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Smudgetoffee
03-14-11, 11:33 am
Hey,

Pig's come out of a general anaesthetic today for spurred teeth at the back. He looked good at first, according to the vet he woke up and straight away started eating with his eyes shut, bless him :p He's been looking in a good state and has been eating no end.

Been about 4 hours since then and he's gone a bit cold, what should I do? He hasn't passed poop yet but I think he's tried a few times. Could he just be tired from all the food he's been eating?

How much should he be drinking? I've given him 5ml of water through syringe.

Cheers

On a much more serious note, people... really, pay attention to the "don't allow selective feeding-type crunches". I was told not to have the Wagg stuff as it allows for selective feeding, I thought rubbish, they've been fine for 5 years, mine are fine.

Why have I changed? Well, a pig named Cyril died 3 years ago from the same problem. Except he hid his symptoms (he was always a big thing and we'd cut down on the food so we just thought he was naturally losing weight), and by the time we started to notice problems he was bordering on emaciated - he narrowly made it through the op, taking many hours to come round. A month afterwards, he went into gastric stasis and lost a 12-hour long struggle.

This pig is in the same situation, and it's only now the vet explained to me about selective feeding - that it causes phosphorous imbalance and lets teeth grow out of control. Our Ginger's in a much better state than Cyril was and is looking much, much better, but we're all still scared of the worst. Don't put the Wagg type stuff in.

Paula
03-14-11, 02:48 pm
Put a heating pad or water bottle or snuggle safe in for him, pigs post op have a hard time regulating their body temperatures. Don't worry too much about no poo yet, but do keep a close eye and if none are passed by morning, take him back in. Sometimes pigs will eat their own poo after an operation. Not necessarily normal, but not terribly abnormal either.

Cogni
03-14-11, 03:06 pm
Oh dear, poor little thing. I am pulling for little Ginger (I assume it is Ginger.)

What is 'Wagg type stuff'?

This is a good educational thread--I didn't know that phosphorus imbalance causes tooth overgrowth, and I didn't know that post-op pigs can't regulate their temp. I now wonder about the calcium-phosphorus ratio often referred to in diet discussions about veggies. Maybe tooth problems are one reason to pay attention to it when feeding, not just with pellets but with veggies as well.

Cogni
03-14-11, 03:23 pm
I just looked it up and found Wagg Guinea Pig Crunch. Full of grains, oils, fruits and syrup. Poor piggies probably pick out the sweet stuff and don't get what they need. Only now do I truly understand what is meant by 'selective feeding'.
Composition

Wheat, Peas, Oatfeed, Wheatfeed, Toasted Soya, Oatfeed, Oats, Flaked Maize, Lucerne, Sunflower Ext., Whole Maize, Vegetable Oil, Apple, Grape, Vitamins & Minerals, Grass, Syrup, Carob Meal, Linseed (0.4%), Yeast (0.04%).
Additives (per kg)

Vitamin A (E672) 120,000 iu, Vitamin D3 (E671) 1,200 iu, Vitamin E (E307) 40 mg, Vitamin C (ascorbyl monophosphate) 200 mg, E1 Iron (iron III ferric oxide) 360 mg, E2 Iodine (calcium iodate) 0.7 mg, E4 Copper (cupric sulphate pentahydrate) 3mg, E5 Manganese (manganous oxide) 13 mg, E6 Zinc (zinc oxide) 11 mg, E6 Zinc (zinc chelate) 11 mg, Antioxidant.
Analytical Constituents

Protein 16.5%, Fat Content 6%, Crude Fibre 9%, Crude Ash 4.5%.

Smudgetoffee
03-15-11, 10:33 am
^Indeedy :( "selective feeding" should be made a bit clearer, or at least its potential repurcussions described on here more often.

He's fine now, a day on and he's back to his usual self!

And thankyou to whoever sent me the PM, it was very helpful to hear it from someone who went through the same, can't see who it was as the page won't load properly at the mo.

Cheers

Ly&Pigs
03-15-11, 12:57 pm
^Indeedy :( "selective feeding" should be made a bit clearer, or at least its potential repurcussions described on here more often.I have stated many, many a time that pellet mixes are not to be fed due to the issues of selective feeding, obesity and potential health problems. I, along with many others have always stated to feed high quality plain pellets only. I don't know how you could have missed that info over and over.

I am glad that your pig is doing well now. I hope you will get them off the mix stuff and onto a good high quality plain pellet.

Smudgetoffee
03-15-11, 02:20 pm
^Didn't mean to come off in that sense, apologies if you read it that way - I meant as in, I was warded off crunch-type food by other members because of "selective feeding" but didn't think it could cause issues this severe. Couldn't find any information on it either, my point was it could do with being a bit better-known.

