Where People & Piggies Thrive

Newbie or Guinea Guru? Popcorn in!

Register for free to enjoy the full benefits.
Find out more about the NEW, drastically improved site and forum!

Register

Yippie!

  • Thread starter TheAlmightyMiko
  • Start date

TheAlmightyMiko

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Posts
201
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
201
Well, I just heard today that some of my local MPP's (Members of Provincial Parliament) are trying to pass legislation that would give high school students the right to refuse dissection on the basis of moral or religious grounds without any sort of academic penalty. Currently, the right to refuse dissection is not protected in any way, and trying to get out of the exercise without losing a large chunk of your mark is an uphill battle (believe me, I fought it--and won!).
I just thought it was great that those who object to dissection at the public school level may no longer have to be "bullied" into doing so out of fear of their teachers or parents, as this right to choose will now finally be protected by law, and so they won't have to go through what I did just to do what they feel is right.

NB-not trying to start another debate on dissection whatsoever. If you want my opinion on it, please see the dissection thread in the kitchen. I just wanted to share the good news with everyone as I'm sure one thing we can agree upon is that it a student at the high school level should have the right to choose and/or to refuse dissection based upon their own beliefs, values, etc. After all, what purpose do our rights and liberties serve if we are not permitted to exercise them?
 

Slap Maxwell

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Posts
4,880
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
4,880
That is great! Fortunetilly, I don't have to dissect anything at all in High School. (Anatomy dissects cats!) I am proud that you won your battle.
 

guineagurl

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Posts
587
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
587
I can't believe a kid would be forced to cut up a animal......I'm glad I don't live there because I'd have refused and got in trouble by the sounds of it.

I wonder how many Geoffery Dhalmer's (sp?) wer'e created after having their interest peaked in slice & dice em' class? Gross Gross Gross!!
 

candi

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Posts
231
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
231
That's good! We weren't allowed to do it when I was school, the teacher did it and we had to watch.
 

Sabriel

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Posts
2,435
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
2,435
That's still going to be an uphill battle since many other politicains see it as a waste of time since there is a weak rule that stated that students have alternatives. It just doesn't give enough protection.

Best of luck.
 

TheAlmightyMiko

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Posts
201
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
201
Yeah, I realize that it's not going to be the easiest piece of legislation to have passed, but the fact that there are politicians even trying to introduce it gives me hope that there may be turnaround in the next little while. I just feel bad for all those kids who still have to fight the way I did to protect their values and their grades from an unfair policy (in my eyes, forcing dissection is a horrible rule, especially when a senior science credit is one of the requisite credits for graduation). I hope in the future legislation like this will allow these people to be protected (fingers crossed!).
 

PumpkinPunk

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Posts
109
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
109
guineagurl said:
I wonder how many Geoffery Dhalmer's (sp?) wer'e created after having their interest peaked in slice & dice em' class? Gross Gross Gross!!
Geoffery Dhalmer has a psychological illness that I'm sure would not be caused or triggered by dissecting an animal for scientific purposes. Psychological illnesses are very serious and should not be treated lightely. I'm not saying this in an "attacking" sort of way to you as I'm sure you mean no harm in your comment.

On the note of this thread, that is great news! I never enjoyed dissecting anything (frogs, fish, rats) and luckily I was always paired with a partner who didn't mind it so I didn't face any acedemic penalty.
 

marci

Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Posts
18
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
18
Geoffery Dhalmer has a psychological illness that I'm sure would not be caused or triggered by dissecting an animal for scientific purposes. Psychological illnesses are very serious and should not be treated lightely. I'm not saying this in an "attacking" sort of way to you as I'm sure you mean no harm in your comment.
Yes -- there is already a very cruel stigma against mental illness, so we must be careful to ensure that we don't contribute to it.
 

LuvMyPiggers

Well-known Member
Cavy Gazer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
964
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
964
TheAlmightyMiko said:
Well, I just heard today that some of my local MPP's (Members of Provincial Parliament) are trying to pass legislation that would give high school students the right to refuse dissection on the basis of moral or religious grounds without any sort of academic penalty. Currently, the right to refuse dissection is not protected in any way, and trying to get out of the exercise without losing a large chunk of your mark is an uphill battle (believe me, I fought it--and won!).
I just thought it was great that those who object to dissection at the public school level may no longer have to be "bullied" into doing so out of fear of their teachers or parents, as this right to choose will now finally be protected by law, and so they won't have to go through what I did just to do what they feel is right.

