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mimipig
02-14-18, 10:56 am
Having just lost my other pig Lulu, Mimi is showing some symptoms that have me very worried...She has been having hair loss which is normal for her, she sheds typically but this seems to be increased hair loss. In addition to that I have found a couple small clumps of hair coming out when gently tugged- about 5 or 10 hairs held together on a small flake of skin. She also has some kind of "dandruff" that I have to brush off her for the past couple days. Would this be more likely mites or fungus? I am not sure where she would have gotten either of these things, other than my other pig being in and out of the vet and sometimes staying there in their holding cage? However my pig who just passed away did not show any of these symptoms, no hair loss at all etc. Which route should I go for treating Mimi? Thank you very much.

bpatters
02-14-18, 11:54 am
Fungus. http://www.guinealynx.info/fungus.html

mimipig
02-14-18, 03:31 pm
Thank you bpatters. I read through the page, I am going to order this shampoo: https://www.amazon.com/Nizoral-D-Anti-Dandruff-Shampoo-Oz/dp/B00AINMFAC/ref=sr_1_4_s_it?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1518643628&sr=1-4&keywords=nizoral&th=1
Will this be okay treatment, bathe her with that as usual but leave the shampoo lather on for 5-10 minutes?

bpatters
02-14-18, 04:20 pm
Yes, it should be fine. Just be sure to rinse her well.

mimipig
02-15-18, 11:56 am
Back again to ask a (maybe) stupid question- I have seen some other information that says that mites and fungal always go together, should I also be treating her for mites or is that incorrect? Thanks again.

bpatters
02-15-18, 12:45 pm
It's incorrect. They sometimes go together, but they sometimes occur separately. Mites always itch, a fungus sometimes does. If the pig isn't scratching, it probably isn't mites.

mimipig
02-15-18, 01:11 pm
Okay understood, so if the only treatment I am doing is the washing with that shampoo once a week is that enough? Do I need to do anything special with her cage/fleece or otherwise? I read to get rid of any wooden items, I don't have any of those but there are some chew toys made of a kind of grass/hay, should those be thrown out?

bpatters
02-15-18, 01:35 pm
Yeah, pitch 'em.

mimipig
02-15-18, 06:27 pm
Alright so the chew toys go, everything okay with the fleece just changing it as usual?

mimipig
02-20-18, 11:32 am
I've done the wash once so far but Mimi is still having dandruff/hair loss and she seems uncomfortable. She also has weepy eyes. I would like to do more whatever is possible to make her the most comfortable and treat this as quickly as possible. I'm really worried about her getting more severe, because she is also stressed from losing her cagemate Lulu. I read about using combination coconut oil + betadine to treat the dry skin/itchiness. How exactly do you use this to treat them, would I just rub it onto her skin under the fur?

bpatters
02-20-18, 11:46 am
I'd try washing with the shampoo every day for several days and see if that makes a difference. Do rinse her well.

And I wouldn't use coconut oil on a haired pig, or betadine on any pig. Betadine is very drying.

If she's itching, maybe it's time to treat her for mites.

mimipig
02-20-18, 11:55 am
Okay, I will try washing her every day. I'll order some Ivermectin and treat her for mites too just in case, although I have only seen her scratching once or twice within a couple days.

mimipig
02-28-18, 11:22 am
Hello again, just wondering if it would be alright to try this shampoo on her?
Veterinary Formula Clinical Care Antiseptic & Antifungal Shampoo
From chewy.com, the link doesn't seem to want to work. It says it's for cats and dogs, but the reviews had some people who used it successfully on their pet rats.

mimipig
03-28-18, 09:32 am
Hello again. An update on Mimi- she went in to the vet for a tooth trimming. She had a cracked tooth/some uneven wearing. They did both her cheek teeth and her incisors. Since the procedure (one week ago today), Mimi has not been drinking enough water. At first she was not able to eat her veggies well with her "new teeth" but she has gotten back to eating them normally now. She has not been eating her normal amount of hay or pellets though, and I suspect it is because of the teeth. My main concern though, is that she has barely drank any water at all since the tooth trimming. I'm not sure if the bottle hurts her teeth or something? She has touched it a few times but just barely. To compensate I have been giving more watery veggies than usual as well as heavily wetting them with water. I want to get her back to drinking normally though and am afraid of her getting dehydrated.

She has bounced back well from the surgery in all other aspects, she does not have any lethargy, she is actually very bright, active and energetic. However her poops are very slightly smaller/dryer than usual.

