of my hutches are smaller that your requirements and if you read previous posts my comment was...
My cages are fine and they will be even better in the future.

zakfoxmom
09-28-05, 03:28 pm
Sorry, to change subject, but its because you have subscribed to the mailing list on guineapigsecrets.com, its basically a website trying to sell guinea pig books. There should be a link in the e-mail to unsubscribe and that should be it.

Thanks! I must have subscribed and not realized it at the time. Oops!

Cavie Cove
09-28-05, 03:28 pm
PG book is there to help when i vet can not be contacted .

Thankyou! That is what I did say before.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-28-05, 03:28 pm
My vet knows nothing about guinea pigs. Luckily I have the Cambridge Cavy Trust nearby.. 10 mins away. Peter Gurney reccomends them in his books. Without the Cavy Trust some of my guinea pigs who are alive today would not be here:tearsofjo

guineapigqueen
09-28-05, 03:30 pm
My vet knows nothing about guinea pigs. Luckily I have the Cambridge Cavy Trust nearby.. 10 mins away. Peter Gurney reccomends them in his books. Without the Cavy Trust some of my guinea pigs who are alive today would not be here:tearsofjo

Peter trained with Vedra who runs the CCT.
She has given him most of the information he knows. He is a lovely man, I met him once.

ilovpiggiesthei
09-28-05, 03:31 pm
cool lol !

Sabriel
09-28-05, 04:18 pm
I would never take the advice of a guinea pig book. If I did I would have thought Lina had fleas when she had a bacterial infection and Tomoyo just had a bit of dust in her eye when she had conjivitis. I stick to Guinea Lynx and a vet I found through GL. GL is the Holy Grail of cavy info. Why use in-accurate books when you have GL. I know you all have net access if you are here!

DocDolittle
09-28-05, 05:24 pm
I agree; guinea pig books have horrible information, mostly outdated, and Peter Gurney knows nothing. He suggests many things that are unhealthy, including using human shampoos to bathe piggles.

Gpperson- If you don't care what we think, why do you keep defending yourself? I understand that you want to stop us from dragging your name in the mud, which I admire, but you keep saying you don't care. Also, you never answered my question: when is it necessar to breed?

C&K
09-28-05, 05:28 pm
Honestly Emma, this whole thing is about drama, and is attention seeking behavior at this point. You really are the queen of drama.

You posted pics repeatedly to get everyone riled up about your cages. If the topic wanders from you, you bring it right back. If we ignore your cage sizes, as we agreed to disagree, you stand up on your chair and shout out " YOUWHOOO... Over here... remember, my cages are to small, what do you think about them cages!! You brought over a whole list of groupies to serve their various purposes, troll the thread, insult us, provide witness to your hutches and your care, even just make a ruckus and serve as a distraction and go on about nonsense.

As for us not being helpful, well, that again is your own fault, you play a very good victem, but we arn't buying. The way I see it. At any time you have been free to walk out of the kitchen and go to "cavy chat" and ask for help on whatever issues you are having. But you have not. Instead you sit here, play dumb to information available in very obvious places, ignore directions to said information, and want us to all run at your beck and call to serve you up some advice while you sit back with your feet up. Repeatedly you have even asked us to donate you a C&C cage. If you need new cages, they are perhaps the most cost effective ones available, get one yourself.

Plain fact is, this place is a community. That is what a forum is. Like most communities however, to fit in, you need to follow proper edicate, and ask nicely in the right channels. If you are a member of the community, you will be giving and receiving, everything from help, to advice and encouragement, even just a kind word. You do none of these things, and I suspect that most people no longer have the time of day for you. Right now you are behaving like a parasite, you do nothing but drain off the host. I know I am done. I am not going to respond to any other comments from you on this thread. Kristy at least seems to understand, I have seen her post a few things on Cavy Chat, all been very nicely said and to the point. No one has kicked her out or been rude to her over there, despite her being a "gasp" breeder.

Have a nice life;
We know your guineas won't.


Amanda

Funnygpigs
09-28-05, 05:35 pm
Wow, amanda! Nicely said. I agree with you 100%. I am done with this to (for real this time)! lol
Honestly Emma, this whole thing is about drama, and is attention seeking behavior at this point. You really are the queen of drama.

You posted pics repeatedly to get everyone riled up about your cages. If the topic wanders from you, you bring it right back. If we ignore your cage sizes, as we agreed to disagree, you stand up on your chair and shout out " YOUWHOOO... Over here... remember, my cages are to small, what do you think about them cages!! You brought over a whole list of groupies to serve their various purposes, troll the thread, insult us, provide witness to your hutches and your care, even just make a ruckus and serve as a distraction and go on about nonsense.

