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mariaelise
08-24-09, 01:21 pm
I know almost every member here is against guinea pigs living outdoors. But me and my father have been looking at it from every angle, and we think it is the best choice. I have several reasons.

First of all, if they were to be kept inside, the cage would not be big enough for them. We don't have that much space in our house that we are willing to use for the guinea pigs.

Second, all of your arguments about why guinea pigs should not live outside are countered in our situation. Weather. The way the hutch is going to be insulated and positioned, rain won't get in, the time in the sun is minimal, and the nights will stay around 70 degrees, as will the days. I live in southern california, so the cold weather is minimal, and keeping the temp low enough for the piggies won't be a problem.

Also, the cage will be about 2 1/2 stories (2 stories, and then a 3rd story that wont cover the entire cage, but about half of it). Even if the pigs decide not to go up the ramps at all, they have a 16 sq. foot cage on the first floor alone. Adding up all the floors, if we have adventurous cavies, they will have 40 sq. ft. to roam in!

As for the issue about not getting enough attention. It is sort of hard to miss a 16 sq. foot cage that is 3 stories high. We have a clear glass door that goes into the backyard from the kitchen/living room area. If the guinea pigs as much as squeak, we will hear them.

Predators. First of all, we live in suburbia, so the wild animals are minimal. We don't see outdoor cats that much here, but we do occasionally get coyotes. The cage will be raised about 3 feet off the ground, and we will add padlocks to the wire mesh door. And it's not flimsy, its very solid. That is even if there are any coyotes, as I have personally never seen one in my 16 years of living in this house.

If you have any other arguments I missed, please tell me. Otherwise I think my future piggies will have a happier life outdoors then they could ever have indoors.

One last note. Unfortunately, I probably wont be able to adopt guinea pigs. We have a local adoption agency in our area (Orange County Cavy Haven (http://www.cavyhaven.org/)) but they are against outdoor living too. So I guess I will have to buy from a pet store. I wish this was not the case, but it is.:(

Paula
08-24-09, 01:47 pm
If you can't or aren't willing to devote the appropriate amount of space inside your home, why even have them? They're family pets and really shouldn't be forced to live in exile outside the family.

As for the temperatures/weather where you are, I recognize that this might be the norm for your area, but what about the days/nights that are unusually warm or cold? It happens in every area and you can't control or predict when the weather might be different than what you've grown accustomed to. Do you at least have a plan for when/if this happens?

The cage you describe would be outstanding if you were willing to give up the same amount of space inside your home. I don't understand why you'd be so willing to devote the time and energy to constructing something as awesome as this sounds and then park it in the back yard.

Regarding your plan to give attention through a sliding glass door. It's more than just physically seeing them. How often do you plan to interact with them? Check them for illnesses or other issues? Give them floor time? It sounds to me like you're planning to make them yard ornaments that move and make noise.

Regarding predators in your neighborhood/area, that you don't or haven't seen them doesn't mean that they aren't there. And if an animal were to get inside the cage, your pigs would have no means of escape. Why risk it?

The guinea pig rescue is against outdoor living for a multitude of very good reasons. And just so I'm clear, you're planning to go to a pet store and buy pigs that are likely already sick and stick them outside where you interact with them very little and can't come close to providing a stable steady temperature for them?

I'm sorry, but I really fail to understand why you feel the need to have them if that's the life you've got planned out for them. I suggest you get a squirrel feeder and watch the animals that come around instead of buying animals for your own enjoyment (while contributing to an already massive overpopulation problem) that you're going to dump outside and tend to their needs every so often. It just seems unnecessarily cruel and terribly unfair to me.

Peggysu
08-24-09, 01:59 pm
I don't think you should get guinea pigs if you are unwilling to include them in your family. They don't deserve to be put outside when they may get some attention once a day when you feel like going outside.

I live in California too. I used to live in southern California in "suburbia" and I saw plenty of Cayotees in our neighborhood and unfortunately many outdoor cats. The temperatures get hot and cold. If you live on the coast you get lots of fog which is not appropriate for guinea pigs to be in as when the sun goes down they are damp and cold, with no way of warming themselves until the sun comes up in the morning.

I think you should reconsider housing outside as it's not an appropriate place to house a domesticated pet.

My guinea pigs are inside and they get interaction throughout the day.

momof1kid3piggi
08-24-09, 02:09 pm
Ok. where to start? I think if you are not willing to bring the guinea pigs inside. then why do you have them/want them? They will more then likely be forgotten out there. Yes you say that you can see them. But would you really want to go outside and sit there for hours on end? because thats what we do inside, sit there and give them attention. I don't understand why you can't find the room. And bring the cage you took so much time to build inside.

i my self have lived in California for 10 years with my aunt. The temperature vary's from day day Like Peggysu said if your near the water. Fog is not good for their lungs.

Another thing, I'm sorry but this is how I feel, If you did any studying/lurking around this site. Wouldn't you have known not to post this kind of thread? So many people are against outside housing here.

princesspoppy
08-24-09, 02:41 pm
I feel really sad for you piggies. I live in ireland and the weather here is awful 365 days of the year. So i would never dream of keeping an animal outside. Your piggies need contact with you. Lap time,floor time and you interacting with them.

Even if you live in california,the weather can change without notice.The rescue has that policy for a reason and if ever piggie owner had your plans in mind,then none of the pigs would be rescued they would all be bought at pet stores.

If i had a choice between keeping them in a slightly smaller cage inside,rather than a huge cage outside,then i'd go with the indoor cage.

katiewilson
08-24-09, 02:48 pm
I wanted to post to concur with what others have said. If you aren't going to be able to provide a guinea pig with the best possible care, or really, even just acceptable care, then it'd really be in the best interest of the guinea pig to be housed elsewhere. I mean, you're even willing to add to the pet overpopulation problem by purchasing from a pet store instead of adopting. Yikes. Since it sounds like you haven't gotten one yet, just please consider the guinea pigs and their happiness before making any potentially selfish decisions that would be a detriment to that guinea pig, as well as the homeless guinea pigs waiting to be adopted.

It's nice that you really like guinea pigs and want one, but in this case, they'd be better off waiting for a good indoor home.

Ly&Pigs
08-24-09, 04:12 pm
Predators aren't just cats, dogs, birds and wild animals but humans too. We've had people post on this very forum about human predators breaking in outside cages and killing or stealing the pigs.

You can't efficiently monitor for illness outside. One major fluctuation in heat or cold could cause them to become ill or die.

Buying pigs in petstores will ensure that you will either end up with pigs that have mites, pigs that may be pregnant or already ill pigs.

I'm glad that OCCH is not willing to adopt pigs out to people who want to house them outside.

mariaelise
08-24-09, 04:15 pm
I did have 2 guinea pigs before and they lived inside. Their cage was big, but honestly I think a bigger cage would be good. The temperature does not change a lot, and its an insulated hutch. That means it has good airflow.

I love guinea pigs, and I have done a lot of research on them. And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.

It's not that I am not willing to have the guinea pigs indoors, it's that I don't think 10 sq. feet is enough for them to roam about in. They are animals, they should not have to listen to vaccums, people talking and laughing, or the vibrations of someone running down the stairs. The backyard will be much more peaceful.

Many people in ENGLAND use outdoor guinea pig hutches. Where it SNOWS.

I know everyone on this site is hard-headed and not open to new ideas. But I am building a hutch, and the guinea pigs wont be unhappy in it.

I am not worried at all about the temperature. My dad built a shed outside, and it always stays nice and cool, no matter how hot or cold it is outside. He will use the same insulation here. If you don't think guinea pigs can ever live outside, then i think you are wrong. I will be posting a new topic once the hutch is built and the guinea pigs are happily living in it. If it doesn't work out, I guess we will have to find another family for them. I am sure it will, though.

mariaelise
08-24-09, 04:18 pm
Also, Ly&Pigs, I have an experienced vet in my area which I will bring the guinea pigs to be checked up right after they are adopted from a pet store. I think it's better to provide a suffering animal a good, healthy home then let it die in a pet store cage or have an inexperienced child who wanted a "G Force" guinea pig become the owner.

Paula
08-24-09, 04:31 pm
It sounds to me like you're pretty much willing to justify what you want anyway and have already made up your mind to relegate these poor pigs to a life outside because having them in your possession will make you happy.

And you're right, no one can give their pets attention for hours at a time. What they can do with their guinea pigs if they are indoors and at least in a place where they get a lot of interaction is monitor their healthy and behavior a great deal more closely than you will be able to if the pigs are living outside. If you really believe a guinea pig will be living a quality life outside, you're deluding yourself and quite honestly I think it's a shame that someone would be willing to build such a great home/cage for guinea pigs and then refuse to allow them to be inside as part of the family. They deserve better.

And it's not a matter of them "having to listen" to any of the household sounds you describe. They get used to those things as they get used to the house and the people that share their home. That's a very poor excuse for banishing them to the outdoors for your own convenience.

And that people have their guinea pigs living outside in England neither makes it right nor serves as justification for you doing the same.

And I'd appreciate it if you stop making assumptions about people on this site. We're not, as a whole, hard headed or closed to new ideas. We are, however, committed to seeing the animals we know and love living the best lives possible. And that means not seeing them live outside because they've got an owner determined to have them but not so determined to do what's best for them if it means compromising his/her own convenience.

Planning to pawn them off on another family when and if you decide they are unhappy in your outdoor utopia is irresponsible. Guinea pigs, like all pets, are for life. Not and experiment for you to try out or until you decide they are no longer your thing.

It's good to hear you've got a competent exotics vet lined up for the pigs you buy from a pet store. You're absolutely going to need one, it sounds like.

Ly&Pigs
08-24-09, 04:48 pm
And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.And making this statement is akin to calling members of this site liars. Unless you've been to these members homes you can't make statements like that and represent it as fact.


Many people in ENGLAND use outdoor guinea pig hutches. Where it SNOWS.And they go by the old standards and many are breeders too. Many probably don't even know about keeping pigs indoors so your argument has no merit.


I know everyone on this site is hard-headed and not open to new ideas.We are in fact open to new ideas, but keeping pigs in outdoor cages is not a new idea. It's been proven time and time again why keeping them indoors is better. Perhaps it's you that is hard-headed and not willing to listen to the facts stated.


Also, Ly&Pigs, I have an experienced vet in my area which I will bring the guinea pigs to be checked up right after they are adopted from a pet store. I'm at least glad you have a cavy savvy vet because you will most likely need it.


I think it's better to provide a suffering animal a good, healthy home then let it die in a pet store cage or have an inexperienced child who wanted a "G Force" guinea pig become the owner.And I, along with the majority of members on this site, think it's better to end the cycle of abuse, neglect and breeding that is associated with petstore pigs. For every pigs you buy in a petstore, it's replaced by at least two or more which come from backyard breeders or cavy mills where the breeders have no standards. The only way to stop the cycle is to stop the demand.

I think you are more about satisfying your own needs/wants instead of what is in their best interest/needs.

So basically, you can sit here and argue with us all day long and someone will counter your arguments. In the end you will do what you want but remember this, you don't get to come flaunt it here. Also please don't plan on posting photos of your outdoor cage in the galleries as they will be removed.

katiewilson
08-24-09, 05:26 pm
I did have 2 guinea pigs before and they lived inside. Their cage was big, but honestly I think a bigger cage would be good. The temperature does not change a lot, and its an insulated hutch. That means it has good airflow.I honestly do see your point...the bigger/more room, the better, right?! But in this case, it really is not better. Please trust the experience of really great guinea pig owners on this. Bigger does NOT necessarily mean better when it means you have to move them outdoors.


I love guinea pigs, and I have done a lot of research on them. And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth."Hours on end" may be an exaggeration for many, but that doesn't take away from the fact that pets made to live outdoors are usually not given nearly the kind of attention that indoor pets do.


It's not that I am not willing to have the guinea pigs indoors, it's that I don't think 10 sq. feet is enough for them to roam about in. They are animals, they should not have to listen to vaccums, people talking and laughing, or the vibrations of someone running down the stairs. The backyard will be much more peaceful.Hmm, it sounds like you're really reaching here. "Vibrations" from people using the stairs? C'mon now. When it comes down to it, the guinea pigs will be much more afraid of being exposed to predators and the elements than a vacuum. And which excuse is it...the cage wouldn't be big enough, or there's too much noise inside?


Many people in ENGLAND use outdoor guinea pig hutches. Where it SNOWS.Sounds pretty horrible, right? Isn't that just awful of them to do? Yeah, I feel that way about guinea pigs being forced to live outdoors, too. Even if it isn't snowing.


I know everyone on this site is hard-headed and not open to new ideas. But I am building a hutch, and the guinea pigs wont be unhappy in it.Yeah, a lot of us members are pretty hard-headed about things that have proven to be harmful to guinea pigs and that are generally considered poor pet care.


I am not worried at all about the temperature.Well, of course not, because you'll be indoors!


My dad built a shed outside, and it always stays nice and cool, no matter how hot or cold it is outside.Does it have air conditioning? If not, I'd be curious how one prevents a shed from getting too hot in California. Regardless, even California has its extreme-weather moments, and it's not fair to keep a relatively delicate creature outside for your convenience.


If you don't think guinea pigs can ever live outside, then i think you are wrong.(sigh) Then why bother asking for our opinions?


If it doesn't work out, I guess we will have to find another family for them.This saddens me the most. "I want guinea pigs, but not enough to keep them indoors, nor adopt homeless ones. Oh yeah, and if it proves not to be as convenient as I hope, then I'll dump them." Seriously, the selfishness is staggering, and I deeply hope you reconsider.

SpacePig
08-24-09, 05:32 pm
I live in the UK, the first piggy I had lived outside for the first 2 years I had him, it was cold, he was miserable and I wasn't old enough to realize it.

Now I look at my four pigs who are safe and warm inside and I cant imagine them being anywhere else. They take up half my living room but that's the sacrifice I made in order to make my cavies happy and part of my life. Its an old fashion view that dogs be kept outside, its the same with pigs.

If room is an issue, maybe think about a pet that requires less space

CavyMama
08-24-09, 05:55 pm
My sentiments and feelings about this situation are the same as the others here. You mentioned that when inside, pigs are bothered by loud noises like vaccuum cleaners and people going up and down the stairs. Two points on this - 1. they do get used to these noises after a while and 2. what about loud noises outdoors like lawn mowers, leaf blowers, motorcycles and weed whackers.

You mentioned that you had room enough for a 10 Sq ft cage. What's wrong with that? How many pigs do you have that you feel this isn't enough room? You say more is better while in the same breath saying you don't have enough room inside.

Also, you mentioned 40 sq ft including all the levels in the outdoor hutch. Upper levels don't count toward square footage. Whatever the main level is, is how many square feet they have.

Also, you said the weather stays pretty constant. You can't predict a cold snap or a heat wave. You can't say for sure that the weather definitely will stay constant.

As for predators, keeping the pigs inside ensures that you can keep an eye on them. Pigs outside tend to be out of sight out of mind.

As for adopting, do you think maybe there's a reason the shelter won't adopt to people planning to house outdoors? The solution to that is - DON'T KEEP THEM OUTSIDE! Your solution is to try to get around it by buying where they don't care WHO takes them home?

Sorry, I doubt you will get much support here for your outdoor enclosure.

