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ChelleLovesPigs
10-11-06, 04:30 am
I was wondering if it is ok to give cavys canned veggies? Ive been wondering about this for the longest time and i received some wonderful information from you guys about a couple other questions I had, So i figured id give this one a shot too! thanks

cookie_gal
10-11-06, 04:32 am
No, they're no good sadly. They have preservatives in them, lots of salt and sugar and the vitamin levels aren't as good as fresh ones.

ChelleLovesPigs
10-11-06, 04:48 am
Thank you cookie, That is exactly what I needed to know. :D

cookie_gal
10-11-06, 05:04 am
Glad I could help, I know it would be so much easier if we could feed canned and frozen veggies, especially in the winter months but they are worthless and unhealthy.

When companies stop messing about with our food but as said they need presevatives to stop them going off but fresh is always better anyway!

wpgcavylovers
10-11-06, 05:43 am
What about the bags of frozen veggies? Are they ok?

VoodooJoint
10-11-06, 08:04 am
No canned, no frozen, no cooked veggies. Only feed fresh. The only exception is if you are handfeeding a sick GP that needs vegetarian baby food mixed into it's mash to encourage eating.

Coopdog
10-11-06, 08:43 am
Why not frozen if they contain no added ingredients? Louise loves thawed peas.

VoodooJoint
10-11-06, 08:53 am
Frozen veggies are precooked or parboiled. They lose nutrition, lack natural enzymes and can upset an herbavore's system as it is not designed or prepared to digest food that has been altered by heat and missing the essential enzymes necessary to good health and digestion. Just because they like it does not mean it is good for them.

rshevin
10-11-06, 09:09 pm
Ah, one of the few exceptions is actually green (English) peas. They freeze so well that they are simply flash frozen fresh. I give my piggie the occasional frozen pea when I'm having them myself, as a little pea-sicle treat (yes, he eats them frozen, he also will knaw on icecubes, strange pig). Definately not for staple feeding though.

Even if you were to freeze your own spinach, ever seen how icky it looks when it thaws? Blech. Most of the good pig veggies aren't available frozen anyway. But definately no canned. I won't even eat those myself. They're in my hurricane box and shall remain there until they spoil so, forever.

"Just because they like it does not mean it's good for them."
Aye. Says me who eats Twinkies and Fritos with embarassment.

VoodooJoint
10-11-06, 09:26 pm
I give my piggie the occasional frozen pea when I'm having them myself, as a little pea-sicle treat Please don't give your GP frozen peas. They are just the right size to choke to death on.


Even if you were to freeze your own spinach, ever seen how icky it looks when it thaws?It's not just heat that cooks fruits and veggies, freezing does it too. It breaks down the cellular make-up and kills the good live enzymes. Essencially, freezing "cooks" food too.

cavyinhawaii
10-12-06, 12:04 am
Mine eat frozen bell peppers everyday.
You can buy them fresh cut them up and freeze them or buy them in a bag.

weta!
10-12-06, 02:09 am
Mine love defrosted flash-frozen peas. The quality is reputed to be better than fresh peas as they are frozen close to where they are grown, rather than deteriorate while they travel to markets.

Percy's Mom
10-12-06, 07:50 am
Vegetables are not frozen raw. They are almost always blanched first and while that might make the peas lovely and pretty, it still partially cooks them and removes a good deal of the vitamins from them. Even if they were not blanched, the freezing and thawing can cause a lot of the nutrients to leech out of them. Peas are quite a starchy vegetable and not really the best to give pigs anyway.

The same generally happens with peppers. The ones purchased already frozen in the store have usually been blanched first to keep their color, and cutting and freezing them yourself typically leads to very wet, slight mushy peppers. The amount of water in a cut pepper will cause them to crystalize slightly when frozen, and those crystals will cause the peppers to soften considerably. Do you ever see liquid the color of the pepper leaking from the peppers when you thaw them? That's your vitamins going down the drain. Either commerically or home frozen peppers are good for sauteeing and using as a flavoring in recipes for humans, but not really beneficial for guinea pigs.

Keep your veggies fresh and completely raw.

Slave to the Wheek
10-12-06, 10:54 am
It's not just heat that cooks fruits and veggies, freezing does it too. It breaks down the cellular make-up and kills the good live enzymes. Essencially, freezing "cooks" food too.

Entire books are written on this very subject.
I think the key issue is the breakdown of enzymes, this is something that is so important to good gastric health. It also reduces the Vit C. content of frozen foods by 25%.

If you google the topic you'll find more than you ever wanted to know about it. Here are a couple I found.

