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GraphicW
07-23-06, 11:32 pm
I have been in the online Cavy Community for about seven years, but most of you likely do not know me even though I run one of largest cavy forums on the web. Some of you old timers and the owner and moderator team on this site more than likely know me though. I have been rather low profile over the last few years and usually only lurked and or participated in the background. I have not participated in any cavy forums outside of my own since mid 2001 and did not publicly participate in my own forum much after 2002.

I have turned over a new leaf though and will be back out in view once again after being a recluse for so long. Life is not much fun sitting in the shadows. I may even get back into the Cavy hobby after having been out of it since January of 2001. Yep you heard me right, I have not owned the little critters since 2001. Bet that surprises most of you that I continued to run one of the larger cavy forums while no longer being active in the hobby.

Lets throw out a little about myself. I live in the Charleston, WV area. My interests are computers, website operation and nutrition/fitness. I also enjoy travel, movies, shopping, home improvement and just having a good time in general. I work in a jail as a correctional officer and spend my days inmates. This job educates you in the area of street knowledge. Speaking of streets, I have seen the streets of Baghdad, both the good and the bad (unfortunately more bad than good because of the way Bush is managing matters).

Speaking of Bush, I used to be an avid supporter of him. After six of him power though, civil rights have been eroded considerably, government expenditure is through the roof and our coutry is now a bananna republic with very few manufacturing jobs. We are a retail nation now with Wal-mart as the top employer. Go figure on that! :crazy:

That's all I have for now. You guys will be seeing me around from time to time.

stipma
07-23-06, 11:50 pm
Hey Graphic,

Nice to see you.

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 12:23 am
Welcome Brion.

Welcome back to the world of cavies. The rescue business continues unabated since you've been gone from cavies. Just got a panic call tonight from a woman who needs to rehome a litter of 8, would have been 10, but two were still-born. The tired new Mom and healthy babies were found on her property along with an adult boar. Two others could not be caught and are presumed dead. Of course, we are full and can't take them. They will likely be going to a kill-shelter.

Nice to hear you are starting to lean a little more to the left, although personally I wouldn't want to have that first-hand experience. We do appreciate your military service.

Most of our members here wouldn't refer to owning pet cavies as a hobby, so I assume you are talking about 'the hobby' the way breeders and showers talk about 'the hobby.' I'm wondering about your new leaf and what that's all about. Care to share?

I must admit, I'm curious about your timing, though. One of my moderators gets banned on your forum, the thread is removed (I have a copy) and within the hour you decide to join along with the moderator who probably banned her. So, I'm assuming that you all have decided to come over here to give us a run for our money on the issues--which is really great! I promise we won't ban you--that is unless you break one of our rules, which are pretty clearly stated and pretty easy to follow for anyone with average smarts.

So, welcome to our world! Looking forward to potentially debating the issues. As you know, I have gone out of my way to avoid forum/board wars. I still have no desire for such. Maybe we'll see you in our Kitchen?! There has only been one person who has posted here in the somewhat pro-breeder camp who has managed to carry on an intelligent debate over time. And even she in the end resorted to petty, discriminatory name-calling. Oh well.

Look forward to hearing more from you on the front lines!

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 12:29 am
Wow, that was fast. You didn't waste any time. Guess I'm good at calling it. I'm compiling my nice welcome message and you are already stirring it up in the Kitchen! :)

Now that the strategy is committed, how about re-opening the thread that got removed on the Compendium?

GraphicW
07-24-06, 12:35 am
No problem at all Teresa. I will replace your message though I did not pull it down. I had not issue with it and actually do not know which of my mods took it down as nobody owned up to it. I have some "cooking" to do in the kitchen. I need to get back to that before I get cinged. :cheerful:

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 01:12 am
Thank you. I know your mod pulled it. I would also appreciate it if you would reinstate Susan. And your mods seem to be as ban happy as they used to be on Cavies Galore (who knows what they do there now). Very discouraging for a 'let's all get along' place. Let's all get along as long as we all think the same way.

GraphicW
07-24-06, 01:20 am
Nice to hear you are starting to lean a little more to the left, although personally I wouldn't want to have that first-hand experience. We do appreciate your military service.

Seeing it first-hand is FAR different than seeing it on TV. I agree with Saddam being removed, but I do not agree with the way things are being done. I also look at our situation here at home, the patriot act specifically as well as the sorry condition of our economy.


Most of our members here wouldn't refer to owning pet cavies as a hobby, so I assume you are talking about 'the hobby' the way breeders and showers talk about 'the hobby.' I'm wondering about your new leaf and what that's all about. Care to share?

Of course I will share. Keep in mind that I am not and never have been a breeder myself. I simply support responsible owners' rights to breed if they desire. While large Cavy populations may be a problem in your area, they are not in this area. The only Pet Store in this area that consistently stocks Guinea Pigs in this area is Petsmart at a price of $35.00 per Guinea Pig. Petsmart buys from mills, the smaller local stores depend on local breeders for their supply as well as rescuing from owners that can longer care for their Cavies. One of my friends was deployed to Iraq before I was in 2003. It was on short notice and he had to get rid of his male Guinea Pig. I took it off his hands for a few days, but I knew I was going to get called up soon as well, so I needed to get the cavy rehomed quick. I drove to the pet store and they took it cage and all. Before I even walked out the door, another customer had actually already decided to give him a home. She said she had another male at home that needed a friend while she was away.