Jennicat
08-24-09, 05:58 pm
I just want to say for the record, that I am really quite tired of people using space as an issue when keeping guinea pigs inside. We currently live in a house that is 900 square feet. It is tiny. I foster for a local rescue, and currently have 10 guinea pigs in my house, and they all have above the minimum required space. Surely if I can make room for 10 in my tiny house, the average person can make room for two, right?

xxlizzybordenxx
08-24-09, 06:10 pm
Why put them in a situation where they can be in such danger. You will feel awfully guilty if you wake up one morning to a torn open cage and no pigs. Wild animals are present everywhere especially as our human population grows and thier natural habitats are destroyed.

If you have limited room inside you should find a local rescue and adopt 1 pig that doesn't get along with others. There are pigs that prefer to be alone and will fight with other pigs but still love human companionship. That way you are dealing with the space issue and also helping out a pig in need instead of contributing to terrible breeding practices. You can shower that pig with tons of love and change his/her life indoors!

CavyMama
08-24-09, 06:17 pm
Just a note to add - I took a look at that Orange County Cavy Rescue. It looks fabulous! What a great organization! Most shelters don't (or won't) house guinea pigs and there in the OC is a shelter designated for guinea pigs. You should consider yourself lucky to have such a place close by. It even gives a list of local vets.

pigsmakemesmile
08-24-09, 06:36 pm
I just want to say for the record, that I am really quite tired of people using space as an issue when keeping guinea pigs inside. We currently live in a house that is 900 square feet. It is tiny. I foster for a local rescue, and currently have 10 guinea pigs in my house, and they all have above the minimum required space. Surely if I can make room for 10 in my tiny house, the average person can make room for two, right?


Diddo...I too live in a tiny 900 square foot house and occomodate 5 pigs, 5 rabbits and we foster dogs. It's back breaking trying to keep my home clean and work a fulltime job as well. Sure, moving the pigs outside would free up space, but one would have to be out of their mind to want them housed outdoors. I'd be more concerned about human predators....just read on some of the threads about what sick (expletive here) have done to pigs.... that were housed outdoors...so bad I had nights I couldn't sleep cause it made me sick and feeling awful about those poor innocent babies.

Don't get the pigs if your going to relegate them to outdoor living. Why even bother.

rabbitsncavyluv
08-24-09, 07:17 pm
If you don't have room for them indoors, then you do not need guinea pigs.

I live in So Cal and I would never house my guinea pigs outdoors. There are predators (racoons, hawks, coyotes, dogs, cats and even human ones) here and rapid temperature fluctuations. I have heard of many people losing their guinea pigs to heat stroke here - even after losing them, people don't believe that is what happened.

This site stands against outdoor housing for a reason.

By the way, you are not adopting from a pet store but buying. You are not doing those guinea pigs from breeding mills any favors by putting them in less than stellar conditions where they will likely live an even lower quality lifespan.

Please read Cage Location (http://www.guineapigcages.com/location.htm)

Especially the bottom. Guinea pigs who are housed indoors live longer and tend to be more social. Why bother getting them if you are keeping them outdoors away from you?

You seriously cannot move the couch a few feet or get rid of one piece of furniture for their benefit?

If you really think they will be happier outdoors then you have your head in the sand. You are not considering their best interest but yours.

rabbitsncavyluv
08-24-09, 07:27 pm
If you don't think 10 sq feet is enough then why not build them a bigger cage or give them lots of floor time?




It's not that I am not willing to have the guinea pigs indoors, it's that I don't think 10 sq. feet is enough for them to roam about in. They are animals, they should not have to listen to vaccums, people talking and laughing, or the vibrations of someone running down the stairs. The backyard will be much more peaceful.h.

Res Judicata
08-24-09, 07:30 pm
Do us all a favor and get a plant instead? Plants look lovely when staring at them through a sliding glass door, do not really care if you bother to interact with them or not and have less space considerations than a cage. My begonias absolutely thrive outside and do not enjoy spending the winters inside where they refuse to bloom and just tend to get leggy. They are simple to care for as well. A bit of water every day, depending on the weather, some fertilizer once a month and a larger pot when needed. Plus, they are easy to give away if you decide that a few minutes' of time watering them is just too much for you. Who does not like to get a nice potted plant?

Paula
08-24-09, 07:36 pm
I think it's better to provide a suffering animal a good, healthy home then let it die in a pet store cage or have an inexperienced child who wanted a "G Force" guinea pig become the owner.I also wanted to address this. An "inexperienced owner" at least might possibly be compelled to do some research and make better accommodations for their new pet. You, on the other hand, have done the research and know better and still feel it's justifiable to dump these animals outdoors. Calling it a "good, healthy home" does not make it so. And what you're suggesting most absolutely does not qualify as such.

SheriMartini
08-24-09, 08:07 pm
Why put these lovely little creatures outside when they can bring so much joy to your life inside? You will miss out on so much (not only from the health aspect) but even in entertainment from their silly antics! My heart warms every time they come to see me when I walk towards their cage. They stand up and talk to me while I'm in the kitchen, and popcorn like crazy when I clean their cage or give them hay or pellets or more water. They have such wonderful personalities, and you would never get to know them if they are outside.

DaCourt
08-24-09, 08:38 pm
I live in So Cal. The nights where I am can get very cold. Are you seriously trying to say that the temps in So Cal NEVER go above or below 70 degrees. You are nuts. We get plenty of warm and HOT days. Cold can be a big problem. You need to open your eyes.

You do not "adopt" form a pet store. You Buy. Would be interested to know who your cavy savy vet is?

rabbitsncavyluv
08-24-09, 08:59 pm
It's rather egotistical and close minded of YOU to think you know better than a reputable rescue, and all the knowledgable site moderators and long time members here. We do not advocate outdoor housing for specific reasons.

No one is forcing you to buy guinea pigs from a pet store/breeding mill. It is your choice.

You don't need guinea pigs if you can only house them outside like law ornaments.

VoodooJoint
08-24-09, 09:11 pm
One last note. Unfortunately, I probably wont be able to adopt guinea pigs. We have a local adoption agency in our area (Orange County Cavy Haven (http://www.cavyhaven.org/)) but they are against outdoor living too. So I guess I will have to buy from a pet store. I wish this was not the case, but it is.:(
Maybe the fact that the won't adopt to an outdoor home should tell you something. Maybe it should tell you that outdoors is not a suitable environment. Maybe it should also tell you that the petstore that will sell you animals that you plan to house outdoors does not care what happens to the animals they sell therefore, they do not care about the animals they bred NOR will they care about the animals they will breed to replace the ones you bought

Since you won't let logic tell you a thing I think you can congratulate your self on not only being obtuse, selfish, apathetic and a poor pet caretaker BUT you also will be helping make the pet overpopulation and neglect crisis worse.

Here are a few threads on outdoor housing you should read.
Summer is Coming. Should You House Your GP Outside? (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/about-cages/25502-summer-coming-should-you-house-your-gp-outside.html)
Outdoor vs Indoor (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/125073-post13.html)
UK GP housed outside dies of heatstroke (http://www.cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226480&posted=1#post226480</p&gt;=&lt;p=&gt;=)
GPs stolen from outdoor cage (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/about-guinea-pigs/10797-i-have-sad-news.html)
2 GPs in outdoor cage killed by dog (on Animal Precinct) (http://www.cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4584)
HAWK, drops guinea pig in someone's yard (http://www.cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3755)
Violent thugs batter family pets to death (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/outdoor-environments/17268-uk-pet-violence-another-reason-keep-them-indoors.html)
Thread about people breaking into outdoor hutches and sheds (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=26529)
2 guinea pigs stolen from outdoor shed (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=26659)
Guinea pig attacked by rats in shed (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=26661)
Magpies attacking GPs in their outdoor hutches (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=26307)
4 GPs dead. Cause is a suspected mouse infestation in shed and garden (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=25906)
Ant infested yard and hutches (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=25999)
Warning for those keeping animals outside (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=25676)
Guinea pigs stolen from "Cavy Sanctuary" (http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=25120)
GPs stolen from outdoor garden (http://www.midsussextoday.co.uk/mid-sussex-news?articleid=2857705)
More Guinea pigs die of heatstroke (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/introductions/27081-whats-up.html)
Guinea Pig Killed by Cat (http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45168)
Guinea Pigs Being Attacked by Cat (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/outdoor-environments/35782-help-my-guinea-pigs-being-attacked-help.html)

Barb1222
08-24-09, 09:12 pm
What is the point of this thread anyway? To make people mad? If you know this site is against housing piggies outside, why are you posting that that is what you want to do? Are you looking for some drama?

If you can't PROPERLY take care of them, don't get any piggies.

Richjess
08-25-09, 01:16 am
You say you have 10sq feet inside - that's big enough for two!

If you want an animal that likes the outdoors why not get a cat?

rabbitsncavyluv
08-25-09, 01:22 am
Statistics say outdoor cats do not live as long as indoor cats. I've seen many get run over by cars or die after ingesting antifreeze, catch diseases from other stray or feral cats, etc. They are better off indoors too for a multitude of other reasons.

Richjess
08-25-09, 01:26 am
I know the statistics are worse for outdoor cats - but I think it's not quite in the realms of abuse to let them go outside, which is their choice and their instinct, mine choose to go outside and sleep in the greenhouse, and they're currently 17 and healthy, I'd rather give them the great outdoors than worry about adding a few extra years to their life and a slight chance of injury

Richjess
08-25-09, 01:29 am
Note: I'm not advocating 'keeping' cats outdoors, just letting them in and out as they wish

DaCourt
08-25-09, 02:31 am
The OP mentioned not seeing many out door cats, but that there were coyotees. Coinicidence? I don't think so. I can't tell you how many neighbors have had their cats go missing, or how many times I would see what was left of a cat on someone's lawn. There are people who build outdoor enclosures so their cats can enjoy the great outdoors without the danger.

Richjess
08-25-09, 03:20 am
Fair enough in that regard then, if it's not safe for that particular environment then of course don't opt for that either, I merely thought if the poster really felt a caged pet couldn't fit indoors then a cat would be more suitable than housing GPs outside - I stand by my own comments on cats though as we have no natural predators to worry about here

How about chickens? Caged, and appropriate for the outdoors

VoodooJoint
08-25-09, 05:48 am
If you want an animal that likes the outdoors why not get a cat?
I suggest you do further research about just how inappropriate it is to allow cats to wander outdoors unattended. It is dangerous for them and irresponsible of you. Do not make suggestions on this board that are not in the animals' best interest.


I know the statistics are worse for outdoor cats ...Yet, you would put them in danger anyway? Believe me, when a cat you care about suffers from one of the major dangers of the outdoors you will change your tune.


Note: I'm not advocating 'keeping' cats outdoors, just letting them in and out as they wishThat doesn't make it better or safer


I stand by my own comments on cats though as we have no natural predators to worry about hereWhy do people always discount other humans as predators. Humans are the APEX predator. Where I live humans do the most damage to the feral and outdoor cats. I believe you likely have humans living within 10 miles of you? If so then you have the most dangerous predator of all--calculating, cunning, apathetic and cruel. If the wrong human gets near your cats the consequences are the stuff of nightmares. Unfortunately, there are more humans like that then you think. I see it nearly every day.

CavyMama
08-25-09, 05:54 am
Aside from predators, cats can catch diseases from stray cats outside. The unfixed cats can either get pregnant or get another cat pregnant. They can get run over, stolen, poisoned (intentionally or accidentally), attacked by another animal.

silkiepoo
08-25-09, 05:55 am
And they go by the old standards and many are breeders too. Many probably don't even know about keeping pigs indoors so your argument has no merit.

Not to get on the bad side but, don't you think thats a bit racist?
Others including me are British guinea pig lovers and the majority of us keep/will be keeping them in a hutch.

Of course hutches have their ups&downs, as do cages. But, cages are even worse than hutches. Have a cage means they have to listen to humans whinging, cleaning, TVs, talking, such&such. If they're outside they can actually listen to natural sounds. And it gets your out of the house anyway, visiting them, feeding them and running around with them, not just moving around their stupid C&C cage all the time because you have to dust that little nook in the corner.

As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!

Richjess
08-25-09, 06:01 am
I'm sorry but that's your opinion and I will disagree - of course there are risks involved, but that's life - and I have had one of my cats pretty badly injured in a fight, it didn't stop him going back out again and it won't make me keep him indoors, where he would be miserable - if the risks were particularly bad then I wouldn't do it, obviously

My apologies if you thought it was bad advice, I will happily withdraw any advice, but I will not be talked down to for the way I have raised my own pets, this is hardly the same as someone who keeps their guinea pig in a glorified litter box and claims they are happy

Amiee
08-25-09, 06:14 am
To a certain extent, I have to agree with you, RichJess. My family has 2 cats currently, both of which are exclusively indoor cats. We made that decision based on those statistics that indoor cats live longer and healthier. Both are shelter cats and former strays. One is absolutely ecstatic to never go outside again - no curiosity, even. She's the smart one. The rather dumb boy, Jake, though, is another story. Even though he's missing most of an ear from frostbite (from his stray days) and most of his teeth for some unknown reason, he wants outside in the worst way!! Maybe it's too boring inside for him... Can't give you longevity, as both are only about 10 just now.

So, our poor boy that wants to go out feels like he's missing out and is bored. We know he'd make a good mouser because of what he did when one got into the house. But still we deprive him. The cat I grew up with, Tiffany, was allowed out as she wished, and she lived to 19! There are many pleasures our boy may never know, not being allowed outside, but there are many other things he also won't know:

getting a hip shattered by a car, as Tiffany did
getting caught in a snare, as Tiffany did (and would have died if she hadn't somehow broken it)
getting run over by my Dad backing the car into the garage, as Tiffany's predecessor did

Those are the stories I remember of what bad things can happen to outdoor cats. We choose to keep inside for his own good. It's like children, they don't always know what's best for them. If you're determined, I recommend building a run for safety. It's obviously your choice, but indoor cats do live longer, healthier, and safer.

CavyMama
08-25-09, 06:15 am
Not to get on the bad side but, don't you think thats a bit racist?
Others including me are British guinea pig lovers and the majority of us keep/will be keeping them in a hutch.

Of course hutches have their ups&downs, as do cages. But, cages are even worse than hutches. Have a cage means they have to listen to humans whinging, cleaning, TVs, talking, such&such. If they're outside they can actually listen to natural sounds. And it gets your out of the house anyway, visiting them, feeding them and running around with them, not just moving around their stupid C&C cage all the time because you have to dust that little nook in the corner.

As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!

Racist??? I fail to see where you are getting that. Which "race" are you referring to, exactly?

Also, simply because most people do it (keeping them in a hutch) doesn't make it right.

You talk about them listening to "natural" sounds outside. As I mentioned before, what about car horns, lawn mowers, weed whackers, leaf blowers, motorcycles and all the other abrasive sounds from the outdoors? Add to that the dangers from predators and weather extremes and the indoors is the safer of the two.

You talk about people using generization but are you not doing the same thing when you refer to people who have C&C cages "moving around them because you have to dust in that corner"?

VoodooJoint
08-25-09, 06:23 am
I'm sorry but that's your opinion and I will disagree

No, it's not an opinion. It is a fact. There is a difference.


I have had one of my cats pretty badly injured in a fight, it didn't stop him going back out again and it won't make me keep him indoors, where he would be miserable - if the risks were particularly bad then I wouldn't do it, obviously
Is it going to take your cat dying in pain to change things? I had a cat, that I allowed outdoors, that a neighbor sicked his dogs on (purposely). The dogs mauled my cat so badly that I had to put her down. I was already anti-outdoors before this happened and I have 4 other cats that do not go outdoors. This particular cat came to me as a feral and I didn't force her to stay inside. I was wrong. I wish I had. It's a terrible thing to see and go through and you need to understand that I do understand your logic--and pray you will change your mind.

