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View Full Version : Sick Pig is bleeding AGAIN.. Off to vet AGAIN



Gracespigs
05-22-10, 12:32 pm
Well, after taking our 2 new 4 month old Guinea Pigs to our local Exotic Pet Vet 4 seperate times now, I had to take matters in a more expensive matter. So far we have had the pigs 1 month tommorrow and we are 1,000 dollars into them. They both came to us with a URI after 3 days of having them and were treated with Bactrim for 14 days. One Guinea Pig stopped sneezing, the other still is.. Then the one Guinea pig started bleeding from her Vagina. We took her to the vet 4 times and she never did a UA nor an xray on her and gave her Baytril for 10 days, she has 3 days left.. Since then we have switched bedding from Carefresh to Fleece, but my fleece was smelling so bad, after 2 days, I had to do a complete bed change and wash.

Now last night at 10 PM, our other Guinea Pig, Lady, started to bleed a jelly like blood clot on her fleece. I called an Exotic Vet Emergency Center and chose to run her in and hour away. Our vet has told us everything wrong, like Baytril did not come in Liquid form and she was having us crush meds into applesauce, (also not good for them). That they didn't need an UA, xray to confirm what she was doing. They didn't need extra vitamin C, probiotics and that I could give them Kaytee pellets and Timothy hay.. She also had us restrict her veggie intake.. Everything that we should not be doing.. So, I opted to spend more money and get the real answers, as I have read on here and learned what they should be doing nutrition/care wise.

We got to the animal ER after midnight after an hour car ride. The Dr. there knows this website here and was absolutely wonderful, very knowledgeable. He gave her a UA and an xray and it turned out she forsure has an UTI, actually a quite severe one, most likely from the pet store we got them from. Which pretty much confirms our other pig has the same thing, which she is already on Batryl, but mixed incorrectly with applesauce. He found that Lady has Cocci bacterium in her urine, so he prescribed her with Batryl as well in liquid form.. My vet down at my homebase, said there was no such thing! And she is an exotic pet vet! (Not mine any longer) ;) Anyways, he also gave me extra Baytril in liquid form so I could get my other pig on the med without giving her applesauce that could harm them.. So nice of him! Then he prescribed an anti inflammatory for Lady for 5 days to help with any inflammation that she may have. He gave me critical care to give to the 2 times a day, (they are eating), just to give them a boost, probiotics, Oxbow Vitamin C and we are gonna gradually switch them into Oxbow Performance pellets until they are 6 months and we have Oxbow timothy hay as well.

I was wondering has anyone ever heard of Cocci bacteria in urine? I cannot find much about it online, other than cats get it often. I think it is a gram negative infection, but that is all I know. I was wondering if anyone can tell me if this is harmful to us humans or my other pets. I am using universal precautions when caring for them and limiting my toddler from touching them for a few days just to be safe. Is this a very serious or common bacteria?

I am also wondering if I should still give them vegies if they are on critical care and starting vitamin C, eating new pellets and hay..? I am concerned about adding anymore at them at once. He said they could eat some bell peppers because they eat that now. They have not been on any other vegie because our local vet here told us not to introduce new vegies to them while on the meds in case of diarrhea. This ER vet said they could have the peppers, he would like to see them introduced better when they are more stable. But he also said there was alot being introduced and since we were giving them critical care 2-4 times a day, that should cover them not having veggies for a few days. So, I am not sure I should give them to them or not. We started the critical care and new pellets and hay already and supplimented the Vitamin C into their critical care because our pigs would not touch them. Should I give the peppers while on critical care or they fine without right now?

Has anyone else had an UTI with Cocci bateria and how serious is this? If one guinea pig is done with her meds in 3 days and the other just started, can they reinfect one another? Is it safe to wash their fleece bedding in my washer if I run a bleach cycle after it with this bacteria? I think this infection may be the culpret for our smelly fleece now.. BUT, if I did not have switched to fleece bedding, I may not have found my other pig bleeding! When Pigs have an UTI do they need to be rechecked after so many days?

