How Important Is Lap Time?

I have something that worked for us. We have one pig who just HATED to be petted, let alone picked up/bathed/whatever. He just wriggled and struggled and scratched everyone in his attempts to get away, poor thing. It made us feel like terrible pig parents! But having read on here that pigs can learn words, we decided to try something.

We sat down beside the cage, and put one hand in, slowly, and rubbed his nose. Nowhere else - just from the nostrils up to the top of his head and back down. Sometimes we did it while he was eating (cos he was still) and sometimes while he was inside a sleeping bag with his head sticking out, and sometimes just when he was hanging out. And each time we did it, we said "Pet", very clearly before we did it, and kept repeating it (like "good pet, nice pet, pet the pig", etc) the whole time. We did this for a couple of weeks, and we never tried to pet him anywhere else, or pick him up, or do anything besides these nose rubs, and always with the word "pet". After a couple of weeks, he realized that "pet" was a good thing, and that we weren't trying to con him into anything else, and he began sticking his nose forward sometimes, even before we said "pet". Now all we do is ask him "Pet?" once, and he will stop running around, or even come out of his sleeping bag for his nose rub. It's pretty amazing!

Once he'd realized that being petted was pretty nice, he got a lot easier to pick up (we never do this with "pet", though - he needs to know that "pet" is JUST a pet), especially if, after the trauma of being picked up, he got to sit on our laps and get a "pet" (again with the words and only petting the nose.). It's been about 3 months now, and he gets petted and held every day, and will even snuggle in for a cuddle and close his eyes. It's like having a different pig!!

I'm going to try it with "pick up" next time, to see if he can learn that we just want to pick him up, not kill him or eat him or take him to the vet, which is what he seems to assume when he realizes a hand is reaching round his tummy!

Thanks for the feedback Sirene, it's something to consider. My boys hate being touched at all. They'll flee at the sight on an approaching hand, unless it has food in it. They will, however, come up and sniff my hand if I just hold it still.

But if they understand words, perhaps they can be clicker trained? I could click every single time they get food, pellets, floor time, whatever, so that they learn that click=goodness. Then, when they voluntarily approach, they get a click, and progress from there? Has anyone tried clicker training guinea pigs? Does it work?

I've seen a clicker-trained pig on youtube - he does bending/weaving poles, like they do in horse and dog agility. I think his owner even posted on here a while back. So it IS possible...

I think the trick is to do it often or on a schedule.

Actually, one day I had to keep grabbing Maggie out of the cage. I probably grabbed her five times. She wanted me to die by the end of the day, I could see the fire in her eyes. I felt bad. However, the next day I picked her up and she acted like it was no big thing. It was like she was used to it. Since she has been a lot better.

They always run like my hand is a steak knife but once I have them they are usually just kind of like "Hurry up and get to where we are going Mommy!"

Clicker training is possible but you probably have to associate food with it also. If you can clicker train them to know something good is coming it might be helpful. I don't know if this would be a big problem but mine are scared to death of the clicker noise.

Good to know Sirene, I'll try picking up a clicker. I hope my boys don't end up scared of the sound. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that prey animals are more likely to be scared of sounds like that because it sounds like a twig breaking, and makes them think something might be sneaking up on them. I'm not sure how sound the science on that is though. It might be worth a try anyways.

MaggieMae, I think you may have a point about the schedule. Right not I do things at roughly the same time-ish (fresh hay in the morning, floor time in the afternoon, veggies hand fed throughout the day, etc), but I think there's enough variance that they don't always know what's about to happen. So I'll try setting alarms and going exactly by the clock.

I'm making some progress making some progress getting them to let me touch them. The boys are hand fed all their veggies as a way to get them to bond with me. So, while they were eating yesterday, I tried saying "Pet" and stroking them, as Sirene suggested. At first they freaked out at every touch, but greed overcame their skittishness, and now they'll tolerate a couple of strokes on the head before they run off a bit to chew, then come back for another nibble of food. So progress! Yay!