So what would be the best way for her to get back into drinking water? I tried giving her bowls of water instead but she just tips them over and spills them. When she sticks her nose down into the water and feels it she gets scared and runs away. Should I just syringe some water to her? How much should I do per day? The vet also mentioned something about diluting some fruit juice- is this recommended? Thanks for any advice!

bpatters
03-28-18, 10:19 am
Mine take water-drinking by spells. Sometimes they drink a lot, sometimes not.

Just continue with what you're doing with the veggies and don't worry about it.

mimipig
03-28-18, 11:37 am
Mine take water-drinking by spells. Sometimes they drink a lot, sometimes not.

Just continue with what you're doing with the veggies and don't worry about it.

Alright, thanks very much bpatters

spy9doc
03-28-18, 04:52 pm
The vet also mentioned something about diluting some fruit juice- is this recommended?

In a word......NO! Is this a cavy-savvy Vet?

I would syringe unflavored Pedialyte. The generic is just as good and quite a bit less expensive. You can buy it at Target, Walgreen's, etc. My cavies have always liked the taste and happily accepted it. Nobody (including me) seems to like the taste of the flavored.

mimipig
06-30-18, 03:07 pm
Hi everyone, Mimi has a new health issue. :( She has a bladder stone (pretty large, 8mm). I brought her in yesterday and the vet gave her a prolonged pain relief shot that she said would hopefully help her relax and pee a little bit better. Basically we aren't able to get her in for the actual stone removal surgery until Tuesday morning. Until then I'm supposed to watch her closely and if she's not peeing at all anymore (a little pee keeps kind of dribbling out of her) I'm supposed to bring her to an emergency/urgent care vet to have them try a catheter to move the stone out of place, where its blocking the opening from her bladder.
I'm worried about the next few days and was just wondering if anyone has any more tips/advice for me until Tuesday, if there's anything more I can do to help her pee a bit more or also even how I should tell if its time to bring her in to the emergency vet. Thanks in advance!

bpatters
06-30-18, 03:27 pm
Put something in the bottom of the cage that will let you know when she's peed -- a colored cloth of some kind that gets darker when it's wet. Check often to make sure she's peeing, and if she's not, get her to a vet who'll try the catheter.

Syringe her as much liquid as you can. Most pigs love unflavored pedialyte, and will readily take it from a syringe. The generic is just as good as the brand name stuff. And I've never had a pig turn down anything flavored with watermelon, so you could squeeze some watermelon to get some juice, or buy the Odwalla stuff if they have watermelon flavor.

This has the potential to turn into a life-threatening emergency in a hurry if the stone completely blocks her urethra. So keep a very close eye on her until you can get her in for the surgery. In the meantime, call around you to see if you can find an ER vet that has someone on staff who knows something about guinea pigs. Even if that person isn't on shift if you have to take her in, they can probably call and get instructions on what to do. Otherwise, ask if your regular vet would take an emergency call from you if you have to take her to an ER vet and they don't have a cavy person available.

mimipig
06-30-18, 03:46 pm
Hi bpatters, thanks for all the advice. So I should be trying to get her to drink more liquids? I was a bit worried about this since her bladder is so full already. The vet squeezed her bladder and showed me how full it was.
Our vet also said she would be available on the phone if the ER vet had questions, and they recommended us go to the university ER vet if we needed to. I'm wary of the university though because they were not good with our other guinea pig Lulu but that's where she said we should go if needed.

mimipig
07-01-18, 09:04 am
Hi just checking in again. Her poops are very small and irregular shapes this morning. Some pee is still coming out, checked her bottom is wet. I got the pedialyte but didn't give any yet, she is still drinking water and her bladder is so full so I just wanted to check again that I should be giving her the extra liquid?

I'm also unsure when I should go to the ER, should I just take her in today just in case, even if pee is still coming out? I'm sure they will have to sedate her to do the catheter and she has her surgery coming Tuesday so it would be a lot for her in a short amount of time. Should I just take her in though? I really don't want to wait too long :( Thanks for any help

bpatters
07-01-18, 09:51 am
If it were me, I wouldn't take her in as long as urine is still passing from her bladder. That means there's not a complete obstruction.

There's no guarantee that pushing the stone back up into the bladder will fix things, and even if it does, there's nothing to keep the stone from falling back into the urethra. That's a last-ditch maneuver, and you don't want to do it unless it's necessary.

If her bladder is full and she's still drinking, then no, don't force the fluids. But keep an eye on things -- you don't want her to get dehydrated with surgery coming up.