How nutritious are commercially frozen vegetables compared to fresh vegetables? (http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/Food_Facts/FAQ/frozen_freshveg_faq.asp)

Freezing Fruits and Vegetables (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0555.html) (190 pages of fun)
frozen food cell walls enzymes - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=frozen+food++cell+walls+enzymes&btnG=Search)

weta!
10-12-06, 01:27 pm
Most frozen veggies taste awful if eaten uncooked - and sometimes even once they are cooked, and if I won't eat them myself, nor should my boys. But my boys love peas, and since fresh peas have such a short season, they get defrosted peas as an occasional treat.

Coopdog
10-12-06, 01:39 pm
The peas are great! My kids always wanted a cup of frozen ones to snack on while dinner was cooking.

Kealie78
05-15-07, 07:15 pm
My hub tried this once (glares at him) when I was sick. The piggies used the thawed veggies as toys and then threw them around! You could see the "yuk" distain in their eyes..haha But, I can see why frozen peas might be appealing to some, but they are right, they lose a lot of nutrients in freezing and thawing.

Popcorn's pet
05-25-07, 08:55 am
Haha, I tried to feed Popcorn frozen (cooked) kale once - and only once. I had read that kale was one veggie that was better served cooked or something. Since I had some in the freezer, I decided to try it out and see if he liked it.

He is a begger, and will wheek to high heavens when he knows it's mealtime, standing on his back legs, little front paws on the bars of the cage. When I put the bowl of kale in the cage, he rushed over to it... and just stared at it. Then he looked up at me, and I could swear he was giving me a confused face, like, "what the heck is this??" He ran over to me and started wheeking again for more food.

He didn't touch the kale all day. He prefers some veggies more than others, but even the ones that he seems to not care for will be eaten in a few hours. Not the kale. Not even one nibble.

I won't be trying that again!

buttons
10-21-07, 10:17 pm
I freeze raspberries from my garden, same with parsley. I understand that fresh is better but is it ok to feed them foods frozen from the garden, they are not cooked or anything. Would this be acceptable for the winter months?

Ly&Pigs
10-21-07, 10:19 pm
I freeze raspberries from my garden, same with parsley. I understand that fresh is better but is it ok to feed them foods frozen from the garden, they are not cooked or anything. Would this be acceptable for the winter months?

Not really because frozen veggies tend to lose some of their vitamin and mineral content when frozen. It's always better to feed fresh to ensure pigs get the proper vitamins and minerals they need.

Sugar
11-01-07, 11:56 pm
I have never fed my guiena pigs frozen or canned foods before, but recently I have been wondering if I can. Thanks for the topic, its helpful. Maybe it could be pinned???

rabbitsncavyluv
11-02-07, 12:18 am
It is already pinned. That's why it is up here as a sticky.

Guinea_Piggin
11-02-07, 12:10 pm
Before I knew better, I used to feed AJ 9RIP) frozen peas. He LOVED them! Would play with them for a bit until they thawed enough, then eat 'em and beg for more.

Don't worry, I know better now and my 2 current boys only get the freshest veg...nothing canned or frozen.

_xcavyloverx_
11-05-07, 01:14 am
Hey
I do feed my cavy fresh vegis evey now and then, but is this ok?

Ly&Pigs
11-05-07, 02:16 pm
Hey
I do feed my cavy fresh vegis evey now and then, but is this ok?

Fresh veggies are supposed to be fed daily, 1 cup of fresh veggies per pig. This thread is about canned/frozen veggies and really doesn't have anything to do with fresh veggies. Not sure why you asked that question here?

YuselinMaikel
11-05-07, 02:25 pm
What about veggies that comes in a bag? They come cut and everything are they good?

Ly&Pigs
11-05-07, 02:28 pm
Fresh bagged veggies are ok. Frozen ones, NO. There are salad mixes, carrots, etc. that come in bags and as long as they are fresh and you wash them before feeding them, it's ok.

YuselinMaikel
11-05-07, 02:31 pm
Fresh bagged veggies are ok. Frozen ones, NO. There are salad mixes, carrots, etc. that come in bags and as long as they are fresh and you wash them before feeding them, it's ok.