As for us not being helpful, well, that again is your own fault, you play a very good victem, but we arn't buying. The way I see it. At any time you have been free to walk out of the kitchen and go to "cavy chat" and ask for help on whatever issues you are having. But you have not. Instead you sit here, play dumb to information available in very obvious places, ignore directions to said information, and want us to all run at your beck and call to serve you up some advice while you sit back with your feet up. Repeatedly you have even asked us to donate you a C&C cage. If you need new cages, they are perhaps the most cost effective ones available, get one yourself.

Plain fact is, this place is a community. That is what a forum is. Like most communities however, to fit in, you need to follow proper edicate, and ask nicely in the right channels. If you are a member of the community, you will be giving and receiving, everything from help, to advice and encouragement, even just a kind word. You do none of these things, and I suspect that most people no longer have the time of day for you. Right now you are behaving like a parasite, you do nothing but drain off the host. I know I am done. I am not going to respond to any other comments from you on this thread. Kristy at least seems to understand, I have seen her post a few things on Cavy Chat, all been very nicely said and to the point. No one has kicked her out or been rude to her over there, despite her being a "gasp" breeder.

Have a nice life;
We know your guineas won't.


Amanda

enchantingcavy
09-28-05, 05:37 pm
HI Guys,


Gosh I can't believe how many pages of replies there are since last night:rolleyes:

GPperson the only disease that will wipe out an entire stud of piggies is called BORDATELLA and your entire stud would have died. Even if piggies are treated with antibiotics with this disease some will die from them because it sets off the disease even stronger, very few will be ok, and then others will become whats called CARRIERS of the disease which is where it basically goes to a dorment stage and these pigs can give it to other animals yet not recatch it themselves...if that makes sense.....With Bordatella the guineas if they catch it will literally stop eating, lose an incredible amount of weight literally overnight and then die within 48hours...its a horrible disease that unfortunately a friend of mine had go through with her piggies a few years back she had around 40 piggies and only a couple survived....Most were put down at the first sign of symptoms to stop them going through the pain was that about to occur within the next 48hours....
So if you were told it was bordatella then I'd believe that they died from a catchy disease, but if you wernt told it was that, then your animals were dying from other health reasons. What did your vet say they were dying from??? You keep telling everyone you were told it was " something " but wont say what it is?

Also I noticed in one reply you wrote that there's not enough room where your're staying atm....The pigs shouldn't suffer because you want a certain amount. Cut back numbers and think of the pigs....I know it's nice to have alot of guineas but the way they feel should come before the way they make you feel...I'd seriously cut back your numbers to a nice amount that'll fit in your small area for them and then one day when you aquire a large enough area for more piggies then more piggies can be added and more cages etc...

Helpful hint 1: I've had wooden hutches with corflute bases for years. Have never had any diseases or anything with my pigs and the woo d is still in immaculate condition BUT in saying that I probably would agree with these guys and prefer metal hutches or something that can be completely sprayed and cleaned every now and then as I can only ever clean the bases of the cage ( as theyre corflute luckily ) and the sides are cleaned although its a hell of a job trying to wash WOOD:crazy: . Luckily though three sides of the cages are wire so the only wood is the back. Maybe when you rebuild since you have the opportunity...something that could have a full clean everynow and then like the corflute cages or some sort of metal sided cages would be a cool idea also if you ever did have any disease going around then you could do a full clean to helpelimininate it quickly....it'd cost me over a $1000 dollars to replace the cages i have atm so unfortunately can't right now but yeah since you're starting over maybe thinking of a diff type of material would be a good idea just thinking for long term....:o

Helpful hint number 2 hehe: Umm noticed you use plastic bowls for the piggies one thing that is great are CERAMIC or TERRACOTTA bowls as the piggies can't tip these over and strew their food all over the place. They can also keep cool and lie along them in the hotter months. Anyhow yeah they're great and you can get cheaper or more expensive brands dependin on where you shop.

*~jess~*

PS: Lets just forget for a moment that people are saying they're not up to
c & c cage size recommendations. The cage sizes you have I think almost anyone anywhere in the world would agree are just beyond to small for those pigs unless you ask someone that is a child or is irresponsible themselves. Even one pig in a cage those sizes is overcrowded...The minimum required cage space for a piggy in most places you'll read nowdays is 60cm x 60cm for one pig. So double that for two piggies should be the minimum.. They need room to be able to run around, to have a separate area for food for water and then for their houses and hay areas....as you can see in cages your size all three areas are compacted into one and they have no freedom to run aruond and explore and exercise like piggies need to....

