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UK UK timothy- good or bad?

muffin

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Hi guys, after recently having to throw out a 22kg box of oxbow timothy hay because it may have been contaminated with hay mites
(not oxbow's fault I know), I'm wondering if it might be worth looking into timothy hay grown here in the UK instead. It would be a lot cheaper, but I have been told by a potentially biased source (guy who sells imported timmy hay online), that the stuff grown in this country isn't as high in the necessary nutrients because our climate is different. Does anyone have any opinions or information on this? It would be much better for my wallet if I could buy locally sourced horse-quality timothy bales, but it's no good if they aren't suitable. And my second question, my new bag of oxbow has on it's content label, max moisture 15%. Is this the ideal moisture content or can it be higher or lower, because the horse supplier has different types of timothy, defined by their moisture content.

Thanks in advance.
 

jabberwock

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What nutrients does the UK guy think are missing? Most hay analysis only gives values for calcium and protein. The most significant factor about UK hay is that it's usually a 1st cut as the weather often prevents a second cut - this factor influences the protein level.
Soil type and soil treatment will affect the hay too and I would have thought that would have just as big an influence on things like trace elements (magnesium, chromium etc.) as the climate. I'm not a hay expert but I do grow vegetables so I know that there are lots of factors influencing nutritional content.

Generall each field of hay in any part of the world will have slightly different levels of trace elements, protein, starch... Unless you get each batch sampled individually then you can't be absolutely certain of the nutritional analysis.
 

Percy's Mom

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As long as the locally grown hay is green, smells good, and isn't moldy, I can't imagine what could possibly be wrong with it. Your pig is using the hay mostly for fiber and to keep his teeth in check, not necessarily for nutrition. Veggies and pellets are there to make sure they get all of their nutrition. I'd have to guess that the online guy is just trying to scare you into buying his product.
 

muffin

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That was my suspicion, especially since I was talking about buying it from somewhere down in wales. The jist of what he said was that the climate in Canada is warmer and sunnier, which means better hay, and that often timothy hay grown here is a timothy/rye mix. Our climate is cooler, but I would imagine if horses can eat it it's fine? Like you said PM, it's for fibre.
Am I right in thinking that first cut is more stemmy or is it more leafy? I won't be able to buy a bale or visit the horse supplier until we move into our new house in about a month (can store it there, plus the place is quite far away just for a visit), but I will let you all know how I get on. Of course this thread is irrelevant if my piggies decide they want Oxbow and nothing else. The stuff the online guy sent a sample of was very stemmy, and my piggers wouldn't touch it. They just looked at me like, "ha ha, very funny. Now go and get our oxbow hay." I've looked into rye hay, and GL says it's alright. I know Oxbow don't use many pesticides or chamicals, so I'll need to email the Horse supplier and see if they can give me any information on that.

Thanks for the replies.
 

Percy's Mom

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I believe that first cut is more stemmy, and it gets leafier with each cutting after that. If I have that backwards, I'm sure that someone will come by and correct me. If you're a member of GL, you might want to go on there and email Kleenmama. She could definitely tell you for certain.
 

jabberwock

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If you browse through this thread on guinealynx then kleenmamma explains a lot about the different cuts of hay - I found it really informative.
Guinea Lynx :: Topic - Exciting news for the Hayloft! (maybe)

Basically 1st cut is stemmier and has more fibre, subsequent cuts are leafier, less fibre and have higher levels of protein and other nutrients.

On the hay page of guinealynx they have a link to a table showing various nutritional properties of hay. And if you are prepared to be really confused, follow this link at the bottom of the guinealynx hay page www.safergrass.org
They describe it as "nutritional info on grass and hays" - it's actually about horses and high starch levels in hays (also a bit about low levels of some minerals). At this point I decided I was collecting too much information and that I should just give them nice, green, fresh hay and stop worrying so much!

As for the UK grown stuff - I know that West Wales Willows grow their Timothy with red clover and meadow fescue and the Timothy hay that the Hay Experts sell is grown with about 10% rye. This is because Timothy's hard to grow on its own.
 

muffin

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Thanks PM and Jabberwock. Sorry I took so long to reply. The safergrass site is a bit confusing! From what I understand from GL's hay chart, rye is about the same for ratios and calcium as timothy. I'm asuming if it's ok for horses, and mostly timothy, and of fresh, green quality we should be ok. I'll let you all know how I get on, ...when I do.
 
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