I must admit, I'm curious about your timing, though. One of my moderators gets banned on your forum, the thread is removed (I have a copy) and within the hour you decide to join along with the moderator who probably banned her. So, I'm assuming that you all have decided to come over here to give us a run for our money on the issues--which is really great! I promise we won't ban you--that is unless you break one of our rules, which are pretty clearly stated and pretty easy to follow for anyone with average smarts.

Actually, the current events have nothing to with my decision to come out from under the proverbial rock. I always had plans of signing up here, it's just the events of tonight made me decide to go on ahead and get it done with. Of course I am here on legitimate premises and certainly not as a troll. You know enough about me to know that I have given real information here. We have spoken on the phone in the past and we were both friend of Carolyn Mullins of cavies.com back during the forum war with Cavies Galore so you know all about my ways. That's why you knew I was heading in the kitchen to do a little baking. Good call indeed. Of course I will not break any rules. I do after all have more respect for you than that and you have certainly not broken any rules on my site.

Lets discuss the banning of your moderator. You are right once again in that I did not ban her. I did however see the posts that resulted in her banning. The did seem rather rude a mean spirited in the way they were written, but you know how things can be misconstrued on a forum. It is after all a limited form of communication with no way of seeing body language and hearing tone and inflection.


So, welcome to our world! Looking forward to potentially debating the issues. As you know, I have gone out of my way to avoid forum/board wars. I still have no desire for such. Maybe we'll see you in our Kitchen?! There has only been one person who has posted here in the somewhat pro-breeder camp who has managed to carry on an intelligent debate over time. And even she in the end resorted to petty, discriminatory name-calling. Oh well.

As I said before, you already knew I was on my way to the kitchen. :DThere may be some civil debates of issues in the near future, but I do not anticipate a forum war. I can assure you that neither myself nor any of my team will resort to name-calling. You and I have certainly had our share of debates in the past, but we also agreed to disagree and for the most part have not had any problems. Interesting times lie ahead for sure though.

Thank you for the welcome!

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 01:53 am
Actually, the current events have nothing to with my decision to come out from under the proverbial rock. I always had plans of signing up here, it's just the events of tonight made me decide to go on ahead and get it done with. Of course I am here on legitimate premises and certainly not as a troll. You know enough about me to know that I have given real information here.
Yes, I definitely agree that all of the info you've posted has been accurate. Just you and your mod coming here right after the other situation was suspect.

I guess, from multiple statements you've made, I would make sure that you are very aware of what your moderators are doing and how your forum is being represented. While I love my moderators dearly, I would not abdicate the leadership role of this forum. I stand by them and their actions. We work together and we share all information about our collective activities. I just assumed that other forum administrators took a similar leadership role.


The did seem rather rude a mean spirited in the way they were written,...
Seeming rude is a bannable offense? I thought the responses of your moderator seemed rude and mean-spirited. So? It's the bias of the forum. You don't like our position. We don't like yours. We let you say whatever you want. I assume you can take the heat of the responses. I expect the same treatment. Honestly, the ONLY reason I'm not banned from your forum is because I know better than to post on the issues/threads that matter. I stick to my innocuous posts about cages. That's kept me out of trouble with your moderators. Not that I haven't wanted to post. I don't dare. I'm not a smiley face kind of poster. I guarantee I'd also come off as rude to some people.

I'm not going to take up debating the breeder issues here. And I need to get to bed. I should have been working on a presentation for work tomorrow. Oh well....:sarcastic

GraphicW
07-24-06, 02:00 am
I must admit I have not been paying full attention to what goes on in my forums. The admins and mods have ran on auto-pilot more or less for the last four years. I will review the situation myself and dicuss it with my moderators. The moderator that did the banning may even speak their piece here. :)

I plan to also be more involved with my forum in the future. I have more or less left it be and I am sure you likely noticed that.

MrsHauler
07-24-06, 08:36 am
Susan was given only a 72 hour vacation from the forum, she will be able to reaccess the boards on the 26th when we will then re-evaluate her behaviour and additude towards other members including staff.

VoodooJoint
07-24-06, 09:28 am
Welcome Graphic. Good to see you around.


Susan was given only a 72 hour vacation from the forum, she will be able to reaccess the boards on the 26th when we will then re-evaluate her behaviour and additude towards other members including staff.Which mod or admin are you? I'd like to put a name with you so I know who is speaking. Welcome by the way.

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 09:38 am
Brion, for not wanting to start board wars, this post is very out of line: The Cavy Compendium Forums - View Single Post - Please be advised. (http://www.cavycompendium.com/forums/showpost.php?p=636926&postcount=1)

Clearly Purrkitty7 is talking about my site. The day this site is run at a profit will be a thing of joy. I have so much red ink to recover as a direct result of irresponsible breeders it's not even funny.