Smudgetoffee
03-20-11, 10:45 am
He's suddenly took a turn for the worse over the last 24 hours. Having to orally inject mushy food and water since he's not picking up himself. He was perky yesterday and running around - now he just sits in the corner of the house. Eyes are still bright and no signs of respiratory problems, but there's just something... not there. He's lost ~250 grams since before the operation, and is not at 974g. 1yrs 2mths.

Medications are Baytril 0.4ml once a day, Loxicom 0.05ml twice a day, Fibreplex 0.9ml, and this other stuff it wants us to give him which is 40ml? We've tried and he physically won't have it, no matter what we do.

I think he's either having problems with his teeth again (eating VERY slowly) or he's having an intolerance to the antibiotics.

Help

Smudgetoffee
03-20-11, 12:40 pm
Jeez I think we've found our way of bringing him back, he looks the best he has since he came out of the operation.

Basically, we've boiled and blended some carrots into a mushy sort of mess, used his medicine syringes (1ml each, the bigger 10ml ones all broke) to give him the resulting mess orally. Managed to get 7 syringes of the stuff into him and half a syringe of water (though a lot of it's in the carrot mess). We've just seen him go to the water, the crunch, and the hay for the first time within the same minute since the operation.

Fingers crossed!

Cogni
03-20-11, 12:48 pm
I am so glad to hear it! Sounds like he was dehydrated among other things.
What is the 'crunch' he is going to? Do you have plain pellets yet? Is there a way to remedy the phosphorus imbalance he's had so that the teeth start growing correctly?
Good luck, I hope the poor little tyke pulls through and totally recovers his health.

Smudgetoffee
03-20-11, 02:32 pm
Thanks! We've got some new pellets but we've mixed it in with the old wagg, sounds silly after all it's caused but right now we just need to get him back on his feet again, and once he is we'll ween him off it. The pellets alone should be enough to cure the phosphorus imbalance I think, I'll ask the vet on wednesday since he's due a check-up.

Luckily we have a lot of medication from our other pigs' various visits lying about now.

Smudgetoffee
04-27-11, 12:25 pm
We have a problem.

Found him last night very impacted, crusty eyes, and just not right. Upon closer examination he still has his appetite (no question there :p), but seems to have something wrong with his jaw - it keeps popping out on the one side (TMJ gone mental?), and he has to eat with his front teeth, then gag it back to his back teeth or it won't go anywhere. 3 runs of Infacol 1ml/dose solved the impaction, I'm not too sure why that happened, but here's the main problem...

Took him to the vets today, his back teeth are overgrown... again. two lower molars on the one side. They want us to bring him in tomorrow for the same operation.

It's really not looking good, he had a lot of problems after the first one, the vet told us sometimes it can take 3 (or sometimes more) trimmings before the teeth can start correcting themselves, but can he take 3 more anaesthetics? I doubt it.

It's a small animal specialist vet we've been going to for years, they seem to know what they're on about, but are there any alternatives I'm missing? I swear I've read some people doing it themselves with metal frames, maybe I'm just imagining it.

~Edit forgot to add, they're doing a full body X-Ray too, to try and identify why the jaw's popping, and why the impaction happened.

Opinions?

Cheers

Ah yeah out of curiousity, why does this forum slow down a lot these days? Page won't load for a bit, then it'll work fine, then it'll stop loading again. Odd stuff.

foggycreekcavy
04-27-11, 03:39 pm
What is infacol? When you talk about impaction, are you talking about this--

http://www.guinealynx.info/impaction.html ?

I wouldn't attempt to do it yourself. Teeth can splinter, causing more problems.

Did he start eating solid food and hay after his last trimming?

Smudgetoffee
04-27-11, 06:57 pm
What is infacol? When you talk about impaction, are you talking about this--

http://www.guinealynx.info/impaction.html ?

I wouldn't attempt to do it yourself. Teeth can splinter, causing more problems.

Did he start eating solid food and hay after his last trimming?

Ah not impaction, I meant bloating, wrong choice of words.

Infacol is a gut motility drug from what the vets explained to me. Seems to do its job quite well.

The teeth splintering was what worried me, I'm not sure where I've seen it, but I'm fairly sure I remember reading about someone who had 4 pigs with the same problem, who did theirs regularly. Either that or I really am losing my head!

He did indeed, right after waking actually lol, he was in the basket with his eyes closed on his side... while eating. Hasn't lost his appetite once, but he's been up and down with this bloating/weight issue, as our last one was. That's what's worrying.