Well yes, the bag I buy from local stores is the one that brings lettuce, carrots, and etc in pieces, but they are not frozen they are organized with the fresh ones but in the bag. So I guess its ok. Thanks

danaspiggies
12-09-08, 11:50 am
I have read that you should not feed the piggies gourmet food this is all my piggies will eat I have purchased the pellets and they will not touch it. Any advice why I should not feed them the gourmet food? They also get plenty of hay and carrots daily.:?:

rabbitsncavyluv
12-09-08, 12:08 pm
It's too fattening and contains harmful ingredients. They can also choke on the seeds, nuts and colored bits.

danaspiggies
12-09-08, 01:04 pm
I understand what you are saying but my piggies have never choked on them. How do i get them to eat just the pellets:?:

Coopdog
12-09-08, 01:13 pm
Try a different brand of pellets. My pigs turned their noses up at a store brand, but gobbled up the Oxbow ones. Timothy pellets are best for mature pigs. Here's the website to locate an Oxbow supplier near you:

Oxbow Animal Health | Find Oxbow Products (http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/contact/find_products/store_locator)

Ly&Pigs
12-09-08, 05:12 pm
They also need a lot more veggies than just carrots daily. Carrots are more of a treat type veggie. They need lots of leafy greens. Please see the nutrition charts thread and the sample menu's thread. They are both sticky threads in the top of this forum section.

Pellets are the least part of the pigs diet if you are feeding them a proper hay and veggie diet. I'd try another brand. Oxbow and KM's are two of the best pellets out there.

Grisli
01-22-09, 09:24 am
Entire books are written on this very subject.
I think the key issue is the breakdown of enzymes, this is something that is so important to good gastric health.

There is a common misconception in the health food industry that we use the enzymes in plants for digestion. Enzymes are very species specific, and designed for a specific purpose. Each animal, plant, fungi etc. produces their own enzymes. Enzymes are a type of protein and are digested as such.

princesspoppy
09-20-09, 02:35 am
Vegetables contain enzymes which are slowed down but destroyed during freezing. If not inactivated, these enzymes can cause color and flavor changes as well as loss of nutrients. (Michigan State University) I wouldn't eat frozen veggies let alone fed them to my pigs.

DalesLass
09-20-09, 02:46 am
I don't think that you will find any!

Modern farming methods often involve freezing vegatables at the site where they are grown. The nutritional content is therefore higher than ‘fresh’ vegetables that have been transported some distance and then sat around on the shelf in a store for a few days. Also ‘fresh’ vegetables have often, depending on the season, been stored in chilled rooms for days (maybe weeks I believe?)

There is loss of ‘quality’ but that is subjective i.e. we don’t like soggy fruit/veg because it doesn’t have the customary ‘crunch’ or whatever. This is caused by ice crystal damage to the cells of the fruit/veg and has little to do with nutritional value. Pigs are able to make this subjective assessment for themselves too and might not eat the stuff, I don’t know.


BUT this isn’t the only issue. When frozen food is thawed the bacteria (which have only been dramatically slowed down not stopped by the low temperature) start to multiply very rapid. That’s part of the reason for ’Once thawed do not refreeze’ instructions on frozen foods.

It’s the bacterial content that I would be concerned about not the nutritional value. If you are looking for scientific evidence you may be best to read any literature on food spoilage and the bacteria that cause it (can’t think off the top of my head veg v. meat specific bacteria but I would guess that a gamut of nasty things E. Coli, Salmonella, botulism etc are possible on frozen veg). I’m fussy in the kitchen and I am really wary of frozen foods that are not for re-cooking i.e. fruits, ice cream cheesecakes etc.


So...my thoughts are that if you find any scientific evidence it will show that it is both safe and nutritious to offer pigs cooked frozen veg.

Would they eat it? Why would you want to feed it? Perhaps the answer would be 'in an emergency' - but my worry here is that it would be a sudden change in diet and that could cause problems in itself.

akstrohm
09-20-09, 07:53 am
Here are a few reviews on the subject that might help you out. I've just listed the citations and abstracts. You can look up the articles on your own and read the rest if you would like:

Lupien JR and Lin DX. 2004. Contemporary food technology and its impact on cuisine. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 13(2):156-61.

This article contains a general review of current food technologies and their effect on the quality and safety of foods. The uses of these technologies in the context of current and projected world population, urbanization prevention of food losses, preservation and trade of foods, domestically and internationally are briefly reviewed. Technologies discussed are related to food storage, refrigeration, frozen foods, milling and baking, canning, pickling, extrusion processes, fermentation, and to foods and food ingredients such as fruits and vegetables, animal products, fat and oils, canned products, and food additives.

Severi S, Bedogni G, Manzieri AM, Poli M, Battistini N. 1997. Effects of cooking and storage methods on the micronutrient content of foods. Eur J Cancer Prev. 6 Suppl 1:S21-24.