Well, we didn't get home till 6 this morning and another 300.00 dollars, but it was well worth knowing FINALLY what it actually is.. I guess I can assume that the infection is the same kind with the other pig.. I am glad he was on the right med, just the wrong way to administer. To say the least, I am glad we got the answers and I am just worried about if I am missing anything. Is there anything else I can do to support them? Mostly, I would like to know what Cocci bacteria is more and how bad does this sound?

Silverbeat
05-22-10, 01:59 pm
I can't answer all of your questions, but Id first like to say THANK YOU on behalf of your guinea pigs. You are being a wonderful caretaker to them and I'm sure that they are eternally grateful.
As for giving them veggies, how much have you been giving them? Fresh foods are always better, so you should really only be giving Critical Care as a supplement or a booster. I'm not sure how necessary it is for pigs who are eating fine, but you definitely don't want to deny them something that is a big part of their natural diet. Give them mostly "every-day" greens like cilantro and lettuces. Fresh greens are where guinea pigs get most of their water intake from.
Once your pigs are over their UTI, you can give them diluted cranberry juice in one of their water bottles. Use only 100% PURE cranberry juice. Not a cocktail and no sugar added. Cranberry juice helps to prevent form future UTIs. Make sure to change the bottle at least once daily. An alternative to this is administering the cranberry juice via oral syringe but it is quite a hassle compared to the water bottle method.
http://www.guinealynx.info/uti.html

I don't know about Cocci bacteria. It rings a bell but I can't remember anything other than the darn name.

CavyMama
05-22-10, 04:38 pm
Wow, what a harrowing experience! Thank you for being willing to spend the extra money and drive that distance to get the proper care for your pigs.

I wonder why your local vet thought there was no such thing as liquid Baytril. I would bring it and show her, so she doesn't make the same mistake with someone else.

Silverbeat
05-22-10, 04:53 pm
I wonder why your local vet thought there was no such thing as liquid Baytril. I would bring it and show her, so she doesn't make the same mistake with someone else.

CavyMama, I suspect the vet was not entirely cavy-savvy.
There are a lot of vets who have really good intentions, but their knowledge is outdated and some of it [like giving guinea pigs/rabbits things like applesauce, undiluted pineapple juice, and even yogurt when they are ill] does far more harm than good.
It is strange that she didn't know about liquid Baytril though because Baytril is used for cats and dogs as well as cavies.

And I agree with bringing this to her attention, and urging her to "modernize" her knowledge of exotic veterinary medicine, if you know what I mean.

Paula
05-22-10, 05:19 pm
Cocci bacteria is fairly common, and it's one of three types - staphylococci, streptococci or diplococci. It's a pretty run of the mill infection within the bladder.

In fairness to your first vet, Batyril is the "big gun" antibiotic and is quite likely to treat just about any infection. She might have been trying to spare you the expense of a UA. And there are some vets that can't get Baytril in liquid suspension for a couple different reasons. She might just not be able to get it in her office. Also, putting it in applesauce isn't ideal, but it's pretty far from the worst piece of advice I've seen given out by some vets. I would recommend letting her know that you were able to get the liquid suspension Baytril and that it's not advisable to mix the tablets in applesauce, so she knows in the future.

As for whether or not the pigs are giving the UTI back and forth to each other, it's possible, though not terribly likely if they are kept in clean cages. The biggest concern with UTIs and reinfection is pigs picking it up from their bedding since they are so close to the ground and their bedding. It sounds like you are doing a great job of cleaning up often, so it shouldn't be a problem.

There's no reason your toddler can't handle the pigs, though of course don't let him/her handle the bedding and I don't think it's likely s/he'll end up getting sick.

And a quick note on cranberry juice - I recently had a discussion with my vet on this. There's no harm in giving it in small quantities (100% pure cranberry juice), but there's no real benefit either, because the quantity that would have to be consumed for there to be any benefit is fairly massive and would be nearly impossible for them to ingest, not to mention, you wouldn't want to give them that much because of the high sugar content in cranberry juice. Water intake is very important with UTIs, so don't stop feeding veggies and instead feed with lots of water on them to help increase water consumption.