Smudgetoffee
04-28-11, 02:16 pm
Update...

On the X-Ray, the conclusion is... his teeth are basically rubbish. At the back, some of the roots are physically twisted around eachother, the teeth are different sizes, growing in different directions. At the front, they're apparently starting to grow horizontally.

They had to take one out since it'd curled over completely and made an open puncture wound in his tongue, which is still there though the tooth has been removed completely, and apparently the bloating was because as he tries to use his back teeth, he gulps a lot of air with everything he eats.

The vets said we need to see how long until this happens again, since his body can't take so many anaesthetics, and neither can our finances (£120 every month = do the math), and think it might be best to put him down if the problem will not correct itself.

On the total flipside, he's come through surgery very well, and after a few hours is just a completely normal pig, which is a very good sign as far as I'm concerned.

Do we have any alternatives here?

Cheers

Smudgetoffee
05-29-11, 06:05 pm
Update.

1 month on from the second operation and his teeth are rubbish again. But he seems to be coping with it. He can still eat hay and crunch, albeit very slowly and with difficulty. We get him out twice a day and hand feed him apple (it's a winner for him, he always loves it and can get through it incredibly quickly compared to other food). His weight isn't like it used to be, but has maintained a constant since the operation.

Trouble is, we can't afford it anymore. Now I know I'll get stick for saying this since I know how sensitive people on this forum can be, but £120 every month over the space of 12 months alone = you do the math. We can't take him to a rescue since we're in the UK and there just aren't any that would actually treat him properly round here, and having the teeth issue... well... you can probably guess what they'd do.

But he is coping definitely, and is still a happy, lively, much more friendly pig. Is there anything that could go wrong long-term with teeth overgrowth?

Also, the vets tell us the back teeth aren't horribly bad, it's the incisors (I think? I know it was two near the front) that were the worst by miles, they actually grew horizontally last time. Is there any way he could have these removed completely and still be able to eat okay? I imagine they're of next to no use at the moment anyway.

Only other alternative is, we have plenty of meds stocked up here from the two operations, I imagine if we ask for just the operation alone and none of the medicine they supply (since we have enough) it will be ~£50, which is doable for us, if it comes down to it.

For the record, I asked them last week, he does have elongated roots.

Cheers all

foggycreekcavy
06-01-11, 09:49 am
I had a guinea pig who had constant root infections on her incisors. Despite antibiotics they fell out for good, and I then cut and rolled her veggies so that she was able to get the food back to her cheek teeth. I also gave her clumps of Critical Care daily.

I feel your frustration about the cost. If you can get by without the extra meds (since you already have enough) go that way. There may come a day when his quality of life is affected and you have to make the decision not to continue.

kathlaaron
06-01-11, 10:44 am
As most of you know, I am a "peacemaker" by nature...so I do not mean hurt/harm in any way, but I am a bit confused by something.

Why would anyone be shocked that pellet mixes, would prove harmful later on, in a piggies life ?

And I feel a little frustrated/offended for Ly's sake, when she is the nutritional expert on here, clearly, and in a very organised
, easy to understand way, has made her daily sample diet menu's and veggie/fruit charts easily accessible to all, why would this be in question ?

She and other long time members have also repeatedly advocated over and over and over again how important it is for the health of one's pig, to feed only high quality plain pellets and hay ??

Am I missing something here ? If I am, please help me understand this thread?

kathlaaron
06-01-11, 10:58 am
And by "help me understand" I mean not that others are "questioning" Ly's expertise, but why would her advocacy for plain pellet mixes , not be taken seriously ? Like "what does it matter" really, what pellet mixes are "made of" we know that it is bad for them, so......?? I am referring mostly to the Waggs part of this thread, not the other dental related things. ( even though, ironically, unless largely genetic, it is related to teeth).

Smudgetoffee
06-01-11, 01:01 pm
It's not that I'm not taking them seriously, my pigs actually just won't eat the pellets, no matter what brand or choice, they never have done. Tried weaning them off and they just won't have it, and it's the balance between weaning them off (or trying to) and him surviving post-op the way our Cyril didn't. If we tried pellets again he'd go the same way because he just wouldn't eat them.

Problem is, our pigs were pet-store bought (bad idea I know) where they are raised on it, so changing them off it just doesn't happen.

@foggycreekcavy, can your pig still eat well and does it depend on you for handfeeding? If it comes down to it I may have them removed, I imagine since they're growing horizontally they're of no use in our pig's case anyway. Though on the latest X-Ray a few of them seem to have broken off naturally, he seems to be getting by as it is.

Think I'll just end up getting one done every three or so months if possible, it's the only way we can.