Food processing has the potential to alter the nutrient quality of foods. This review deals with the effects of home-based cooking and storage practices on the micronutrient content of foods. It describes the effects of cooking, freezing and refrigeration on the vitamin and mineral content of meats, fish, fruit, vegetables and cereals. Based on this review, we suggest that the consumer should be aware of the possibility that losses in nutritional quality of foods may result from an improper use of cooking and storage techniques available at home.

poopysmom
09-20-09, 08:31 am
I cannot say I have any authority in the subject, but it is part of what I am studying although its from my point of view as a chemist rather than as a nutritonist/dietician.

The points that had been raised here has been quite accurate in terms of frozen vegetables.

There is actually no harm in feeding your pets frozen vegetables. I think the major concern will actually be the water content than anything else. But then again, if you have the choice of feeding them fresh vegetables, why serve it frozen?

Frozen vegetables had been on on the receiving end of alot of flak. Admittedly, it used to be true in the sense that technology then was not as advance as technology now. Frozen vegetables has come a long way from being really horrible to eat with to being actually acceptable palette wise.

Lets look at vegetable from the chemistry point of view. Vegetables are technically categorised as Low GI carbohydrates, full of fibres in terms of cellulose and hemicellulose, beneficial vitamins especially water soluble vitamins and some minerals.

Water soluble vitamins. Beside A,D,E,K which belongs to fat soluble vitamins, water soluble meant that it need water to transport, synthesize and store. The downside is also because it is water soluble, it will also be rapidly lost through loss of water.

While certain water soluble vitamins are susceptible to oxidation like thiamin, the processes are different from those for the fat soluble vitamins. Processing medium or the environment is a critical factor in influencing the stability or retention of water soluble vitamins. Being water soluble, any processing and storage which increases the exposure of the vitamins to aqueous media will potentially lead to the leaching of the vitamins.

The B’s vitamins like Biotin, Thiamin, free folic acid, pantothenic acid and Vitamin C are also lost more readily at alkaline pHs. Other chemical processing agents will also contribute to the destruction of vitamins. Biotin for example is readily oxidized in the presence of H2O2. presence of transition metals like Cu2+ and Fe3+ in processing water will catalyse the oxidative properties of ascorbic acid to dehydro-ascorbic acid and then further oxidized to diketoglulonic acid with loss of bio potency.

Physical factors can also influence the loss of vitamins during processing and storage. EM radiation in the visible and near UV region is one such factor with riboflavin and pyridoxine two examples of vitamins that are photochemically degraded with attendant loss of vitamin potency. Temperature can also affect the loss of vitamins. Although certain vitamins like biotin and riboflavin are heat stable, but vitamin c, thiamin and folate for example are lost during heating.

After all the mumble jumble, your vegetables, despite as one said require transportation, etc... as long as the vegetable remains whole, capsicum for example and you only prepare it when you want to eat it, you will be able to have the optimum nutritional value you can get from that capsicum.

As mentioned, the vitamins are sensitive to transitional elements not just in the water but also to the point when you use your knife (the blade is metal) to cut through the vegetable, although minute, there will be an oxidation going on there.

To sum it up, although the technology in freezing vegetables has improved leaps and bound, in terms of holding up to nutrition, it is still inferior when compared to fresh vegetables. So, technically, if you are feeding your pigs frozen vegs, you are basically feeding them empty calories. just plenty of fibres but without much nutrition.

hope that helps.

poopysmom
09-20-09, 08:37 am
also a quick note on ice crystals, depends on how long from the point you bought the frozen vegetables from the market back to your freezer. it will influence the amount of ice crystals in the frozen veg. from the manufacturer point of view, when they release the product, it may have only the minute amount of ice crystals in it, but each individual freezer is different, so by the time it reaches your freezer, and from sitting in there to the thawing... it will be different from person to person.

Another point is that, most frozen vegetables are packed aseptically and the danger from microorganisms are about the same as eating fresh vegetables.
Salmonella and Listeria being the biggest culprit. Botulism can only happened in canned food and vacuumed pack food btw because the bacteria that produces the botulinum toxin are anaerobic.

The temperature that frozen veg are kept generally can destroys quite a number of bacterias except the spores producing ones.

JD In Van
09-20-09, 08:41 am
I grew up on a farm. My father's worked in agriculture my entire life, first in growing and then in other aspects of managing, selling, transporting, and handling grain and produce crops.

What was posted above about bacteria is true, once unfrozen the bacteria begin to develop... though those same bacteria would have been far more developed by the time that food got to your door had it not been frozen.

The nutritional content is for the most part largely intact though. As long as you do not defrost your food in the microwave. And THAT is the trick. The mircowave does destroy the nutrients of multiple foods including, including water soluable vitamins like Vit C. Instead, ideally defrost foods in your fridge (which is cold enough to keep any bacteria growth slow) or if they're to be consummed immediately, put them in a ziploc bag and emerse them in hot water in the sink.