JiggityJig
09-28-05, 06:00 pm
Also I noticed in one reply you wrote that there's not enough room where your're staying atm



Yeah, and while saying she KNEW she didn't have enough room now, in another post she commented that she is still slowly adding pigs to her herd, and in fact had a new litter just a week or so ago.

She just seems so "all over the place" on the subject. This is why I fail to take her plans to build "bigger and better" very seriously. And I CERTAINLY don't feel like anyone here should have to serve her cubes and corflute up to her on a silver platter, along with detailed plans. This entire site is nothing BUT information on how to build these cages, and where to locate supplies, it just takes some clicking and reading.

I, like many many many others, built my cage, on my own, following info from this site, long before I ever even joined the forums. I couldn't find anyone around here who had ever even HEARD of cubes or coroplast, and it took me a lot of legwork, persistance, and hours of driving, to finally locate the items I needed.

But boy, was it ever worth it. For $50, and some sweat, I had a cage that would have cost me over $200 any other way. (I know, I checked into it). The best thing I EVER did for a pet was to get them out of the size cage that she is using and defending now.

smoot
09-28-05, 07:15 pm
Don't put stock in guinea pig books. I work for a major international book retailer and have read almost every guinea pig book out there. A lot of them recommend 2 square feet per guinea pig. I believe this minimum standard is taken from the US requirements for lab animals. Many of them recommend going to breeders first, then pet shops, THEN rescues to get a guinea pig. With a little research, you'll see that almost all books are written by breeders.

I can't say that Peter Gurney is wrong because I've never tested this myself, but he encourages bathing guinea pigs once every three months in an anti-parasitic shampoo, or substitute a medicated human shampoo. He goes on to say human shampoo isn't harmful to pigs because "most of it has already been tested on animals anyway!"

I understand that this is just one example of his advice, and he may very well be spot-on in other aspects of guinea pig care, but given the choice between taking his advice or taking the advice of hundreds (if not thousands) of experienced guinea pig parents, I choose the latter. He seems very sincere in his efforts to help guinea pigs but I trust GuineaLynx more because it's a collection of experiences, some of it from real rescuers who deal with lots of pigs from lots of backgrounds.

Earlier in this monster thread someone asked (sarcastically, I think) if we were piggie psychologists. In a way, the answer is a resounding "Yes!". We have, collectively, thousands upon thousands of hours of piggie observations. We've watched them in puzzlement, delight, concern, in curiosity, trying to learn more about them. We try to discern what they like, what they don't like, and what makes them WHEEK for more!

We have found that they like is more space! That's it. That's the bottom line. That's what this site is all about. It should be called MoreSpaceForYourGuineaPig.com. You cannot argue what everyone here has experienced for themselves. So stop arguing.

more space + guinea pig = happy pig (and happy pig parent)

This is not advanced calculus.

Lyndsay
09-28-05, 07:16 pm
It seems attention is what she wanted for her misunderstanding of what this site is all about, and attention she got. I highly doubt anyone is going to serve her up anything as well, I have to agree JiggitiyJig, I hate the thought of this, but GpPerson, maybe selling some of your stock so you can afford to house them properly would be an idea.

If you don't care about what we think about your cage sizes, then stop re-bringing it up, and lets find something we do agree on to talk about. We are not mean people, everyone here for the most part is willing to help, but you have to ask, or else all we can do is suggest. Then you can take what you want from it.

smoot
09-28-05, 07:28 pm
I needed to clarify this: I'm not saying Peter Gurney is an awful person, I just wouldn't buy his books. From his site, he seems very sincere in his affection for pigs. He's against breeding skinnies and stopped patronizing a grocery store because they supported hunting. I guess I feel sorry for him because he's undergoing chemotherapy for cancer and I don't want people sending him bad thoughts. You don't have to like him, just don't wish him ill will. Thanks.

NewGPMom
09-28-05, 07:28 pm
I totally agree. Where the heck is the popcorn when we need it???


This thread has become an accident you can't not look at.

Sabriel
09-28-05, 07:59 pm
This thread isn't all bad. I got the idea of a place for my piggie to sit while I am on the computer. I bought a nice little plastic basket (It looks like a mini laundry basket) and made a little quilted pillow to go in it. The pigs get pets, I don't get peed on. Lina seems to be enjoying the ablility to move about a bit while I pet her quite a bit.

It's like Slap Maxwell's cozy idea, but cheaper and water proof! Makes a good carrier for around the house too. I was able to bring Lina to the kitchen and put her down while I got her some green beans out of the fridge. Yum!