Also, if your staff are going to post stuff like this as an attack on our forum (you don't need to name names, we all know this is in reference to cavycages.com)
To set the record straight, we do not promote irresponsible breeding, we do believe in rescue, and all our staff do not breed,...then you are leaving yourself wide open for us to really set the record straight. This is what I mean about forum wars.

I didn't know your Dad or Mom ran the site!


My son created this site because he wanted to help pet owners, and he pays to keep this site running, ...

I thought it was your site and forum. Hmmm. You are user number 1. Purrkitty7 is user number 48. I know there was some weird history with the site that I don't remember. Now I'm curious as to who is really running the show over there.

MrsHauler, why do you need to hide behind a new identity? Brion didn't. Stipma says she didn't, although I don't know why she felt the need to reregister when she is an active member here. So, who are you on CC?

Also, we have published guidelines when it comes to bannings and such. AND our members generally receive three warnings prior to banning (or vacation!). We keep track of all notifications of warnings. When we ban someone, we now post the information publicly, so that our membership and the public can see that we are not being capricious. And we generally leave up the threads that are in contention. You won't see us remove threads or posts that are pro-breeding or in hot debate.

Yes, everyone gets to run their forums and sites the way they see fit. For all the talk about having a happy place where all opinions count, I'd rather have a bit more of an open democracy and a place run with honesty rather than a seemingly happy place, but only when you tow the party line and freedom of expression is squelched.

So rather than sweeping generalizations, I'm referencing an exact thread, posted by an administrator.

Brion, most of us here believe strongly in animal welfare issues. To have your administrator dismiss us as fanatics is in fact a blanket personal attack on all of us--the one thing that you say you don't abide.

stipma
07-24-06, 12:09 pm
I find it interesting that you accuse us of "everyone can get along as long as we think the same way". That's exactly what I observe over here. There have already been 'warnings' that we are not to discuss breeding here as it is an anti-breeding forum. Uh-huh.

Susan9608
07-24-06, 12:17 pm
How-to breeding discussions are not allowed; as an anti-breeding forum, we don't encourage the production of more and more animals when there are already too many as it is.

Discussing the pros and cons of breeding is - and has always been - allowed here.

stipma
07-24-06, 12:19 pm
Fair enough. I don't think anyone was going to start talking about how to breed anyway.

GraphicW
07-24-06, 12:43 pm
Brion, for not wanting to start board wars, this post is very out of line: The Cavy Compendium Forums - View Single Post - Please be advised. (http://www.cavycompendium.com/forums/showpost.php?p=636926&postcount=1)

Clearly Purrkitty7 is talking about my site. The day this site is run at a profit will be a thing of joy. I have so much red ink to recover as a direct result of irresponsible breeders it's not even funny.

In all honestly, I do not believe that Purkitty has ever participated on this site. She also has never owned Guinea Pigs and more of cat person. This is a reference to people without naming names. If you would like to know who she is talking about, it is Voodoojoint.


I didn't know your Dad or Mom ran the site! I thought it was your site and forum. Hmmm. You are user number 1. Purrkitty7 is user number 48. I know there was some weird history with the site that I don't remember. Now I'm curious as to who is really running the show over there.

You didn't know this because they don't run the site (my parents). I pay the bills and I have ran the site since day one. Purkitty was not involved with the site in the Cavies Galore days. She was not actually on the scene until earlier 2004 while I was in Iraq (though she was a member in 2001 because she was good friends with PCfew) and needed someone to keep an eye on the site. You likely recall that is around the same time that Treen and Piggielove (known as Jackie) split the site.

The real people that ran the show in 2004 were actually PCfew and Amandak and both made a few decisions that resulted in Treen deciding to leave. Yes, it involved breeding vs rescue which is one reason the hatred this issues generates is such an important topic to me. We had a segment of staff that did not trust Amanda from day one as a result of this issue.

By mid 2004, PCfew began to experience mysterious illnesses that gradually worsened over time and was not able to come on very often. By late 2005, she was quite ill and was rarely online. We recently lost her in early June of this year to Lung Cancer. We did not realize she had it until late Feburary of this year and she did not realize it either. Now you know why there has been a little change in the power structure at the site. Our main admins these days are Amandak, myself, Tweetypie (PC's daughter) and Oefje (he is the background for the most part by his own choice).


Also, we have published guidelines when it comes to bannings and such. AND our members generally receive three warnings prior to banning (or vacation!). We keep track of all notifications of warnings. When we ban someone, we now post the information publicly, so that our membership and the public can see that we are not being capricious. And we generally leave up the threads that are in contention. You won't see us remove threads or posts that are pro-breeding or in hot debate.

We have have published guidelines as well. The problem is that some of your staff has joined the Cavy Compendium and resorted to insulting and brow beating our members for breeding mistakes and such. There are ways to handle these things without attacking the person. The only thing that should be attacked is the situation and/or event.

