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spudster
08-25-06, 08:09 am
It does not appear to me as though you allow "alternate" C& C type Cages. I uploaded my 3 story mansion and was insulted that it did not live up to the standards on this site...so be it then..dont tell people to upload a picture of it and waste their time doing so if you are just going to delete and say it doesnt meet up to the standard.
disappointed that we can not post variety like mine below:

VoodooJoint
08-25-06, 09:08 am
Spudster - I am starting a new thread for your reply as it does not belong in the thread you placed it in. The original thread you posted in is here http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/about-cages/8067-how-build-alternative-c-c-type-cage.html?posted=1#post239503

We do allow alternative cages to be uploaded into the gallery. The alternative cages must meet minimum size requirements though.

While your cage is good looking and a nice first attempt at a C&C I did not belong in the gallery.

First of all your cage is not an "alternative" type cage. It is a straightforward C&C cage. Alternative cages are ones made from materials other then storage cubes and coroplast.

Secondly your C&C cage does not meet the minimum size required by this website.

I explained it all to you in the PM you got. Your cage is only half the size of the minimum recommended size.

Only the "footprint" or main floor counts when we talk of "minimum cage size". Additional levels and lofts do not add to the square footage.

The large area is required for them to run laps, explore and find personal space away from their roommate.

If you expand your cage to meet the minimum requirements of this sit you may then submit pictures of it in the gallery.

Ly&Pigs
08-25-06, 09:52 am
In case you haven't read the main page www.guineapigcages.com, the minimum standards for a C&C is a 2x3 meaning two cubes by three cubes. Your cage is a one cube by three cube C&C.

spudster
08-25-06, 10:05 am
Thanks for your "input " but I am happy with my cage and so are my guinea pigs...This site was useful for helping design my guinea's mansion...They have plenty of running space as it is 3 stories high and has the more square footage than most of the cages posted here. They can run freely and very quickly and hop around and dont get into each others space as there are 3 levels and 3 homes and 2 litter boxes. Unfortunatly I cant make it any wider as there is no space in my 3 story skinny home that my 3 story guinea cage fits perfectly in...So I guess you dont want to post my "alternative styled" cage and thats Ok...thanks anyways. I wont bother posting a pic of it when it becomes 4 or 5 stories either i guess because it is of no use to any of you. Ps the main page states its suggested to be 2x5...said the "bigger the better" so i feel my is bigger and better than what they had. :sarcastic
Spudster

spudster
08-25-06, 10:07 am
And..not to sound defensive but...I think what they have been given is much better then what most people / shelters provide for their pigs. Much better than the standard. People need to be less rigid and more flexible.

jump it
08-25-06, 10:10 am
"Bigger is better", yes it is. But 'taller' isn't. However if you have the cage's base meet the requirements, then it could work with the standards. And it bothers me when people say that their guinea pigs are happy and feel fine, but how do humans really know that? We can't read minds of our pets. It's always been quite confusing for me.

Ly&Pigs
08-25-06, 10:13 am
Again, your cage is not a C&C alternative cage. It's a plain C&C that doesn't meet the recommended sizes of this site. It clearly states the following on the main page:

Exercise and exploration space are very important for their long-term health and happiness. Cavies need enough room to do "full-tilt laps." Upper levels should not be counted in providing the minimum square footage. In fact, ramps used to provide access to the upper deck usually take away from downstairs exercise space and count against square footage.

Your cage is only 4.2 square foot. The recommended size is at least 7.5 sq. ft. for 2 sows and 10.5 sq. ft. for 2 boars.

Apparantly, you have learned nothing about cage sizes from this site.


People need to be less rigid and more flexible.When it comes to caging standards on this site, NO we aren't going to be less rigid and more flexible if someone is NOT meeting the minimum required size.

VoodooJoint
08-25-06, 10:19 am
the main page states its suggested to be 2x5...said the "bigger the better" so i feel my is bigger and better than what they had. This is also what the cage building pages have to say

"Don't think that if you don't have enough space you can go high instead of wide for your cavies. THIS IS NOT a good environment for your guinea pigs. Ferret and Chinchilla cages are for Ferrets and Chinchillas -- NOT guinea pigs. Guinea pigs are low-to-the-ground dwellers and need the full and proper space on their ground floor. AFTER you have given them proper, unencumbered rectangular square footage for living, THEN you can add SAFE upper decks, limited only by your creativity and safety for the animals.


And..not to sound defensive but...I think what they have been given is much better then what most people / shelters provide for their pigs.Shelters are not providing permenant housing for the animals it has. Most of the cages the small animals are kept in are every bit as inadequate as the kennels the dogs and cats are kept in. An owner is expected to do better for the animal.


People need to be less rigid and more flexible. This entire site is devoted to LARGE housing. We will not stop being rigid about our minimum requirements.