To me personally, lap time is very important. My guinea pig poppy was extremely skittish, she wouldnt come to the side of the cage, wouldnt be picked up, nothing.
And now she runs to the side of the cage everytime i walk in the room!
Everynight, along with my mum, i covered my bed with a mattress pad, a towell, and a fleece. Then, i put a fleece dog cat bed on the fleece, i put a romaine lettuce leaf inside it, then got out both my pigs, put them in the fleece bed, and now everytime they see the fleece bed they get mega excited. Last night, i put poppy on my lap, and she was popcorning on me! it was so cute.
Maybe this will work with you

@RandomOne- at least you cover your bed! My friend doesn't, it's so gross!

If your pigs really don't enjoy it, then I wouldn't push it. Give them time, maybe they will warm up to it eventually!

Keep doing it. We had a pig that would kick and scream everytime we picked him up. He also bit us... In the last 6 months we have him to where he gets pickup up, does a few circles like a cat on a my lap to get comfy and falls right asleep. Insane!

The 3 things that worked for us:
-The carrot thing that you are already doing
-A cuddle sack, Snickerdoodle still prefers it. Ours is black, so it's like hanging out in a cave. I will sometimes bring him in bed with me at night, in his sack, and let him just nap on my belly while we watch our sitcoms. When he wakes up I know he's ready to go back to pee.
-Time of day. I pick them up when they are napping, they are calm, usually stuffed with food and hay and much more receptive. During their active time of day they will be more fidgety and want to get away.

We have seen the most amazing changes in this crazy, "ferocious", emaciated piggy we found in a park! on a rainy day in May. He has "blossomed" and is the friendliest, most lovable pet I've had. If he can come around any pig can.

Disclaimer: He does of course run away when I try to pick him up, but he'll run once, then give up and just stand still while I pick him up. He is INCREDIBLY afraid of heights, way more than our other pig, so I cover his eyes with my hand or the cuddle sack.

Nicolene - that was just a beautiful post to read! I am so taken with snickerdoodle and how you've helped him realise that life is nice! now. Its interesting to read that you pick them up when they are napping. And I love that you are so considerate to cover his eyes. Little humane things like that seem to be universally a key...

Sirene said:

We sat down beside the cage, and put one hand in, slowly, and rubbed his nose. Nowhere else - just from the nostrils up to the top of his head and back down. Sometimes we did it while he was eating (cos he was still) and sometimes while he was inside a sleeping bag with his head sticking out, and sometimes just when he was hanging out. And each time we did it, we said "Pet", very clearly before we did it, and kept repeating it (like "good pet, nice pet, pet the pig", etc) the whole time. We did this for a couple of weeks, and we never tried to pet him anywhere else, or pick him up, or do anything besides these nose rubs, and always with the word "pet". After a couple of weeks, he realized that "pet" was a good thing, and that we weren't trying to con him into anything else, and he began sticking his nose forward sometimes, even before we said "pet". Now all we do is ask him "Pet?" once, and he will stop running around, or even come out of his sleeping bag for his nose rub. It's pretty amazing!

Once he'd realized that being petted was pretty nice, he got a lot easier to pick up (we never do this with "pet", though - he needs to know that "pet" is JUST a pet), especially if, after the trauma of being picked up, he got to sit on our laps and get a "pet" (again with the words and only petting the nose.). It's been about 3 months now, and he gets petted and held every day, and will even snuggle in for a cuddle and close his eyes. It's like having a different pig!!

Click to expand...

I'll have to try this. Thanks so much for posting it.

Like Sirene I alway use words - I talk to Gizzy and Sniper all the time. Gizzy was a lot easier than Sniper but he already know all the words that I need to let him know whats going on. The key words I currently use with him is:

Drukkie = hug - all he gets is a head rub
Klim = Climb - I hold open a cuddle cup which means he needs to climb into it
titteweit = Cleaning - I get squeals for this cause it what I say when we are going to check and maybe even clip nails
Sit = Stay - he needs to stay on the sofa/bed cause I am moving something or getting up

And so on...but it has made our lap time -which I think is very rewarding to the owner and in the end of the day fun for the pet as well - a lot better! So keep at it.