In the end, we are all people and deserve to be treated as such. I follow those rules every day and I see people being treated worse for breeding than people that have actually murdered and killed people and raped little children (yes, I see people like that every I am at work). I am able to keep my feelings aside and address and treat the person as a human being. Breeding and ignorant ownership does no kill and/or destroy any human for life. There is no need for hate to exist over the issue and that is my whole point. More results are achieved by showing the person where they are wrong and working with them. I speak as person who used to beat people to death that thought differently as well. I was quilty of it myself at one time and you know that Teresa.


So rather than sweeping generalizations, I'm referencing an exact thread, posted by an administrator.

I did not feel the need the specifically address any threads in particular. The general climate in the online Cavy Community is Breeder hates resuce and vice versa and figured that any reasonable person would be able to find plenty of those threads here. My site is not exactly popular with some people here at Cavy Cages and the breeding issue is cited as the top reason as well as accusations that we allow inaccurate information to go unchecked. I even find a thread where we are said to be worse than Cavies Galore! LOL One need only do a search for Compendium and read the threads to see a few examples here.

If you still believe specifics are needed, I will link both threads on my site as well as this one that illustrate my points well. I pretty sure though that the majority of people will understand where I am coming from even though they may not agree.

Ly&Pigs
07-24-06, 12:44 pm
As a Veteran of both the Army and Navy I am proud that you are serving or have served our country GraphicW, but I have to let you know that political statements or discussions have no place on this forum. It is clearly stated in in our Community Forum here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/principles-philosophies/18208-about-religion-politics.html.

Also please take the time to read our policies and guidelines if you haven't already to familiarize yourself with our rules and what we stand for on this forum. Our rules which can be found here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/cavy-chat-announcement-posting-etiquette-rules-forum-conduct.html

Please also take a look at the Community Sections entitled Policies and Guidelines found here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/policies-guidelines/ and at our Principles and Philosophies section found here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/principles-philosophies/.

I am sure all forums have their policies and rules and as a long time mod here I have to ask you not to bring politics into anymore of your threads unless they conform to the first link I posted. Thank you.

GraphicW
07-24-06, 12:47 pm
Fair enough. I don't think anyone was going to start talking about how to breed anyway.

Thank you for pointing that out Stipma. My point is not to discuss the practice of breeding here. I want to try to discover why some resort to treating someone as a criminal for breeding or supporting it.

Susan9608
07-24-06, 12:55 pm
I want to try to discover why some resort to treating someone as a criminal for breeding or supporting it.

There are some people - like me - that take animal welfare very seriously and feel that anything that subjects animals to unnecessary suffering and/or abuse *is* criminal. Personally, I think putting animals through the suffering of breeding mills and backyard breeders when there are already more animals than there are homes is abusive and criminal.

GraphicW
07-24-06, 12:56 pm
Actually my reference to politics does abide by the rules. I merely only made reference to a few issues in describing myself. I feel one can understand more about another person by understanding their opinions.

Please do not treat me as though I am here to abuse the rules. I clearly am not. I did not mention politics in order to debate it. Truth be told, I was done discussing it beyond the first post I left in that thread. I certaintly was not here to debate that with anyone.

Thanks for pointing those out, but I think Teresa has already done so in far tactful and respectful manner.

As a Veteran of both the Army and Navy I am proud that you are serving or have served our country GraphicW, but I have to let you know that political statements or discussions have no place on this forum. It is clearly stated in in our Community Forum here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/principles-philosophies/18208-about-religion-politics.html.

Also please take the time to read our policies and guidelines if you haven't already to familiarize yourself with our rules and what we stand for on this forum. Our rules which can be found here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/cavy-chat-announcement-posting-etiquette-rules-forum-conduct.html

Please also take a look at the Community Sections entitled Policies and Guidelines found here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/policies-guidelines/ and at our Principles and Philosophies section found here- http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/principles-philosophies/.

I am sure all forums have their policies and rules and as a long time mod here I have to ask you not to bring politics into anymore of your threads unless they conform to the first link I posted. Thank you.

Ly&Pigs
07-24-06, 01:33 pm
I am not treating you as though you were here to abuse the rules. I do this with many newbies to our forum. I want all to have a clear, concise understanding of this forum's rules, policies, guidelines and principles. That is one of my jobs as a moderator here and surely you can respect me for doing my job.

MrsHauler
07-24-06, 02:37 pm
Teresa, you are smart cookie and should be able to figure out who I am rather quickly.

I did not use this identity to hide, but it is a new name I use on forums I have joined, it started mostly as a joke with my husband as the forums he participates on he is known as kidhauler and his brother as bikehauler. Thus they are now known collectively as the hauler brothers. I told him that I planned on joining his forums as MrsHauler and telling them all the silly things he does but doesn't care to share with them. So that's the story of why I used this name.

If you are so in need of homes for cavies in your shelter Teresa, why did you decline my request to adopta spayed female as companion for our pet cavy? In fact I don't believe you even gave me the courtesty of returning the application, you just just ignored it. I was trying to show that I am trying to help, yet my offer of help fell upon what seemed like deaf ears. If I remember correctly I had to chase you for an answer.