This last year in my rescue we had a kitten that had it's back broken by kids that were throwing it into the air and playing catch with it, a cat that showed up that was purposely blinded with some sort of chemical, several cats with their tails cut off with some sort of shears and I can's even keep track of the number of cats we rescue with BBs and shotgun pellets in them. These are just the ones we get alive. I'm certain most don't survive to "tell their tale". Just a few of the dangers to think about.

I realize that your cats are indoor/outdoor. I also understand that it is VERY hard to make a cat that is used to going outdoors stay in 100% of the time. However, you can admit that an indoor life is safer and healthier for cats and not allow any future cats you get outdoors. You can also not suggest other people allow their animals outside. It is poor advice.

Paula
08-25-09, 09:29 am
Not to get on the bad side but, don't you think thats a bit racist?Racist? This statement indicates to me one of two things - a) You're looking to stir up trouble, or b) You don't know the definition of "Racist" or "Racism." If it's the latter, which I doubt, I've included the definition of racism here, from Wikipedia:


Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.Now, I'm sorry, but the comment you quoted was about breeders, not the British as a lot. And sorry to break it to you, but breeders are not a race.


Of course hutches have their ups&downs, as do cages. But, cages are even worse than hutches. Have a cage means they have to listen to humans whinging, cleaning, TVs, talking, such&such. If they're outside they can actually listen to natural sounds.If I was looking for a way to justify doing something horrible to an animal I might also convince myself that doing the right thing is horrible for a number of ridiculous reasons, too.

If in your mind it's an awful thing for a guinea pig in a cage inside, where it's safe and the temperature is controlled is a bad thing because they have to listen to the TV, talking, and cleaning, my goodness, how do you stand it? I can't believe you haven't put up a tent outside to escape the atrocities of household sounds. You're a trooper.


As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. Well, I can certainly see why it might be offensive to a breeder. The truth really isn't all that easy to hear sometimes. And since you missed it, Ly didn't call "you all" breeders. She said "many are breeders." Since you're all about touting "research first" I suggest you do the same before propagating your nonsense here.

Maybe try reading a little more closely and do a little less twisting of what's actually said so you can start a fight. Or try to.

mariaelise
08-25-09, 11:13 am
I'd be more concerned about human predators....just read on some of the threads about what sick (expletive here) have done to pigs.... that were housed outdoors...so bad I had nights I couldn't sleep cause it made me sick and feeling awful about those poor innocent babies.

We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. We also have a badlocked gate that leads to our backyard and an alarm system. It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

Peggysu
08-25-09, 11:27 am
We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. We also have a badlocked gate that leads to our backyard and an alarm system. It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

This made me laugh. Are you that naive to think that it's that safe where you live? Give me a break.

Paula
08-25-09, 12:05 pm
We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. Makes me laugh too, but mostly it makes me sad. If you really believe this, I think you have a *lot* more life experience to gain before you take on anything that would be dependent on you for its care and needs. If you don't believe it and you're only saying it as a rationalization for dumping these animals you plan to buy in your backyard, don't bother. It's wasting your time and ours.


It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.You'd be surprised at the things people do, whether you believe they have time to do them or not. Aside from that, please share the name of this idealistic utopia you live in. I should think there would be some news reports or at least statistics of this wonderful suburbia where no crime has ever been committed and no one who lives there has ever had a bad thought or perpetrated even the most minor of transgressions. It's got to be a sociological wonder.

princesspoppy
08-25-09, 01:01 pm
We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. We also have a badlocked gate that leads to our backyard and an alarm system. It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

But yet you have a locked gate and an alarm system. Hum...... AND WHY IS THAT ? It's because......just in case anything should happen right. Thats exactly what we are trying to tell you about keeping them out side. Anything can happen,weather it be a change in weather,coyotes,humans,cats and so on.

momof1kid3piggi
08-25-09, 01:03 pm
I think this should be moved to the kitchen.

rabbitsncavyluv
08-25-09, 01:17 pm
You're funny. I have heard terrible stories about Pets At Home - and where do you think pet stores get their animals? gasp ... breeders?!

So there must be breeders if they are selling animals and you have pet guinea pigs. And isn't showing/breeding big in the UK?



Not to get on the bad side but, don't you think thats a bit racist?
Others including me are British guinea pig lovers and the majority of us keep/will be keeping them in a hutch.

Of course hutches have their ups&downs, as do cages. But, cages are even worse than hutches. Have a cage means they have to listen to humans whinging, cleaning, TVs, talking, such&such. If they're outside they can actually listen to natural sounds. And it gets your out of the house anyway, visiting them, feeding them and running around with them, not just moving around their stupid C&C cage all the time because you have to dust that little nook in the corner.

As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!

Wodentoad
08-25-09, 01:44 pm
A few points of fact you might consider, please, and I apologize for the length of the post, but I felt the best way to address this is point by point.


The temperature does not change a lot, and its an insulated hutch. That means it has good airflow.This is a contradiction in terms. Either it has good airflow, OR it's insulated. Even if the climate seems suited, there's no such thing as a wild cavy anymore. What if the weather turns and it storms for three days straight. Or what if it's just HOT and sunny and they have no where to get cool? And as others have mentioned, assuming there are no bears in your area, or raccons or opposums or foxes, what about domestic or even feral cats? What about flies? what about mosquitoes?


I love guinea pigs, and I have done a lot of research on them. And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.That's NOT the truth. I will explain in a moment.


It's not that I am not willing to have the guinea pigs indoors, it's that I don't think 10 sq. feet is enough for them to roam about in.How many pigs are you talking about? Some rescues have singles that have adapted just fine. We met one this weekend who does better on his own. Cavy Cages reccomends 10.5 square feet for two.


They are animals, they should not have to listen to vaccums, people talking and laughing, or the vibrations of someone running down the stairs. The backyard will be much more peaceful.My pigs watch NCIS and Cold Case Files (with Bill Curtis). Being domesticated animals means that they become used to certain sounds. Just like being handled, having check ups, having private area's cleaned, touching noses, and having their house cleaned, they expect a certain routine, and it's better for them than being in the unpredictable outdoors. I'm a country girl. I've been out camping with city folk. Ever heard a screech owl? Or a Barn owl? Haunting scary sounds.... Wide eyed in the dark sounds. Sounds that the pigs naturally fear. My voice should be a comfort. One of my piggies even comes when I call him, and the others are learning.


Many people in ENGLAND use outdoor guinea pig hutches. Where it SNOWS.Forgive me if I'm too forward, but the cavy we all know and love is descended from an animal that lived in South America, in Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia, in the mountainous regions of the Andes. Not in the snow, but in an area cooler than the jungles. They were domesticated 5000 years ago (according to Wikipedia), and no longer exist in the wild. They are temperature sensitive.


I know everyone on this site is hard-headed and not open to new ideas. But I am building a hutch, and the guinea pigs wont be unhappy in it.Would you be happy in an open air cabin? Rain, storm, wind, snow fog? You'd be miserable.


I am not worried at all about the temperature. My dad built a shed outside, and it always stays nice and cool, no matter how hot or cold it is outside. He will use the same insulation here. If you don't think guinea pigs can ever live outside, then i think you are wrong. I will be posting a new topic once the hutch is built and the guinea pigs are happily living in it. If it doesn't work out, I guess we will have to find another family for them. I am sure it will, though.With the rest of the posters, I am begging you :weepy: PLEASE don't buy piggies, please don't adopt piggies unless they are indoor piggies. I pray nothing happens, but the chances are SO bad against it.

mariaelise
08-25-09, 01:52 pm
Oh yes, whatever Cavy Cages says has to be right. Who are the "vets" who have confirmed that it is impossible for guinea pigs to live outdoors? I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets. For all I know, all of this "proved information" could be one vets word and it has just been passed around. I have talked to my vet, and he has been treating piggies successfully for years, and he has seen the sketches and plans for the cage. He thinks it should be fine, because of the insulation, and one side is open for good air flow. The wood wont make it too stuffy or hot, and should keep heat in during the night.

rabbitsncavyluv
08-25-09, 02:00 pm
Not all vets are cavy savy - and why is your vet's word better than ours or our vets?

I could give you the names of several vets that don't advocate housing them outdoors. Rescues are against that for a handful of reasons. Many members here know a lot more than most vets who tend to be dog or cat oriented than exotics oriented.

You were asked to give the name of your vet and you haven't. If he is so great then surely we must have heard of him. Is he on Cavy Haven's vet list?

Paula
08-25-09, 02:09 pm
Who are the "vets" who have confirmed that it is impossible for guinea pigs to live outdoors? No one's said it's impossible. It's definitely possible for pigs to live, albeit a shorter and far less healthy life, outside. What we've said is that it's not preferable due to a number of risk factors that the poor things wouldn't face if they were treated with respect and allowed to live indoors.


I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets. You don't have to be a vet to recognize when a person is doing something shamefully dangerous for animals they claim to adore.


For all I know, all of this "proved information" could be one vets word and it has just been passed around. I have talked to my vet, and he has been treating piggies successfully for years, and he has seen the sketches and plans for the cage. He thinks it should be fine, because of the insulation, and one side is open for good air flow. The wood wont make it too stuffy or hot, and should keep heat in during the night.And for all we know, you're fabricating this entire story and the vet himself. If you want to buy guinea pigs and banish them to the outdoors, do so quietly and don't flaunt it here. No one's going to give you a pass to do something that we know to be absurdly inhumane.

Fudgenrolo
08-25-09, 02:14 pm
As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!

I'm English and I'm not offended by other comments as I understood the context of them but I had to reply to this.

Pets At Home stores are *very* well known in the UK for being responsible for sick animals, for mis-sexing animals, for selling too-small cages and mostly for getting their pets from rodent farms. :sad:

Then there's their 'adoption' section in which they very often try and 'adopt out' animals from their own stores that are just too old to look cute anymore! But they all have the same label 'my owner couldn't care for me anymore' or similar. :rolleyes:

I know a lot of people who run rescues and they will happily tell you just how many of the animals they end up with in their care come from Pets At Home originally. Not that long ago Pets At Home kept its Guinea Pigs in with the rabbits - it's only fairly recently that this was stopped.

I would never describe those stores as being of the 'utmost quality'!

I can also vouch for the fact (because I have done my research) that are lots and lots of Guinea Pigs in rescue here desperate for a home. The pair I will be adopting are a year old and they are from a rescue I sourced by researching on the Internet.

To mariaelise - you have obviously made up your mind. I, like others, wonder just why you are posting all this on this forum? I read around on the forum a fair bit before joining as I always do with various forums I am a member of and I knew that indoor cages are recommended by one and all on here so had I decided to keep my 'pigs in an outdoor hutch I wouldn't have posted on here because there wouldn't really be any point in doing so.........

If you are so convinced you are right then fine. Go ahead and do it - though I don't agree with it alongside all the other people who have posted. But don't expect anyone on here to 'pat you on the back' and say how wonderful your set-up is because it just won't happen.

princesspoppy
08-25-09, 02:33 pm
I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets.

I am a cavy owner just under 2 weeks from IRELAND. Obsessed no. Care about animals,yes. Care about the animals welbeing,yes. Appalled by you lack of intellangency when it comes to the care of guinea pigs ,yes. And sure you post this thread to cause anger amoung the cavy members.

Piggie Problems
08-25-09, 02:39 pm
I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

Ibbet
08-25-09, 03:15 pm
If you aren't willing or able to keep them inside you really shouldn't get them, much less at a pet store. Ever stop to think there is a reason why the recuse wont allow adopters to keep them outside? There are predators everywhere, whether you want to believe it or not.

My house is also small but I didn't want my Hippie in a small cage so I made adjustments and he is much happier now. I'm sure you could do the same, you're just not willing to by the sound of it.

You should really consider the animals wellbeing and keep them indoors and adopt or consider getting a smaller animal like a hamster (with research of course) and a bin cage or two if space is that tight.

Ly&Pigs
08-25-09, 03:16 pm
I think this should be moved to the kitchen.It's already been moved from where it originated and even though the discussion has been mildly heated, it's where it belongs and where it will stay.


I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!Sorry but your pigs are not wild animals, they are domesticated. Taking them outside for supervised brief playtimes and to let them eat fresh forages is one thing, forcing them to live outside is quite another.

I have no clue what the temperatures get to in any part of England as I have not been there, but sometimes all it takes is a minor fluctuation in temperatures to end up with an ill cavy. Heat strokes are a problem as well.


Oh yes, whatever Cavy Cages says has to be right. Who are the "vets" who have confirmed that it is impossible for guinea pigs to live outdoors? I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets. For all I know, all of this "proved information" could be one vets word and it has just been passed around. No one ever said we "have" to be right. It's more about what is in the best interest of the pigs. Living indoors for a multitude of reasons is what is in their best interests. Like I said before, you don't seem to care much about their interests/needs as you are about fulfilling your own. Our info comes from thousands of owners and many exotics specialists. If you want to keep this argument up, you could at least provide the name of your vet and where he/she is located.

And finally, to clarify this statement I made on post #11 of this thread:

And they go by the old standards and many are breeders too. Many probably don't even know about keeping pigs indoors so your argument has no merit.I wasn't speaking ill or bad about England or it's people. The same can be said about America and other countries as well for many breeders and those who think it's fine to keep pigs outside. To be called a racist because of it, well that's ignorance.

Fudgenrolo
08-25-09, 03:17 pm
I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

Did you read the thread in full? There are plenty of links to read up on if you wish to thoroughly look into the reasons why keeping Guinea Pigs outside is not recommended.

Having Guinea Pigs outside in a run for exercise / grazing is fine. No-one has said otherwise. But that is different to keeping them outside to live 24/7.

The UK (South or otherwise!) is very prone to extreme temperature fluctuations. Just recently I read of a sad case of two Guinea Pigs who died of heat stroke whilst their owner was at work - this was here in England.

The past winter we had was awful. I was feeding the poor wild birds all the time to try and help them survive. It was bad enough in our house temperature-wise. There is no way I would have been happy with Guinea Pigs living outside in the freezing temperatures we experienced for weeks in a row never mind all the other reasons not to keep them outside.....

Edited to add based on a previous post - there is nothing constant about the English climate. Temperatures go up and down all the time. We had a *lot* snow and freezing temperatures last winter and summers vary between hot days and colder, rainy weather all the time. Today for example: warm, sunny weather this morning then getting colder with very heavy rain by this afternoon. Tomorrow's forecast is strong winds and lots more rain.

Paula
08-25-09, 03:21 pm
I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!If you believe them to be wild animals, why do you have them as pets?

And I'm sure they seem to love being outside "eating the grass in fresh air" but how will they feel about being mauled and eaten by a cat or other animal that stumbles upon them? Dying of heat stroke? Freezing to death? Falling ill and not having an owner who takes notice soon enough to treat or save them? And how would you know for certain they love it if they've never known a better life?

princesspoppy
08-25-09, 03:28 pm
Fudgenrolo,you took the words right out of my mouth. England and ireland have had the worst 12 months of weather. -10 UP TO 18/25 degrees. :( .Summer weather is not consistant. We can have 8 degrees on a monday and 20 degrees on a tuesday.
I think the pigs should be let out everyday for an hour or 2 (weather permitting).
But 24/7 :( not a good idea.

rabbitsncavyluv
08-25-09, 03:35 pm
I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

What the heck?