I wouldn't worry about the freezing. Humanity has used freezing to preserve and keep food safe forever. Worry about the radiation box on your kitchen counter that we're all so heavily dependant on.

blackarrow
09-20-09, 09:27 am
The bigger question to me than if it's possible (anything's possible) is whether there's a reason to be doing it. I can't see one. I don't know why I'd want to feed the guys something that was of less nutritional value than fresh, and even if the nutritional dropoff wasn't large, which I can't guarantee, I don't know why my guys would want to eat, say, an uncooked defrosted slice of pepper. I certainly wouldn't find it appealing, even though I would like them raw and fresh.

Onetwo
09-20-09, 11:06 am
I would agree on the frozen/canned food veggies stuff. I give my kids and guinea pigs frozen/canned veggies about 1-2 times a month if that only if I dont have a variety of food for them to eat. My guinea pigs and kids do prefer the fresh of course and about 99.5% of their meals they do get fresh but if all I have in my fridge/freezer is that (because its been a busy week job searching) I will throw them a handful until I can get to the store that day or the next. I am also very careful about getting the organic and/or NO sodium, NO sugar, NO preservatives stuff as well.

AmandaErlandson
10-10-09, 09:35 pm
What about foods that I grew myself in my completely organic garden and then canned myself? Are they safe?

Ly&Pigs
10-10-09, 10:00 pm
Don't you have to cook them to can them? If so, then no you can't feed canned goods to pigs. They need fresh, raw veggies only.

sunshine
10-26-09, 06:49 am
I feed my pigs frozen veggies as a treat to tide them over for when im out of lettuce and stuff for them..And maybe a little bit to stop them begging every time i rustle a bag. obviously they couldnt take the place of fresh veggies though.. but as a treat they are fine.

princesspoppy
10-26-09, 06:59 am
.. but as a treat they are fine.

Sorry but i disagree . It's not fine to feed frozen veg as a treat.:eek:

VoodooJoint
10-26-09, 08:37 am
I feed my pigs frozen veggies as a treat to tide them over for when im out of lettuce and stuff for them..And maybe a little bit to stop them begging every time i rustle a bag. obviously they couldnt take the place of fresh veggies though.. but as a treat they are fine.


Feeding a GP frozen veggies can cause severe gastro intestinal upset which can have grave consequences. Your advice could cause severe illness, even death, in someone else's pet. Frozen veggies are not acceptable.

distancel
10-26-09, 08:46 am
It really is a shame that they aren't okay to use though hehe. I have to buy a variety of fresh veges every 3 days or so for the piggers. Seriously, I spend more on food for them than I do on food for me. The problem is I can only buy small amounts of each thing so it is still fresh when they get it, so I'm at the shops every few days buying one or two of everything. I wonder if the shop people think I am strange :)

clikits99
05-23-10, 08:33 pm
I have a bag of carrots that I give to Blackberry ( Only 1 a day ) and we keep them In the refrigrator are they still ok if I let the carrot get room tempiture before giving it to her?

VoodooJoint
05-24-10, 05:20 pm
Refrigerated veggies are fine. You do not need to let them come to room temperature. Keeping veggies cool keeps them fresh without changing their cellular structure.

clikits99
06-01-10, 08:01 pm
oooh ok good to know that! :D

Cogni
06-01-10, 09:29 pm
I understand what you are saying but my piggies have never choked on them. How do i get them to eat just the pellets:?:

You get them to eat just the pellets by giving them plain pellets, not pellets with seeds and grains and colored 'cookies'.

Your argument 'but my piggies have never choked on them' is not a good one. Any animal or child that chokes to death on some small item they shouldn't have been given (because through others' experience it is known as a choking hazard), never choked to death before on it. Choking on small things the size of a child or animal's windpipe is a risk, not a 100% certainty . If you keep exposing your piggie to the risk, it could happen one of these days.

Cogni
06-02-10, 05:48 am
Flash frozen vegetables are fine for people; we cook food and get our fiber in other ways besides the cellulose in the cell walls.

Piggies get all their fiber from fresh foods. Insoluble fiber from hay and grass, which they need a lot of, and soluble and some insoluble fiber from fresh veggies, which they eat a smaller amount of.

Have you ever had a frozen and thawed salad? Freezing, like cooking, breaks down the fiber -the cell walls are actually exploded by ice crystals-- and not only taste but the function of the fiber in the GI tract is affected greatly. For a tiny GI tract that depends on the intact fiber of raw foods to make it function properly, giving frozen veg is going to pose GI problems, if they eat it at all.