CavyMama
05-22-10, 05:20 pm
[like giving guinea pigs/rabbits things like applesauce, undiluted pineapple juice, and even yogurt when they are ill] does far more harm than good.

Funny you mention, my supposedly cavy savvy vet did suggest that I use yogurt "because it tastes better" than the med. Knowing that yogurt isn't good for cavies, I politely declined the yogurt mentioning that cavies are lactose intolerant.

Cogni
05-22-10, 05:34 pm
Grace, I am so glad you found out how to treat them! May your piggies have a long and healthy life now that they have a better vet!

Silverbeat
05-22-10, 06:19 pm
And a quick note on cranberry juice - I recently had a discussion with my vet on this. There's no harm in giving it in small quantities (100% pure cranberry juice), but there's no real benefit either, because the quantity that would have to be consumed for there to be any benefit is fairly massive and would be nearly impossible for them to ingest, not to mention, you wouldn't want to give them that much because of the high sugar content in cranberry juice. Water intake is very important with UTIs, so don't stop feeding veggies and instead feed with lots of water on them to help increase water consumption.

Thank you, Paula, that's good to know. I have quite a large herd and I give them diluted cranberry juice in one of their water bottles and swap it daily. After they finish the jug of cranberry juice in my fridge though, I don't think I'll be bothering with the juice.

Gracespigs
05-22-10, 06:27 pm
Thanks everyone for your awesome advice and comments! Soooo appreciated! My local vet is an Exotic Vet, but wow she has a whole different way of thinking. I just wish I would of brought them both to that emergency center before her or after I realized I did not agree with her decisions on things. Only took me a week, but alot of money. If I would of brought them to this place after the first visit, I would of probably spent half the money.. Because I have a medical background and am handicapped with Lupus and have a very poor prognosis, I always like to know for sure what is wrong and what is going on exactly, so things can be treated properly. Plus I catch everything, so it is scary even when my pets get sick, as I have a poor prognosis and am younger.

I am gonna wash my fleece every two days for a while till they get better so I can assure they are not reinfecting themselves. I am anal anyways about scooping up poops, I do it about 4 times a day, lol, because I am very ill and home everyday of my life, so it gives me something to do..... So, I guess this is a good thing for them, lol.. We made them a fleece, toweled litter box in their kitchen area and they seem to be using it alot! Thankfully, must of the poops and pees are over there. I did notice that our lilac colored fleece is staining kinda milky colored.. It seems to be wicking through but leaving like a stain behind, which I do not notice on our other color and pattern. Does certain fleece colors leave more stains than others?

I will be switching vets. I did talk to her today to tell her what happened and she was pretty offended that I suggested this and that to her about the meds. She still was strong about there being no liquid Bactryl... She insists there is no such thing and that applesauce if safe, she went on to suggest yorgurt as well and to stop their vegies right now. I called Emergency center back, (they are open 24 hours! whoot whoot), and they said nope, nope, and nope. LOL.. So I gave them their vegies. They ate less than they normally do, but now they are getting Critical Care 2-4 times a day, so maybe they are more full? But they ate 1/4-1/2 of what they normally do and they are eating lots of their hay, so far so good.

I hope they feel better soon and I appreciate the info on the Cocci bacteria.. THANK YOU!!!! I love this website, so informative and you are all helping me be the best Mama to my daughter's pigs that I can be! THANKS A BUNCH!

