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Fluffball
02-16-06, 11:42 am
Hi all,

I was on www.peta.com (http://www.peta.com) and I found some interesting information on milk. http://www.peta.com/about/faq-veg.asp

In order for a cow to produce milk, she must have a calf. Each “dairy cow” is impregnated every year so that she continues to produce a steady supply of milk. In nature, the mother’s calf would drink her milk, eliminating the need for her to be milked by humans, but on factory farms, calves are taken away from their mothers when they are just a day or two old so that humans can have the milk that nature intended for the calves. Female calves are slaughtered immediately or raised to be dairy cows. Male calves are confined for 16 weeks to tiny veal crates that are so small that they cannot even turn around.

Since reading this is have cut off milk, cheese, and all dairy products from my diet. Would this information also be true to ALL animals that produce milk? Goats for example?

Can you still milk a cow without taking away her calf? Does she always have to be pregnant to produce milk? I may sound naieve I know the dairy industry was bad but I had no idea they took calves away.

Harleigh
02-16-06, 01:10 pm
This is all true, but the information about the male calves is old. They are no longer kept in tiny crates, they are allowed to free range but are still fed a special diet and killed before they become a year old. It is the same when you eat lamb, the animal must be killed before it becomes a year old or else the meat is considered too tough.

You cannot milk a cow that has a calf, the calf will not leave any for the milk industry. Another way they will keep the cows production up is by giving them hormones to mimic pregnancy, it is the reason that girls are starting their periods younger and younger, the hormones come through in the milk and when enough get into your system your body believes it is having pregnancy type symptoms.

Organic milk and cheese are the way to go if you want to keep them in your diet, it being more expensive allows the farmers to not be as demanding on the cows. Most of the time they will wean the calves early and just keep pulling on the mothers, keeping them producing (same concept for mammals).

Slap Maxwell
02-16-06, 01:16 pm
They are no longer kept in tiny crates, they are allowed to free range but are still fed a special diet and killed before they become a year old.

Not true. They are still kept in tiny stalls and wired areas where they cannot move more than a few steps back or front or barely turn around. This keeps the meat tender. There is no way farmers would allow them to free range and spoil the meat.

Emmett
02-16-06, 01:31 pm
Yes it is all true. A cow's milk will dry up after awhile and has to have a calf to freshen again. I was raised on a beef cattle ranch so I am familiar with cattle. Dairy cattle are treated much worse than free range beef cattle. Dairy cows live on concrete floors and their calves are taken away and treated cruely. A cow is great mother and loves her calf with all her heart. I quit eating meat over 30 years ago but still consumed dairy until 10 years ago when a friend that was raised on a dairy farm told me how dairy cattle are treated. He asked me why I ate dairy but not meat because it was all the same. He was right. I now do not eat dairy except for that pizza I have to just have a few times a year. I still eat eggs because I get them from a friend who has free range happy chickens. If you want calcium try dark green leafy vegetables. I have read your body absorbs calcium from vegetables better than from dairy. In fact while I'm writing this NPR had a report about getting calcium from green leafy vegetables.

ScottandDebbie
02-16-06, 02:03 pm
As a nurse I can tell you that the *hormones* that are injected into animals, *DO* cross over into our bodies.

The cattle industry is a financial *Giant* and they get by with murder.

This industry will eventually be uncovered, revealing all the horrific links between the tainted meat, and dairy, in relationship to gross human disease, and illness. It's just a matter of time.

Soy cheese is good. Actually, I can no longer tell the difference.
We drink vanilla rice milk, and like it even better than cow's milk.

Henriettaah
02-16-06, 08:23 pm
These links might be useful for the milk-drinkers amongst us, especially of the American market - http://www.notmilk.com/ and http://nomilk.com/

Fluffball
02-17-06, 02:08 am
Thanks all, I was just surprised that they actually had to have a calf in order to produce milk, I just thought they always did it naturally and milk was always there. Silly I know but thats what I was raised to believe.

I drink soy milk only now, I just have to be careful when looking at ingrediants and eating out. I never knew there was soy cheese Ill have to see if I can find some. I feel better knowing im not supporting an industry that treats animals this way. Even free range farmers, they still take the calves away which I think is wrong as nature intended the calves to have the milk, not humans.

Thankyou for the links as well and all the information : )

Access
02-17-06, 05:52 pm
I am not pro-milk, I drink only water and tea. But wouldn't they just give the cows hormones to fool their bodies into thinking they were pregnant and keep them producing milk? Or genetically engineer a (mutant) cow that produces milk all the time without having to have calves? One would believe that either of those would maximize the amount of milk produced, versus having to keep a cow pregnant.

http://www.dhmo.org/milk.html

Another thing to consider, I suppose, is that if you try hard enough you can come up with a reason not to do/eat/drink/consume anything, even water. Growing up I was often chided by my parents for drinking water b'cos of the 'drought' that was supposedly affecting the region. It's the same way with people, if you only remember bad things about people and not the good things, eventually you will come to hate everyone you know.

CuTe*LIL*CaVy
02-17-06, 10:17 pm
Is it also true that female horses are killed to produce estrogen? Or something? I cannot really remember. I remember reading in an animal magazine about many mares and foals being killed for something in their bodies. Help me out, I cannot remember what it was.