Paula
06-01-11, 01:43 pm
Kathlaaron, you are making an issue where there is none. The OP addressed your question long ago in the beginning of the thread, I'm not sure why you're raising it again. Let's drop it.

Smudgetoffee, please don't feel the need to explain yourself further on that issue.

It sounds to me like you are doing all you can as far as managing the condition and his quality of life. I can sympathize with the costs. I have a pig with malo, so I know how frustrating tooth issues can be in the first place; I can't imagine having to consider removing teeth, but kudos to you for all you are doing to keep this guy alive and thriving.

Smudgetoffee
06-01-11, 02:49 pm
On the latest X-Ray he doesn't seem to be doing badly as far as teeth go, a few of them seem to have broken naturally - which has made them slightly usable to him again.

The plan is, every 3-4 months we will have his teeth trimmed, but none of the additional meds since we have enough to last a good few trims - should bring the cost down from £120 to about £55. We're going to try and wean him onto the pelleted stuff but only gradually since his weight hasn't long been out of the critical zone, and have a few brands ready to try him on. We're going to cut his front teeth ourselves with the same stuff our vet does, as recommended by guinealynx. Not sure how this plan will work out long-term but it's the best chance we have.

Also, brief video of pig in question, being his perky self:

YouTube - ‪Ginger/Cavycages‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usVHYTOQQUo)

Point being, even pigs with problems like these the vet told us may need putting down, still have a fighting chance. Anyone with any ideas, please share, I'd love to hear.

kathlaaron
06-01-11, 04:41 pm
I am sorry.

foggycreekcavy
06-01-11, 10:31 pm
I did not have to hand feed at first--she could eat the critical care out of a dish (I mixed it up really thick and made a ball) and could eat the veggies as long as she could get them back to her molars.

Eventually, though, it wasn't enough and she was losing too much weight. I ultimately had her euthanized.

Smudgetoffee
06-16-11, 07:58 am
I did not have to hand feed at first--she could eat the critical care out of a dish (I mixed it up really thick and made a ball) and could eat the veggies as long as she could get them back to her molars.

Eventually, though, it wasn't enough and she was losing too much weight. I ultimately had her euthanized.

Damn, sorry to hear that.

Just thought I'd give a little update, the pig's doing okay, he's a little lad now @ 780g (down from 1067g before his first operation) and picks up chest infections frequently (though they are easily treated) due to his size.

He is, however, having less trouble eating - either his teeth have broken off naturally or something, or he's found a way of coping, though he's still having issues (0:20 onwards on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNaD4nTA40)).

I doubt we'll run into any major issues just yet though.

Smudgetoffee
06-21-11, 03:45 pm
Pig unable to eat crunch since this morning, put on 0.4ml baytril as previously instructed after op and 0.05ml loxicom. Very very slow eating, taking in for further operation tomorrow but he's gone down quite rapidly and is struggling with cucumber. Seems to be moving his jaw very slowly.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Cogni
06-21-11, 03:57 pm
Critical care in a syringe? Oh I hope your little lad makes it!

Smudgetoffee
06-22-11, 01:17 pm
Did similar, and at the same time, I think we've managed to solve the phosphorous imbalance catch-22 problem he's suffering with.

If selective feeding causes it, it makes sense to crush up the crunch and water it down to create a kind of mushy stuff (can't get crit care over here unfortunately). This is what I did last night, the little lad's perked up a bit. Cheers for the advice!

Took the pig into vets earlier, it's only the one tooth that's gone this time!! the other two are normal again, and he's having it burred tomorrow. They can't extract because it's too deep rooted, and presumably he'd be likely to die of infection afterwards.

I will keep updating the thread with the new treatment he's having afterwards for the sake of those reading who have the same problem.

On a side note, both pigs sounded a bit wheezy last night, dosed them up with 0.2ml baytril each as a precautionary measure. They seem in a better state today.

We've already lost one pig to this. We don't plan on losing another.

kathlaaron
06-22-11, 04:15 pm
Would a chin sling help do you think ? Here is that link on the chin sling treatment: http://www.guinealynx.info/chinsling.html

I really hope earlier in the thread that you didn't feel "attacked" by me. I was just unclear about why you were using a pellet mix to begin with, that's all, and thank you, for explaining why.

I really do hope you don't lose your sweet piggie too, and am so sorry for all the cost and grief their teeth problems have given you. How old is your piggie ? I saw your cute video clips, and he sure looks good though, what a handsome fellow he is !