Is there any possibiity they could do the surgery on Monday rather than Tuesday?

mimipig
07-01-18, 09:59 am
I see what you mean yeah the stone could just move back to where it is now :( When I saw the vet friday she said the earliest time available is Tuesday, she checked all her surgery schedules (our vet only does the guinea pig surgeries monday/tuesday so I guess there's limited space). I'll call first thing tomorrow morning though to double check if there is any space opened up. I'll keep watching that at least a little pee is coming out and make sure she gets enough to drink. Thanks again bpatters

spy9doc
07-01-18, 10:39 am
If it is of any comfort, I previously had a sow who had both a stone and bladder sludge. We managed to flush out the sludge with syringing copious amounts of unflavored Pedialyte over a weekend, but no luck with the stone. Unfortunately, the stone lodged in her urethra and stayed embedded in the wall until she died. Other than an occasional UTI, it didn't seem to be problematic for her.

It can be less of a problem for sows because their urethra is shorter and wider than a boar's. Should this occur in my boys, it definitely would be a major issue.

mimipig
07-01-18, 10:53 am
Thanks for sharing your experience spy9doc :) Mimi showed the bladder sludge on an xray we had done of her a while ago so the stone isn't completely unexpected, it did appear all of a sudden though because she had no symptoms that I noticed until Thursday. I just hope she makes it until Tuesday now. She looks so uncomfortable sitting all hunched up :(

spy9doc
07-01-18, 11:24 am
You're welcome! Somehow our piggies always seem to have health issues on a weekend.......not unlike we humans. I know that it's difficult to see her so uncomfortable, but so long as she's passing urine, she should be o.k. Doesn't make it any easier that we feel so helpless!

mimipig
07-01-18, 01:42 pm
Yeah seriously! Always seem to have bad luck with them getting sick on weekends and feeling so helpless :( But this forum is always so helpful, especially you and bpatters, which does make it a lot easier!

mimipig
07-04-18, 11:48 am
Hi again, just wanted to give an update on Mimi. She made it to her surgery and it went well :) They got the big stone out of her and the sludge in her bladder. She's home and just on some additional pain meds and a course of antibiotics. Thanks again for the advice. If anyone has post-surgery tips for her healing process to go smoothly I'd love to hear!

bpatters
07-04-18, 12:12 pm
http://www.guinealynx.info/postop.html

And a dose of probiotics 60-90 minutes after every dose of antibiotics.

Also, if the pain meds are supposed to be given only once a day, split the dosage in half, increase it by just a bit, and give it twice a day. There's no pain med I know of that's used in guinea pigs that will hold them for 24 hours, no matter what the drug literature says.

spy9doc
07-04-18, 05:55 pm
Also, if the pain meds are supposed to be given only once a day, split the dosage in half, increase it by just a bit, and give it twice a day. There's no pain med I know of that's used in guinea pigs that will hold them for 24 hours, no matter what the drug literature says.

Same as with humans. You get that big bolus of medication when it first takes effect, and then it always seems to wear off too long before the next dose. That's how I take (and recommend taking) any pain medication, just as you recommend.

mimipig
07-04-18, 06:45 pm
I was doing the pain med just once a day, so I'll switch to twice a day then! Is there a recommended probiotic? I've never given her one before and not even sure what to look for.

wheekermommy
07-04-18, 08:27 pm
I was doing the pain med just once a day, so I'll switch to twice a day then! Is there a recommended probiotic? I've never given her one before and not even sure what to look for.

When my male was recovering from surgery and on antibiotics I got benebac. You can get it in powder or paste, I think most prefer the paste since it is easier to dose. My male hated it so I got the powder and would sprinkle it on a carrot. My girls would lick the paste off my finger so to each their own. I ordered mine on amazon but some pet stores have it.

Hope your piggy is feeling better soon!

bpatters
07-04-18, 08:41 pm
Benebac is what I use. I like the gel, and have never had any problems with pigs eating it.

But you need it now, so if you can't find it, then get plain acidophilus or kyodophilus and sprinkle it on veggies.

mimipig
07-05-18, 02:09 pm
Oh wow I actually have some Benebac, I forgot what it was. I have 4 tubes that are 1g each, its the gel. I double checked and they don't expire until 2019, how much should I be giving her, 1g tube a day?

bpatters
07-05-18, 04:48 pm
I'd give half a tube after every antibiotic dose.

spy9doc
07-06-18, 08:14 am
Why not order Bene-bac from Amazon? Buying it by the large syringe is much more cost effective and easier to administer. You can buy one syringe or a package of three. Free shipping is offered and whether you have a Prime account or not, it is likely to be delivered within 2-3 days,

https://www.amazon.com/Bene-Bac%C2%AE-Probiotic-Pet-Syringe-Safety/dp/B00F0W2DNU/ref=sr_1_3?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1469798622&sr=1-3&keywords=benebac