Foxes, possums and bears are wild animals. Guinea pigs are not. The ones in the wild of Peru are totally different. The ones we have are domesticated.

angiekay
08-25-09, 03:38 pm
WOW, I've read through most of the 3 pages of this thread, and I have to commend all the members here for voicing their experience and intellect with the member wanting to house their GP's outside. I am a serious new guinea pig owner, research and learn every day from this site and others, and I can't even imagine throwing my pigs outside, no matter how nice the "housing" was!!! It's funny about what was said in regards to the GP's not "wanting" to hear all the hub-bub of noises that go on in a normal household, my pigs love it when I walk past their cage oh about 50 times a day and say hello to them, and pet them, and talk to them, they wheak-wheak every time they hear the refrigerator open, I just can't understand the reasoning at all. She's obviously going to do what she wants, and I just hate to think of the babies that will be forced a life of refuge in a backyard "hutch"!!!

Fudgenrolo
08-25-09, 03:40 pm
I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

I'm sorry if I seem to be 'picking on you' but I've just noticed that in your other post you say that this is the "first time" you have had Guinea Pigs so you really can't tell much about anything yet in terms of their health and happiness as you haven't had them long enough. Guinea Pigs are not robust. They don't cope well with fluctuating temperatures.

They are not "wild animals" either. They are domesticated animals who depend on us to make the best decisions for them.

If your pigs are pregnant as you suspect; I would move them indoors any way you can all other arguments aside as you need to keep a *very* close eye on them in case of problems arising from the pregnancy. They really would benefit from the extra shelter too with babies on the way. Breeders who may ordinarily keep 'pigs outside don't keep pregnant sows and babies outside with no shelter - they are at the very least kept in a shed as well as a hutch. (Not that I would do this but just as an example for you.)

Piggie Problems
08-25-09, 03:41 pm
My pigs are very healthy they went for a check-up at the vet this morning and everything is fine, they live outside.
It is the summer and it is very good weather at present and when it's sunny they are in the shade and have ice packs to help them cool. They are locked in their hutch at night where it has been wind proofed. We have gone to exceptional lengths to make sure that no cat or dog etc. can pose a threat to them.

I do agree that the British climate can change rapidly so i make sure they can't get wet.
In the winter months the temperatures are too cold outdoors and live inside with us. you can't pamper pets too much.

Paula
08-25-09, 03:45 pm
You can justify making these animals live outside in any way you want. Tell yourself whatever you need to to help you feel better about neglecting an animal that depends on you, and you alone, to make sure s/he's safe, warm, and protected at all times. Whatever gets you through the night. But, I can assure you, that unless you're cozying up next to them in a sleeping bag and never leave their side, they are not safe at all times and any number of things pose a risk to them. And it will not be condoned or supported here.


you can't pamper pets too much.Allowing them to live indoors with the same safety and security you enjoy hardly qualifies as "pampering."

princesspoppy
08-25-09, 03:45 pm
you can't pamper pets too much.

Says who ? And ice packs. If they lived inside they wouldn't need an ICE PACK

Piggie Problems
08-25-09, 04:04 pm
Wow you guys really don't like the idea of them living outside, I love my pigs and love caring for them, ever since I've had them I have sat with them outside for an hour at least daily,(it's summer who is indoors anyway?) talking to them, handling and watching them. I bring them inside for a cuddle sometimes, I let them explore my rooms. Just because they're outside does not mean I am neglecting them!

Paula
08-25-09, 04:16 pm
I've had them I have sat with them outside for an hour at least daily,(it's summer who is indoors anyway?) talking to them, handling and watching them. I bring them inside for a cuddle sometimes, I let them explore my rooms. Just because they're outside does not mean I am neglecting them!As luxurious as that sounds, you really are doing your pigs a tremendous disservice by subjecting them to the elements, predators, and unknown dangers they face day in and day out living outdoors. You can never be too careful, and you can never prepare for all possible scenarios. Which is the strongest argument for keeping them indoors and not out. And while you might not be outright *neglecting* them, you are also not giving them the best life you could, and if you can't offer the best to a pet, why even have it in the first place?

Wodentoad
08-25-09, 04:19 pm
Wow you guys really don't like the idea of them living outside, I love my pigs and love caring for them, ever since I've had them I have sat with them outside for an hour at least daily,(it's summer who is indoors anyway?) talking to them, handling and watching them. I bring them inside for a cuddle sometimes, I let them explore my rooms. Just because they're outside does not mean I am neglecting them!

What about in a couple of months when the weather turns? What about that day you don't "feel like it" and would rather stay inside? What if, while they are out of site and out of mind, you forget to feed them for "just a couple of days" because you don't want to go out? Where do they stay when you have icicles hanging from your eves? My pigs live in my living room. I see them all day, not just for a couple of hours, and I can see immediately if they are having problems.

From another post, you said one of your sows is pregnant. I can only answer from the point of view of someone who has been pregnant. Hot, tired, uncomfortable. I don't want to be outside. I want comfort and love all around me.

Piggie Problems
08-25-09, 04:26 pm
This is getting quite tedious, if you read that post thoroughly then you would have seen that she is not heavily pregnant she is still early and might not even be pregnant! I had a rabbit that lived outdoors, i never forgot to feed him!(Did i mention he was 8 years of age until he died - or cancer not starvation!) Of all the animals that i have owned never have I not fed them! You would of also read that my pets come indoors for winter!:mad:

rabbitsncavyluv
08-25-09, 04:40 pm
8 is pretty young for a rabbit. Mine are about that old now. 10 to 15 years old is old.

Indoor rabbits live longer than outdoor ones too. Was it reproductive cancer? If so, a simple spay or neuter would have saved them.

Paula
08-25-09, 04:43 pm
What on earth difference should it make HOW pregnant she is? She's pregnant and you've got her holed up in a box outside. Outstanding.

Furthermore, you bought these animals from a pet store and you've completely disregarded their needs and favored your own convenience and put them outside. May I just say you are not painting of yourself a picture of the world's greatest guinea pig owner. And, really, I'm sorry to break this to you, but remembering to feed them daily does not make you Pet Owner of the Year.

If you don't want them in your house, why do you even have them?

Wodentoad
08-25-09, 04:44 pm
To the moderators and other group members, forgive me. I feel as if I have stepped on a hornet's nest. I believe that the hutch outside vs. C&C inside case has been stated and restated and I fell victim to a pot stirrer. I did not realize until a minute or so ago when Sister Mary You-Should-Have-Known-Better had to smack my knuckles with the ruler of realization.:melodrama

How many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb? Just one, but the lightbulb must really want to change.

Or perhaps: Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Thank you for your patience with me. I shall argue against the brick wall no further. This is me, shutting up--->:expressio

Ibbet
08-25-09, 04:46 pm
If they live inside during winter why can't you bring them inside permanently?

Paula
08-25-09, 04:52 pm
Wodentoad, it's certainly an argument worth making, and a discussion worth having any number of times. But there comes a point where you find yourself arguing with the woefully hard-headed and shamefully self-righteous.

We can list the arguments against housing guinea pigs outside for hours, but at this point it seems to have become an argument against insanity and you are correct, there is likely no point in continuing to provide fodder for this foolishness.

fieryone
08-25-09, 04:55 pm
And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.



Really? Our guinea pigs are talked to, held, and interacted with to varying degrees all day long. Just because you don't plan on paying attention to your pigs doesn't mean that no guinea pig owner does.

As far as the rest of your post? I'm sad that you're going to force some guinea pigs to live a life filled with loneliness, frightening sounds and smells, and very real potential danger to their health and lives. I beg you to please not get any guinea pigs until you're "willing" to devote the space and time that they require and deserve with your family, in your home. :(

Piggie Problems
08-25-09, 04:55 pm
This is not a real debate anymore, more like the third degree.

Richjess
08-25-09, 05:18 pm
No, it's not an opinion. It is a fact. There is a difference.


Is it going to take your cat dying in pain to change things? I had a cat, that I allowed outdoors, that a neighbor sicked his dogs on (purposely). The dogs mauled my cat so badly that I had to put her down. I was already anti-outdoors before this happened and I have 4 other cats that do not go outdoors. This particular cat came to me as a feral and I didn't force her to stay inside. I was wrong. I wish I had. It's a terrible thing to see and go through and you need to understand that I do understand your logic--and pray you will change your mind.

This last year in my rescue we had a kitten that had it's back broken by kids that were throwing it into the air and playing catch with it, a cat that showed up that was purposely blinded with some sort of chemical, several cats with their tails cut off with some sort of shears and I can's even keep track of the number of cats we rescue with BBs and shotgun pellets in them. These are just the ones we get alive. I'm certain most don't survive to "tell their tale". Just a few of the dangers to think about.

I realize that your cats are indoor/outdoor. I also understand that it is VERY hard to make a cat that is used to going outdoors stay in 100% of the time. However, you can admit that an indoor life is safer and healthier for cats and not allow any future cats you get outdoors. You can also not suggest other people allow their animals outside. It is poor advice.

It is only a fact that 'indoors' on average live longer and are healthier, it is not a fact that it is somehow 'better' to do this and means that you can look down on people who do it, that is just your opinion - you clearly have had bad experiences, and working in a rescue has no doubt shown you some horrors - I have known cats that had their backs broken by cars, I have even carried a run-over cat to the vet, it doesn't make me want to prevent them going outside any more than the nine year old girl who got run over by her own school bus last week would make me keep a child inside

It happens - as I said before, then I won't advise it to anyone, because there is a degree of responsibility involved - not all places are suitable and certainly if I lived somewhere where the risk was higher I would reconsider, but I will not be judged for my own choices - there are different opinions to yours and you cannot simply regard your way as 'proper' based on your own experiences, there is no objective reasoning being used here because you use only that which you have personally experienced and it's incredibly arrogant to criticise someone based on that

Just because it is statistically safer does not mean that it is the right option to lock up a cat, I'm sure it would statistically safer for me to never get out of bed and never drive - but you cannot live in fear of what people might do or what might happen, you must weigh up the risks - obviously if I was right next to a motorway or lived in a dodgy area I may have doubts, and no doubt if you measured cats that were allowed out in such situations compared to ones that had little threat you would find statistically the safer ones lived longer and were healthier too (as I said, mine rarely even leave the garden) - there is a degree of risk to everything, in my case it comes down to weighing the risks present in my quiet little area to letting them do what comes naturally, I believe in my case it is in their best interests to allow them to hunt and sit in the sun rather than being locked up for their own protection, there is not enough risk present to reduce their quality of life to that extent

I respect your right to an opinion, as you should respect mine, but you cannot simply regard your own way as right and tell us off any more than I should be judging you for doing what many people think is wrong and reduces their quality of life, especially when you don't even know the environment I am in and when most of your opinions are based on your own environment (and even your stats are not from the same country) - you may well be making the right decision for your own pets, the difference is I wouldn't dare criticise it without knowing the situation

Ly&Pigs
08-25-09, 06:32 pm
It's like talking to a brick wall in some cases.

I want to point out that we are not discussing this issue with a couple of mature adults but rather quite the opposite. We are dealing with a couple of minors here who think they know better than us. I honestly don't think we will get very far with either of them as they won't listen nor intend to do what is in the best interests of their pigs.

VoodooJoint
08-25-09, 06:48 pm
It is only a fact that 'indoors' on average live longer and are healthier, it is not a fact that it is somehow 'better' to do this
What? I think most people would overwhelmingly feel that safer and healthier is, indeed, better.


that is just your opinion Gee, can I ask for a show of hands? By using the positive/negative feature in the upper right hand of this post please vote people. Does doing something that is proven to increase the life and health of your pet the better way to care for them? If healthier is better vote positive (+) if not then vote negative (-)


you clearly have had bad experiences, and working in a rescue has no doubt shown you some horrors - I have known cats that had their backs broken by cars, I have even carried a run-over cat to the vet, it doesn't make me want to prevent them going outside It doesn't? That's pretty callous in my opinion.



Just because it is statistically safer does not mean that it is the right option to lock up a cat We aren't talking about putting them in a cage.


I believe in my case it is in their best interests to allow them to hunt and sit in the sun rather than being locked up for their own protection, there is not enough risk present to reduce their quality of life to that extent I think the multitude of cat caretakers that keep their cats inside would strongly argue against your statement of reduced quality of life.

All of the indoor cats I know of happily "hunt" inside, without actually killing any wildlife. They do sit in the sun and bask in the fresh air--there is this new invention you may not have heard of. They are called "windows".


I respect your right to an opinion, as you should respect mine I am so tired of explaining this. I respect opinions when there is something to respect. You are stating contradictions. You admit inside is healthier and safer BUT you insist that outside is better. That makes no sense. It works against logic and is not an opinion that I can respect.

It's rather like the explanations I hear people give me about not spaying or neutering their animals. Despite all of the proof that altering an animal is healthier and the responsible thing to do they still refuse because...well..darn it! They can!

In the end do whatever you want with your pets but we do not allow people to give out bad advise on this forum. At the very least you will be challenged.

-Steph-
08-25-09, 07:08 pm
I'm from the UK and it frustrates me seeing how many people house guinea pigs outdoors here - the temperature fluctuates all the time. We had weeks of really hot and humid weather last month that was unbearable for me, my pigs were cool purely because they were inside and I kept fans on... I dread to imagine some poor pigs outside in it, especially when within hours it can be massive storms - thunder and lightning etc. If anyone actually leaves their pigs out in the winter here, its just cruel, its far too cold.

How much space you have indoors is a poor excuse, my house is anything but big so the pigs stay in my bedroom so I can give them a 2x5 - I got rid of my wardrobe to give them that space since its about making them happy and comfortable, not satisfying yourself.

It seems your trying to justify to yourself why you are being selfish and determinedly ignoring all the advice that's telling you its not in the pigs interests to keep them outside. I had my pigs in the biggest pet store cage I could find when I first (stupidly) bought them- I didn't know otherwise at the time, the moment I researched on line and realised how I should be keeping them I immediately built them a new cage. I still never dream't of keeping them outdoors, not since we had to padlock all our garden gates and put in security lights after some sick person poured oil in my dads fish pond and killed all the fish: I dread to think what they would've done if they'd found a hutch with pigs. Just imagine if you go outside one day and find them killed by another animal or some sick human, is it really worth the risk?

As for Pets at Home, they are hardly the utmost quality, I was lucky my pigs from there were both boys and weren't ill. A friend got two pregnant baby pigs from them however - they sure weren't interested in paying vet bills etc

Seonta
08-25-09, 07:20 pm
As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!
She did not say everyone was a breeder who goes by the old standards. She said that many are. The problem is people look to breeders and see how they house their guinea pigs when they sadly buy guinea pigs instead of adopt. The breeders make the standards because they make their ways most well known. This leads to Petstores who sell guinea pig supplies to sell crap as houses.

I do not understand why you have a problem with people wanting to house and care for their pets under healthy conditions. Read the main page about why bigger cages lead to happier cavies and some of those news links regarding what happens when animals are thrown outside.

A hutch does not protect your animal from coyotes because they are sneaky, cunning, and strong... (not that I am against coyotes- I love all animals). And Racoons are masters at opening things if they want and they are not against eating animals. They can easily kill a defenseless guinea pig or small enough rabbit.

The safest place for a cavy is in your home.

Richjess
08-25-09, 07:34 pm
I don't wish to continue this any further - you will just continue to assert your opinion and say I am wrong, but for one using a show of hands on a forum does not prove a thing - surely you realise that...