Our sow lived in a lovely C&C cage that I offered to send photos of and offered a home check if you so wished. In fact, I felt the offer of taking a altered animal would prove that I had no intention on breeding said animal.

It is a shame that rescue isn't more willing to work with breeders, I know that you have had fruitless meetings with breeders in California, not from their lack of willing to help, but your firm stance that they would have to stop breeding and showing to be allowed to help you. A shame really

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 05:22 pm
Teresa, you are smart cookie and should be able to figure out who I am rather quickly.

Well, maybe I don't want to spend much time trying to sleuth it out. And why do I need to? Why the drama? You can't answer a direct question?


If you are so in need of homes for cavies in your shelter Teresa, why did you decline my request to adopta spayed female as companion for our pet cavy?

Probably because we never have any spayed females. Tell me who you are and I'll look back.


I know that you have had fruitless meetings with breeders in California, not from their lack of willing to help, but your firm stance that they would have to stop breeding and showing to be allowed to help you. A shame really

Well, now you are really full of it. A breeder here willing to help? Ha. I've got proof of being rejected when I wanted to work with the breeders--but not for the reasons that you state. THEY are the ones that don't want to work with me. I have multiple unanswered requests for help on specific rescue situations. I've stopped asking and am no longer interested in their help.

They need to clean up their own house first, ie, their organization. Until they do that, I don't need them.


A shame really

Yeah, you showed me. The shame is you trying to blame me for your lack of adopting an animal in need. Try a shelter. They don't have adoption requirements. Since you are in my area, they are put down or left to die by the hundreds in the Bay Area.

MrsHauler
07-24-06, 07:26 pm
No actually there was a train of Holister pigs coming my way and there were spayed females that no one had "claimed" and I offered to adopt one.

No drama here.

CavySpirit
07-24-06, 08:06 pm
No actually there was a train of Holister pigs coming my way and there were spayed females that no one had "claimed" and I offered to adopt one.

No drama here.

Well, AmandaK, there absolutely were NOT any spayed females in the Hollister rescue. And there were no 'unclaimed' pigs at all that made the trip. We had Stowaway, who did the whole trip without being adopted until the end, but that was just a mixup on the road. The trip did not go directly to Vancouver, there were a few that were relayed to Pinta in Vancouver, I believe and that was it. Add to that, the fact that you did NOT request a spayed female. You 'said' you wouldn't breed her and that you needed a companion for an older spayed female. Would you like me to post the application? I still have it.

And to get on my case about not following up with you in the midst of that crisis just boggles my mind. I am aghast at the picture you are trying to paint of me as a rescuer when you are referring to one of the biggest, most demanding rescue events in guinea pig history and you are trying to make it sound like I'm irresponsible for not paying enough attention to you personally? :


If you are so in need of homes for cavies in your shelter Teresa, why did you decline my request to adopta spayed female as companion for our pet cavy? In fact I don't believe you even gave me the courtesty of returning the application, you just just ignored it. I was trying to show that I am trying to help, yet my offer of help fell upon what seemed like deaf ears. If I remember correctly I had to chase you for an answer.

Heck yeah, you had to chase me for an answer! I was juggling about 18 thousand things, people, pigs and situations at the time. Good grief.

In trying to find our email exchanges, the only email exchange I have from you is one from 2004 (TWO YEARS AFTER HOLLISTER) where I believe we are confirming some other conversation about you selling C&C cages in Canada. You thanked me for my support and I replied to you to let me know when you had a link ready and I would add it to my site. I never got a follow-up email from you.

I guess I'm okay to work with when you want something and otherwise slam when it suits your purposes. What was that about shame?

And just as an aside, I hope you did (or are still doing) well selling C&C cages and I am glad for every good C&C cage that is used well for guinea pigs. I just hope that your customers get (got) a link back to this site for more information about them.

MrsHauler
07-24-06, 09:04 pm
Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

Hm, I seem to recall that I did select that I would be happy to take a neutered male or a spayed female, even if it wasn't from the Holister rescue. Perhaps it was in one of the emails that you don't have any longer, as I remember wanting to make it clear that I had no intention on breeding the animal that was to be a friend for Happy. I think in the end you suggested that I take one of my other pigs in as a friend for her, which I did but she died of old age shortly after.


Well, AmandaK,
See, I knew you were a smart cookie.

spoonyspork
07-24-06, 09:43 pm
MrsHauler, how on earth did an adult cavy get her head stuck in a grid? Mine can barely stick their noses through, and the holes are hardly larger than almost any store-bought cage I've seen. :confused:

I would comment farther, but... nah. :)

Ly&Pigs
07-24-06, 09:54 pm
Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.I would like to note that this is a very rare occurance. I've heard of probably 2 cases of a guinea pig getting their head stuck in the grids. This is the only case I have heard of that the cavy didn't make it.

purrkitty
07-24-06, 10:02 pm
Brion, for not wanting to start board wars, this post is very out of line: The Cavy Compendium Forums - View Single Post - Please be advised. (http://www.cavycompendium.com/forums/showpost.php?p=636926&postcount=1)

Clearly Purrkitty7 is talking about my site. The day this site is run at a profit will be a thing of joy. I have so much red ink to recover as a direct result of irresponsible breeders it's not even funny.