Smudgetoffee
06-22-11, 05:52 pm
Would a chin sling help do you think ? Here is that link on the chin sling treatment: http://www.guinealynx.info/chinsling.html

I really hope earlier in the thread that you didn't feel "attacked" by me. I was just unclear about why you were using a pellet mix to begin with, that's all, and thank you, for explaining why.

I really do hope you don't lose your sweet piggie too, and am so sorry for all the cost and grief their teeth problems have given you. How old is your piggie ? I saw your cute video clips, and he sure looks good though, what a handsome fellow he is !

I was thinking about that, can't find any in the UK and vets know nothing of them round here. Considering making a makeshift one, I have the material.

And I didn't feel attacked, it was a genuine question, and without questioning there is little progress in my eyes! He is indeed, he's always been an odd one though we love him for it! Aside from this he's a perky little thing. It pains me to think other pigs may end up being put down due to problems like these that could be corrected with (lots of) perseverence.

Anywho, the reason I've been updating this thread a lot is so hopefully if someone's searching around they'll find it and know it's a condition that can be worked with.

For reference to anyone reading, I have now bought a load of syringes (they go mouldy quite quick), and have a mug in which I pour the wagg (I'm very tempted to try out the pelleted food on it too, though he's taking the wagg quite well and he can't exactly selectively feed a syringe), then pour water to a level just diluted above the wagg - I then use a glass that just fits inside to crush it up, a layman's mortar and pestle if you will. He likes the stuff, and I'm hoping this will be the last time he will need a teeth trim (he had to go back 4 weeks after his first burr, 6 after that, and now about 7 and a half with only one tooth!).

kathlaaron
06-23-11, 12:08 am
[quote=Smudgetoffee;557380]I was thinking about that, can't find any in the UK and vets know nothing of them round here. Considering making a makeshift one, I have the material.

I bet you could make one yourself, that's great ! I don't know where you would find the material neoprene ( the stuff wet suits are made of) but velcro is certainly easy enough to find !

And I didn't feel attacked, it was a genuine question, and without questioning there is little progress in my eyes!

Thank-you for understanding, I am so relieved. For too late I realized that I sort of came off kind of rude, and Paula had every right to chastise me.


He is indeed, he's always been an odd one though we love him for it! Aside from this he's a perky little thing.

He is, most definitely, quite a little soldier, isn't he ?! Bless his heart !


Anywho, the reason I've been updating this thread a lot is so hopefully if someone's searching around they'll find it and know it's a condition that can be worked with.

"EXACTLY." It is so good for others to see your thread, and learn from it too..as well as not feel so alone, in dealing with difficult dental problems such as this ! I just cannot imagine, it must take such a toll..not just financially, but emotionally too..for both caregiver, and piggie ! My heart and prayers go out to you and your brave little soldier....

foggycreekcavy
06-24-11, 01:24 pm
You can only get the chin sling from one source, the one listed at Guinea Lynx. She sells not only the sling, but also sells the pattern for you to make one yourself. They are very small--I made mine out of a wrist support.

Smudgetoffee
06-26-11, 11:17 am
[quote=Smudgetoffee;557380]I was thinking about that, can't find any in the UK and vets know nothing of them round here. Considering making a makeshift one, I have the material.

I bet you could make one yourself, that's great ! I don't know where you would find the material neoprene ( the stuff wet suits are made of) but velcro is certainly easy enough to find !

And I didn't feel attacked, it was a genuine question, and without questioning there is little progress in my eyes!

Thank-you for understanding, I am so relieved. For too late I realized that I sort of came off kind of rude, and Paula had every right to chastise me.


He is indeed, he's always been an odd one though we love him for it! Aside from this he's a perky little thing.

He is, most definitely, quite a little soldier, isn't he ?! Bless his heart !


Anywho, the reason I've been updating this thread a lot is so hopefully if someone's searching around they'll find it and know it's a condition that can be worked with.

"EXACTLY." It is so good for others to see your thread, and learn from it too..as well as not feel so alone, in dealing with difficult dental problems such as this ! I just cannot imagine, it must take such a toll..not just financially, but emotionally too..for both caregiver, and piggie ! My heart and prayers go out to you and your brave little soldier....

Gonna try make one a bit later, probably got a few odds out in the garage somewhere I can cobble together for him!

And without you, and the others posting in this thread, I'm not sure what I'd have done - If I hadn't have questioned my own technique and had it questioned by others, I'd probably have never come up with the methods of treating him I have now.

Big thanks to you all!


You can only get the chin sling from one source, the one listed at Guinea Lynx. She sells not only the sling, but also sells the pattern for you to make one yourself. They are very small--I made mine out of a wrist support.

Will look into it then, cheers.