84987
(https://www.amazon.com/Bene-Bac%C2%AE-Probiotic-Pet-Syringe-Safety/dp/B00F0W2DNU/ref=sr_1_3?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1469798622&sr=1-3&keywords=benebac)

mimipig
07-14-18, 05:47 pm
The benebac I had was purchased from amazon, I had just forgotten I had it from before and what exactly it was. Mimi is done with the antibiotics/probiotics now. She recovered from her bladder stone surgery really well, and was eating and drinking normally right afterwards for about 4-5 days. However then she stopped eating and drinking altogether. She started losing weight quickly and got dehydrated, and I brought her back to the vet on Thursday 7/12. They gave her fluids, and said that it was her teeth which is what I suspected because she has recurring dental problems, and she had been pawing at her mouth/smacking her mouth around a lot. They were able to do the tooth burr the following day, Friday so that was just yesterday. She came to alright and we have been attempting to feed her critical care and pedialyte. She is not able to eat or drink on her own at all. She is obviously hungry and interested in food, I give her fresh veggies 2x a day and she always comes to the bowl and pushes things around, but is not able to get anything into her mouth and chew it. Even if I give her something long and skinny like a rolled up piece of lettuce and push it into her mouth, she can't/won't chew it or eat it. It's been 4 or so days now that she hasn't eaten veggies hay or pellets or drank water. She got fluids at the vet again yesterday after the dental, but I believe she's still dehydrated because she's not producing hardly any poop/pee. The little poop she does make is still dry and hard, and pee is dark and small. I'm really worried that she's slipping away. I'm doing all I can, going in and caring for her all day trying to syringe feed at least 50-60 ml of the critical care + baby food. She doesn't like it at all I have tried 5 or more flavors and combos at this point. She spits out at least half of what I squeeze in her mouth. Same with the pedialyte, I am syringe feeding it but most of it just comes right out of her mouth.

Sorry for the very long post. Just wanted to give you guys an update and of course looking for any advice at this point on keeping her strong enough to bounce back from her teeth being done, until she is hopefully able to feed herself again. I'm getting worried as she doesn't seem to be making any progress on eating for herself, and seems to be getting worse/making even less effort to try to eat the other food, always unsuccessful....Thanks in advance :(

spy9doc
07-14-18, 06:46 pm
Perhaps you already know this, but you MUST force feed her! You are a fully-grown adult and she is a 2lb cavy.........they call it "force feeding" for a reason. In addition to Critical Care, you need to be syringing Pedialyte (the generic will do and is much less expensive) to adequately hydrate her.

With syringe feeding, put the syringe in her mouth from the side and behind her front teeth......then aim it for the back of her mouth. Allow her to bite down on the syringe if she wishes. It may seem cruel, but you may have to hold her mouth closed until she swallows it. Just be careful not to choke her. Are you attempting to put too much food in her mouth at once? That may be the reason that she's spitting it out.......perhaps she has a fear of choking? We really can't know what is going one without being present.

Some cavies react poorly to dental work. A cavy's mouth is SO small that it isn't uncommon for the Vet to nick her mouth or her throat. I had that happen once and she confessed to having to cauterize his throat to stop the bleeding. Chester couldn't eat on his own for a month! I thought we were going to lose him after that, but my "miracle boy" recovered pretty well.

I understand what you are going through and know how difficult the situation may seem. Whether she likes it or not doesn't matter. However, remember that you are literally fighting for her life and need to do everything you can to get food and drink into her.

All the best......

bpatters
07-14-18, 07:06 pm
Ditto spy9doc. She's GOT to eat if she's going to survive. She'll think you're killing her by force feeding her, but you're not. You're saving her life.

mimipig
07-14-18, 08:05 pm
Thanks so much for all the tips I really appreciate them. That's so scary what happened to your Chester, I'm happy to hear he pulled through. I am giving her the pedialyte, I think I'll use it instead of water to mix with the critical care too. I just found some 100% watermelon juice too that I might try to see if she likes but I know I shouldn't give her too much sugar but am just concerned with her getting enough to eat/drink period :(

I haven't used strong force on her besides holding just behind her head and putting the syringe in her mouth, I have to be quick as she moves her head back and forth to try and avoid it. I put it in the side of her mouth and stick it a little ways back behind her teeth. I try to alternate sides. She's good at using her tongue to push the food out right away :( I'll try to see if I can get her mouth to hold shut as you say, she's really squirmy with her head and moves it side to side quickly to avoid me. I've been continuing to put 3 syringe fulls per sitting at least of the 6ml size syringe of critical care, and going back and doing that every couple hours. I know a lot of it is coming out of her mouth. I do the 6ml syringe in about 4-5 portions/squirts in her mouth and I try to do it not too suddenly so it won't kind of squirt back out. I've been giving her the pedialyte in between each syringe of critical care, how many mls should I aim for of it?

bpatters
07-14-18, 08:12 pm
If the food is coming out of her mouth, you're not getting it far enough back in her mouth. If you get it back to her molars, she'll chew and swallow.