Ly&Pigs
09-28-05, 09:14 pm
GPperson, may I refer you to your post #587 where you said and I quote, "or do you like bitching at everything said?" The b word is considered a curse word. The only words acceptable on this forum are the very occasional hell or damn. Again, if you had simply read the link I posted for the rules, you would have known that.

Myspoiltpiggies- you're cursing was the same word in post #593. You said and I quote, "I've not seen anyone 'bitching' in this thread except for your 'friends'. I do not see where it is actually quoted in your post nor is it italicized to mean it is quoted.

There are many teens/kids on this forum and we don't appreciate using that type of language here. So please refrain from doing so in the future. If you want to quote a word someone else used, then either do it like this: bit**ing or :censored: The latter would probably be the better choice. Now I have to go edit threads once again.

Oh and I almost forgot, excuse the heck out of me for having one little spelling error. I guess it proves that I am just as human as everyone else here. I never said that spelling had to be absolutely perfect, now did I. I asked people to not curse and to use appropriate capitalization and punctuation.

salana
09-28-05, 09:32 pm
Hey, the piggie psychologist comment was aimed at whoever was claiming that the pig on the desk was terrified.

Peter Gurney's advice is a mixed bag. He recommends Lasix for heart problems, which gets him major bonus points in my book, but he drops the ball on ivermectin for mites.

JiggityJig
09-28-05, 09:41 pm
Earlier in this monster thread someone asked (sarcastically, I think) if we were piggie psychologists. In a way, the answer is a resounding "Yes!". We have, collectively, thousands upon thousands of hours of piggie observations. We've watched them in puzzlement, delight, concern, in curiosity, trying to learn more about them. We try to discern what they like, what they don't like, and what makes them WHEEK for more!

We have found that they like is more space! That's it. That's the bottom line.



Brilliant. Best post on this entire absurd thread. Indeed, it's not rocket science...just simple powers of observation as we compare/contrast our pigs' reactions to the different environments we offer them.

---

Sabriel, I have a similar setup I use. I have a pig who will sit happily in a little cat bed (only $6 at the Dollar General! Way cheaper than those overpriced cuddle cups!) and never hop out. When I carry that in something with a solid bottom, so that she feels secure, she doesn't mind at all being lugged all over the house, and sometimes I'll carry her around for the company...hers, and mine.

SkinnyGuineaPig
09-28-05, 10:34 pm
Hey Cavy-Cool-Crazy, you forgot Canada! How could you forget Canada!?

I also doubt the person who said they bought a 2X4 foot petstore cage for $150. Lina's tiny cage came to me with the price tag on. It was $125. Now with inflation and the economy the way it is that same cage is probably $150.

That and I have never seen a 2X4 cage in Ontario in a store. A custom cage for sale sure, but not a pet store cage. Also is that the outides lip of the tray or the inside usable dimention? What magical part of Ontario did you say you lived in again?

I baught a cage that is 4 feet by 2 feet wide,and yes i payed it 150$ in all with tax it went to around 170$ They do make cages like that,the cage i have is from Italy and was shipped here,i baught it at my local pet store. Im in Orillia Ontario.Dont say you havent seen this kinda cage in a pet store in ontario,you havent gone all over ontario, So unless you tell me youve visited every pet store in ontario,dont pressume that they dont exist.

Slap Maxwell
09-28-05, 11:08 pm
Can you provide a picture of this cage?

DaCourt
09-28-05, 11:41 pm
Just out of curiosity, are you saying your cage that is 2 feet by 4 feet is the same as a 2x4 C&C cage? Well, if that is your reasoning, then you have not read the cavy cages web site very well. A 2x4 C&C cage is refering to the number of grids. Each grid is 14 inches as opposed to 12 inches in a foot. That would make a 2x4 C&C cage 4 inches wider and 8 inches longer than you 2 feet by 4 feet cage. Big difference.

citronsoul
09-29-05, 02:54 am
I think I'm familiar with the cage that SkinnyPig is talking about. It's from Ferplast I believe.

To be fair, I've been very lucky in finding my C&C supplies here in Belgium. Not everyone is as lucky. Occassionally a few people will try to find the material, but it's rare that they do end up finding them. So the types of cages that SkinnyPig is talking about is widely used over here. The Ferplast range of cages go up to a length of 14O cm (4.6 feet). The general rule is a minimum length of 100 cm (3.2 feet) for one or two guinea pigs. 20 cm have to be added for every additional guinea pig. So SkinnyPigs cage (120cm) could house 3 guinea pigs by Dutch standards, which is slightly smaller than a 2X4. So no, it's not the same C&C sizes, but it's still an improvement. I've also seen people remove the side walls to attach two of them together, so that's also a possibilty to create more room.