You will do whatever you want whether it's for good or bad. You do not get to place your small cage in the gallery here though. People may mistake it as acceptable by the forum standards.

spudster
08-25-06, 10:20 am
as for whether or not the guinea pigs are happy..it is fromTHIS site that indicates that when guineas are happy they are running about popping around squeeking what appears to be happy...they are eating, drinking sleeping and not fighting and seem to actually be having fun when watching.Those are the observations I believe others rely on when deciding whether their animals are happy...?
not sure your point here...you just dont like variations.:confused:

VoodooJoint
08-25-06, 10:26 am
I will make this simple.
Upper levels do not count. ONLY the first level counts as the cage size.

You cage threfore is a 1x3 which is only half of the minimum size (2x3)

spudster
08-25-06, 10:29 am
and I will retract with the same question...How do you KNOW it doesnt count!!?? How do you know they are nt happy!!?? Upper levels count to me and to my pigs ...it counts cuz they use it! Where did you get your "research from" what did the pigs tell ya?:sarcastic

VoodooJoint
08-25-06, 10:33 am
Stop making such a big deal about it. So you can't get your cage picture in the gallery because it's too small. Does it really matter that much to you?

If you want to keep your small cage you can. If you want to ignore the years of experiance the owner of this site, and the members, have compiled over the years the that is up to you. No one is going to show up at your door and force you to change anything.

Ly&Pigs
08-25-06, 10:38 am
Teresa (CavySpirit) the owner of this site is the one who invented the C&C cages and set the cage standards. She has housed literally thousands of pigs in these cages and has observed the pigs behaviors in the cages as well. To suggest she is wrong or to insult her and her vast knowledge on caging is quite moronic.

In addition to Teresa's experience and knowledge, there are thousands more of us slaves that use these types of cages to the proper size standards and we provide feedback to her and others as well.

CavySpirit
08-25-06, 11:30 am
I'd like to add some guinea pig behavior information to this thread. I think most experienced guinea pig people know this already, but I'm going to add it anyway.

When are upper decks most used by guinea pigs? When the cages are new, when cavies are babies (popcorning constantly zoom freaks), when they are young. The longer you have cavies in a particular cage, typically, over time, the less they will use the upper deck. As the cavies get older, they are very disinclined to use the upper decks. Most senior cavies cannot use an upper deck at all. Arthritis is a common problem in aging cavies.

Again, their overriding preference is to be low to the ground with a variety of ample hiding places and space to run as well.

The only time I would ever recommend a one-grid wide cage is for special medical circumstances that would dictate it--such as ambulatory problems, blindness, etc. And usually, even blind pigs do fine in a larger cage.

The question about shelters should not have been about cages. The question should have been, 'are your pigs better off with you than at a shelter or some other less desirable home?' Certainly.

However, I can pretty much quarantee you that if I came to your home, I could figure out a way for you to add another foot of width to your cage in your living space. Taking three square feet or so out of your life is NOTHING. Doubling their inadequate living space is huge. And if you don't believe me, you can post or send me privately, photos and measurements of your home and I can do it remotely.

VoodooJoint
08-25-06, 02:44 pm
And now Spudster you have started a 2nd ID to back yourself up in a debate?

That is against the rules and thus you and your alter Ego are getting banned.

CavySpirit
08-25-06, 02:53 pm
Just FYI, Spudster/Henry I unapproved your last post.

spoonyspork
08-26-06, 09:56 am
Not to bring this back up, but in case Spudster is still reading this...

Guinea Pigs usually aren't very small, as far as rodents go. My current guy is *almost* one grid long, and Cupid, the one who just died, was absolutely a monster of a pig - right about 1 grid long, longer than that when he stretched out in a full gallop. I can't even begin to imagine them doing laps and actually being able to turn corners without giving themselves head injuries every time in a one-grid wide cage.

Are your guys fully grown? If not, maybe they're fine now, but what would happen if they were to grow more? Even if they were only 1/2 grid long, what about when they get older and can't turn as sharply? I already had plans to expand my cage from a 2x3 to a 3x3, as Cupid was already having trouble turning corners during laps.

I never understood the scope of problems with having a smaller cage until I was in a sittuation where my guinea pigs couldn't be in constant floor time, and I couldn't afford a 'larger' cage once I realized the current 'extra large' cage left them barely enough room to move as they became adults, and the cage had to be cleaned almost daily.

My SO kept his guinea pigs in inadequite caging way back when, when this site didn't exist and they couldn't find any really good alternatives, so they stacked cages up and made multi-story houses. After a couple years, none of the pigs used the upper floors anymore, and they ended up in constant floor time as well. Most people can't have a 'safe room' set up for rodents though, like I was able to before I had a child and cats, and like my SO's family was since they had two completely unused bedrooms.

And once again, I bring up the fact that if I could fit a 2x3 with two pigs in a 600 sq ft one bedroom apartment along with a cat, three gerbils, two adults, and a child, then anyone can fit a 2x3 in their place, *somewhere*. I gave up a kitchen table and went to using TV trays and the breakfast bar for meals. It wasn't *that* bad. Granted, I'm glad now that we have more room and only have to give up part of a bedroom that gets used for nothing but sleeping for the cage, but still...