Gracespigs
05-27-10, 11:57 pm
Lady is still on her Baytril, but Daddy has just finished.. One HUGE difference I noticed since I have gotten them onto Oxbow hay/pellets/vitamins c, and Critical Care is that their fur is way softer and they look so much healthier since the switch! It has been only maybe 6 days, but the difference is HUGE. Lady has 4 more days of her antibiotic. The fleece has not smelled since the switch of food and on their meds..;) I have not noticed any blood or anything in their fleece, towels or underpad, THANK GOD! Only had to go to 2 Exotic vets and 1,000 dollars later to finally get them better, but I do not regret anything I did for them. Just wish I would have found a better Exotic Vet the first time! I wanted to thank everyone here for all the advice you have given me to help our babies. Truly, it has been a lot to do with this site and all the wonderful people here who truly made the difference in the cage for them, all the advice about their diets, bedding and everything! They look so happy and so much healthier. I cannot thank you all enough for helping me learn the best care for them. It has been a lot to learn since we got them on April 23rd, we have helped them through the URI they had when we got them and the UTI's seem to be clearing up too... I am just so greatful to all of you who have helped me and have continued to help me with them. I will have my hubby help me get my pics of them up this weekend downloaded from the camera so you all can see them!

Thank you all again soooo much! Oh, btw, should I always keep them on the Oxbow Vitamin C or just while they are sick? We are wheening them into vegies so I am not sure if they will still need the supplement once they are well?? AGAIN, thank all of you lovely, kind, and compassionate/helpful people out there. You have helped my pigs tremendously and we are all greatful!

foggycreekcavy
05-28-10, 03:00 pm
Is there another thread about these pigs? It's always easier for me to help out if all the information is kept on the same thread.

Ly&Pigs
05-28-10, 03:40 pm
Your threads have been merged. Please keep any further updates in this thread. Thank you.

We ask that people only make one thread per problem and to update as necessary instead of creating more threads. This way no one has to go digging around to find the original thread.

Glad they are doing better.

Gracespigs
06-16-10, 03:49 pm
Our piggies are about 5 months old. We have had them since April. They had URI's a few days after we got them and they were treated with Bactrim for 10 days.. A few days later, I noticed one of the pigs was bleeding from the vaginal area. I rushed her an hour away to an Exotic emergency center. They did an x ray and and UA. Her UA showed the Cocci bacteria and she was treated with Baytrl for 10 days. Our other pig, did not get over his URI the first time around so he was on Baytrl for 10 days when the other one started to bleed vaginally. So their Baytrl was staggered on the days of coverage for them about 3 weeks ago. Lady just started her Batryl when the other piggie only 3 days left on her Batryl, if that makes sense. We have thus far taken them to 2 different vets and are $1,000 dollars into their care.

Just when I thought the nightmare had ended, I just found blood on the fleece again. I check their vaginal areas everyday when we have them out and noticed nothing for weeks on fleece or them. Now, upon inspection, I found Daddy, (whom is female, toddler named her, lol), has dried blood on her vaginal area again. I tried to get her into our local vet, whom treated their URI's the first time, she is on vacation. There is no local cavy savy vets around my area. We called the emergency center up in Milwaukee where we took them before who treated Lady's UTI last time and the Cavy Savy vet will not be in till tommorrow.. They did advice me though to give them both Batryl that I had in the fridge left over for 2-3 weeks ago at the same dosage until tommorrow when they could be seen, so I have.

But, in the meantime, I am trying to search northern Illinois and surrounding areas to find another Cavy Savy vet. (hard to find!) I can take them tommorrow to the vet in Milwaukee, but not till nightime shift and I wanted to get them somewhere tommorrow morning.. Does anyone have any recommendations for a Cavy Savy vet in Northern Illinois or Southern Wi? I was gonna get them UA's again to confirm my suspisions.. but I have called every vet in my area and they say they do not have the equipment to do a UA on a guinea pig and they "see" guinea pigs but do not specialize in it..

My theory in what is possibly happening is possibly Lady gave Daddy the bladder maybe because they both were on Batryl on different days.. Lady started hers when Daddy was just finishing up the meds and maybe she infected him with it and I am sure they both have it again.. Although Lady is not showing any signs of it, but I am going to make sure anyways. I called one clinic and was told by a lady that they were a cavy savy vet and I wanted them to call me to make sure they had there what we needed before we made a long treck.. She assured me the vet was Cavy Savy and an Exotic vet, now someone else called me from that office to talk to me about the situation and set up a time to come, possibly even tonight as they were open till 7.. I re asked her everything again, because it was a different person I talked to an hour ago and she tells me the Dr. is NOT an Exotic pet vet but he does see guinea pigs! GRRRRR... I could of got in there tonight, but not sure, because I do not know them, and I HATE being lied too! They had pretty good reviews online, but not all of them, 2 of them stated they lied about pricing and other stuff.. makes me not too jazzed to go there.. Trying to find them a vet tonight, not looking so good or early tommorrow either.. Tommorrow night, the vet will be back on in Milwaukee ER but not until night shift.