I'm pretty lucky to have found cubes & even luckier that my dear ol' dad dragged another (heavy) set over from England for me. I would be very reluctant to try anything else, so I'm now stocked up incase I get any more pigs.

I'd also like to ask about the guinea pigs that have been injured by C&C cages. Why didn't these people get in contact with Teresa to let her know what happened? If there is something dangerous about a C&C cages she should be the first one to know about it. That's why there's a part of this forum dedicated to cage safety. So I must admit that I am skeptical about this being true. I could easily claim the same about guinea pig legs getting caught in the wires of a pet shop cage, couldn't I? (Not saying it did, but if it can happen in a C&C cage, then it could definitely happen in those too.)

Sabriel
09-29-05, 06:42 am
That would cost way more then $150 then. Shipping would cost a ton. My double wide (about half the size of a 2X3) cost $100 in Toronto and that is ony because compitition brings down the price up here. I have seen that cage go for a lot more in smaller towns in Ontario. The cage you speak of, if it is truly the size you say it is would go for $200 since the retailer had to get it shipped over here. So unless that retailer didn't want to make any money it would be a pretty pricey cage.

I looked for a 2X4 (not 2 foot by 4 foot, A 2 grid by 4 grid) sized cage becuase I'm blonde and I suck when it comes to measuring and cutting things. I looked all over Toronto. Now when I compare city living and country living it is very rare you will find something in the country and not find it in Toronto. Now the other way around is true. If it were not I would not be dragging things on the train for my friends back home. They always ask me to pick up such and such. So unless I see a picture of this cage with a ruler then I'm sorry I just won't believe you. That and such a cage is not listed on the cavy cages petstore cage list. Every cage on that list is not even as big as a 2X3.

citronsoul
09-29-05, 07:33 am
http://www.surreypetsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/Orpington_Rabbit_Cages.html

For anyone interested, they're listed on this site. You have scroll down a bit to find "Ferplast Rabbit 120" & "Ferplast Rabbit 140." I'm not sure of their availability in the States or Canada, but these are the ones sold here. Anyone in the UK can order them from that site.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 07:38 am
Shipping to Canada is nuts right now. It would cost me $60 US to ship 10lbs of Cavy Cuisine by UPS. That is not including the price of the Cavy Cuisine. Those cages must weigh more the 10lbs.

So if they are from Europe, even if a store ordered them, they would mark up the price to cover shipping.

Also, C&C supplies are very easy to buy in Canada. Canadian Tire and Home Depot sell cubes. Home Harware and some Ronas sell coro. It costs about $30 CAD to make a decent sized C&C. Why would you spend $150 on something smaller and in my opionion, more cumbersome?

Edit: Neither of those cages is 2 grids wide. I think at minimum a cage should be two grids wide. Only tiny Lina is happy in her loft that is 1 grid wide, but she is only 800g.

citronsoul
09-29-05, 07:46 am
Well I guess it depends on the brand & if it has to be shipped or not. She mentioned Italian, so Ferplast was what I immediately thought of.

But yeah, shipping is such a pain. There's so many nice things I'd like to order from the States for the pigs, but to ship them all the way over to Europe would just cost too much.

Edit: I agree on the price. For my 2x4 I'd have to probably spend about $150 to buy an equivalent pet store cage. I can't remember what I spent on the cubes, but they were second hand & two sheets of coroplast cost about $10. I think I spent about $20 maximum. That's a great deal!

Sabriel
09-29-05, 07:50 am
It's the price of gas that is driving up the costs. Since most things are delivered by truck in Canada, the cost of items increases with the cost of gas. Someone has to pay for the gas and the store will just recover the costs by increasing prices.

It doesn't help that petstore cages don't flat pack very well. My double length and Lina's old single length Hagen cages suck for that. My old PetSmart cage is now a towel rack as that can't be flat packed either.

Gracie
09-29-05, 07:53 am
Do you realise that gpperson last replied to this thread 24 posts ago......and yet you are still talking about it........who's raking over old ground now???????

citronsoul
09-29-05, 07:59 am
I posted to give some additional information for people interested in large cages, but weren't able to use C&C for whatever reason. How is that digging up old ground?

Sabriel
09-29-05, 08:01 am
Hate to tell you but the time zones are responsible for that, not pettiness. See, evening time for you in the UK is working time for people in North America. So while you are sleeping a lot of North American's are posting. The North American's you were speaking with are either housewives like me or people who work night shift and the occasional person who works from home or who hopped on during lunch.