Update:

Haven't been around the last few days so had to leave the duty of guinea pig caring to the parents post-op, though I did take him into my hands for a day before I left, got him off the ground enough for him to eat.

Was woken by parents late today so I can't testify how I was before this happened, apparently he had been eating very slowly all day and suddenly collapsed, becoming unresponsive from front legs-down. Gave him shots of the usual meds and food/water and it brought him back, but what did I notice?

A tooth had fallen out. 99% sure it's a tooth, was stuck on the front of his tongue, forced it off with a syringe and he was able to eat again. Another thing to reinforce this - syringe feeding water made a whistling sound, anyone else who's had teeth out probably knows what I mean.

It looks newly burred so fingers crossed it's the bad one! No signs of infection or anything like that, I think it constantly being forced against his upper teeth must have loosened it. I wish I'd been around to see him earlier though, he's dropped to 700g, poor little lad. He's out in colour again now though so fingers crossed.

Can upload a pic if anyone wants to see.

Oh yeah, if I forgot to add previously, he had his teeth burred a few days ago. One was severely overgrown and another was slightly overgrown. Same two molars at the back. He's been up and down since the op.

Cogni
06-26-11, 01:30 pm
The poor, poor darling. Yes, I'd like to see a picture. I sure hope getting that tooth out of his tongue has allowed him to perk up a lot.
Best of luck with the little lad.

Smudgetoffee
06-26-11, 06:09 pm
Unfortunately can't get one up anymore as it started going an odd colour so the 'rents threw it out (had it in a container that was gonna show to the vets)

Not looking too good at the moment, he hasn't perked up much and is having trouble still, making clicking/grinding noises. I think another tooth is on its way out.

Have an exam tomorrow until 12pm but parents being themselves aren't willing to help out. Tempted to borrow some taxi money off a mate and try get him to the vets myself.

Smudgetoffee
06-26-11, 06:29 pm
Scratch that, just been down 3hrs after I last checked him, he has picked up muuuch much better and is eating normally! Maybe the meds did it or another tooth came out, but he can now take syringe feeding without bringing it back up again.

Will keep a close eye on the lad in fear of stasis.

Smudgetoffee
06-28-11, 02:27 pm
Need help pretty urgently. He isn't eating.

Rushed him to the vets last night and he was given 3 injections, a painkiller (analgesic), an anti-inflammatory, and another I can't remember the name of.

He was okay for a few hours, hence last post, but condition has dropped again. He's not eating in the cage at all, just sits there looking bored.

Confusing thing is, the vets gave him a full checkover, none of his teeth are currently damaged, no signs of mouth infection, no signs of abscess, no signs of anything, everywhere was checked. There's no reason as to why he's not eating but he just isn't.

He is, however, not currently in a critical state, and despite not eating in cage is dependant on feeding outside the cage 3 times a day, equivalent to about 1 cucumber in total I'd say. He has 3 doses of crushed up cucumber through syringe since it's all he can manage, and have dug out some more BioLapis which is seeming quite effective. He feels like a normal pig in himself and has put weight on (800g->831g), but just isn't eating no matter what.

Any ideas? :/

Current meds include:

3 x 1ml/day Infacol
2 x 0.05ml/day Loxicom (stuff looks and feels basically the same as metacam)
4 x 10ml/day Bio-Lapis Isotonic
1 x 0.4ml/day Baytril
1 x 0.8ml/day Fibreplex
3 x 15~30ml/day Cucumber

Cheers

Smudgetoffee
06-29-11, 12:29 pm
It's been several days from the vets, he's still not eating at all. Condition declining steadily. No weight loss, still passing properly, but little movement and some discharge. Nothing is working.

I hate to say it, but I think it's time to consider putting him down...

Cogni
06-29-11, 12:55 pm
Oh that is so rough. Very hard to make that decision. Do you get the sense that he is suffering? I wonder why no weight loss if he is not eating at all.
I feel for you.

Smudgetoffee
06-29-11, 01:14 pm
Thankyou, it means a lot.

He just seems like a shell of his old self, most of the time he lies slumped in the corner of the cage but still responsive, every so often he gets up, tries to eat, gets frustrated, throws a tantrum like he usually does then goes back to how he was. He just doesn't seem happy.

We're going in to have X-Rays done tomorrow on his jaw and spine, and any other possibilities exhausted. If he doesn't pick up, there's only one thing left to do...

On the plus side, he's reacted positively to the baytril, but not a lot. Discharge and wheeze has gone, but still not eating and little movement. He's definitely got a slack jaw, so hopefully the X-ray picks something up.

I can only guess the weight is due to syringe feeding. He is fed 5-6 times a day 4 hourly with about 15ml of cucumber in a syringe each time. Every 2 hours he is weighed, and after syringe feeding he is about 820~835, in between about 800-815.