NB-not trying to start another debate on dissection whatsoever. If you want my opinion on it, please see the dissection thread in the kitchen. I just wanted to share the good news with everyone as I'm sure one thing we can agree upon is that it a student at the high school level should have the right to choose and/or to refuse dissection based upon their own beliefs, values, etc. After all, what purpose do our rights and liberties serve if we are not permitted to exercise them?
I wish my college allowed thta. One proffesor (Sp?) i had was going to have us dissect A CAT! I told him my reasons and rufused to disect it. I failed the assignment for not taking part but I got a B+ in the class anyway! I felt good that I refused.
 

TheAlmightyMiko

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Posts
201
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
201
Good for you! I'm glad you stuck to your guns. For me, the cat dissection was at the high school level, which I found completely inappropriate. I do understand that there is some necessity behind dissection at the college/veteranary school/medical school level, but again this is the choice of the individual; I was not given this choice, but I'm glad that some students may in the future as the cat dissection is quite common practice accross my (old) school district.
 

stipma

Cavy Calm
Cavy Gazer
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Posts
344
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
344
I can remember feeling nauseous thinking that we were going to have to dissect a frog and then the bio teacher put a pig in front of us. I failed that course.
 

Slap Maxwell

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Posts
4,880
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
4,880
The only thing I saw dissected was an eel. I wouldn't cut it, though. I was in 6th grade.
 

guineagurl

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Posts
587
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
587
I wasn't having a go at anyone with mental illness.
I allways get in the dog house so I'll shut up now.
If a serial killer ever say's they wanted to kill from learning how to cut frog's up in biology class, I won't shut up any more! :)
 

Sabriel

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Posts
2,435
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
2,435
You need a senior science credit to graduate now? When I was in high school we only needed grade 10 science. Heck the only thing you *needed* after grade 10 was English (and religion at my school) to graduate.

So you people need to do more in less time? What if you don't want to be a scientist? What if you want to be an English Major or a Business Major? Where's the time for computers, art and buisness classes?

My husband and I wonder, what exactly is mandatory now? (In Ontario)
 

TheAlmightyMiko

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Posts
201
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
201
What year did you graduate, Sabriel? They have really changed the curriculum a LOT; I was the very first year of the "double cohort", so I graduated in grade 12 with the last OAC class;and yes, my programme was very accelerated; our grade 9 work was at the level of the old grade 10 curriculum, etc. And I receievd 0 preperation in earlier grades because we were used as test subjects; sometimes we wouldn't even recieve text books until half way through the semester because the gov't hadn't "decided' which ones to use. The teachers didn';t even recieve a copy of the curriculum until the August before the school year started as NOTHING had been prepared in advance.

The wonderful (sarcasm) Harris government, in their *infinite* wisdom did decide that arts and music were really just a side to the "necessities" of the maths and sciences, and so the main emphasis in high school is now on math, science, and technology. I'm sure you recall when they tried to do away with arts programmes at schools and made the claim that anyone with a BA degree is in essence useless because they have not focused themselves on the necessary subjects; to succeed in their eyes you basically had to have a B.Sc, B.Comm, etc. etc. Which is ridiculous because the majority of high school teachers hold BA's! At any rate, a student has a 12-credit "optional" window to take these humanities courses if they so desire, so the Harris gov't felt justified, I suppose. (so sorry, I hold a deep resentment for that stain in our province's history because i directly felt the effects of his disasterous health care and education reforms; If you feel differently I'm sorry; not trying to start a political debate because I would loose....=)