Also, put a towel on a table so she won't slip around. Snuggle her in the crook of your elbow, and hold her head FIRMLY with that hand, partially covering her eyes with your hand. If you're holding her correctly, she won't be able to jerk away from you.

mimipig
07-14-18, 09:50 pm
If the food is coming out of her mouth, you're not getting it far enough back in her mouth. If you get it back to her molars, she'll chew and swallow.

Also, put a towel on a table so she won't slip around. Snuggle her in the crook of your elbow, and hold her head FIRMLY with that hand, partially covering her eyes with your hand. If you're holding her correctly, she won't be able to jerk away from you.

I set up a table in her room and tried with holding her as you described, I'm still having issues with her spitting out a lot of it but I will keep trying to get better at it...It is a lot easier than what I was trying before though. I tried with holding her mouth closed which seemed to help a little bit, its just at the initial point when I'm squirting it into her mouth she starts moving her tongue all around pushing some out. It's a really messy process. Hopefully I'll get the technique down better and it will be a lot more efficient. Thank you so much again.

mimipig
07-15-18, 02:16 pm
I switched from the 6ml syringe down to a 1ml syringe with the tip cut off and its made it a lot easier to feed her without it squishing out of her mouth. I'm feeding her 10ml every 2-3 hours and getting at least 60-70ml total through out the day. Is it recommended I get up during the night to feed her as well? I felt really awful this morning when I came in to check on her and she seemed to have gotten weaker over night from going the 7 hours without food :(

bpatters
07-15-18, 02:21 pm
Absolutely she should get a middle of the night feeding if she's not eating anything on her own. Maybe two, depending on how much you're getting in her. Cavies MUST eat all the time -- no more than 2-4 hours between feedings, depending on what else is going on.

mimipig
07-15-18, 02:28 pm
I'm glad I asked. I feel silly now but I assumed they sort of slept through the night like us. :(

bpatters
07-15-18, 03:51 pm
Nope. They're crepuscular, which sounds to me like a terrible case of acne :-) but actually means that they're more active at dawn and at dusk. However, they're not awake all day, and not asleep all night.

mimipig
07-15-18, 06:08 pm
I can't believe I didn't know that before. There always seems to be something new I don't know about them. I'm really stressed because we have a 6-night trip booked and paid for and we are supposed to leave on the 29th, in 2 weeks...I don't know what is going to happen. I have my mom already to take care of Mimi, but she has never done any kind of intense care for an animal like this before and she has a full time job. I'm thinking of asking her to house sit and do all the feedings she can but I'm really not sure it will be enough. The only other option I can think of is that I know that Mimi's vet offers boarding for guinea pigs, but I don't know any details about it if there is a max length of stay, if they do it even on Sundays when they're closed, if they can do the force feeding etc. I'm going to call first thing tomorrow to check with them about all that and I'm really hoping they will be able to care for her while we're gone :(

bpatters
07-15-18, 07:22 pm
There really shouldn't be any reason why she can't be over this before you leave on your vacation. If you're still having to hand-feed her in two weeks, something is very wrong.

You don't have to feed her during the night unless she's not eating on her own. You just put the food in the cage so she can get to it.

mimipig
07-15-18, 09:12 pm
I really hope so. She won't eat or drink anything on her own right now. I keep offering the fresh veggies pellets hay etc. they're all in the cage all the time for her but she hasn't touched them for 5 days or so. Well, she touched them but didn't get anything into her mouth, she just pushed things around a few times. For the last day or so she hasn't shown any interest in them at all. I tried chopping things super finely and putting veggies in her mouth but she couldn't/wouldn't chew or eat any of it yet.

bpatters
07-15-18, 09:57 pm
Food chopped super fine is not necessarily easy for a pig to eat. Slivers the size of matchsticks are easier if their teeth are actually meeting, because once the sliver gets back to the molars, the grinding motion will help pull it into the mouth back toward the teeth that are doing the chewing.

mimipig
07-15-18, 10:24 pm
I've been trying thin slivers as well, I have rolled up lettuce and put it back to her molars, chopped carrots and peppers into matchsticks etc. she just has no interest in the food at the moment but I'm definitely going to keep trying until she is able to eat it again. She just weakly spit out anything I put back to her molars so far :(

bpatters
07-15-18, 10:50 pm
Did they give her any pain meds after the dental procedure? As @spy9doc (https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/member.php?u=19714) says, it's very hard to work in a cavy's mouth without nicking something with the drill, and she may be in pain.

