PDA

View Full Version : Semi Vegetarians



Walks With Cavy
03-29-06, 09:28 pm
Listen to this quote from http://www.highbeam.com/library/docfree.asp?DOCID=1G1:20468484&ctrlInfo=Round19%3AMode19a%3ADocG%3AResult&ao= :

"Of those surveyed, 825 females said they were not vegetarians, 50 reported they were full vegetarians, and 195 were semi-vegetarians (no red meat, white meat on occasion). Just twenty-six men said they were full- or semi-vegetarians, so they were not used in the data analysis"

This research was done on adolescent vegetarianism, and brought to my attention the "semi-vegetarians". I thought this was very interesting, mostly because I didn't think they had a name for people like me. Any thoughts or feedback?

Susan9608
03-29-06, 10:06 pm
"Semi-Vegetarians." That's a term that's just too vague and too general to really describe anything. What does that mean? Just people who don't eat red meat? Personally, I don't consider people who simply don't eat red meat to be vegetarians at all.

There are several categories of vegetarianism. There's a vegan, who eats no animal products whatsoever. There's a lacto-vegetarian, who eats no meat but still eats dairy products. There's a lacto-ova vegetarian, who eats no meat, but still eats dairy products and eggs. I suppose there's probably a few more categories, but I think I hit the main ones.

Personally, I think that someone who cuts out only red meat for an animal rights purpose is pretty lazy in their approach. If someone cuts out only red meat for health reasons or tastes preferences, that I understand, but to say you're becoming a vegetarian and only giving up red meat, well ... I don't consider that animal rights oriented. I don't consider that vegetarianism.

Fluffball
03-29-06, 11:08 pm
I agree with you susan. Animals that are considered to have ''white meat'' are all slaughtered at the same place, are all kept in the same cruel conditions, and are all tortured and abused in the same way as ''red meat''.

To discriminate against one and the other based on taste is not supporting vegetarianism.

CavySpirit
03-30-06, 02:06 am
I agree also. 'White meat' animals bleed red blood, feel pain, have personalities and probably have souls.

CavySpirit
03-30-06, 02:08 am
Take a look a few chicken videos. Maybe that will help a move to lacto-ovo vegetarianism. Also, from a food point of view, chicken is less healthy than beef.

Percy's Mom
03-30-06, 07:02 am
I think the only thing that not eating red meat means is that you don't eat red meat. Semi-vegetarian doesn't even make sense.

Sabriel
03-30-06, 07:58 am
And it's difficult to keep up. I tried that first for health purposes. Any time I went to go buy a chicken burger or the like I always thought, "Well, what's a little beef?" And I always got a beef burger. I find just cutting it all out a much easier approach. I have also found PETA very useful for fighting those first cravings. Who wants bacon after watching "Meet your Meat"?

To me it was kinda like saying "I'll only eat a little bit of sweets".

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 01:07 pm
I agree with the others on the stance of vegetarian or not. You can't "sort of" be pregnant anymore than you can "sort of" be a vegetarian.

I am currently having an inner battle about eating fish. I guess I am what is called a pescatarian - vegetarian who does eat fish. Now, help me out here. I am not educated about this, I guess. Can you tell me what the harm is in eating fish, both ecologically and physically? Thanks for your input!

Sabriel
03-30-06, 01:22 pm
Off the top of my head I have heard that fish from some sources have high levels of mercury in their system. Over fishing of one species would harm the ecosystem and that some animals like dolphins and sea turtles get stuck in nets.

Since I can't eat fish anymore then my system will let me eat other meat I haven't given it much thought though. I am sure others with more knowledge will come along.

ScottandDebbie
03-30-06, 01:31 pm
I agree with the others on the stance of vegetarian or not. You can't "sort of" be pregnant anymore than you can "sort of" be a vegetarian.
Oh Niki..... That sounds like one of my metaphors.


------------------

If you eat *any* meat at all,
you are *not* a vegetarian,
you are a "Selective Animal Consumer".

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 01:37 pm
Debbie,

Do you have any light to shed for this "selective animal consumer?" I really would like information on fish and the harm there is in eating it if there is any. :)

ScottandDebbie
03-30-06, 02:20 pm
Well Niki,

I *really* try to stay off this thread, as my emotions go *nuts*. But, I am here, so I'll be treating my bloody tongue later... lol

I own fish. (or maybe I should say.."they own me".)
Fish most certainly have wonderful personalities.
I have even trained one of my fish to do a cute little trick. Too Funny.

I care about my fish very much.
So... for me to even *think* about eating something so beautiful and marvelous as a fish is beyond my grasping.

I am a STRONG believer that every meat eater should be *required* to look deep into the eyes of a living creature and then kill the animal them selves *if* they plan to eat their flesh. Anyone who eats meat needs to go to a slaughter house an spend some time there.

(((( Feel the animals emotions.))))
Do we not think that animals fear, and hurt? Or is it far easier to simply pretend that the meat that sits upon our plate magically appeared.

Is it right to take babies from their mothers just so we can have their milk??????