Sorry this is so long, can anyone refer me to a Cavy Savy vet in Northern Illinois or Southern Wi? At least maybe I could get them in first thing tommorrow morning. I just do not understand why this keeps happening to them.. I am doing everything right, fleece, clean it 2-4 times a day, unlimited hay, Oxbow hay and Oxbow Performance Pellets, feed them a cup a day of different lettuce, 1 cherry tomatoes, cilantro, bell peppers each a day, (still introducing vegies), floortime, lap time, nice C & C cage which we are expanding even more... I am wondering, I have noticed them peeing in their hay, I wash 2 times a day, I wonder if this did it? Maybe one of them was not over it and gave it to the other.. So frustrating. I have spent so much on trying to help them, could this be something else? I think I was told they are too young for stones.. I am not too sure what bladder sludge is yet, only read a bit about it so far.. I am sure it could be the UA again.. Maybe something reproductive wrong? I am so upset about this again.. So sad. I have only had them since April 23rd, I just wish I could get them healthy.. I have been several times to vets.. If anyone has any suggestions on vets. We are about 20 minutes north of Great America in Gurnee, Ill if that helps at all. Then maybe I could call them first thing tommorrow, if all else fails, I can head to Milwaukee tommorrow night.. Thanks! HELP!!

Gracespigs
06-16-10, 05:24 pm
Also, has anyone else had problems clearing up a UTI? How long were your pigs on treatment and what kind? I started to crush and sprinkle vitamin C on their vegies, is this ok?

Paula
06-16-10, 05:47 pm
I can't make any suggestion on which vet to go to in your area, but I would recommend an xray on both pigs and if that shows no stones, culture the urine to make sure you get an antibiotic that will treat the infection. Repeatedly giving an antibiotic can lead to intolerance, so I'd talk to a vet before starting them on an antibiotic again.

Gracespigs
06-16-10, 07:35 pm
The last time I took Lady in, the vet did an x ray, but he said they were too young for stones. I think someone told me here that too.. Can't remember who though.. Would have to re read. Not that I will not x ray again, but I think I will go the UA route first. There is like no cavy savy vets around me, it is crazy.. I see there is one in the Chicago area, but I think it is an emergency center which may be even more money than Milwaukee... I am so frustrated trying to find an exotic pet vet that is non emergency, where I can use all the time.. I am worried about them, does anyone ever have to treat their pigs for more than 10 days for UTI's?

Paula
06-16-10, 07:43 pm
Unfortunately there really isn't a "too young" for stones. It's true that the younger the pig, the less the likelihood of stones, but I had a pig diagnosed at just six months old, so it's definitely not impossible.

I would definitely do a culture.

Gracespigs
06-16-10, 09:40 pm
A culture? What does that test for? That is sad about your young pig.. I could see how it could happen, in my opinion, but sad though. What is the treatment for bladder stones? I am going to call my mom's bird vet, he does exotic, he is over an hour a way.. His website says Small mammels, birds, reptiles, bunnies, so he must do pigs.. (Crosses fingers) He is a family friend to my parents I forgot all about him.. I imagine doing these animals he would be Cavy Savy.. I hope!