Now, the division of credits is 18 manditory combine(d with 12 "elective" credits. You of course need 4 english credits, and then for the remaining 12 they divide it up as such:
Four (4) English/Français - one credit per grade
One (1) French as a second language/English/Anglais
Three (3) Mathematics - at least one in Grade 11 or 12
Two (2) Science
One (1) Canadian History
One (1) Canadian Geography
One (1) Arts (Visual, Music, Drama)
One (1) Health and Physical Education
One (1) Civics and Career Studies
One (1) of English/Français, or a third language or Social Science, or Canadian and World Studies
One (1) of Health and Physical Education or Business Studies or the Arts (Music, Art, Drama)
One (1) of Grade 11 or 12 Science or Grade 9 - 12 Technology
Twelve elective credits selected from available course;
40 hours community involvement; and successful completion of Grade 10 Literacy Test.
All students entering grade 9 in 1999-2000, or in subsequent years, must successfully complete the Grade 10 Literacy Test in order to earn an OSSD.
• The test will be based on the Ontario curriculum expectations for language and communication (particularly reading and writing) up to and including Grade 9.
• The test will identify those students who have not demonstrated the required skills and will identify areas in which these students need remediation.
• This test is a diploma requirement which must be written successfully before an OSSD can be issued.

At my school, the problem with the choice between one grade 11 or 12 science credit or one technology was that the only "tech" courses offered were auto or metal shop, and they were all limited enrollment because the shop rooms were very small (there were permitted 20 students per class, first come first serve type of arrangement), and those who had taken any tech courses in previous years were given preference in senior grades. However, I am not "technically" inclined whatsoever, so science was my only viable option. I chose biology based on the teacher's assurance that I would not have to dissect; however, she renegged on this decision when she found out I was actually serious about it. The difference was that I had the highest grade in the class (93% going into the dissection), and had never missed a test or assignment, so the principal decided that she had no basis to refuse my request and force me to do an exercise I morally objected to (I acutally broke down at the sight of the cats sealed in the plastic formeldahyde filled bags), and so he gave me full credit for the assignment.
 
Last edited:

stipma

Cavy Calm
Cavy Gazer
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Posts
344
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
344
When I was in high school *a loooong time ago* we only needed science up to grade 10. Unfortunately, at our school it was biology and that included dissecting.
 

Sabriel

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Posts
2,435
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
2,435
I graduated the year before you in 2002. I was one of the last kids to recieve a pre-Harris education. My year had the most schooling of any year as we were the first to have JK and the last to have OAC.

Here's what I needed to pass:

5 English/français (at least 2 Senior Division)
1 French/anglais
2 Mathematics
2 Science
1 Canadian history
1 Canadian geography
1 Arts
1 Physical and health education
1 Business/technological studies
1 additional credit in social science (Senior Division)

No Literacy Test, though some people in our year did a mock one to test it for the next year. (My husband had to take it. He said no one, including the teachers, took it seriously since it didn't count for anything. He says tey could have actually be learning something. Instead they took a test that he said really didn't test how literate you were. ) We also didn't have those mandatory after school tutoring sessions that cost the parents/student money (free education, eh?). You failed, you either tried again next year or went to summer school.

In some schools you could take a second language other then French. In my school it was Italian. Religion was a "requisite" at my school but it counted as your senior social science credit.

Our Grade 10 science class had dissection though. We dissected a grasshopper and a pigs heart (but the pigs heart didn't count. It was just "for fun". When we did that one most people would hack and slash it "for fun" as did my partner. My teacher took the knife away from him and told him that I will do the dissection as he may learn something that way. Not fun :( )

I was a four year honour student in the old curriculum. I would not be under the new one. Why? Math. I was ok at 9 & 10 math. But 11 would kill me. I went to summer school for 11 and almost failed it. Luckliy they take you 8 best credits each year for your average and drop the lowest extra credit. Some very bright people can't do math. I rock at English and skipped Grade 12 art (Very hard to do by the way. Ususally you need 60% in 12 to get into OAC) I excelled at a relgion course that wasn't about my relgion (long story) I got higher marks than people who have known the course material all of thier lives.

But as a 16 year old who lived on her own in high school I suffered a fate far worse than yours. I had to live on our joke of a welfare system by no fault of my own. I wasn't lazy or stupid. I just wanted to finish high school so I didn't have to work for minimum wage for the rest of my life. But I guess that was asking to much in his eyes, eh?
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.
Top