So people came home, read all 15 pages then posted while you were all sleeping. That's why GPperson has not posted for 24 posts. That and we stopped talking about her and started talking about store bought cages.

C&K
09-29-05, 09:32 am
Do you realise that gpperson last replied to this thread 24 posts ago......and yet you are still talking about it........who's raking over old ground now???????

You are:yuck:

Maybe not everything is about you and your friends. Maybe this thread is carrying multipule conversations and you just can't keep up. Perhaps it is either you or your friend that keep bringing it back to all about "old ground".

Seems pretty clear that while a few people had something to say about the Queen of Drama, this thread stepped away from her for awhile, and you just can't stand the diversion, so once again, we are going back in.

I won't be posting in response to you anymore either, as you likewise seem to feed off of it. I am sure that you don't care, but I just want to make it clear that I am not going to feed your addiction for causing trouble anymore either.

I'm out.

Have a nice day;

Amanda

C&K
09-29-05, 09:42 am
Maybe you did. Maybe you have a fantastic store in Orillia, who sells pretty large manufactured cages, and you where lucky enough to pick it up for $150.00

That is not the norm here in Ontario, maybe it is a cheep store with great connections, maybe it was a sale, maybe it was clearance because no one else wanted to put their pigs in it.

The plain fact remains, 2x4 feet is only 8 square feet, and that is not ideal conditions for more then one pig, some would debate it is ideal even for one. However, for more then one, it does not meet C&C standards on this site. If you are happy, then great, what do you care. Perhaps like many you have other space considerations, and don't want to give up your sofa too. Probably most won't, perhaps it takes a real guinea pig nut to give up their own creature comforts. By any means, it does not make you a "bad" person.

I really don't care what it is made out of, as long as it is big enough. As for paying $150.00, it still seems like C&C cages are more cost effective for the average person. If you don't like them, Oh well. Not everyone likes everything. I do have to give you credit, the pigs are not in a shoe box at least. Yay you.

Happy Happy,
Joy Joy;

Amanda



I baught a cage that is 4 feet by 2 feet wide,and yes i payed it 150$ in all with tax it went to around 170$ They do make cages like that,the cage i have is from Italy and was shipped here,i baught it at my local pet store. Im in Orillia Ontario.Dont say you havent seen this kinda cage in a pet store in ontario,you havent gone all over ontario, So unless you tell me youve visited every pet store in ontario,dont pressume that they dont exist.

VoodooJoint
09-29-05, 10:00 am
I baught a cage that is 4 feet by 2 feet wide,

That is the outside measurement you are speaking of, not the inside usable space.

Your profile says you have 4 GPs. A 2foot(24") x4foot(48") cage is too small for 4 GPs. You should have at least a 2grid(28") x 6grid(84"). If you notice that is 90 square inches or a bit more then 4 square feet too small.

So, do me a favor and get off your high horse about your store bought cage. It's much too small.

weaseldropping
09-29-05, 10:00 am
I have five pigs overnighting in a hutch which has 16 square feet, and I feel guilty that they are not in something bigger! We don't have enough room for anything larger, though, and the moveable run is a temporary 18 square feet - it will be doubled as soon as I can can get the materials. I am amazed that people are happy with their pigs in small spaces - I felt that just three pigs would benefit from more than 18 square feet, watching them run about....

salana
09-29-05, 10:04 am
8 square feet--if that actually IS the usable space in the cage--is acceptable for two very friendly pigs.

SkinnyGuineaPig
09-29-05, 10:54 am
Its slowly but Steadly Blowing my mind that you people have the nerve to Question Wether or not i bought my Cage for $150 Dollars. If your truly that bored and would like a copy of the sales Receipt i would be willing. I find it somewhat Pathetic that you have to insult Commerical Cages, the fact you believe making your own cages is soo much better is your Opion which i can always except, but when you find the need to knock anyone who doesn't is where it gets REALLY SAD!!! I dunno what the General problem is ? if your Guinea pigs are more active then you, you might be jobless and bored, or it might be just you guys like the attention you get from it. I can only recommend 1 thing and thats keep doing what makes you and your Guinea pigs happy, but find or use the common sense to keep your mouth shut when it comes to insulting other peoples cages. P.S i am looking forward to your defensive boring Ramble in return. Thank you :)

DaCourt
09-29-05, 11:00 am
It still blows my mind that people will come here and insult C&C cages, when this site is ALL about C&C cages.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 11:02 am
Nope its because I am getting sick of these childish games.
'Go and measure your hutches' I keep on seeing being wrote.
What will it do if I go and measure them, nothing to me because I know how big they are.
Yes i will admit that some of my hutches are smaller that your requirements and if you read previous posts my comment was...
My cages are fine and they will be even better in the future.