The other possibility is that you could flavor the critical care with something she likes. Doesn't matter what if it gets her to eat. My pigs have all been willing and happy to kill to get watermelon. Cilantro also works for mine. But blend whatever her favorite, strong-tasting food is in with the CC and see if that helps.

mimipig
07-16-18, 12:05 am
I do have the pain meds for her and have been splitting the dose into the twice a day like you guys recommended :) So far I've tried flavoring the cc with different flavors of baby food...I tried apple, pumpkin, strawberry banana, pear, carrot...I have a bottle of 100% watermelon juice though and I'm going to mix that in with the cc in the morning to try that. So far she doesn't like any of it enough to take it voluntarily beyond a few first mouthfuls, then she gets tired of it quickly.
I'm sure you're right about her mouth though. I noticed she has been drooling a lot, could that be because there is a cut in her mouth or something from the dental work?

bpatters
07-16-18, 09:17 am
Yes, the drooling could be because of an injury in the mouth.

Is there any odor to the drool? That would indicate infection.

mimipig
07-16-18, 10:23 am
Yes, the drooling could be because of an injury in the mouth.

Is there any odor to the drool? That would indicate infection.

Poor Mimi :( Yes there is kind of a faint odor, I thought it was just general mouth smell. Should there be no odor at all?

bpatters
07-16-18, 10:27 am
Well, it'll probably smell a little bit like food. But odor from an infection can be fairly noxious, and definitely won't smell like food.

If she's not eating more by tomorrow morning, I'd take her back in and ask them to have another look in her mouth.

mimipig
07-16-18, 12:40 pm
Well, it'll probably smell a little bit like food. But odor from an infection can be fairly noxious, and definitely won't smell like food.

If she's not eating more by tomorrow morning, I'd take her back in and ask them to have another look in her mouth.

Ah okay, I just called the vet this morning to update her with what is going on and I'm waiting for her to give me a call back. I'll take her in again if she doesn't improve, she' been to the vet like 4 times in less than a month now. :(

bpatters
07-16-18, 12:59 pm
This should be covered as aftercare from the dental work. I'd really push back if I got asked to pay for it.

mimipig
07-16-18, 03:34 pm
This should be covered as aftercare from the dental work. I'd really push back if I got asked to pay for it.
Well the vet I spoke with on the phone today didn't sound very optimistic or have any helpful things to say. I got an appointment for tomorrow at 2:30pm anyway so hopefully they can check out her mouth and see maybe why she's drooling etc. and get her some fluids...She's not doing as well today with the force feeding, I did get a lot better at getting enough into her mouth but she's taking a very very long time chewing and swallowing. She started shivering a lot, even though she is nice and warm held in a blanket. Now she's sitting in her cage and I just saw her making a rocking motion every few seconds. She never leaves her bed to walk around the cage or anything beyond just the couple times barely looking at food and then going back into the bed :(

Iluvmypigs
07-16-18, 11:21 pm
Well the vet I spoke with on the phone today didn't sound very optimistic or have any helpful things to say. I got an appointment for tomorrow at 2:30pm anyway so hopefully they can check out her mouth and see maybe why she's drooling etc. and get her some fluids...She's not doing as well today with the force feeding, I did get a lot better at getting enough into her mouth but she's taking a very very long time chewing and swallowing. She started shivering a lot, even though she is nice and warm held in a blanket. Now she's sitting in her cage and I just saw her making a rocking motion every few seconds. She never leaves her bed to walk around the cage or anything beyond just the couple times barely looking at food and then going back into the bed :(I hope they can help your piggie.

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mimipig
07-17-18, 04:15 pm
Thanks so much Iluvmypigs :)