Inrun
02-17-06, 11:25 pm
Is it also true that female horses are killed to produce estrogen? Or something? I cannot really remember. I remember reading in an animal magazine about many mares and foals being killed for something in their bodies. Help me out, I cannot remember what it was.

No.
Thats PMU farms.
They're not killed, they collect pregnant mares urine to do it. And most of the farms have been shut down now due to the fact that they've found that the product made from doing so apparently helps cause cancer. They were kept pregnant, and a lot of the foals ended up in slaughter, but a lot also made very good riding horses. Towards the end there were a lot of well bred draft cross horses... still. I'm not happy to see the farms go. Didn't like them. Thought they were gross and awful.
Bah. PMU. *Growl*

ellenvega
02-18-06, 06:35 pm
But wouldn't they just give the cows hormones to fool their bodies into thinking they were pregnant and keep them producing milk?


That would be expensive, I suppose, and selling the calf off (or keeeping the female calves to replace older cows)is a big part of the business. Those little veal calves sell for a couple hundred dollars each, and I doubt farmers will part with that income source.

Fluffball
02-19-06, 01:45 am
From http://www.peta.com/about/faq-veg.asp

Because of the high demand for dairy products, cows are genetically engineered and fed growth hormones to force them to produce quantities of milk that are well beyond their natural limits. Even the few farmers who choose not to raise animals intensively must get rid of the calves, who would otherwise drink the milk, and send the mothers off to slaughter when their milk production wanes.

It is still a cruel unjust practise feeding them hormones. They produce more milk than is naturally possible causing them severe pain and shortening their life span. They are then taken away to slaughter when they can no longer produce milk, this is due to the hormones that are fed over a long period of time.

These hormones are also passed through to the consumer. Us. This means we are drinking hormones, antibiotics and other dangerous chemicals over the long term. Milk is unhealthy, and supports a cruel industry.

Im glad I dont drink it anymore.

chinnymom
02-20-06, 06:44 am
Got a question...I do drink soy milk and soy creamer in place of milk and regular coffee creamer. I have never been a fan of yogurt at all and I can actually do without cheese - it doesn't do anything for me. However, I absolutely LOVE ice cream - its just one of those foods that makes me happy inside as corny as that sounds. What kind of replacements are out there for this product. Any brand names or descriptions would be helpful as I do not want to support the dairy industry in the slightest.

Emmett
02-20-06, 02:54 pm
You might want to try sorbet or soy ice cream. There are many different brands some are really good and some really bad. I like Toffuti chocolate and Hagen Das chocolate sorbet. I also found a green tea soy frozen dessert that was really tasty but don't remember the brand.

LittleTico
02-21-06, 10:26 pm
I actually began supplementing my kids' milk diet with with soy and goats milk, after a friend of mine made a great point. She said that cows have more than one stomach, so they can digest their foods mulitple times. Obviously, my children have only one stomach, so cows milk, which is originally meant for a cow with more digesting power than humans, can be difficult to digest for some people. And my children might not be getting all the nutrients from it that I think they are. I still do feed them cows milk, as I, myself drink it; I honestly can't stand soy milk, and have tried several brands. but I feel that I owe it to my kids and the cows, to allow my children to develop a taste for soy.

Fluffball
02-22-06, 12:27 am
Thats a good point LittleTico.

I too have found it hard to try soy but it is a taste you aquire over time and you have to stick with it. Its like meat, I often ask people why they still eat it, and the most common answer is taste. If we can give up and make a sacrifice which results in saving the life of an animal im prepared to give up the tatse of meat and dairy. Its a small sacrifice to make I think.

It is hard to switch, some people suggest the flavoured versions of soy milk are better. I tend to like the light soy milk best. It isnt so ''gluggy'' and thick as the original soy and seems more like cows milk to me.

LittleTico
02-22-06, 09:35 am
Does anyone know how powdered milk is made? I have a few cans of it for my long term food storage. I am not sure how long soy milk can be stored, but powdered milk can be stored for quite some time. We do feed our kids the powdered milk occassionally so they would be used to it in a time of emergency.

And about the meat issue, my husband is addicted to it! We try to eat mostly chicken though. Some things are hard to give up, but worth it in the end.

purple_katie
03-21-06, 09:13 am
re: the post about cows having more stomachs hence more digesting power - just for interest, that is true of adult cows, but before they are weaned, the milk bypasses the first two stomachs (more "fermenting vats" than true stomachs) and enters the abomasum (fourth stomach) where is is digested. people who have trouble digesting milk are unable to break down the sugar in milk because they don't have the right enzymes.

SandyF
03-21-06, 10:39 am
Chinnymom,
Tofutti is delicious. My husband even likes it, and he is ultra picky!

csharpmajor
03-21-06, 11:13 am
Powdered milk is made from real milk. There's different ways of making it but they mostly evaporate it until it's really thick then spray it into a heated chamber. It's so hot inside that the milk droplets turn to powder and fall to the bottom. If you really want powdered soy milk I think you can order it off the internet. Just google for "powdered soy milk". It doesn't keep for as long as powdered cow's milk though, from what I've heard.