Thankyou, it means a lot.

He just seems like a shell of his old self, most of the time he lies slumped in the corner of the cage but still responsive, every so often he gets up, tries to eat, gets frustrated, throws a tantrum like he usually does then goes back to how he was. He just doesn't seem happy.

We're going in to have X-Rays done tomorrow on his jaw and spine, and any other possibilities exhausted. If he doesn't pick up, there's only one thing left to do...

On the plus side, he's reacted positively to the baytril, but not a lot. Discharge and wheeze has gone, but still not eating and little movement. He's definitely got a slack jaw, so hopefully the X-ray picks something up.

I can only guess the weight is due to syringe feeding. He is fed 5-6 times a day 4 hourly with about 15ml of cucumber in a syringe each time. Every 2 hours he is weighed, and after syringe feeding he is about 820~835, in between about 800-815.

He's still excreting and weeing fine, his weight's fine, but there's clearly something very wrong with him.

kathlaaron
06-29-11, 04:17 pm
I am so sorry that he is not doing so well...poor little guy !

How old is he and what is his name ?

I am so so very sorry that you are going through all of this, and really hope that they can pinpoint what is going on with him. Prayers and hugs for you both my dear !

Smudgetoffee
06-29-11, 05:17 pm
I am so sorry that he is not doing so well...poor little guy !

How old is he and what is his name ?

I am so so very sorry that you are going through all of this, and really hope that they can pinpoint what is going on with him. Prayers and hugs for you both my dear !

Thanks, he's picked up a bit luckily! a dose of baytril did the trick, he's had more than prescription states but it's certainly worked. His name is Ginger, in the pic in my avatar for the record, and only 14mths old.

We're not really sure what to think at this stage, he's very jekyll and hyde this one. Earlier, he seemed to be on his last legs, I've never seen him closer to it. After the shot of baytril he's moving around again, no discharge or wheeze seen since, and for the first time since the op has tried to eat himself!! He managed to get a few bits of crunch, mainly the hay mixed in, not a lot by any means but definitely progress. Have changed meds as follows:

2 x 0.3ml Baytril/day
3 x 1ml Fibreplex/day
1 x 1ml Infacol/day (3/day If the above is having little effect)
2 x 0.85 Loxicom/day (again slightly over prescription but working)
6+ x 15ml (20g) Purée carrot/day (this works brilliantly, have a 10ml syringe which I load it into the top of)

Have stopped other medication since it may be making him drowsy. He's definitely returning to himself though, I can hear him arguing with Smudge again bless him.

Have ordered Oxbow, contacted [email protected] and am looking to buy a chin sling (you can see his front teeth just looking at him his jaw's that slack, I'm certain that's the cause of the problem!)

Do hope the little lad picks up. Since I'm on the 15 weeks' holiday I've practically spent the whole time so far looking after him, not complaining about time because it's no object but it's going to be so hard if he doesn't make it.

kathlaaron
06-29-11, 06:45 pm
Wow...so he is still fairly young, oh my I sure hope they can find out what is wrong with Ginger on tomorrow ! I just cannot imagine what a nightmare this has been. I really really hope he pulls through too. I am already very attached to both my girls, especially my girl Buttercup. If anything were to happen to Buttercup I would be devastated !!
It scares me and makes me feel so vulnerable, to love them, so darn much !

I will be thinking and praying for you and Ginger tomorrow....and really hope they finally shed some light on what is ailing him, for this is some long scary tunnel !!

Smudgetoffee
06-30-11, 02:25 am
Have taken him in for X-Raying, he has to be lightly anaesthatized so we're picking him up later.

The vet gave his jaw a feel and said it doesn't feel physically deformed but his jaw muscles are very tense, and there shouldn't be a reason for this happening.

Worst of it is, the vet's recommendation is to put him down since he just isn't picking up... is it the kinder thing to do, or am I missing something here? Some kind of viral infection that might clear up?

Such a shame, he's a perky pig in himself, just unable to eat and drink without my help. 14 months is no age.

Toadies
06-30-11, 07:51 am
Smudge, it's a difficult decision, no matter which way you choose to go. I wanted to tell you about a 13 yr old kitty that I had that had to have an eye removed. The vet suggested that , if she wasn't eating on her own after 3 days, that I put her down. Well, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I continued to force feed her (she actually gained weight) and sure enough, on day #4 she was eating on her own. Then there was Slick, my last GP. He was almost 6 yrs old when he developed pneumonia and bloat. After 3-4 days of trying to get him to eat enough and him just letting the food roll out of his mouth, I said "enough" and had him put to sleep. He may have made it if I kept after it, but he was 6 and there was no guarantee that he would be ok, so I elected to not ask any more of him. I think the difference was that I felt that "PJ", the kitty, was trying to fight, while Slick was tired and just wanted peace. You know your little guy. You can probably sense if he still has the desire to go on. Whatever course you choose, I wish you and your boy the best and that you will be at peace with your decision.