The vet today gave her fluids and the long acting/3-day pain med. She also looked in her mouth thoroughly and didn't see any injuries or causes of her not eating and drooling. She wasn't sure why. She mentioned something about maybe kidney disease. We have her back at home now and are going to continue with the force feeding etc. The vet said if she's not eating on her own within 3 days that she should be hospitalized and put an IV and have bloodwork and more looking into other causes besides her teeth. I'm not really sure what to make of it or what will happen next everything is just stressful and I'm still very worried about us leaving town in 12 days. I asked the vet about the boarding they offer as well but she said she would want her to be eating on her own by then. So, if she is not eating on her own within 12 days I don't know how she would survive us being gone for the 6 nights. My mom would do her best force feeding but I don't know if it would be enough as she's gone full time at work, and she is also allergic to guinea pigs so it would be a huge thing to ask of her anyway. I'm kind of at a loss, thinking about the possibility of having to cancel the whole trip will put us out of non refundable several thousand dollars and have to cancel some important business plans as well. I'm trying to stay positive and just continue with the force feeding but so far no improvements :(

spy9doc
07-17-18, 04:40 pm
First of all, is it certain that your mother is truly allergic to cavies? Has she been specifically tested by a competent allergist for a guinea pig allergy? Most people who think that they are allergic to them are really allergic to hay.......and in particular, timothy hay. These same people are usually just fine with orchard grass or bluegrass hay. We've had a good deal of experience with this in our household.

In order to sort this out, you will have to remove all traces of the hay, thoroughly scrub the cage and everything in it, and bathe your piggy(s). People "think" that they are allergic to the cavies when it is the hay dust and spores that are residing in their fur.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. From my own experience, I understand how stressful it may be and pray for a good outcome for you and Mimi!

mimipig
07-17-18, 08:33 pm
I never thought of that spy9doc, I will check with her if that's possible. I'll bring some timothy hay over to her house and see if she has any reaction to it. Thanks!

Is it possible Mimi could be not eating because of constipation? She is pooping but they are not frequent or regular, and have been dry and small because of dehydration from all the drooling. Since the vet seemed to think her teeth should be fine I'm just trying to think of why else she is not eating. I should mention too she is getting around 60cc of the critical care a day as well as plenty of pedialyte and water syringe fed so I'm not sure if her poop should be normal at this point and if its worrying if they aren't?

mimipig
07-18-18, 09:30 am
@spy9doc (https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/member.php?u=19714), how did you manage your sleep schedule when Chester needed the force feeding for a whole month? I'm only 4-5 or so days in and the lost sleep is really hard for me, feeling very groggy and having a hard time thinking straight. So far I've been doing the feedings at 1am, 4:30am and then 8am. Each feeding takes me 45 mins to an hour, as it takes her around 3-5 minutes to chew and swallow and she only holds 1ml at a time in her mouth...When I try to rush it or put more in her mouth at a time it piles up and I get a lot oozing back out. Do you have any recommendations of things that worked best for you on feeding times at night?

mimipig
07-19-18, 10:01 am
Hi again, just giving an update. Mimi is still not able to eat or drink anything. She is still obviously hungry and looks at her food whenever I put it in the cage. I have also seen her looking at her hay and pellets. However she never even opens her mouth, she just smells them. She doesn't try to pick up or bite anything, or even lick it. I've been adding vitamin C into her critical care. I need to go get some new pedialyte because I read on the bottle its only good for 48 hours after opening, so she's having plain water and watermelon juice right now.
She's still constantly drooling a lot. I feel like the problem must still be with her mouth/teeth. The vet didn't seem very knowledgeable and when talking about treatment going forward the only thing she mentioned was the hospitalization/IV, doing full bloodwork and looking into kidney disease. However she's drooling and not eating, and obviously not comfortable with her teeth so I feel that must be the issue? I checked on the website of certified dental vets and the nearest one to me is a 2 hour drive away so I'm not sure about it but considering it. Does anyone have any opinions on whether I should try getting to this other more qualified vet? I just feel like the issue must be with her teeth still, just basing that off my instinct/observations so I could of course be wrong, but the current vet I have may not be able to resolve it. Her incisors, top and bottom were trimmed quite short so that is probably giving her so much difficulty that even if she tried picking something up she wouldn't be able to...

sallyvh
07-19-18, 12:06 pm
If you have access to a vet experienced with rodent dentistry, even if it's far away, I would be looking into getting an appointment.

Something clearly isn't right here, the drooling definitely isn't normal and it sounds like your current vet doesn't seem to have many suggestions going forward. It seems likely to me that the issue is still in her mouth and I'm concerned that the vet has trimmed the incisors so short. It's possible this vet did something incorrectly, but doesn't realize it's wrong. Has she had dental x-rays to rule out elongated roots or abscesses under the teeth?

I've had a few pigs that have had dental work over the years and we never had any ongoing issues like this. Generally they would come home and already be eating decently. Over a couple of days they would be 100% back to normal or better. No drooling, no continuous avoidance of food.