I see you have been having fun without me espcially Cavies and Kids, no more posting and you cant keep your nose out can you?
The queen of drama, has to work, unlike some people who can moan about the sizes of hutches/cages.
I agree with what is writen above and I am going to stick to it.

Your sizes of cages are only guidelines and only people who house them in C&C cages agree with it. This is only a guide line! Not everyone in this world is going to sick to it.

Life must be so hard for you to see smaller hutches, well here is a few for your albums, I have found most of these from breeder but a few pet owners...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/blockhutchclose.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/fourhightwowide_jpg.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/2005emma2005/Others/hutch08.gif


It still blows my mind that people will come here and insult C&C cages, when this site is ALL about C&C cages.
It blows my mind when people go on others websites and talk about their hutches when they dont know any details and insult them when they are on this forum.

C&K
09-29-05, 11:34 am
Hey Skinny, I never said that I would not talk to you on this thread, so really, I feel compelled to reply, maybe I just don't have a life, oh well. I am sure you are thrilled:D

I believe you got the cage for $150.00. Personally, I think you are really full of conviction on this, and I don't see why you would lie. However, that being said, even you should be able to see that it may not be as easy to come across a 2 x 4 foot cage for 150.00 in many places.

As for 8 feet being enough room for 2 guineas, from my understanding 7.5 was the min, but more was preferred, and a lot of people give even more then one guinea more room then that. However, being a family of 5 in a 2 bedroom house with only 600 square feet, I can appreciate size restrictions.

If you found a cage big enough for your herd of guineas, I feel you are very lucky. Most people can't and therefore build C&C's. Anyway, do you have 4 in that cage or two? I thought it was 4, and again, that does not fall in C&C guidelines... This is a site that believes in large spacious cages, even larger then your own. You are more then free to your own opinions.:tearsofjo



Its slowly but Steadly Blowing my mind that you people have the nerve to Question Wether or not i bought my Cage for $150 Dollars. If your truly that bored and would like a copy of the sales Receipt i would be willing. I find it somewhat Pathetic that you have to insult Commerical Cages, the fact you believe making your own cages is soo much better is your Opion which i can always except, but when you find the need to knock anyone who doesn't is where it gets REALLY SAD!!! I dunno what the General problem is ? if your Guinea pigs are more active then you, you might be jobless and bored, or it might be just you guys like the attention you get from it. I can only recommend 1 thing and thats keep doing what makes you and your Guinea pigs happy, but find or use the common sense to keep your mouth shut when it comes to insulting other peoples cages. P.S i am looking forward to your defensive boring Ramble in return. Thank you :)

Sabriel
09-29-05, 11:42 am
Its slowly but Steadly Blowing my mind that you people have the nerve to Question Wether or not i bought my Cage for $150 Dollars.

I find it mind blowing that you paid $150 for something you could have built yourself for $30.

salana
09-29-05, 11:45 am
I find it mind-blowing that GPperson invited all her little friends here to defend her honor or whatever, when she thinks our opinions are all so worthless. Yet she has a life.

C&K
09-29-05, 11:46 am
I find it mind blowing that you paid $150 for something you could have built yourself for $30.

Very true, I can't wrap my head around it, but if it lets him sleep better at night, then I suppose it was money well spent.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 11:51 am
Very true, I can't wrap my head around it, but if it lets him sleep better at night, then I suppose it was money well spent.

She

Sabriel
09-29-05, 11:53 am
Is SkinnyGuineaPig in your group of friends too GPperson, or did you just think we were talking about you again?

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 12:35 pm
Nope I know Skinnypig of another forum, a nice forum, who dont say 'do this, do that, your cages/hutches are too small'.

she has 4 lovely skinny pigs, so I guess they are your favorite lab bred.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 12:39 pm
Ah, you belong to a forum that doesn't care then. You know, I think of these places as being like parents. Sure the one who doesn't care and doesn't lay down any rules seems cool, but it's the tough parent who lays down the law who actually does you the most good.

Not that you all seem mature enough to understand all of that.

I think the continued breeding of skinny pigs is just plain wrong. It is a sticking point for me since I have had a heart wrenching time with the one that was dumped on me. I have tried to help you in this thread and treat you like an intelligent person. Do not raise my hackles with silly little taunts.