Smudgetoffee
06-30-11, 10:25 am
SUCCESSSSSSS!!!!!!!

They found two spikes on the X-Ray that looked like very deformed teeth and removed them, aside from that everything came back normal! 2 hours out from anaesthetic and he's eaten a chunk of cucumber himself without us forcing it down his throat - we're thinking it was physically stopping him close his jaw properly, they were right at the very far back and were "very hard to get at".

Hopefully it's gonna stay this way!

@Above - Sorry to hear that, and thankyou for letting me know your experience, it helps a lot.

Cogni
06-30-11, 12:30 pm
Oh my gosh! That is such good news! I am so happy for you and Ginger!

I remember the time my young Tufty was so sick and the vet thought he was a goner, and we might have to hasten the end. But he was a tough little fighter and he pulled through. It sounds like your Ginger is similar (I'm thinking of those tantrums when he can't eat!). I am heartily wishing you all positive thoughts for his speedy recovery.

kathlaaron
06-30-11, 06:17 pm
HOORAY !!!!! That is GREAT news ! Thank you so much for keeping us all updated ! Yee...HAW ! I am so happy for you and Ginger...over the moon, happy for you...man, that is just so wonderful.

Smudgetoffee
06-30-11, 07:49 pm
Oh my gosh! That is such good news! I am so happy for you and Ginger!

I remember the time my young Tufty was so sick and the vet thought he was a goner, and we might have to hasten the end. But he was a tough little fighter and he pulled through. It sounds like your Ginger is similar (I'm thinking of those tantrums when he can't eat!). I am heartily wishing you all positive thoughts for his speedy recovery.

Thankyou! he's certainly kicked death in the face more than enough times now, hopefully all stays this way - he's gone back to his usual self now, throwing tantrums when Smudge is the one getting the attention, going out of his way to annoy Smudge as much as possible (stealing his food, leaving it somewhere the other side of the cage to make him come out and find, so funny to watch), and just generally throwing his weight around in the usual Ginger way! (Though that said, both pigs are getting on well and clearly missed eachother)

He is, by a mile, the cheekiest pig ever.


HOORAY !!!!! That is GREAT news ! Thank you so much for keeping us all updated ! Yee...HAW ! I am so happy for you and Ginger...over the moon, happy for you...man, that is just so wonderful.

Haha, many thanks!

Hopefully he's gonna stay this way, he's not getting too far but he began eating a small amount by himself after only a few hours of coming round, we were told he probably wouldn't be eating anything more than mushy syringe stuff for a few days too. He still needs handfeeding but is a lot easier to handfeed, got 25ml critcare into him in a few minutes, which seems a lot more viable long-term if he's constantly going to be at least partially dependant on us for feeding (problem being with college soon etc, have only been able to be here for him most of the day due to the time in between, but if he can take this much he might only need feeding 3-4 times a day).

Will keep you all updated, genuinely hoping it stays this way, still don't know what I'd do without this little lad. Still waiting on CCT's response so will update there when possible.

Also, after just an hour of coming round, he was jumping out his box and making a runner for the cage!

Smudgetoffee
07-04-11, 05:38 pm
Been a while since I updated... will paste what I wrote on the thread on GL.


spleenharvester4
I know a lot of people are gonna hate me and the parents for this... but it has to be done.

Took him in today through emergency since he was wheezing very loudly. Apparently the food's piling up in his foodpipe because for some reason his stomach can't handle the food going in. They also suspect some form of tumor since his eye is protruding a lot more than it was. His spikes have *already* grown back and are piercing his mouth. As well as that, even when his mouth is in good condition, he won't eat whatsoever.

I've just got back from prom so I didn't make the decision, but the parents are taking him in sometime this week to be euthanized. Poor thing just seems to have had enough, he slumps in the corner of the cage and doesn't move; that's not a life for a pig to lead. It doesn't matter how many times he's treated, we have to put the pig first, and he's quite obviously just not happy at all and in pain - we could keep him alive in this state but that'd be just bordering on cruelty.

Thankyou all for the help and support - it really has meant a lot.

He had a few false rises but he's back to his old state. As per the text, thankyou for all the help and support you've all given me, I don't know where I'd be without people on these forums.