Hopefully you can find something that works and get her back to a good place. I can only imagine how stressful this is.

mimipig
07-19-18, 04:25 pm
Thanks so much sallyvh for your input! I called the vet that was 2 hours away and the first thing he said was well since you're in (my city) you should go to the university hospital. I have been there with my other guinea pig Lulu, as well as Mimi and while they are great I'm sure for many pets they haven't been great with the guinea pigs. It's a teaching hospital as well, so it will always be students doing much of the care on the pets, guided by some more experienced vets. However none of them have the dental certification or much experience on it. The dental vet told me he would give me a call back later this afternoon to discuss it more and see if he could help but its 5:30pm and haven't heard from him yet so I'll try calling him again tomorrow. I also called our vet who did her most recent dental, and they told me to come in tomorrow again. The last visit I had with them was with one of their other vets and not our usual so hoping that the vet who has seen Mimi lots of times before may have a different perspective tomorrow. She will at least get some fluids then if nothing else...She has been slowing down on chewing and swallowing even more painfully slow than before. It's taking me 8+ hours a day to get around 50ml in her, plus all of the liquid she needs, I wish I was exaggerating :(

spy9doc
07-19-18, 08:37 pm
spy9doc, how did you manage your sleep schedule when Chester needed the force feeding for a whole month?

I didn't............I simply did not get up at night to feed him. I managed to get enough food in him doing 2-3x /day during my waking hours to sustain him. He was able to eat a little bit on his own at other times. When I did syringe his food, he would often consume at least 30ml and often 60ml at one sitting.

I'm not at all good with sleep deprivation and when it came to my health, that had to come first. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to take care of him.

pigmommy89
07-19-18, 09:09 pm
I didn't do middle of the night feedings for my Dutchess when she was sick either. I fed her first thing in the morning, between jobs in the afternoon, and when I got home at night. Always made sure she had food of all kinds available in case she decided to eat something on her own, which she did once in a while. This went on for about six weeks.

mimipig
07-19-18, 09:47 pm
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences spy9doc and pigmommy89! I'm glad both Chester & Dutchess were able to pull through that long. Unfortunately Mimi isn't eating anything on her own, or drinking although I keep offering everything fresh. She doesn't even open her mouth to attempt to pick up food, even though she is visibly hungry and goes over to look at or smell it or something. Its really heartbreaking, she still comes up to the bars to beg for a treat but when I offer it she just walks back to her bed and lays down again. I think the main battle is with her constant drooling dehydrating her. She's gotten fluids at the vet 3-4 times since this all started, been drooling for at least a week now. I am giving her lots of syringe fulls of liquids 4-5 times throughout the day and a couple times during the night, its getting harder and harder to get her to swallow anything though, a lot of liquid dribbles out with her drool, she leans forward and spits it even if I have held her up for a long time waiting for her to swallow. Same with her food, where a couple days ago I was able to get 10ml in her in around an hour-1.5 hours, now I was just able to get 5ml in 1.5 hours, but I was taking lots of time for giving fluid during that. Anyway, I guess I'm just documenting what's all going on with her. I'm very worried because she had been acting very "out of it" just now when I was trying to get her more critical care and fluid. Tomorrow at the vet she can get more sub fluids, I'm going to call that dental vet first thing in the morning again too since he never called back today.

sallyvh
07-19-18, 11:22 pm
Poor girl. It sounds like you are doing everything you can, something just isn't right in her mouth. I hope you and whichever vet you visit can get to the bottom of it.

Will she eat any critical care or pellet slurry out of a dish? Also, if she isn't really into the critical care it may help to grind up some pellets and then make a slurry of the pellets and critical care combined. I had a pig who really didn't like either flavour of the critical care, but she would eat it just fine if I mixed the CC with her regular pellets that I grinded up in a magic bullet. I honestly do that combo all the time now if I have a pig that needs handfeeding. It makes the CC last longer and they all find it more palatable.

In terms of overnight feeding, if she is eating absolutely nothing on her own, you should be able to safely go 6 hours between feedings. It's not a full nights sleep, but it's better than waking up every couple of hours. Just make sure she has a big meal right before bed. I've only done middle of the night feedings a few times when I had a very life or death situation with my one girl. Other than that I would do a big meal before bed and a big meal as soon as I got up in the morning, as well as some regular feedings during the day.

mimipig
07-20-18, 07:56 pm
Thanks sallyvh, I tried some mushed pellets this morning but she had no interest :( However then we brought her in to the vet and she saw her regular doctor this time. She suggested she may be nauseous so they gave her 2 types of meds for her stomach/nausea. She has seemed to have picked up a bit since that so we're holding out hope, seeing how she is tomorrow. She was down to only being able to eat 3ml critical care per hour, but after the meds today she ate 10ml in an hour, and she also showed some more interest in the foods around her cage however didn't or couldn't pick up anything in her mouth.