Also, if your staff are going to post stuff like this as an attack on our forum (you don't need to name names, we all know this is in reference to cavycages.com) then you are leaving yourself wide open for us to really set the record straight. This is what I mean about forum wars.

I didn't know your Dad or Mom ran the site!



I thought it was your site and forum. Hmmm. You are user number 1. Purrkitty7 is user number 48. I know there was some weird history with the site that I don't remember. Now I'm curious as to who is really running the show over there.

MrsHauler, why do you need to hide behind a new identity? Brion didn't. Stipma says she didn't, although I don't know why she felt the need to reregister when she is an active member here. So, who are you on CC?

Also, we have published guidelines when it comes to bannings and such. AND our members generally receive three warnings prior to banning (or vacation!). We keep track of all notifications of warnings. When we ban someone, we now post the information publicly, so that our membership and the public can see that we are not being capricious. And we generally leave up the threads that are in contention. You won't see us remove threads or posts that are pro-breeding or in hot debate.

Yes, everyone gets to run their forums and sites the way they see fit. For all the talk about having a happy place where all opinions count, I'd rather have a bit more of an open democracy and a place run with honesty rather than a seemingly happy place, but only when you tow the party line and freedom of expression is squelched.

So rather than sweeping generalizations, I'm referencing an exact thread, posted by an administrator.

Brion, most of us here believe strongly in animal welfare issues. To have your administrator dismiss us as fanatics is in fact a blanket personal attack on all of us--the one thing that you say you don't abide.

Well, well, Teresa are you an adult? I only ask because of the grade schoolish remark about Mom or Dad running the show. To answer you as Mom:sarcastic NO I do not run the show my son and a few others do that quit well (sadly we lost one of our most able PCfew and a person can only hope to meet a women like her in their lifetime.) I do not have time to run the show as none of us do alone we all have jobs and homes to tend to. I am employed full time have a 7 year old, a wonderful hubby and a big home to look after, so no I don't run the show as you so childishly stated in your attempt to slur my son.
I joined here to answer that babified little dig myself, Please be advised was not solely for you no matter to what level you have elevated your site in your mind, but rather to all joining from anti-breeding sites, and trying to clone their site on Cavy Compendium, or press their biased views forcefully on it's members.

salana
07-24-06, 11:22 pm
THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

Really? What was this pig's name?

LobsterOverlord
07-24-06, 11:40 pm
Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.


OK, so how many sows have you seen die from having given birth? And that hasn't made you stop breeding?

John M>2¢hing

salana
07-24-06, 11:40 pm
Also, what date did this pig die? What brand of grids were you using, how much did this pig weigh, and do you have a picture of her?

CavySpirit
07-25-06, 01:24 am
Well, well, Teresa are you an adult? I only ask because of the grade schoolish remark about Mom or Dad running the show. To answer you as Mom:sarcastic NO I do not run the show my son and a few others do that quit well (sadly we lost one of our most able PCfew and a person can only hope to meet a women like her in their lifetime.) I do not have time to run the show as none of us do alone we all have jobs and homes to tend to. I am employed full time have a 7 year old, a wonderful hubby and a big home to look after, so no I don't run the show as you so childishly stated in your attempt to slur my son.
I joined here to answer that babified little dig myself, Please be advised was not solely for you no matter to what level you have elevated your site in your mind, but rather to all joining from anti-breeding sites, and trying to clone their site on Cavy Compendium, or press their biased views forcefully on it's members.

This just gets better and better.

Excuse me, but my comment, "I didn't know your Dad or Mom ran the site!" was NOT intended as an attempt to slur your son. YOU said, "My son created this site because he wanted to help pet owners, and he pays to keep this site running,..." I found that perplexing coming from an 'administrator' of his site. So, clearly, you were saying that YOU are his mother. YOU are an administrator. You want to tell me how being his Mom or Dad (I did not know your sex, really) is grade-schoolish? It was a simple, honest question, nothing more--which he answered. You clearly read it with your own biases. Brion and I have exchanged private emails. I have been nothing but respectful to him here, in private, and on his forum. From my perspective, we get along fine. Always have. He knows I respect him. You on the other hand, I can totally do without, mother or no.


I am employed full time have a 7 year old, a wonderful hubby and a big home to look after, Like we all don't have lives? Give me a break. It's a good thing, then, that you don't run the show. I can't even understand half of your postings. But I'm sure you are a great Mom, have a great job, are a wonderful wife, and a have a big, wonderful well-kept house. We all do what we do best, I suppose.


I joined here to answer that babified little dig myself, Please be advised was not solely for you no matter to what level you have elevated your site in your mind, but rather to all joining from anti-breeding sites, and trying to clone their site on Cavy Compendium, or press their biased views forcefully on it's members.