Thanks for all your feedback guys. I thought I'd post a quick update on how things are going. We are starting to make progress!

I've been working diligently on using specific words, and they now understand that "Oi oi oi!" means food time, that "scritches" means that I just want to pet them (although they don't always like being petted), and that "home time" means I'm going to put them back in their cage now.

Jet has made the most progress. He still hates to be picked up but, since he refuses to step up into a box or basket, I still have to corner him and catch him. He only puts up a token struggle though, then settles down quickly. He used to start fussing as soon as the food ran out, but now he'll sometimes settle down for a little petting once he's done eating.

Blaze still has a long way to go. He still screams when we pick him up, but at least he's easier to herd into a box than his brother. He never really settles down, and I can't have him out as long as his brother because he wriggles so hard I'm afraid he'll hurt himself. But he's definitely come around from where he used to be.

My piggy hates being on my lap but sitting on my chest or on my sholder to watch tv and she's perfectly happy. If I happen to have a blanket with me she'll curl up and sleep on my lap burrowed into the blanket. :3

I'm going to have to try the word association thing. Neither of my pigs particularly enjoy lap time, but it always worked out because between my boyfriend and I, one did better than one pig and the other did better with the other pig. Fred, my rambunctious male who scratches me to death and tries to climb up my shoulder and take a flying leap off the back every time he's picked up, does better when my boyfriend holds him. Mostly because my boyfriend doesn't hold him, he pets him and gives him a treat and lets him explore the desk. Ani, my calmer (spayed) girl pig, I do much better with because she sits still and lets me pet her and doesn't try to wander off for a few minutes, at least.

I always just thought it was personality differences and left it at that, but lately they've both been so unhappy with lap time that I don't do it often, and their behavior's taken a turn for the worse. With Fred it's a perpetuating cycle: he doesn't like being held tightly, but if I let him go he takes a flying leap the first chance he gets. If he gets lap time with me, he gets it while I'm sitting on the floor and he's in a cuddle sack so he feels safe and can't go far.

Hopefully with a better routine and some training via treats and word association, they'll get the hang of it.

I have a question for the experienced... if a piggie is wanting to jump like Holly&Fred expressed above.... would it be acceptable to have piggie in a safety harness? my thoughts are running along these lines: that a harness might prevent a floor crash-landing if held by the lead correctly and; return piggie back to the lap time essentially without hand pressure, so that in a way piggie is training himself - if he relaxes nothing happens, but treats maybe, and if he pulls he is only pulling against himself. My reasoning would be that, for the human, an amount of worry and stress might be avoided at the same time - double pluses... ? I hope?

I think cavies just need time. My first cavy, Miss Piggy, who was adopted way back in April of 2010...she at first was very wiggly when I tried to get her out to play or be held. She was also skittish of any bit of noise, as she was previously kept outside (before I adopted her ). Now, 8 months later, not a thing bothers her and she is always the one wheeking for attention. I had her out today for laptime and she just about fell asleep on me. The only thing that I really did to get them used to me was talking to them a lot. I've only had my newbie, Olive, for 2 weeks. She's already beginning to wheek for attention. (That and climbing all over the place! I caught her on top of her pigloo today! lol) Once they've been with you a while, they should come around. Some pigs are more "lovey" and cuddly than others, though, and I would keep that in mind. Good luck!

I'm like CavySlave above - I can't figure out how to post a question. Help!

Zigaboo said:

I'm like CavySlave above - I can't figure out how to post a question. Help!

Click to expand...

Go to the forum you want to post the question (example: food question would go in the nutrition section. Above the threads you will see a button "New Thread". Just click on that and start typing.