You then call me callous, and ignore my reasoning that the healthiest and safest routes are not always the best - there is a logical point at which we all must risk our safety, there is no such thing as a totally safe existence and safety outdoors is completely relative to each of us (a point which you totally ignored), and again the quality of life issue is an opinion - I said it was mine and others, I was never so insulting as to cast judgement on those who actually do it

You then proceed to compare me to someone who is hard-headed about neutering - which of course I am not, and which of course is a much easier argument for you to destroy...that would be a strawman and is a truly awful way of arguing

You also mention the advice I gave - I retracted that 3 posts ago and apologised, it was bad, unthoughtful advice - it was rightly criticised and retracted, it is your assumption that it is somehow a totally wrong practice that I take issue with - it is your way, fine, I am not the one saying what is right and wrong

I will leave this debate knowing that you disapprove of my actions, and frankly, not caring, in the same way that you do not care for my views, you will no doubt regard me as an ignorant fool, and that's fine, because you can think whatever you want, and so can I

good day

Pulsepoint129
08-25-09, 09:08 pm
Racist??? I fail to see where you are getting that. Which "race" are you referring to, exactly?


Just a guess, but I'm thinking that poster means more "ethnocentric" than racist?

CavyMama
08-25-09, 09:16 pm
Just a guess, but I'm thinking that poster means more "ethnocentric" than racist?

I'm guessing you are right but I was questioning their use of the word "racist" as you don't want to bandy that word around lightly and there was no racial issue in question. Strong feelings are associated with the word "racist" and it's irresponsible to toss it about as if it's a cover-all for any group.

sealion
08-26-09, 01:28 am
Mariaelise, what do you want us to tell you ? That its okay to keep guinea pigs outdoors, that they are going to be so happy ? Or maybe you posted here knowing you wouldn't have positive feedback but just wanted to create some drama ?
If you love your guinea pigs as much as you claim so, then please, give them a nice indoor cage (2X4) with a nice bedding, food...and especially what they wouldn't have outside : human interaction.
Of course guinea pigs can live outdoors. Humans can live outdoors too you know. But it's not what's best for our health and happiness (unless it's what you chose to do).
Maybe you could let your guinea pigs outside for floor time a couple hours a day in a safe pen.

DaCourt
08-26-09, 01:44 am
You were asked to give the name of your vet and you haven't. If he is so great then surely we must have heard of him. Is he on Cavy Haven's vet list?

I don't think she has a vet. If he/she was so wonderful, you would think she would want to share with the rest of us.

And as a So Cal resident, I am really interested in finding out where this town is that has no crime.

Jessskater1
08-31-09, 01:28 am
All my guinea pigs live outside. Just because they are outside dosen't disclude from the family. In fact in case u already didn't know guinea pigs come from peru where the days are hot and the nights are fairly cold. So my point is that your guinea pigs can live outside and be way more happy to breath in the fresh air than be in a house.

CavyMama
08-31-09, 05:30 am
All my guinea pigs live outside. Just because they are outside dosen't disclude from the family. In fact in case u already didn't know guinea pigs come from peru where the days are hot and the nights are fairly cold. So my point is that your guinea pigs can live outside and be way more happy to breath in the fresh air than be in a house.

Those pigs in Peru also lived outside in nature where they could use their natural instincts to hide from predators. In a hutch outside, they are in the open where predators can not only find them but get at them fairly easily. They are basically sitting ducks, or fish in a barrel.

Those pigs in Peru could also find a warm place to nest when it got cold at night. The pigs in an outdoor hutch are limited as to where they can get a warm enough spot to sleep.

Wild Peruvian pigs that could use their instincts to find food and shelter were far different than the domesticated guinea pigs of today who rely on people to provide for their needs. A guinea pig in the backyard is out of sight, out of mind and their level of care is determined by how much or how little motivation their human has to actually go outside on hot days and cold nights to take care of them.

Keeping them inside is the far better option for any number of reasons, all of which have been listed here in this thread so it's rather like beating a dead horse at this point. Don't you think?

Jennicat
08-31-09, 05:34 am
Using the excuse that their wild ancestors survived the weather is like refusing to feed your dog because (after all) he came from wolves, so he should be able to take a deer down on his own, right?

VoodooJoint
08-31-09, 06:18 am
Let's not forget that wild guinea pigs (which hardly resemble our domesticated ones) only have a lifespan of about a year, usually less. They die off quickly due to injury, illness and predation. Thus, why they are able to reproduce so young, so often and why they have babies that are born "running"

But HEY! As long as it's "natural" it MUST be good.

pigsmakemesmile
08-31-09, 08:02 pm
All my guinea pigs live outside. Just because they are outside dosen't disclude from the family. In fact in case u already didn't know guinea pigs come from peru where the days are hot and the nights are fairly cold. So my point is that your guinea pigs can live outside and be way more happy to breath in the fresh air than be in a house.

Because their Ancestry is to the Peruvians doesn't qualify "domesticated" cavies to outdoor life. And as for location, there is a sharp temperature difference between Peru to your location in Canada were it's quite colder to say the least. I cannot for the life of me imagine how cold your pigs are and literally suffer during the winter months in Canada were the arctic air is so much harsher simply because of your mindset. I find it very "Cruel" for you to house them outdoors just for this reason alone. You really need to re-think your logic for the sake of the animals. Domesticated is just that...they are domesticated towards being accustomed to being cared for..meaning, being fed, being kept warm, being kept safe, things that if they were raised in the wild, they'd learn on their own, but in captivity, this opportuinity for learning is taken from them.

rabbitsncavyluv
08-31-09, 09:35 pm
All my guinea pigs live outside. Just because they are outside dosen't disclude from the family. In fact in case u already didn't know guinea pigs come from peru where the days are hot and the nights are fairly cold. So my point is that your guinea pigs can live outside and be way more happy to breath in the fresh air than be in a house.

If it is so nice outdoors why don't you move outside permanently with your pigs then?

silkiepoo
09-01-09, 04:41 am
You're funny. I have heard terrible stories about Pets At Home - and where do you think pet stores get their animals? gasp ... breeders?!

So there must be breeders if they are selling animals and you have pet guinea pigs. And isn't showing/breeding big in the UK?

OH SHOCK, OH GASP! Guess where rescues get their cavies? BREEDERS.
And if not, where do you think the people before the rescue got them, BREEDERS.

Amiee
09-01-09, 05:14 am
Because their Ancestry is to the Peruvians doesn't qualify "domesticated" cavies to outdoor life. And as for location, there is a sharp temperature difference between Peru to your location in Canada were it's quite colder to say the least. I cannot for the life of me imagine how cold your pigs are and literally suffer during the winter months in Canada were the arctic air is so much harsher simply because of your mindset.

Um... generalizing about the climate in Canada is not usually a good idea. I'm not justifying keeping guinea pigs outside, just saying it may not be as cold as you think, you really don't know. It depends on where he/she is in BC - southern BC has quite a mild climate compared to the rest of Canada (generally speaking :)).


If it is so nice outdoors why don't you move outside permanently with your pigs then?

Good advice - if it's too cold for you without specialized cold-weather gear, it's probably too cold for your pigs who don't have cold-weather gear. If you're comfy and feel safe to stay out there forever, well, that's one thing. Or you could just stay there and let the pigs have your room! :eek:

blackarrow
09-01-09, 05:34 am
[S]outhern BC has quite a mild climate compared to the rest of Canada (generally speaking :)).

That's nice, but that some parts of Canada aren't as cold as others doesn't say anything about ANY part of Canada being warm enough for guinea pigs to live outdoors. I live in upstate NY, which is further south than about 98% of Canada, and can say with some confidence that IT ISN'T SUITABLE.

blackarrow
09-01-09, 05:42 am
OH SHOCK, OH GASP!. . . .
And if not, where do you think the people before the rescue got them, BREEDERS.

Yes, and that's a problem. That's the point.

The number of pigs that are the accidental offspring of missexed pet shop pigs or of pigs housed together by people who don't know they're already sexually mature is quite sufficient to keep rescues busy without breeders adding to the mess.

Amiee
09-01-09, 05:56 am
That's nice, but that some parts of Canada aren't as cold as others doesn't say anything about ANY part of Canada being warm enough for guinea pigs to live outdoors. I live in upstate NY, which is further south than about 98% of Canada, and can say with some confidence that IT ISN'T SUITABLE.

Did you read to the end of the post where I agreed with others that if it's so nice and warm outside that the human should live out there instead of the pigs? I never said it was warm enough for pigs, I was arguing what was said about the Arctic winds, which makes it sound much worse than it may be.

Oh, and latitude isn't everything - just compare England and Canada for latitude and climate. The west coast is a totally different story climate-wise than the east coast.

Wodentoad
09-01-09, 06:01 am
That's nice, but that some parts of Canada aren't as cold as others doesn't say anything about ANY part of Canada being warm enough for guinea pigs to live outdoors. I live in upstate NY, which is further south than about 98% of Canada, and can say with some confidence that IT ISN'T SUITABLE.

Agreed, and as a further point, I live in Tennessee. Now, we don't get snow every year where I live, but there are weeks when I cover every available inch of skin to keep warm and I avoid going out at all. OUR winters are not suitable for guinea pigs, nor are our summers. Mosquitoes are terrible this year, and it's been hot as blazes. DOMESTIC pigs are temperature sensitive. What does that tell you about Canada far to my north? If a person can freeze to death outside, my animals aren't staying.

At the moment, my boys are playing tag and running laps around their indoor cage and clowning up a storm. :tearsofjo I can't imagine missing a second of this--they had me laughing in tears yesterday from the pure, unadulterated adorableness. How much would I have missed had I banished them to the cold, predator-filled outdoors?

Yay, warm snuggles! Yay, happy piggies.

Amiee
09-01-09, 06:06 am
I agree that guinea pigs should not be kept outside! For a variety of reasons! I'm just trying to say all of Canada is not a frozen wasteland, and latitude is not all that determines climate.

blackarrow
09-01-09, 06:08 am
Did you read to the end of the post where I agreed with others that if it's so nice and warm outside that the human should live out there instead of the pigs? I never said it was warm enough for pigs, I was arguing what was said about the Arctic winds, which makes it sound much worse than it may be.

Yes, I did read your whole post, and I can't imagine why you think there is any part of Canada which doesn't experience Arctic winds. It's a simple geographical fact. And who cares if it "sounds much worse" than it is, when what it is, is TOTALLY UNSUITABLE for outdoor habitation?

No kidding latitude doesn't mean everything, but England = also unsuitable. You're not helping yourself here.

blackarrow
09-01-09, 06:12 am
I'm just trying to say all of Canada is not a frozen wasteland, and latitude is not all that determines climate.
1. No one said any such thing.
2. It's off topic.

Amiee
09-01-09, 06:27 am
Ok, I apologize. I forgot that this is not the place to give a geography/climatology lesson. The focus is guinea pigs and their housing. I fully agree that guinea pigs should be kept indoors (and always did) even if you live in the tropics - temperature is not the only reason to keep them in, as has been discussed in this thread.

To defend what I did say, some Canadians might care if it 'sounds much worse' as we can be sensitive to such stereotypes from our Southern neighbours, especially if we forget what forum we're on. The polar easterlies prevailing winds stop for the most part at 60 degrees North latitude - the prevailing winds in most of Canada are from the southwest (which is, of course, not to say they never get wind from the North). There's also the effect of the jetstream, ocean currents, etc.

So, again, sorry for forgetting that others don't care as much as I do about correct geography/climatology. What matters is the message about piggie housing. Outside habitats are not suitable for guinea pigs - ANYWHERE.

crazywiggy
09-01-09, 09:22 am
Wow - so many things to say I hardly know where to start...

1) England. Many people keep pigs the "traditional" way in a outdoor hutch. All the books, websites, and many rescues advocate this type of housing. That doesn't make it right!! Most of the info available in the UK is the outdated, breeder espoused rubbish.

I had one outdoor pet - a rabbit - as a child. He died at only 2 years old from pneumonia. Never again.

Pets at home is horrible - crap products, high turnover of animals (from BYBs), poor care etc. Only last week a friend of a friend found her new pigs were mis-sexed and one is now pregnant. They refuse to guarantee the sex of their animals despite having a vet in the store!

2) Upper levels don't count. So the difference is 16 sq feet rather than 10? Not much, when 10 is technically big enough anyway. I personally don't think all the risks are worth it.

3) Some said just because outdoor animals live longer etc, how is it better? Are you serious??

Living outdoors causes suffering. Having a predator sniffing round your hutch is far more stressful than hearing the TV. Being freezing cold, boiling hot, damp, sitting in a draft etc is uncomfortable. Being ill from the poor environment causes suffering.

I would have thought it was quite obvious that keeping animals indoor where they are safe and comfortable is better than outdoors in conditions which cause stress, discomfort, illness and have a high risk of early death.

4) Rescue animals come from breeders originally so it makes no difference?

Again - are people really that stupid!?

Buying an animal from a breeder (either directly or via a pet shop) funds and encourages further breeding. It opens up a space, provides the money and the incentive to breed yet more animals into an overpopulated world. More animals to end up in rescue.

If people stopped buying animals from breeders / stores, then few would be bred and few if any would be euthanased or dumped in rescues.

Getting a rescue animal does not support the breeders or stores in any way - the damage has already been done by the intial purchaser. They do not encourage or fund breeding. Any adoption fee goes to saving more animals that would otherwise be DEAD for want of a home.

Finally - It really is simple...

1) Buying animals from breeders is irresponsible and unethical whilst there is overpopulation. Buying from pet shops (therefore the very worst breeders) can NEVER be justified. Buying from a store because you "can't find pigs to adopt" is a crap excuse - but buying pigs because you can't provide proper care (according to the rescue) is downright offensive.

2) Outdoor housing is bad. It is not safe, not healthy, not appropriate. It causes suffering, sickness and death.

Seriously - if people can't provide proper care they should not get the pets!

Paula
09-01-09, 09:34 am
So my point is that your guinea pigs can live outside and be way more happy to breath in the fresh air than be in a house.Sure, they can live outside. But that doesn't mean they should. I'm sure my dog would live if I fed her nothing but raw chicken necks and Ruffles potato chips. Does that mean she should live that way? Eh, no, I hardly think so.


OH SHOCK, OH GASP! Guess where rescues get their cavies? BREEDERS.
And if not, where do you think the people before the rescue got them, BREEDERS.Yes, and the whole reason the rescues have to exist in the first place is because those breeders care about nothing more than a profit, and therefore will sell their stock to anyone and anything with the money to pay. So you have people that make impulse buys in pet stores and then realize they got way more than they bargained for and dump them in rescues. Your argument here is severely lacking in any kind of logic.


To defend what I did say, some Canadians might care if it 'sounds much worse' as we can be sensitive to such stereotypes from our Southern neighbours, especially if we forget what forum we're on. I'm sorry, but I don't see that any stereotype was applied anywhere. No one implied or suggested that Canada is a barren wasteland. What was stated was that it's not an appropriate climate for a guinea pig to live outdoors. Since you seem to agree with that I'm really uncertain why you're carrying on about geography and climatology. Seriously.

Jessskater1
09-01-09, 03:22 pm
Just to clarify something, my guinea pigs live outside in a hutchXrun in the summer and spring. I wouldn't dare leave them outside in the winter or fall. Thats why i have a heated shed for winter and fall. Sorry if i left that out earlier.

rabbitsncavyluv
09-01-09, 03:22 pm
OH SHOCK, OH GASP! Guess where rescues get their cavies? BREEDERS.
And if not, where do you think the people before the rescue got them, BREEDERS.

Yeah, them rescues should be thanking breeders for keeping them "in business" and for selling to idiots who neglect and dump their purpose bred guinea pigs months later after buying them.

juliaaa
09-01-09, 03:40 pm
Just to clarify something, my guinea pigs live outside in a hutchXrun in the summer and spring. I wouldn't dare leave them outside in the winter or fall. Thats why i have a heated shed for winter and fall. Sorry if i left that out earlier.