Huh? So, you come here, misread a very innocent question, insult me some more, and have the nerve to try to take the high road on your very insulting and inflammatory post about our forum over on your site (The Cavy Compendium Forums - View Single Post - Please be advised. (http://www.cavycompendium.com/forums/showpost.php?p=636926&postcount=1)).



Moving right along..... Next?

CavySpirit
07-25-06, 09:08 am
Actually I never followed up with you after one of my purchased cavies died in a C&C cage and I decided not to promote them. THis was an adult cavy that got her head stuck and suffocated in the grids.

Normal sized-grids, normal on the small side adult cavy with long nose:
http://www.doominous.org/pigs/jackieloveyouup.jpg

The warning about babies, young and very small adults has been on the main page of the site for ages along with what to do to make the cage safe even for those pigs.


Hm, I seem to recall that I did select that I would be happy to take a neutered male or a spayed female, even if it wasn't from the Holister rescue.

Sorry, your recollection is faulty. I have my emails from that time period and your two interactions with the process I put together at that time, which were fine. You did make it clear that you 'said' you wouldn't breed a rescue pig. I never doubted that you would if you said you wouldn't. That was never the point. Point was, we didn't need to send any pigs to any breeders because they were all spoken for by non-breeding adopters.

tweetypie
07-25-06, 12:40 pm
we didn't need to send any pigs to any breeders because they were all spoken for by non-breeding adopters.

I am sure none of us will ever agree with everything 100% ok even 50% on times. :p

We all know were we stand or breeding and rescue members, But knowing Amanda like I do I know that she would of giving a great home to a rescue pig, She had already stated that she wouldn't breed and you said that you was ok with that.

I am sure that even you know that some breeders would gave a rescue pig a better home than some rescue place. Even if its only a small number there are some caring breeders out there.

CavySpirit
07-25-06, 02:45 pm
I am sure none of us will ever agree with everything 100% ok even 50% on times. :p

We all know were we stand or breeding and rescue members, But knowing Amanda like I do I know that she would of giving a great home to a rescue pig, She had already stated that she wouldn't breed and you said that you was ok with that.

I am sure that even you know that some breeders would gave a rescue pig a better home than some rescue place. Even if its only a small number there are some caring breeders out there.


you said that you was ok with that.

I said, I believe her word. I was not calling her a liar. I never did. Again, that was never the point. If Amanda wants to give a home to a pig in need, great. There are plenty in need near her. Responsible rescues do not adopt out to breeders--especially in the midst of an international media-frenzy rescue situation caused by a breeder. I don't feel like going into the whole Hollister situation. If you want to read more about it, there is lot of reading and viewing available here (http://cavyspirit.com/hollister.htm).


I am sure that even you know that some breeders would gave a rescue pig a better home than some rescue place.

And if the breeder stopped breeding, perhaps the rescue place wouldn't need to exist in the first place. Instead of breeding, the breeder could just adopt those pigs in need, thereby putting that awful rescue place out of business.

purrkitty
07-25-06, 03:30 pm
This just gets better and better.

Excuse me, but my comment, "I didn't know your Dad or Mom ran the site!" was NOT intended as an attempt to slur your son. YOU said, "My son created this site because he wanted to help pet owners, and he pays to keep this site running,..." I found that perplexing coming from an 'administrator' of his site. So, clearly, you were saying that YOU are his mother. YOU are an administrator. You want to tell me how being his Mom or Dad (I did not know your sex, really) is grade-schoolish? It was a simple, honest question, nothing more--which he answered. You clearly read it with your own biases. Brion and I have exchanged private emails. I have been nothing but respectful to him here, in private, and on his forum. From my perspective, we get along fine. Always have. He knows I respect him. You on the other hand, I can totally do without, mother or no.

Like we all don't have lives? Give me a break. It's a good thing, then, that you don't run the show. I can't even understand half of your postings. But I'm sure you are a great Mom, have a great job, are a wonderful wife, and a have a big, wonderful well-kept house. We all do what we do best, I suppose.



Huh? So, you come here, misread a very innocent question, insult me some more, and have the nerve to try to take the high road on your very insulting and inflammatory post about our forum over on your site (The Cavy Compendium Forums - View Single Post - Please be advised. (http://www.cavycompendium.com/forums/showpost.php?p=636926&postcount=1)).



Moving right along..... Next?

Well I'm real sorry I did not keep my posts to one syllable words, so that my verbage did not stump you. But believe me when I say NO One with an IQ above their shoe size believes the comment about Mom or Dad done in public(not as an email or pm, mind you) was meant as anything but a petty dig. So grow up, and use the dictionary if any of this is beyond you.

CavySpirit
07-25-06, 05:08 pm
You know, I don't know who the hell you think you are, but you don't get to come on my forum, insult me and my intelligence and tell me to grow up. You really are a piece of work. If I were to pull the same crap on your forum, I'd be banned immediately.