I am very passionate about this. I'll stop while I am ahead, or maybe it's too late?

Thanks Niki for offering me the floor. : ) Now, I'll go back into my corner.:eek:

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 02:34 pm
Thanks so much for your candid honesty!

I have, myself, owned and loved fish. I think that might be my problem. I see the swimmers in my tank as separate from the fish in the sea and rivers - silly, I know.

Like I said, I am not taking this lightly. I need to understand fully.

Also, you mentioned that you eat more of a raw diet. Can you direct me to a website(s) that help you with information?

Thank you again!

ScottandDebbie
03-30-06, 03:19 pm
Niki,

Hey... I have been where you are at, and understand *completely*.

About the Raw Food.
I am just trying out recipes. I'm not hardcore into this. Might end up that way, but for right now, just toying around with putting more raw foods into our diet.

I suppose you could call me a "Semi Raw Food Eater" lol


I am a vegan *Only* because of the killing factor.
Any health related bonus' I get from my diet is just a plus.

How I happened upon Raw Food was by Googling HappyCow for vegan restaurants in San Francisco.
Scott and I go to S.F. about once or twice a month. The Cafe Gratitude was listed and we have been there twice. The food was so good that I purchased a raw food recipe book. It's hard to even believe that the food is all raw, but yet they made the most delicious pie, cookies, and cheesecakes.

I am not a cook, well I wasn't, until I became a vegan. So this raw food stuff is a real adventure for us. (Scott cooks too.)

Did you check out this site. click here (http://www.purejoylivingfoods.com/)
The lady who put the raw food cookbook together owns this site.

I would be glad to share with you recipes that Scott and I have already tried, and like. Just let me know. K?

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 03:21 pm
I would be glad to share with you recipes that Scott and I have already tried, and like. Just let me know. K?

Thanks for all the helpful information! Feel free to post here or email me any recipes you have! I really appreciate it.

JarBax
03-30-06, 03:30 pm
Very interesting stuff!
I have been a vegan, which for me implied no animal products whatsoever - from meat, animal milk, eggs, leather and wool to honey. It took me hours to do the shopping - checking all the labelling for milk proteins etc.
This came about when we lived next to a dairy farm for a short while. For two whole nights and days, the cows made this awful mournful moo-ing noise constantly. In my ignorance, I thought perhaps the farmer had left them outside on a cold day/night or something. It wasn't until a day or so later that I found out that the calves had been taken away from their mothers, and the haunting sound was the mothers looking for their calves. I will never forget it. From that moment we became vegan.
Having said that, I couldn't do it anymore. Partly for my son, and partly for other reasons. We have reached ,for us, a compromise that has worked for the last 6 years or so, where we still drink soya milk, but eat yoghurt and cheese, the only meat we touch is fish. (thanks Niki for reminding me it's called pescatarianism!) I also struggle inwardly with this - but have been on both sides of the issue, and believe we do the best we can at the present time.
To aquaintances who ask, I reply that I am vegetarian. It is simply easier than going through all the detail to someone who often doesn't want to know more. On the other hand, there is often some 'well meaning person' who has a go at me for eating fish - lets me know that I am not a 'real' vegetarian...it's me who has to live (and wrestle) with my conscience. I do my best. What more can you do?

Phew. I'm exhausted!!!

Access
03-30-06, 05:12 pm
I think you have to think of people as individuals. Otherwise, where do you draw the line?

While you can't be a semi-vegetarian in the fashion described, what about someone who may eat meat only on weekends (but not every weekend). During the weekdays, they eat no meat or animal products. On a Tuesday, is this person a vegetarian? What about on a Friday?

Regardless of the answer, it leads to a contradiction. Remember that most vegetarians ate meat at one time but then decided to give up meat and become vegetarians. And I know pleanty of people who at one time were vegetarian but today no longer are. Does the fact they eat meat today change the fact that at one time, they were vegatarians and didn't eat meat?

As long as you accept these two statements: 1) At one point in their life most vegetarians did eat meat and 2) someone who is a vegatarian today may revert and not be a vegetarian tommorow, the concept becomes a very difficult one to define. Where do you draw the line? Do you define vegetarianism based on knowing or not-knowing if one will ever revert to non-vegetarianism? If so, it either becomes an impossible standard or one that you can use only for yourself, if that, definately not to label others...

That's my problem with the label, I just don't know where to draw the line and still end up with a consistent, useful definition.