The point of this discussion is that guinea pigs should not be living outside at all, no matter what the season. What happens if they get too hot during the summer? Also, a shed is not a good replacement for a house. If they're always outside, away from the family, the chances of you noticing an ailment are drastically reduced.

silkiepoo
09-03-09, 05:04 am
After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

VoodooJoint
09-03-09, 05:41 am
This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies.
Gee did you just figure that out? YES! This WHOLE website is for promoting C&C cages. It's kinda the entire purpose of this site, it's called "Guinea Pig Cages" and I do believe that the homepage of this site might just make a mention about these types of cages and why they are the best choice for housing.


except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. I take great exception to that. I am just as judgmental and whinge just as much as any other mod here.

By the way, you are whinging right now too. Welcome to the club.


Can't we just all get along?No we can't. It's a rather naive question.

I don't "get along" with thieves, liars, slackers or animal neglecters. I don't like them and think they are pretty poor examples of humanity. If they change their ways then maybe I'll "get along" with them then.


I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.Then don't read them and certainly don't respond to them.

If you can't embrace logic and take better care of your animals AND encourage others to do the same then I don't really want to be your friend and I think a lot of other people on this website feel the same. You will just have to come to grips with that.


Can we close this thread? No.

CavyMama
09-03-09, 05:58 am
After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

Okay first, what "indoor breakable square thingees" are you talking about? If you mean C&C cages, I would have to disagree. I've never had a problem with any of mine (or any part of them) breaking. If they haven't been secured properly, then yes, it's possible for the grids to separate but as long as you make sure the grids are securely connected, it shouldn't break.

If you mean store-bought cages, I've only owned one and that was with my original pig, before I discovered C&C cages but actually that one never broke either so I'm having a hard time figuring out what you mean by "indoor breakable square thingees".

You call the mods judgemental all while talking about how they "whinge"(??) when people disagree but is that not what YOU are doing? You also say Americans believe anything they hear, is this not judgemental?? Come to think of it, this isn't the first time I've seen you pass judgement on Americans and although I believe people are allowed to believe what they want, you seem to have a particularly big chip on your shoulder about it.

You get angry when people don't support you but when you make these baseless sweeping statements about a large group (Americans) on this forum, what do you expect??

You claim that "no information on animals is outdated". Well it depends on where you are getting your information. Many books they sell about guinea pigs ARE indeed outdated and inaccurate. Most of the copyrights are over 10 years old.

The long and the short of it is this: This is an open forum. Not everyone is going to agree all the time. You knew this when you signed up. No one is forcing you to stay.

MapleSyrup
09-03-09, 10:38 am
^ I agree with these people. silkiepoo, I understand that this forum can feel like they bash people, but they are stating the facts very formerly.

I was lurking around the site before I joined, and I have seen people in this forum being hard-headed because they think that whatever they are doing is right, but, in fact they are wrong.

The mods on this site work very hard to keep this site up and running. I feel that this site is very informative and if you can't see that, then don't come here anymore. If you think the mods are being judgemental, think again. They are trying to state facts to help piggie's life with the owner.

Your comments on Americans was very unessary and judgemental. You should think about what you are going type before posting such offensive comments. Many users, including me live in America and find your comments rude.

I saw your post on C&C cages, stating that the one you built is breaking apart. If you built it properly, the cage would be a good home. But you think C&C cages are "stupid breakable indoor square thingies" I am currently using a C&C cage, and it is great! My Maple is very happy and is popcorning more often, then being in a pet store cage which is now in the basement.

Also pet care can be outdated. I bought a book(Didn't know any better back then, before I found this site.) and many of the facts in the book are outdated.

Sorry about the long post.

Ly&Pigs
09-03-09, 11:21 am
After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

I don't even know where to start. Maybe by being judgmental and whiney, might as well live up to what I am being accused of.

I'm sick of your blasé attitude towards proper care. I'm sick of your useless posts. I'm also quite tired of you taking something someone said and twisting it totally around to suit your own needs. No one said ALL the info in Britain is outdated. And how dare you slight Americans in the way that you did. That was totally unncessesary and uncalled for. I took great offense at the comment and I'm sure others did as well.

You are just so naive. I think you are just miffed that we mods wouldn't approve some of your posts where you gave poor/bad advice and claimed to be some sort of expert on silkies/shelties, so you are getting back at the forum and us mods in any way that you can. We don't know you from Adam and we certainly don't allow bad or very poor advice to be given here. Why should we?

I'm not here to be your friend, I am here for the welfare of our furry little friends. I am also here as a moderator/administrator to help ensure the forum runs by the rules that it's set forth. If that makes me an oh so horrible person than so be it. Hey, but at least I am not a breeder and I don't house my pigs outside where they could get heat strokes, freeze to death, get stolen or eaten by predators.

If you don't like it here, there are many other forums out there.

I also want to say that if any of the other mods feel like I need an infraction for this post, well I'm not above the rules.

Paula
09-03-09, 11:53 am
This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies.Your powers of observation are truly impressive, silkiepoo. Wow.


The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE.Thank you, actually. Because generally, it's being 'judgmental" that brings about change. So if my being judgmental causes someone to wake up and do right by their pets, well, so be it. I can deal.


Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. It's not so much a matter of not 'liking' ... It's a matter of knowing you're doing something that is dangerous or inappropriate for animals for which we care greatly and dearly love. If you want to provide pathetic care to animals that depend on you, fine. Shut up about it, keep it to yourself instead of bragging about it here. Then you won't be giving us anything whine or preach about. What a fantastic concept.


I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.My, that's a brilliant idea. Why don't you take a break from this site that pains you so and go write your masterpiece?


Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.I don't really want to be friends with people that can't be bothered to do right by their pets, so it's really ok. And if you're so sick and tired of our "pathetic discussions" why do you keep torturing yourself by not only reading them, but by participating in them? This baffles me. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Cheers.

silkiepoo
09-03-09, 01:18 pm
Your comments on Americans was very unessary and judgemental. You should think about what you are going type before posting such offensive comments. Many users, including me live in America and find your comments rude.

If have actually read all posts Maple. You would realise why I said that about Americans.

Paula
09-03-09, 01:22 pm
If have actually read all posts Maple. You would realise why I said that about Americans.Ugh, no. Actually the only one who is able to make any sense out of your disturbingly skewed sense of logic is probably ... you.

silkiepoo
09-03-09, 01:31 pm
You claim that "no information on animals is outdated". Well it depends on where you are getting your information. Many books they sell about guinea pigs ARE indeed outdated and inaccurate. Most of the copyrights are over 10 years old.
Actually, you don't depict what the word 'outdated' utterly means.

Outdated - When a rule or statement is changed, the previous rule or statement becomes outdated.

Paula
09-03-09, 01:38 pm
Outdated - When a rule or statement is changed, the previous rule or statement becomes outdated.Really? All you're left with is defining words as a means to validate your argument?

I think it's definitely in your best interest to focus your energy on providing better care to your guinea pigs instead of continually attempting and failing to pick apart the reasons and arguments for doing so.

And another thing. For a person so uppity about the stereotypes you feel are being applied to the British, you're awfully quick with the judgments on Americans.

Fudgenrolo
09-03-09, 02:04 pm
You know what I don't get?! Why on earth someone joins a forum when they disagree with all the principles and animal care standards it tries so hard to promote. :?:

It doesn't take a lot of reading around a forum to get a 'feel' of the ethics that it promotes. I read on here a lot before joining. There was a long gap between joining and me actually posting on here - perhaps mainly due to the fact that I realised not long after I joined that I would have to wait a good while to be able to adopt any Guinea Pigs. But I freely admit that I wasn't sure about some of the things I read on here.... including the all-out stance against keeping Guinea Pigs outside, ever.

But that was then. I thought about it and came back here when I knew I was definitely wanting to adopt pigs in the near future and I realised that it made sense. We lost a beloved chinchilla recently. She went downhill so ridiculously fast it was awful and though we got her to a vet very quickly she died. It made me think as I had previously been considering getting a pair of rabbits to keep outside but now I stopped and wondered because we lost our little girl even though she was in our home and we saw her several times a day - so what if an outside pet got sick? How would it stand a chance being seen closely only a couple of times a day?

So I came back happy in the knowledge that I fully agreed with the principle of keeping pets indoors. If I really didn't feel that way - I could quite simply have gone elsewhere - there are several other Guinea Pig forums - including a few UK based ones that I know of so why take part in the forum if you don't agree with some of the basic care principles that are promoted here? What is the point? And insulting all Americans? How wrong is that?!

All that I have since learnt here has only further confirmed my feelings about keeping my future Pigs indoors and I can only say a big 'thank you' to my US friends for the information provided here and for the very idea of C&C cages. :) x

Wodentoad
09-03-09, 02:04 pm
Silkiepoo: Wait, I think I must have read your "definition" post incorrectly. Are you refuting your own argument? Otherwise why define outdated? Perhaps I'm just being an "American." (Sorry, couldn't resist. Bad, Toad, BAD!)

They once thought that guinea pigs only needed a litter box to live in, that beating an Elephant (or any other animal) was the only way to get it to perform, and let's not even start with the veterinary advancements that turn old school treatments on their heads. Animal information becomes outdated frequently. Up to date books and up to the second internet keeps our animals in the best situations we know how.

rabbitsncavyluv
09-03-09, 02:04 pm
I don't understand a word you are trying to say.


After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

MapleSyrup
09-03-09, 03:24 pm
If have actually read all posts Maple. You would realise why I said that about Americans.

...Please, I have read your posts about Americans. Actually, you are offending many countries including yours, because America is a place where many different peoples, cultures, and countries, come together, including Britain.

It's not like that every single person in America is Blond, have blue eyes, and white skin,(No offense to blonds, blue eyes or white skin, using a stereotype.) it is a place with different people with different races, skin, heratage, history. I am not a "True American", I am an American Cizitian, I was born in America, but my heritage is from Vietnam.

Nobody is from America, or is a "True American". Like I said, it is a place where people come together from all over the world.
So, I actually don't realize why would you say such things about America.

AND, why are you even here if you don't like it here? Why do you continue to stay here if you don't like it here?

pigsmakemesmile
09-03-09, 07:31 pm
I read a lot of posts and threads for a few weeks before deciding to join and learned in the reading, that this site takes pride in how it promotes the well being of these little fuzzy furballs. From all the knowledge gained by the mods, my boys live the life. If I didn't like the tone or attitude, I could have simply turned away and gone elsewhere. Raising a guinea pig or pigs properly for that matter is something that's taken seriously.

CavyMama
09-03-09, 08:09 pm
Actually, you don't depict what the word 'outdated' utterly means.

Outdated - When a rule or statement is changed, the previous rule or statement becomes outdated.

Since you seem to like defining things...how about:

TROLL - someone who flames a discussion for the sole purpose of causing a dust-up or debate.

Kipsie
09-03-09, 09:01 pm
I realize we're not talking about the thread-maker anymore, but don't they know that Coyotes are just as dangerous as cats (to piggies), if not worse?

I can't think of one outdoor place that doesn't have potential predators. If there are no cats, they're are hawks/eagles/vultures. If not, there are dogs looking for play toys, if there are no dogs, there are bears, wolves, coyotes, etc. Even in South Florida, during hurricane season (the one where we had 4 hurricanes in a row) when people were out of food and had no electricity, they resorted to shooting and eating wild animals like pigeons (Ew, hopefully, that won't happen to outdoor piggies). Just because you don't see them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

And when there is a horrible storm or earthquake, the pigs would stay outside?

I don't think the pigs would get much attention outdoors away from the family, anyway. The weather issue was already mentioned...

Ly&Pigs
09-03-09, 09:58 pm
I want to say to all members, please do not call people trolls in threads. If you think someone is a troll, use the report post feature. It's not for the members to decide if any member is or is not a troll, that's for us mods/admin to determine.

Paula
09-03-09, 10:11 pm
I realize we're not talking about the thread-maker anymore, but don't they know that Coyotes are just as dangerous as cats (to piggies), if not worse?It's easy to overlook these cruelties when you make a decision for nothing more than your own convenience, as I strongly suspect the OP has done. You can rationalize and justify anything once you've dispensed with the pesky little matter of your animal's health and well being. After all, it's not HER living outside, now is it? Who cares if the pigs don't get the care or attention they need, face daily weather differences and any number of predators while in her care? She can see them through a sliding glass door. Not to worry.

silkiepoo
09-04-09, 12:01 am
If you are wondering why I and SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE are against Americans. Hence about 34 people said 'coyotes'll get your piggies if they're outside.'

Cough.

We don't get coyotes here.
Ne comprenez-vous?
Yeah and by the way. I don't give a if your family is Vietnamese Maple. You were born there you're an American.

Kipsie
09-04-09, 12:23 am
If you are wondering why I and SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE are against Americans. Hence about 34 people said 'coyotes'll get your piggies if they're outside.'

Cough.

We don't get coyotes here.
Ne comprenez-vous?
Yeah and by the way. I don't give a if your family is Vietnamese Maple. You were born there you're an American.


Wait... Was I one of those roughly estimated 34 people? I wasn't talking to or about you if you meant me. :expressio

And who started this stereotyping of all Americans thing? This is very entertaining, like MadTv. :optimist:

But this isn't really guinea-pig related. Where you're born doesn't directly affect your veiws.


And I live in South Florida, and we don't get Coyotes either, but i'm not leaving Twix and Dory outside with or without them.

gunnybunny
09-04-09, 12:28 am
Holy Hanna this is a very long post.. Does anyone know if she ever got the poor animals? I hope not. I think that her local shelter made a very good point in not allowing her to adopt those poor piggies, they would have ended up right back there or worse dead. If she wants something she can watch from a distance get a gold fish. They do not care about anything they just sit there and swim, and look at you like your funny looking. I was recently debating on where my little guy's cage should be, but I NEVER thought about putting it out side. Just yesterday I had a stray cat sleeping on my back porch, broke threw the screen to get in, have no idea what was in there for him to get to but he did it. I debated long and hard about putting my gp in the family room because even though the animals could not get threw a sliding glass door I would still not want some cat or any animal for that matter to be sitting there staring at my fur-baby like he is lunch. He is now back in my room on a but no longer on the floor, but instead on a table that takes up most of the right side of my room. I also took offense to being called hard-headed just because I am a member of this site. And Great offense in the comment about Americans that will believe anything that was written or said. I also do not understand why someone would post anything to this site that they know will get great heat on its subject and also why join a website if YOU think you know better the anyone here. Go make your own website then. Write what ever you want, see who believe you, find out where they are from then you will see that EVERYONE from EVERYWHERE has the means to believe ANYTHING that you keep pointing out that we AMERICANS do. I believe that was very judgmental of you, and you say we are the judgmental ones.

blackarrow
09-04-09, 05:00 am
This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge. . . . And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.


Aw, shucks, you're right. I came on here hoping to be bestest buddies with someone who would say I'm a judgmental bloody immature whinging pathetic cage-preaching ignorant American with a stupid breakable cage thingie!

I hope you see a doc for that cough, it seems to be getting worse. Perhaps it's URI that's making you seem so grouchy?

VoodooJoint
09-04-09, 05:36 am
Silkiepoo's racial slurs and hate propaganda have earned her an infraction. That infraction, added to others she had earned, now equal over 5 points which has automatically changed her status to Cavy Caged. She now has to have all of her posts pre-approved by a mod before they will appear on the board.