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 12:41 pm
If only guinea pigs could speak. Then there'd be proof that your cages are too small. If I was a guinea pig living in one of your cages I would wish I was dead. I really would rather be dead.:ashamed:

hollypigs
09-29-05, 12:49 pm
yeah right, whatever

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 12:50 pm
I am an intellegent person, just a person who doesnt agree with C&C guidelines.
The forum does care just not it the way like this one does coming down on people like they are s**t(i thought i'd be polite), for not having 'the right size cages'.

Aww myspoiltpiggies is a lovely person and is the person for starting this thread, I am glad you are so happy with your like childish death threats. How old are you 12?

Sabriel
09-29-05, 12:51 pm
Excuse me, I gave her info one why wood was bad, told her how to make a liner for said wood and gave her the benefit of my professional experience. What more would you people like? My heart on a gold plater?

Edit: Tell me why we should handle you with kid gloves? You are a big girl. If you don't like our way of doing things then why on earth do you hang about on these boards?

daftscotslass
09-29-05, 12:59 pm
I am an intellegent person, just a person who doesnt agree with C&C guidelines.
The forum does care just not it the way like this one does coming down on people like they are s**t(i thought i'd be polite), for not having 'the right size cages'.

Aww myspoiltpiggies is a lovely person and is the person for starting this thread, I am glad you are so happy with your like childish death threats. How old are you 12?

No-one is coming down on anyone without reason. When you signed up for this forum I assume you read the rules regarding the nature of this forum? Here, let me refresh your memory:


This website and forum has been created, paid for and maintained by a rescuer (Cavy Spirit (http://cavyspirit.com/)). The purpose of this forum is to provide an exchange of ideas about CAGES and ENVIRONMENTS that will help promote the betterment of cavies' lives and people's enjoyment of their pets.

It is the cavy cages website. Were you really under any illusions that this was not what the site promoted? I think the conduct of existing members of the forum has been pretty darn honourable. You don't see any of us going onto other forums to argue incessantly about things we know others won't agree on.

And can I just say... death threats?

hollypigs
09-29-05, 01:00 pm
Hmmmmmm lets think about this logically - you guys are not happy about GPperson's cage sizes so what, may i ask do you suggest exactly she do - give them away - who would take them and even if she did they would go into cages the same size or maybe even smaller, give them to a pet shop to sell - where they will almost certainly end up in some ones back garden and freeze to death in winter or throw them out into the street. it would be far too expensive - impossible almost to put all her pigs into your C&C cages unless one of you're lovely members are donating them for free - then you never know.

Sabriel
09-29-05, 01:04 pm
She could always knock down the walls between the cages and combine them. She could then line them (walls, ceiling and all) with coro or lino tiles. But there I go being helpful again. You know, spiteful person I am.

Cavie Cove
09-29-05, 01:11 pm
em daft question why line all of the hutches/cages I mean the wall and celing(sp?)?:confused:

hollypigs
09-29-05, 01:11 pm
yeah but then there is only half the amount of cages and no less guineas - the boars would fight and also may some of the sows

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 01:15 pm
yeah right, whatever
Well you sound like a responsible guinea pig owner;)

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:16 pm
Excuse me, I gave her info one why wood was bad, told her how to make a liner for said wood and gave her the benefit of my professional experience. What more would you people like? My heart on a gold plater?

Edit: Tell me why we should handle you with kid gloves? You are a big girl. If you don't like our way of doing things then why on earth do you hang about on these boards?

Aww cant handle my remarks??
Its like a religiouscult, you must join us or we will burn you and be as spiteful and arrogant as we can.
I have taken you comments and suggestions and will take them into account.
Do you want proof of that? or will that be enough. Its not like I can take a photo of my brain and point out to the part which store the info, now is it?

Myspoiltpiggies
09-29-05, 01:17 pm
Aww myspoiltpiggies is a lovely person and is the person for starting this thread, I am glad you are so happy with your like childish death threats. How old are you 12?
You almost got it, but we are not allowed to post ages if we are under 18;)

daftscotslass
09-29-05, 01:17 pm
em daft question why line all of the hutches/cages?

Because wood absorbs pee and it soaks through several mm of the wood. This constant dampness harbours various microbes that could potentially cause disease. Disinfectants kill some but not all microbes, and the disinfectant cannot penetrate through all the areas the dampness has. Anything wet cannot penetrate plastic.

guineapigqueen
09-29-05, 01:18 pm
You almost got it, but we are not allowed to post ages if we are under 18;)

Oh well they must of let you off then, seen as you are so nice.