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 05:15 pm
Vegetarian, defined

A vegetarian does not eat cows, chickens, fish, and other animals, including anything made with meat, gelatin (http://ivu.org/faq/gelatine.html), rennet (http://vrg.org/nutshell/cheese.htm) (in cheese), and vitamin D3 (http://vrg.org/nutshell/faqingredients.htm#d3) (added to dairy).
To avoid killing animals, some people avoid dairy and eggs (http://ivu.org/faq/eggsdairy.html). Dairy cows and egg-laying hens are killed when they no longer produce milk or eggs. Their male offspring: calves are made into veal, and chicks are thrown in the trash.
To avoid killing animals, some people avoid clothing with animal skin and hair (http://ivu.org/faq/clothing.html). Buying leather further increases killing, because it decreases meat prices, increasing meat consumption.
There are many other reasons to avoid dairy, eggs, and other products from animals. They contribute to human health (http://www.pcrm.org/health) problems. Their production is very bad for the environment (http://rawdc.org/food/envdiet.html). And, farm animals suffer immensely (http://meetyourmeat.com/). Some people avoid those products for religious reasons (http://serv-online.org/). Plus, eating only foods from plants causes fewer plants, trees, and natural habitats to be destroyed.
Some people expand their circle of compassion beyond animals with a spine (http://www.answers.com/topic/vertebrate) to include bees, and therefore don't eat honey (http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm).
Vegan means having none of the animal-derived products mentioned above.


If someone is still planning on actively eating meat in the future, they are not a vegetarian. Period.

The past you cannot erase. If you once ate meat but plan on not eating it in the future, you are 100% a vegetarian.

CavySpirit
03-30-06, 05:21 pm
Huh?

Are you a vegetarian? Yes or no.

Were you at one time a vegetarian? Yes or no.

Would you like to be a vegetarian? Yes or no. (means you are NOT one now)

"I don't eat red meat anymore." "I don't eat much red meat." "I only eat chicken and turkey."

And your point is?

Rephrase: "I would like to be a vegetarian, but ..."

Insert definition of your choice: "vegan, pescatarian, fruitarian, lacto-ovo vegetarian..."

"On a Tuesday, is this person a vegetarian? What about on a Friday?"

Come on. It means your choice of life-style NOW, not your menu choice at the moment. It's quite clear.

fourbwabbys
03-30-06, 05:22 pm
My docto's office has handouts on various medical sunjects and the one on vegetarians has semi-vegetarian, lacto-ovo vegetarian and full vegetarian, which is vegan. I was like, this is a doctor's office, they should have the right info!

Access
03-30-06, 05:54 pm
If someone is still planning on actively eating meat in the future, they are not a vegetarian. Period.

The past you cannot erase. If you once ate meat but plan on not eating it in the future, you are 100% a vegetarian.
Then would you agree that it is a definition that you can only use for yourself and not to label others? Unless you can read minds, how are you to know what someone is really thinking, whether they are just trying to earn your acceptance by saying something they don't mean or whether they really mean it? If it's a lifestyle choice based on what you are doing now and what you plan to do in the future, it becomes something you cannot attribute to others, only to yourself.

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 06:09 pm
Seems to me you might just be digging pretty deep for an argument. Sorry, but you won't get one from me. It's not rocket science we're discussing here. The terms are not hard to define. I'm not saying that I'm trying to label anyone. I'm simply asking for myself some clarification.

CavySpirit
03-30-06, 06:10 pm
Access, what in the Sam Hill are you talking about?

"whether they are just trying to earn your acceptance by saying something they don't mean or whether they really mean it?"

I'm surely not going to go around 'accusing' people of being a vegetarian. Hello? Somebody wants to lie to me earn my acceptance? That's their problem. Not an issue of the definition.

Access
03-30-06, 06:59 pm
I don't want an argument, maybe it's just I look at these types of things in a different way than most people look at them. I know enough people who were at one time vegetarians but today are not. So today whenever anyone tells me "I am a vegetarian", I don't know what to expect. I don't think you can go wrong if you try and really put your heart and soul into living a better life. I mean, someone who tried and ultimately failed is better than someone who never tried.

nikilovesdogs
03-30-06, 07:03 pm
*cue Twilight Zone music*


Sorry, I don't "get" it.

Fluffball
03-30-06, 10:58 pm
Hi niki,

I found some useful information on fish, from: http://www.peta.com/about/faq-veg.asp

"Can fish feel pain?"

Research has shown that fish can feel pain. According to Dr. Donald Bloom, animal welfare advisor to the British government, “Anatomically, physiologically, and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and mammals.” Fish have fully developed brains and nervous systems and very sensitive mouths. Fish use their tongues and mouths like humans use their hands—to catch or gather food, build nests, and hide their offspring from danger. Fish also experience fear. An Australian study found that when fish are chased, confined, or otherwise threatened, they react with increased heart and breathing rates and a burst of adrenaline, just as humans do.

Personally knowing that a fish can feel pain , I know that I will never eat them. They feel pain and feel terrified when being caught and are left to suffocate on land before being consumed. They are complex creatures and we need to protect and look after them.

I also found a very useful link on vegetarian recipes, meal plans and nutrion that you might like:

http://www.vegsoc.org/cordonvert/recipes/index.html
http://www.vegsoc.org/index.html

Faunn
03-30-06, 11:01 pm
My friend..I think shouldn't eat red beef/meat because its too unhealthy; even in Italy (out GS troop just came back) she wouldn't.

One of my veggie friends doesn't eat meat because she doesn't like the taste. Total I have..*counts off fingers* maybe 3 or 4, of coures, not including you guys ^_^; my best friend is! She even helped me start as a veggie.
So that means that I have WAY more omnivores as friends then veggies, but I still get along with them.