Gracespigs
06-21-10, 07:11 pm
Update on pigs... So we went to a new Cavy Savy vet that showed some As I stated earlier, one of the pigs was bleeding and I felt the pigs were possibly cross contaminated one another with the UTI? Lady was found to have the Cocci bacteria in her urine a few weeks ago, now Daddy, (female, despite the name), was showing the same symptoms. I forgot about a vet I used to take my dog too who has 2 Cavy Savy vets on hand. We waited for the Savy Cavy vet a few days, as we were treating Daddy, per ER advice were we had taken Lady 2-3 weeks prior the same med, Batryl, until we got into this vet. They both look healthy and have not had any signs since that day.

Finally, getting to the Cavy Savy vet, he was suppossed to charge us $40.00 for each pig to be seen, $41.00 per each UA and med costs.. I wrote up a bio on exact dates we have had to take them vets, what happened, what was found, what treatment was, how our cage was, size, bedding, what we fed them, vitamins, etc. I told him I learned everything from this website, although he had not heard of it, I thought I was treating our pigs so humane, more than he had saw before, that he decided to help us and he wanted to know the website here so he could join, lol.. He was impressed on their care and that I was willing, although faced with medical problems with myself and our daughter to put the $1,000 in so far on our pigs health and researched so much, that he was gonna help us.. (well on my credit card anyways, lol) I told him everything I learned has been here, he was quite impressed with this site!

Anyways, he decided to offer to do free ultrasounds on each pig for us, where the vets wanted $150.00-$180.00 per pig to ultrasound just to rule out stones. He said it takes only a few minutes and he did not see the sense in charging us so much for that, so he offered it free of charge to both of them!! No stones as I suspected. He did not really see any reproductive problems either. He attempted to do the UA's but they must have peed in their kennel on the towel on the way in, (an hour drive), when he tried to get urine, he only got a few drops, not enough to run.

He weighed them and Daddy, (female, despite name), weighed 1.5 pounds, Lady weighed, 1.3 pounds. They were very active, no mites, teeth and toenails good, coats good, eyes, nose good, that he decided to research more before he decided to put them on meds. He think it could be the cocci bacteria that spread but he was not sure about cross contamination, so he was going to call a Chicago based clinic who sees Guinea pigs regularily to make sure he making right decisions on assuming it could of spread from one pig to another. He said he would be calling us today or tommorrow depending how long his research too him. I am pretty sure it can be spread from one pig to another, but he wanted to be 100 percent sure in his decision making, also because they had both been on bactrium (sp) and Batryl already, he was worried about resisitance. We brought him also the good/bad antibiotic list with us, so we could make sure he gave us the right meds if needed.

So, we are awaiting response, pigs seem healthy, but we definately got something going on, sadly he could not get UA from either. He also was gonna research what else bleeding could come from besides possibly these things. I am sure the UA would have shown Cocci bacteria, but cannot guarentee. He really wants to put some thought into it because of everything that has happened. He said he may be perscribing meds tommorrow, so he will call us. Anyone know if pigs can spread UTI's to one another.. I thought maybe because they were peeing on their hay before I changed the system again? Anyone have this problem? Maybe they both have to be treated at the same time to stop this?

Anyways, we have a tornado watch, so I need to get off of here soon! He ended up charging us $34.00!!!! TOTAL!!! No UA fee because he could not get a speciman, he charged us a recheck fee even though we were new with the pigs before and nothing, NOTHING for the ultrasound, he felt he should help us because we cared so much and he didn't ever understand why vets charged so much for pigs.. He is awesome! I am shocked!! Found a keeper for us.. Hopefully we will get this taken care of soon!

Sirene
06-21-10, 07:16 pm
It sounds like you found an awesome vet! I really hope you get some answers soon. I've been following this and you've been working so hard to get good care for your pigs - it's about time you got a break!

fresian.m
06-21-10, 07:20 pm
Wow you're so devoted to your piggies! I hope all works out well with this vet.

lissie
06-21-10, 07:54 pm
You're a wonderful piggy mom. I'm glad you've found a great vet.

Gracespigs
06-21-10, 08:23 pm
Thank you everyone!!!

GuineaLove
06-21-10, 08:24 pm
Your piggies are so lucky to have you. I wish everyone felt the same way about their guinea pigs as you do. I am glad you found a super vet also. I wish there were more vets like him. I hope your babies get well soon.