It takes a disturbed mind to make blanket statements about an entire nationality of people and we do not tolerate that kind of hate and small mindedness on this board.

Wodentoad
09-04-09, 06:04 am
Coyotes are a concern in Southern California, thus a concern for the original poster, but there are also snakes. England has a critter (that's southern diminutive colloquial for "creature.") called a Gray Rat Snake. It eats rats, birds, and small mammals... you know, like Guinea Pigs. There is also the Adder, a venomous snake, whose territory shrinks with the expansion of humans. Think they get hungry now and again? They'll eat anything, eggs, frogs, birds, mammals... you know, like Guinea Pigs. Also mentioned were cats and dogs who could think of the furries as a lovely snack. (My cat used to take down wild rabbits HIS size.) And worse, people who will steal anything that can be seen as valuable... you know, like Guinea Pigs.

Coyotes have a special place in the American mindset because they are not just wild dogs, but they are clever, intelligent, predatory animals with the ability to reason and out think traps, and their range is over a large swath of the country. Snakes however, are prevalent across the world, and are not only cunning, but they can climb and access pretty much anywhere their prey can. A small hole is all it takes.

CavyMama
09-04-09, 06:14 am
If you are wondering why I and SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE are against Americans. Hence about 34 people said 'coyotes'll get your piggies if they're outside.'

Cough.

We don't get coyotes here.
Ne comprenez-vous?
Yeah and by the way. I don't give a if your family is Vietnamese Maple. You were born there you're an American.

Coyotes are one type of predator. I believe most of the time, people were speaking in generality as in-these are one of a type of predator that lives outside (I don't know of any that live INside) that could get at a pig living outside. Some people have them in their area and some people don't.

People mentioned other predators as well: cats (I THINK they have cats in England, right?), birds (birds in England too?), etc but go ahead and pick out the bits and pieces that suit your purpose and twist them to state your case.

And you think American's are self-centered?? Is it not self-centered to assume we were referring to England rather than the OP when we said coyotes??

MapleSyrup
09-04-09, 07:26 am
Silkiepoo's racial slurs and hate propaganda have earned her an infraction. That infraction, added to others she had earned, now equal over 5 points which has automatically changed her status to Cavy Caged. She now has to have all of her posts pre-approved by a mod before they will appear on the board.

It takes a disturbed mind to make blanket statements about an entire nationality of people and we do not tolerate that kind of hate and small mindedness on this board.

Thank You VoodooJoint for cavy caging her. I hope that she will learn her lesson. I don't get why she made such racest comment of a nationality. I never seen Coyotyes in my neighborhood, but when I went to California, I've seen one. Geez... So much drama can exist in a guinea pig forum....

mamazul
09-04-09, 09:35 am
I am not American but I also took offense by the comments about Americans. Stupid people can be found in any country... I assume the mods on this forum are American, and all though I sometimes disagree about the way they respond to posters, I highly appreciate their willingness to share their knowledge. They all know a lot more about guinea pigs than me (and probably most members of this forum), they are willing to spend their time educating others, and this they should be thanked for. Nationality, of course, says nothing about someones intelligence. Don't turn to stereotyping and offensive comments when you run out of arguments.

RoarRoarRosie
09-06-09, 12:31 am
Okay, I see in the first few pages people were being quite nasty to the whole outdoor scenario. Settle down a bit. I don't agree with the outdoor living arrangements for guineas but I myself have 2 guineas who HAVE to live outdoors, now don't pick an argument with me about it. I'm not 100% happy with it but I will work around it and as I have saved to kittens who are in my care which is another hazard. I am also building a much larger guinea pig cage with all requirements and to make sure my guineas are secure, safe and snugg in their new home to be.

On a daily basis when I arrive home from school I spend hours with them inside, sitting on my lap and giving them a little run around whereever they can (and yes I piggy proof the room). I do that for as long as I can 3-4 hours and feed them, check for anything odd, make sure the cage is clean etc etc, I usually make sure the cage is secure as much as it can be and check on them in the mornings.

As you can see the only problem with outdoor living for guineas is the safety from predators, humans..in my area.. I doubt because I don't live in TOWN TOWN. Also tempreture; tip: During hot days whilst i'm at school I always freeze a couple of water bottles and put them in the cage as well as making sure there is plenty of water to get access to and making sure they can get cool during the day. On colder days giving them something to snug into and lots of hay to help insulate in their house* gives relief until i get home to check up on them again.

The only way a piggy can be forgotton is by lack of care and attention. To maria? (person who started this thread) I strongly reccommed during every spare time you get (ie. before and after school/before bedtime/after dinner etc) check up on them, also try and give them time indoors to run around; I know you said you're building a bigger cage for them to run around in but also give them a new place to wonder around. Even when you're watching tv, being on the computer, reading, doing homework bring them in to sit on your lap or whatever and that gives you more bonding time. There will ALWAYS be risks of predators with ANY ANIMAL. Dogs, cats, horses, cows, sheep, rabbits and guineas. Indoor OR out. And with the tempreture I'm sure you'll be informed on when it's going to rain or whatnot.. and you'll be with your guineas or outside most/some of the time so you'll take notice.

ae_xx
09-06-09, 10:15 am
I would just like to point out that I am from Wales (next to england ;)) and I keep my guinea pigs indoor most of the year,
If its warm and sunny, they get put out in a hutch with an attatched run.

I would like to further add, that I am NOT a breeder, I do care about my guinea pigs and most petshops near me actually care for their animals.

So from now on, don't say anything without any evidence! ( and thats for both sides of the arguement)

By the way, I think that if a hutch is kept in a garage/shed int he winter, and is insulated and rain proofed, why not keep them outside ? Aslong as they're well looked after, what has it got to do with anyone ?

Ly&Pigs
09-07-09, 01:47 pm
I want to say something to EVERYONE. Unless your name is in bold green to signify that you are an admin or moderator, you don't get to dictate the rules on threads.

2PiggiesEP
09-07-09, 02:07 pm
Give the pigs back and dont buy anymore if you cant take care of them!

DalesLass
09-07-09, 02:37 pm
England has a critter (that's southern diminutive colloquial for "creature.") called a Gray Rat Snake. It eats rats, birds, and small mammals... you know, like Guinea Pigs.

Please stop being silly. We have nothing of the sort here, check your facts


There is also the Adder, a venomous snake ........, they get hungry now and again? They'll eat anything...... like Guinea Pigs.

Nonsense.
Besides, adders (vipers) are so rare in UK that they are protected by LAW. It is a criminal offence to harm one.
Please don't invent predators that we do not have.

rabbitsncavyluv
09-07-09, 02:47 pm
We don't advocate outdoor housing here period. Just because you are housing them outdoors does not make it okay. Frozen water bottles are not a sufficient cooling system.

Fudgenrolo
09-07-09, 02:52 pm
We do have cats though. Lots of cats. No matter what I do to keep them off my back garden they come back again and again......it really annoys me but they do!

Plus there are humans - nasty humans. A few years ago a friend of mine had her pair of guinea pigs including their cage stolen from right outside their back door. They never heard about what happened to them. It wasn't a particularly rough area either. (Does this class as evidence?):sad:

Oh and adders are in fact getting more common. Someone recently posted on a different forum I go on about her concern for her new puppy because she had seen an adder on her back garden and knew that they were very common in her area.

Regardless of anything anyone says if you want to keep guinea pigs outside you will justify it every which way so I guess we're wasting our energy typing. Reasonable people who are willing to change have the facts throughout the thread to consider and there is certainly plenty of convincing information on here to make you think. If you read all this and stubbornly go on believing you are right in your decision to keep your 'pigs outside then I guess nothing will convince you otherwise.

The weather last week here in good old England has been horrible. I had a job even getting my washing dry outside as there have been frequent showers, strong winds, cold weather and even thunder and lightning. If you're happy for your 'pigs to be out in all that *plus* you're happy to sit out there in it with them then what can I say? Personally; sat in my pet room cleaning out my current animals in the dry, cosy house watching the torrential rain pouring down the street outside like a river I couldn't see any advantage whatsover in having any of my animals outside.

Wodentoad
09-07-09, 03:21 pm
An excellent list of snakes, native and non-native to England can be found here (http://www.euroherp.com/species.php?sp=188). The problem with using local names means that they may not be familiar to someone else. Luckily this site provides scientific names and pretty pictures of the scaled fiends.

There may not be snakes in Ireland, but there certainly are in England.

Enjoy... I know my phobia and I did. :sick:

DalesLass
09-07-09, 04:01 pm
The problem with using local names means that they may not be familiar to someone else.

Precisely. Europe is a large continent with very varied climate and fauna. We do NOT have anything resembling a Grey Rat Snake in UK.
We have three species only; viper, grass snake and smooth snake.

princesspoppy
09-07-09, 04:27 pm
There may not be snakes in Ireland, but there certainly are in England.

:) Only in the zoo. Thank god St.Patrick took them all away.

Paula
09-10-09, 04:07 pm
We have three species only; viper, grass snake and smooth snake.And by all means, they certainly wouldn't pose any threat to a caged animal living outdoors, now would they?

littlewheekypig
09-10-09, 04:40 pm
All three of those snakes would not think twice about eating a pig if they were big enough or the pigs were small or sick. Even snakes that people consider harmless still eat rodents, weather people realize it or not. I live in western NY and we have many many types of snakes, and even the smallest of garter snake would not even think twice about devouring a mouse. I've caught some outside my house that were at least three feet long. Garter snakes are considered harmless here, they don't even have real teeth.

Paula
09-10-09, 05:03 pm
All three of those snakes would not think twice about eating a pig if they were big enough or the pigs were small or sick.The pigs wouldn't necessarily have to be small or sick, really. They'd be stuck in a cage with no means of escape, making them very easy prey for snakes or other predators.

Which is why dismissing them as an actual threat because they are not the gray rat snake or an adder is absurd.

On the other hand, there wouldn't be any cause for worry at all over the type of snake that may or may not be present if the were housed indoors, would there?

DalesLass
09-10-09, 05:08 pm
And by all means, they certainly wouldn't pose any threat to a caged animal living outdoors, now would they? No they wouldn't.


All three of those snakes would not think twice about eating a pig if they were big enough or the pigs were small or sick. I know absolutely nothing about the snakes of USA. I don't pretend that I do. Perhaps you don't know much about snakes in UK.

There may be reasons for not keeping pigs outdoors in UK but the risk of snakes just isn't one of them.

vicky2
09-10-09, 05:10 pm
Too bad you didn't realize the stray cats and/or dogs with nails and claws.

EDIT: No matter where you live, people will release their pet snakes once they get "too big", like boa constrictors for example. These, CAN swallow your Guinea Pigs whole.

Paula
09-10-09, 05:33 pm
No they wouldn't.All of these snakes eat small rodents and insects. It may not be likely that they'd eat a guinea pig, but it's certainly possible.


I know absolutely nothing about the snakes of USA. I don't pretend that I do. Perhaps you don't know much about snakes in UK.I'm not pretending anything. But I don't need to be an ophiologist to know that snakes are carnivorous predators that most certainly could attack and eat a guinea pig if presented the opportunity.

littlewheekypig
09-10-09, 07:47 pm
I wasn't pretending to know about the snakes in the UK even though there are many snakes there that are considered introduced species. They may not be as common and wouldn't be listed as living there because they aren't supposed to. What I do know about snakes I have learned from volunteering for the DEC and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which I am currently employed by as a biology intern for going on 4 years,and I am studying to be a field biologist.

RoarRoarRosie
09-11-09, 03:25 am
I suggest for people who can't (under any circumstance, like myself being a child and my parents not allowing the guineas to be kept inside; and i do argue fair enough points and i still do so don't rave and rant at me) keep their Cavies inside (which is preferable) you can keep them outside but keeping them iside will ensure you're guinea pigs is not exposed to extreme tempretures and both you and you're guinea will get more enjoyment out of interacting with each other at any time of the day + night.

"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.

And in the hotter days/seasons it's reccommended that you negotiate to keep them indoors for the period of time? .. (maybe that'll lead to you keeping them indoors all year round ;) ) as it will prevent your cavy from getting heat-stroke.

pigsforlife
09-11-09, 03:41 am
"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.


I have seen many people try to compare domestic guinea pigs to their wild cousins. I have to say, it is an old excuse now. Domestic guinea pigs are NOTHING like their wild cousins. They have totally different diets (hay, veggies, pellets compared to grass and other low lying forages) for one.

If guinea pigs could live outside successfully than this website would not be advocating otherwise. But the fact of the matter is, they will not survive or at least won't live as long with everything stacked against them (weather, predators, lack of attention) outside. Many experienced exotic vets have backed this up - my vet is one of them. Heck, even the "normal" after hours vet knew that guinea pigs should not be kept outside.

Facts;
- There are predators everywhere, so don't bury your head in the sand and pretend there is not
- The weather is uncontrollable and often erratic. I have seen a pig (neighbour who kept her pig outside despite me trying to tell her otherwise) die as a result of heat stroke. The cold in winter can easily cause stress and result in illness.
- Outside they are not part of the family. They do not recieve as much attention which can lead to you missing a potentially fatal illness.

DalesLass
09-11-09, 05:29 am
there are many snakes there that are considered introduced species. They may not be as common and wouldn't be listed as living there because they aren't supposed to.

In UK we take the potential invasion of non-native species extremely seriously. This is a link to the publication by Natural England (Government Advisory body) about the distribution and threat posed by non-native species.
NECR009 - Horizon scanning for new invasive non-native animal species in England (http://naturalengland.etraderstores.com/NaturalEnglandShop/product.aspx?ProductID=260f0d5f-eefe-4b5c-9051-92d43b7456c1)
(Two links at bottom of page; very detailed documents)

Yes, of course it includes Boas, Pythons and any other odd things that people may choose to keep as pets. Understandably then, they are on the ’watch’ list.
To put it in perspective the ‘Rat Snake’ Elaphe spp is in the same category 0.5 Invasion Stage in England as the Capybara. Not so many of those about unless you live within a few yards of the perimeter fence of a zoo.

If we are looking for FACTS regarding threats to outdoor pets lets a) stick to facts b) accept that native species and their population/distribution is not the same in each country.

If you tell people in UK that they should not keep their guinea pigs outdoors because of the threat of snakes they may begin to wonder about the validity of other information on the forum.

CavyMama
09-11-09, 05:47 am
"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.

The climate of the Andes can vary depending on the location. There are actually 3 separate sections that have very different weather. Cavies came from a warm climate, not cold. Guinea pigs today are a far different creature than their ancestors, in climate tolerance and in diet.

Also, the secretary of the NSW Cavy Club can hardly be quoted as an expert. The NSW Cavy Club also advocates breeding and showing of guinea pigs. So they may not exactly be your go-to source for reliable information.

By using climate as your sole argument for keeping them outside, ignores the other dangers. Temperature extremes - even in a relatively mild climate, the temps can fluctuate. Predators - it's not responsible to keep any animal outside in a cage where they have nowhere to hide from an animal that wants to get to them.

CavyMama
09-11-09, 06:03 am
To put it in perspective the ‘Rat Snake’ Elaphe spp is in the same category 0.5 Invasion Stage in England as the Capybara. Not so many of those about unless you live within a few yards of the perimeter fence of a zoo.

If we are looking for FACTS regarding threats to outdoor pets lets a) stick to facts b) accept that native species and their population/distribution is not the same in each country.