Well I'm real sorry I did not keep my posts to one syllable words How about sticking to words that are somewhere in the dictionary rather than making them up: babified.
so that my verbage did not stump you.I love that you misspelled verbiage. Your grammar, spelling, capitalization, punctuation and general ability to write with any kind of clarity all sucks, and that's a fact.
So grow up, and use the dictionary if any of this is beyond you.You are too funny.

And again, I'm sorry you seem to find being Brion's Mom or Dad somehow offensive. I don't. And if you did or are sensitive to being his Mom and being an administrator of his forum, then perhaps you shouldn't discuss it in public for the world to see.

Your posts are now moderated. The insults and personal attacks stop.

salana
07-25-06, 06:48 pm
I asked about the grid brand she used because I believe there's a brand of grids with wider spacing. The normal ones in the US (Creative Cubes and the like) are 14" with 9 openings, so the openings are only a little more than 1" wide. I doubt any adult guinea pig of normal size could get more than the tip of their nose and mouth through a grid.

The majority of people we have seen claiming that guinea pigs get stuck in the grids do not have any details to verify this; it is usually "someone I know" or "someone my friend knows". I want to get to the source of this. If the source is this pig of AmandaK's, I want to know the date, the brand of grids, the name of the pig, and a picture of her. I mean, sure, she could lie, but what would be her purpose for doing that? Who is so sad that they would manufacture a lie to discredit guinea pig cages?

MrsHauler
07-25-06, 07:04 pm
Salana, I believed the family that purchased the sow from me called her Pebbles, I didn't record the date of death, I just remember it was in early 05. No I don't have a weight on her, nor do I have any other records as she wasn't in my ownership at the time. I looked at my records and she was just shy of 6 months when she was killed by the grids. They came home to find her with her head through a grid and stone cold dead. THey had only been gone for the day at work. No I don't have the grid name either.

I have also stopped encouraging people allow their cavies to have floor time as another pig was crushed when a futon crashed onto her. They had no previous knowledge that there was a problem with the frame and there was not anyone on it at the time. She was being supervised at the time.

I do encourage people to make cages out of coroplast with higher sides to contain the cavies.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your questions to your satisfaction, I had no idea that at some point I would be subject to an inquisition lol!

Lobsteroverlord, I have only had two sows die from complications in pregnancy/delivery. Pretty good ratio considering I have roughly 30 litters in a year and I have been breeding this many litters for 4+ years.

PiggieMom
07-25-06, 07:10 pm
Lobsteroverlord, I have only had two sows die from complications in pregnancy/delivery. Pretty good ratio considering I have roughly 30 litters in a year and I have been breeding this many litters for 4+ years.

Only two? That's two too many for me.

salana
07-25-06, 07:11 pm
Surely the benefits of larger cages and exercise time outweigh the dangers of specific situations.

It does sound like this pig may have needed a babyproofed cage, and I believe there is a larger brand of grids sold in Canada. There's a warning against those on the site, I believe, as well as plenty of instructions to babyproof.

And could you not advise people to create a floortime area without large pieces of furniture for the cavies to hide under? I mean, we already advise to block off areas that are dangerous, after all.

Still, I have to wonder why you have stopped advocating C&C cages and floortime after only one death from each. How many breeding deaths would be unacceptable to the same extent, to you?

Ly&Pigs
07-25-06, 07:19 pm
The fact of the matter is that when people start "stating" that their or someone elses guinea pig has died as a direct result of the grids used to make C&C's is that we need as much info as possible. If there is any possibilty of C&C's being "unsafe" than we need to know the type of info that Salana has asked to be provided. The more info a person can provide gives us a better idea of cage safety. It's not an "inquisition" as you so put it, but a safety issue in my eyes.

I would personally never discourage people giving floortime. Accidents can and do happen and that is what that was, an accident. Pigs need exercise and to limit them to no floortime and only cage time and laptime does not fully meet their exercise requirements and does not give them exploration time as well.

salana
07-25-06, 07:22 pm
The cage safety discussion is continued here:
http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/cage-safety/19153-getting-stuck-grids.html

LobsterOverlord
07-25-06, 07:38 pm
How many breeding deaths would be unacceptable to the same extent, to you?

Thank you salana for taking the point I was trying to make and putting it into a question form so that they can understand it better.

John M.>

salana
07-25-06, 08:15 pm
It also saddens me to think of the many pigs that might have been rehomed in MrsHauler's area if she hadn't been breeding 30 litters a year for 4 years. At an average of 3 pigs a litter, that's 360 pigs! If all of them were placed in good homes, those good homes could have cleaned out the shelters and rescues in the area.

Susan9608
07-25-06, 08:18 pm
What floors me is that you *claim* you know of 1 guinea pig that died because of getting its head stuck in a C&C cage grid; now you no longer recommend C&C cages based on that ONE death.

You say you know of 1 guinea pig that died because it was crushed by a futon during floor time; now you no longer recommend floor time based on that ONE death.

Yet, you personally have experienced the death of 2 guinea pigs as a result of your breeding ... and you call that "pretty good."

Something seems off here.