Gracespigs
06-21-10, 09:03 pm
I have always loved my animals.. I am just thankful this site has taught me so much about Guinea Pigs! This has helped me sooooo much!

Gracespigs
06-21-10, 11:55 pm
No call tonight, hopefully we will hear from the vet tommorrow! Thanks everyone for your support! Helps tremondously!

Does anyone know for sure if guinea pigs can cross contaminate one another with UTI's for sure?

Gracespigs
07-16-10, 06:15 pm
Well, my hubby called me into look at the pigs and he showed me a VERY creamy white/beige goop on top and around their poops. Also there was a little white on some of the poops.. I have already set an appointment up with a vet and we were going to Ultrasound, do UA's again and culture to make sure the UTI's from before have cleared finally and hopefully.. I am not sure which one has left this spot in the cage, but both are going to be checked with all the same tests. I have noticed and mentioned before there were white spots in the cage, but they were ones that were wicking through the fleece and powdery. I learned about excess calcium being expelled from here. I put them on lower calcium veggies, but there are always spots, but nothing like the 2 spots we found currently. I woke my hubby up at 2 in the morning to check on the other one last night. When you looked in the cage, it looked like a piece of shaved chalk laying there.. (Best description I can give)

My hubby stuck his finger in it thinking it looked dried, it did, but it never wicked though the fleece and actually looked hard. When he touched it, as his explanation stated it felt like butter, no grit, but it was so think and creamy. He did have some powder residue on his fingers/cream. We are worried about bladder sludge.. I do not know much about it.. I know that it is a precurser to bladder stones. I need help educating me before I take them in. I have been to many vets around me. There is only one I have found to be REALLY CAVY SAVY.... The ER one! He asked that I call him if I need help with other vets, he costs so much that he wants to help me/them if they need assistance as his overhead is terrible.. He told me to take them to another vet, get an ultrasound, UA, culture on both of them again. He said it would cost me another 700.00 for him to do both pigs for these services, so he told me what to tell them.

I called them today and talked to the vet we will be seeing and she did say one thing I did not like very much, nor know much about. She stated that she had to briefly put them under to ultrasound them so she can get a good look at them and take a clean sample of their urine without going into the wrong spot. I AM REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THIS... Do they have to do this, put them under? I know my ER vet did not do this and I have not called him back about this as he is off now. I would think that would be really dangerous or am I just uneducated? I do not know tons aboiut bladder sludge, but I want to be prepared as I can..

I feed the pigs Oxbow performance pellets because of their age, but we are about to switch them to Timothy based pellets from Oxbow, The Cavy Cuisine. They have unlimited Oxbow Hay. They eat red, green peppers, romaine lettuce, butterhead lettuce, cherry tomatoes (1 per pig), cilantro... Those are their daily staples 2 times a day = 1 cup per pig a day. We have tried baby carrots, cucumbers and 1 time a month some apple in a very small amount.. The carrots and cucumbers they will not touch. They have fresh water daily, but they together only drink about 1/4 of the bottle between the 2 of them... Is this normal? I do leave their veggies nice and wet for them for extra water. Am I feeding them the best lowest calcium veggies I can? I think I may get rid of romaine and use just butterhead, I have to check Ly's chart, but I THINK it is lower in calcium. Is there anything I can feed them or do to help with any potential sludge? Feed cranberries/blueberries? I read that somewhere on a different site, but never did it, not knowing if that is good or not? Should I syringe more water in to help with sludge? What test can confirm sludge? We will be doing the ultrasound, will this show it??? Why can't they towel wrap them to make them still during ultrasound and to get the clean urine sample, it is normal to put them under quickly? That SCARES me!

Educate me in my vet visist before I go in everyway you guys can help me.. I am going to bring the safe/bad list of antibiotics just in case.. Is there anything else I should know to bring or about? Hopefully we can rule out Stones, Sludge, cysts, Pyrometria, everything. All suggestions, advice, any knowledge welcome.. I need you guys to do what is best for my pigs and appreciate anything to teach me to be the best I can be and do the best for them I can do.. THANK YOU.. Sorry so long, I love our piggies..