If you tell people in UK that they should not keep their guinea pigs outdoors because of the threat of snakes they may begin to wonder about the validity of other information on the forum.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that just because there aren't as many of them around, they don't pose a threat to an outdoor-caged animal? That because there aren't as many, they take a look at a caged guinea pig and think, "Hmmm I would instinctually, want to attack that vulnerable animal because it would be yummy and easy prey but the official word is that there aren't that many of me so...I'll pass on the snack"

I understand that you mean that because of the lower populations of these snakes, the chances of one coming upon a guinea pig is slight but that does not make the danger of the situation if it DOES happen, any less.

Also, I'm pretty sure that telling people in the UK about the dangers of snakes to outdoor guinea pigs, will not invalidate their confidence of the information on this forum. I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the UK members on this forum.

Wodentoad
09-11-09, 06:46 am
Okay, time for me to raise my hand to draw fire. I am the one who mentioned snakes because I have a phobia of them. I also live in an area where they are a concern. If you're going to start yelling at people for mentioning the dangers, at least blame the person who put out the information. The Grey Rat Snake mentioned was a MISTAKE, which I freely admit (this is the second time) while researching the Smooth Snake, which you will find looks similar and has a similar diet. in other words, one man's Smooth Snake is another man's Grey Rat Snake. This is why we have scientific naming conventions.

Snakes ARE a valid point in about 85% of the world, including England. In a previous post I linked to several species of snake that live in England, and therefore must also find food. Guinea Pigs outside are a buffet under glass, or whatever you use to "protect" them. The reason I mentioned them at all was because the original poster claimed to live in a Travel Brochure of SoCal and had decided to ignore the fact that there are coyotes, a cunning, intelligent predator, several people mentioned this, and then someone else got up in arms, so I thought I could add in yet another wild predator, assuming that you don't live in Angel City, or Mayberry, or Camelot where there is no crime. (Sorry British friends, I could not think of a better imaginary crime-less city for you.)

And I added that snakes are also a cunning predator, and require very little to find and eat a family pet. I nearly lost an adolescent German Shepard to a Rattler. What eventually killed my beloved family pet? A MAN with antifreeze. Why? God and the Devil only know. So if you want to get angry with me over whether you have Cavy-Eating snakes, get mad at ME.

But before you start throwing stones, I will say this: far from housecats, mice, rats, ticks, mosquitoes, weather, snakes, coyotes, hawks, foxes, dragons, inter-dimentional portals to another land, disease, escape, and such like that: there is one predator, one cunning, intelligent, EVIL predator who has been known to kill or steal guinea pigs for no other purpose than causing harm: Man. Tell me that men by omission or commission are not a danger to ANY outdoor pet. Can you?

Furthermore, and I apologize for the length of this post, taking culpability sometimes requires a verbose response, but for those of you who think DOMESTIC means the same as WILD, do you know that the original "Guinea Pig" from which ours are descended no longer exists? Let me put it to you this way, and nothing said on the intelligence of Guinea pigs, but this is merely a comparison between wild and domestic: Take the Turkey.

The wild turkey is a noble creature that Benjamin Franklin would have put on our State Seal if not our Flag. They are far more intelligent than their domestic cousins, and here is the example. Until they are somewhat older, Domestic Turkeys live sheltered lives. Literally. They don't know about the rain, so when they first feel water on their heads, they can fling themselves about convinced that they are drowning. This can cause them to hurt themselves or other turkeys. They would not survive in the wild, and they are normally kept outside. Wild Guinea pigs no longer exist, but that has nothing to do with their domesticated cousins who, like the domestic turkey, are not able to withstand the natural world without the protections of the ones who care for them. Us. This is why animal welfare groups including shelters and rescues will NOT adopt to people with outside cages. Period. Dot.

You still want to be prissy and perfect because I mis-named a snake? Get a life and a better cause. If you just can't drop it or deal, then you may have more problems than a frank, serious discussion of outdoor predators can help you with.

VoodooJoint
09-11-09, 07:33 am
Why are people bothering to debate snakes? Honestly, snakes are the least of your worries. I live in a subtropic area where there are loads of snakes both venomous and constrictor, natural and introduced. However, they would be the least of my worries if I was irresponsible enough to house my small animals outdoors.

As I've said before, the predator I would most fear is HUMANS.

Have you got humans living near you? Yes? Then you have the #1 cause of small (owned) animal injury and death in your area.*

How about dogs and cats? Yes? Then you also have predator #2.

What is #3, well that's a toss up between insects and wild rodents (that spread disease, cause infection and injury and can have venom). I dare you to find a livable habitat that doesn't have insects and rodents.

Since it seems to me ALL areas where you are going to have small animals housed outside have these 3 top predators/injurers of small animals living nearby then you have a little canned hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canned_hunt) going on in your outdoor hutch or shed.

Housing outside is irresponsible and neglectful. I don't care how much you rationalize it, what color you paint it, whether or not someone or something is "forcing" you to do it or how luxurious you make the enclosure the fact is that YOU will not live in those same conditions as your animals. THEREFORE you are subjecting them to substandard care.

*(please note that I may have mixed up the exact order of threat they pose but the fact remains that I did list the 3 largest (living) threats)

Paula
09-11-09, 07:39 am
I suggest for people who can't (under any circumstance, like myself being a child and my parents not allowing the guineas to be kept inside; and i do argue fair enough points and i still do so don't rave and rant at me) keep their Cavies inside (which is preferable) you can keep them outside ...You do not argue "fair enough" points. You argue points that, to you, justify keeping your guinea pigs outside, when the reality is you're keeping them outside for purely selfish reasons that serve your own convenience rather than their actual needs.

If you can't keep the animals indoors, where they are safe from harm and can be treated as a part of your family, you shouldn't have them at all. Period.


"Cavies are far more tolerant to the cold as they originated from a cold climate in the Andes" says Nikki, secretary of the NSW Cavy Club.You're seriously hoping that by quoting the secretary of a breeding club you might strengthen your argument and persuade us to your side? Yeah, I'm sure it seems fine to them to keep a guinea pig outdoors. They are, after all, breeding them. What do they care if they're uncomfortable or sick or have to face harsh weather conditions or predators? If they die, they can just breed more to replace them.

VoodooJoint
09-11-09, 07:46 am
I forgot to add:

Please look at this post http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/407689-post39.html in there are links to pictures of wild guinea pigs (hopefully they still work). Please note how extremely different they are from what we care for as pets. The animals in our care are not wild, are nothing like their wild cousins and do not have the same tolerances and instincts as their wild cousins.

Even if they did, as I've said before, wild guinea pigs only have an average lifespan of about 1 year. That is what is natural and normal for them. Is that acceptable for your pets?

Fellie
12-04-09, 07:50 am
Just because they're outside doesn't mean they're not part of your family, my family spend 80 % of our time outside, with only 20% for sleeping. Just because they are in an outside cage does not mean that you're not going to get them out and handle them, thats all just assumptions. Mine get 1 hour floor time in the morning and 1 hour in the evening on weekends and days off school, and 2 hours in the evening if i am at school. I'm with them during all their floor time, and my parents often join me.

Just because they live outside doesn't mean they don't go inside at all. I often watch movies with mine in my bedroom or even just sit reading a book while stroking them.

Ziggy and Iggy also have long haired coats, i don't leave them and let it get all matted because they live outside, i spend the time to groom them daily, yet another team building experience.


wild guinea pigs only have an average lifespan of about 1 year.

Those wild guinea pigs didn't have safe housing and devoted owners and a dog willing to protect them. The ones i have living outside do have all these things and have been prospering.

pigs4us
05-31-10, 08:59 pm
Wow definately an interesting thread. What works for one does not work for all & vice versa. Obviously piggies can adapt to situations and be housed differently. Of course each individual has their own values on which way of life is acceptable. Basically it is the same as allowing a dog or cat to live outside 24/7. See, I own 3 dogs and suprisingly enough I would NEVER allow them to live an outdoor life. I also own a barn (with three horses) we have 4 barn cats that are allowed to come into the house for short periods-but they mainly live outdoors. I am ok with them living outdoors and feel that they are safe because they have the garage, barn and "cat sense" to take care of them. My kitties are 7 and 6 years of age and (knock on wood) are very healthy happy kitties that have been with us since they were kittens.

My point--I know MANY people who are outraged at the thought of outdoor cats. I also know MANY people who would never let their dogs in the house. Who is to say? What works for one will not work for everyone.

Bamysmum
05-31-10, 10:07 pm
I love guinea pigs, and I have done a lot of research on them. And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.

I work full time and I spend hours each day with my guineas. When I get home from work they have my full attention and are tickeled / cuddled / offered food / cleaned out from 6 to 11pm.

I love the weekends for giving me even more time with them. Please do not underestimate the level of attention indoor piggies get. In our home they are at the centre of our household and located as such.

PiggyKat
05-31-10, 10:25 pm
I love guinea pigs, and I have done a lot of research on them. And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.



I find that offensive. Mostly because what is wrong with spending hours with my pigs? They sit in my room, and like another member said here, they watch TV with me and watch me with my everyday activities. I kiss them before I go to work and snuggle with them before bed. I could not even imagine sending my pigs outside. I didn't even like having my 100lbs black lab outside at night! Why would I let my 2 lbs pig be outside for a long period of time.
Also if you did research then why is outside the best option you could find? I live in a "good" neighborhood and I could never trust that my pigs couldn't get stolen or worse escape or get loose.
I know you think you are doing what is right, and the vet saying that it is going to be ok makes you feel empowered but would you sleep outside? I mean, we could spend our whole lives outside. I mean we are descended from apes and they live outside so we could do it right?
If you love your animals you wouldn't let them stay outside like that, especially ones who are so helpless. At least a dog has size(sometimes) and teeth, cats too. Rabbits and pigs are so vulnerable to both the weather and the hazards or wild and domesticated animals.
Oh and the American thing....I'll let that slide.
Ok that is my 2 cents.

shuvit
06-01-10, 02:26 am
I live in Durban South Africa.

It is a pretty hot and humid place. When I first got my piggies I kept them inside due to recommendations on this site and others. When I had arrived home after work one day, I realised the pigs had overheated from being in my flat on an average Durban hot day. I thought they had died!

I now keep them outside on my patio. It is a 2nd floor apartment and well sheltered. They have been there for a year. They seem to be very happy, popcorning and relaxing and wheaking at mealtimes etc etc etc. They have bricks in their cage that they love to lay on in the heat of the day.

Our place is small enough with glass sliding doors so whilst watching TV I talk and whistle to them and they look at me through the glass and wheak back.

It all depends on you situation.

Paula
06-01-10, 07:19 am
Wow definately an interesting thread. What works for one does not work for all & vice versa. Obviously piggies can adapt to situations and be housed differently.No one's disputed that they can live outside. It's a matter of whether or not they should. Animals that live outside face a wide variety of threats that their indoor counterparts never even know about. There are predators to threaten them; there's the weather that no matter where you live can change quite quickly and quite drastically as well. There's also the fact that animals that live outside tend not to get the same level of attention and care as those who live inside and for that reason, illnesses tend not to be noticed until the situation is dire and isn't as easily remedied because it wasn't caught early enough, whereas an attendant owner who kept his pets inside would likely have noticed long before it progressed too far.


Of course each individual has their own values on which way of life is acceptable.It's less an individual's "own values" than it is what an individual is willing to do - or not do - for his own convenience. In the time I've been here I've seen one, a single one outdoor environment that's come close to approaching adequacy. And in that case the owner had spent countless hours making it predator safe, making sure her pigs were protected from the elements, etc. Most owners who want them housed outside rather than in aren't willing to do the work it would take to making an outdoor environment safe and healthy. In most cases, it's not possible to make an outdoor home appropriate and certainly the chicken wire pen you described in a previous post doesn't qualify.


Basically it is the same as allowing a dog or cat to live outside 24/7. See, I own 3 dogs and suprisingly enough I would NEVER allow them to live an outdoor life.Why are your dogs deserving of a safe, healthy home environment while you don't feel your cats or guinea pigs are? Do you understand that outdoor cats live drastically shorter lives than those that live inside?


I also own a barn (with three horses) we have 4 barn cats that are allowed to come into the house for short periods-but they mainly live outdoors. I am ok with them living outdoors and feel that they are safe because they have the garage, barn and "cat sense" to take care of them. My kitties are 7 and 6 years of age and (knock on wood) are very healthy happy kitties that have been with us since they were kittens.You're likely "okay" with them living outdoors because it's what's easiest and most convenient for you and because you've been able to convince yourself it's healthy and safe for them because of their "cat sense."

I have a barn too (with five horses) and while I don't have any problem with the feral cats that have made their home there (which I've also spent countless dollars and hours trapping and spaying/neutering), I would never, ever acquire a cat with the intention of relegating him/her to a live outside, facing threats from other cats, animals, people, diseases, cars, and the list goes on and on. My own cat is indoor only because I want him to live the longest, healthiest life possible. Making him live outside would achieve the exact opposite.


My point--I know MANY people who are outraged at the thought of outdoor cats. I also know MANY people who would never let their dogs in the house. Who is to say? What works for one will not work for everyone.It comes down not to "what works for one will not work for everyone." Instead, it comes down to what's convenient and preferable for the owner; and often, it's done without any consideration to the true well being of the animals involved. Sadly.

gwrulz
06-01-10, 07:20 am
WOW! 9 months and this thread is still going. When I first thought about getting cavies, I had thought about outdoors, but nixed that idea because I did the research and found that wet ground would be bad for them, parasites would be a daily issue, and of course predators (my cat and dogs most likely). So I looked at indoor cages and quickly found out that store bought was taboo due to size. After building my own out of coraplast I chucked it and went for the biggest wading pool available. That works great for a couple of piggies, but I am still looking for more room.

Now the point to this long ramble - I really advocate the idea of each potential cavy owner/rescuer to due research before purchase/adoption/rescue. I myself don't trust any website exclusively, but when multiple websites and testimonials state "no" to outside, then I tend to take that advice. But... many lurkers may still be housing outside. I know of the breeders I researched only 2 out of the 7 housed them in their own home - and one of them had her caviery in the basement (radon gas?). So the majority of breeders house outside? I don't know that for sure. Do the majority of owners/rescuers treat their dependent piggies with the quality care that most of this forum does? I don't think so. I think that "most" people don't do any research beyond stopping into the pet store (boo!). And by attacking a person instead of teaching that person, some of you may have done more harm than good?

We all mean well, but may want to give our experience instead of antagonising the person(s). I have lurked here since late 2009, and all my research came from breeders and those forum members that have taken the time to post your experiences (both good and bad) to assist me from making the same mistake for my cavies. For that I thank you all.

Jennicat
06-01-10, 11:07 am
See, I own 3 dogs and suprisingly enough I would NEVER allow them to live an outdoor life. I also own a barn (with three horses) we have 4 barn cats that are allowed to come into the house for short periods-but they mainly live outdoors. I am ok with them living outdoors and feel that they are safe because they have the garage, barn and "cat sense" to take care of them. My kitties are 7 and 6 years of age and (knock on wood) are very healthy happy kitties that have been with us since they were kittens.

My point--I know MANY people who are outraged at the thought of outdoor cats. I also know MANY people who would never let their dogs in the house. Who is to say? What works for one will not work for everyone.

I am outraged at the thought of outdoor cats because of the slaughter they cause among wildlife. They are an unnatural predator which has an unnatural advantage over the wild animals. They often merely wound these animals, leaving them to die from bacterial infections.

Though I had always KNOWN about the problems associated with cats and wildlife, I have become involved in rehabilitation transport this year, and the sheer volume of mangled, orphaned, and injured animals from selfish people who want their cats to LIVE FREE is astounding.

Because of the bacterial nature of a cat's mouth, even a nick to a wild bird or mammal can be deadly.