Gracespigs
07-16-10, 08:51 pm
Can anyone help me with this? I am worried no one will see this before I go?

Paula
07-16-10, 09:06 pm
It is not at all uncommon to briefly anesthetize a guinea pig to ultrasound or xray. Some vets might be able to do the procedures without for some pigs, but it's not a red flag that a vet would want/need to.

I'd start feeding Kleenmama's pellets rather than Oxbow and switch to a timothy formula rather than alfalfa.

An experienced vet can feel sludge in the bladder on physical examination, but it most certainly shows up on an xray and will on an ultrasound as well.

Gracespigs
07-16-10, 09:16 pm
It is not at all uncommon to briefly anesthetize a guinea pig to ultrasound or xray. Some vets might be able to do the procedures without for some pigs, but it's not a red flag that a vet would want/need to.

I'd start feeding Kleenmama's pellets rather than Oxbow and switch to a timothy formula rather than alfalfa.

An experienced vet can feel sludge in the bladder on physical examination, but it most certainly shows up on an xray and will on an ultrasound as well.


Good to know about putting them under, shewwwww, I did not know about this, read on different google searches of people not liking this. Now, I know that is ok, thanks for educating me on this Paula!

I am making an account for them at KM's I am gonna just order the pellets, because I have a 50lb box of hay from Oxbow now.. I think I read the pellets are alot less calcium somewhere. Any suggestions is in size to get more bang for my buck? Shipping is alot, but if this will help them, I will have to do what is best for them for sure. Just want to see what size is best for the money.

Can anyone tell me more about sludge, I cannot find much about it.. Any other veggies that will help it? Can this pass, how do they treat it? Any other tests I need to consider? I am glad I am getting the tests that I need..

Thanks Paula!!!! Your always a BIG help to me in learning what is best for my piggies...

Paula
07-16-10, 09:22 pm
Sludge isn't as troubling as stones, but it can and will cause recurring UTIs. What my vet recommended for my sludge pig was only veggies VERY low in calcium, meaning zucchini, tomato, cucumber, bell pepper, etc., a teaspoon only of KMs pellets (timothy based) and a mix of orchard grass hay and oat hay.

Like I said sludge is going to be visible on xray or ultrasound, so you don't need a specific test for it. If there is a lot of sludge talk to them about the possibility of putting them under and running a catheter up to flush out the sludge to get a "clean slate." That procedure really helped with my pig Chompsky who had a massive amount of sludge buildup in his bladder at one point. Of course, the procedure was $400, so I'd definitely only consider it if the buildup is massive and not likely to pass on its own.

Fluid intake is a big part of managing bladder issues like stones and sludge, so you might also want to talk to your vet about the possibility of administering subcue injections daily or weekly or so to help increase it.

Gracespigs
07-16-10, 09:28 pm
Sludge isn't as troubling as stones, but it can and will cause recurring UTIs. What my vet recommended for my sludge pig was only veggies VERY low in calcium, meaning zucchini, tomato, cucumber, bell pepper, etc., a teaspoon only of KMs pellets (timothy based) and a mix of orchard grass hay and oat hay.

Like I said sludge is going to be visible on xray or ultrasound, so you don't need a specific test for it. If there is a lot of sludge talk to them about the possibility of putting them under and running a catheter up to flush out the sludge to get a "clean slate." That procedure really helped with my pig Chompsky who had a massive amount of sludge buildup in his bladder at one point. Of course, the procedure was $400, so I'd definitely only consider it if the buildup is massive and not likely to pass on its own.

Fluid intake is a big part of managing bladder issues like stones and sludge, so you might also want to talk to your vet about the possibility of administering subcue injections daily or weekly or so to help increase it.

Great! Thanks Paula, I can go in there now with some knowledge now and hope for the best.. ;) Thanks for being so helpful and sharing all your knowledge to help with our piggies.. Thanks for taking the time for us!