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View Full Version : URI/Upper Respiratory Infection URI but Baytril Gone Wrong! Already been to Vets Twice! New Memember!



Maria_143
08-21-16, 07:35 pm
Hello Everyone, My name is Maria and I am a devoted piggy mom thanks to my first ever pig named Juliet. I have been wanting to become a member of this forum for a while because the posts here helped me navigate the waters of being a new piggy mom so incredibly well. When ever I was up worrying about Juliet at night, I would always find the posts and responses here comforting. Unfortunately, my Juliet passed away last week after her wonderful life with us. When we adopted Juliet, she had an array of health problems that we had under control for about 3 years, but it was unfortunately a stone that took her life.

And that brings me to here. After Juliet's passing, I was so incredibly heartbreaking and because I could no longer take the emptiness of the house, I went on the hunt to rescue another little life, and that's when I found my little Ginger who is 10-12 weeks of age. Upon bringing Ginger home, I could tell that she was such an active, excitable, curious little piggy. It was a week ago today that I brought her home and my have things changed. I had scheduled her first ever wellness check-up this past Wednesday with my normal piggy vet. She was so excited to see Ginger and said that she looked great, but that she was concerned about a little sneeze that she had let out in the office and said that we should treat early for a URI. Ginger was placed on .14ml of Baytril twice a day for 14 days. All was going well, the sneezing seemed to have gotten better and I felt relief until after Ginger had taken Baytril for 48 hours. She began to not want to take her Vitamin C tablet that she was horking down days before, and lost interest in her pellets. She was, however, eating a lot of hay and was still drinking water as she normally has done. Upon waking on Friday morning, I had noticed that Ginger was eating a lot of her poop. I know this is a normal and healthy process for piggies, but what concerned me was that she was eating them constantly. Still drinking water and eating hay. I thought that's strange, but just decided to watch her closely. Now yesterday morning is when everything began to worry me. Ginger did not have a single dropping on her fleece Saturday morning. I immediately called our vets and said that the Baytril was effecting her tummy terribly. Because I have been reading these forums for 3 years now, I was well aware that some piggies have NOT reacted well to it. The tech went and talked to the vet, who said to make sure Ginger was still eating her poop at the very least and had left a probiotic at the front desk for me to pick up.

I gave Ginger her first dose of probiotic yesterday at noon and by 2pm she was POOPING! I was so happy I almost cried. I continued the Baytril and the probiotic. Last night Ginger began to eat her pellets again on top of the hay and water... YAY! I thought, she's feeling better all around. However, last night I noticed Ginger was sneezing more...Uh Oh.... so back to the Vets I went today.

Before her vet appointment, Ginger has eaten a few pieces of the Vitamin C tab, her pellets (she is on alfalfa based since she is still so young), her hay (Oxbow Orchard Grass and Timothy), and drinking her water per usual. However, she began to do what she was doing on Friday and was eating her poop a LOT and when I say a lot, I mean every single one that came, she tucked under and grabbed. There was NO droppings on the cage floor as there was all day yesterday after the probiotic.

To sort of wrap my story up, I was sent home tonight with a new antibiotic, Bactrim and Cisapride. They are worried about Ginger having GI Stasis, which I know how dangerous it is for piggies. I have given her, her first dose of both and she had the probiotic as I am to continue with that as well BUT I feel really frustrated and uneasy because the vet that I saw today (my normal vet was out, but this one is piggy savvy as well), did not really answer my questions so any input here is GREATLY appreciated.

- If Ginger is eating so much poop, is this still characteristic of GI Stasis? I am so confused and I guess have lack of experience in this department because in my mind if she is able to pass the poop that she eats, doesn't that mean that things are still MOVING? Please correct me if I am wrong.

- I KNOW the Baytril caused this! Granted, I am aware that stasis can happen if there is an underlying condition but Ginger was FINE before beginning this antibiotic even with the little sneezing she was doing.

- I DID have her get a fluid injection as the vet suggested it to keep her hydrated. Since we have been home, Ginger HAS pooped, but not very much. She is eating her pellets, hay, and even ate the bit of romaine lettuce I offered her, which I am praying is a good sign. And she is drinking water as well. I have two bottles in the cage and she runs back and forth between the two.

I guess I just need some advice as to anything else I can do to make sure this little one recovers. After losing Juliet, I cannot bare to lose another over something that I feel was caused due to an antibiotic upset. So does Ginger have GI Stasis even though she is EATING loads of poop? Or does this NOT count because it is not waste poops? Has anyone else experienced anything like this after using Baytril? I have been massaging her tummy since yesterday and that does seem to help. Her belly is NOT bloated. In fact, the vet said that her abdomen feels normal because I asked if there was any bloat. I felt a little crazy in the office today because no one seems to think Ginger has an intolerance to Baytril at all, and after reading so many posts about it here, I cannot help but think why no one was really agreeing with me today. Techs and vet just said, "she may be sensitive, we give it to pigs all the time." And it's like great, I feel so much better now... NOT!

Anyways, I apologize for such a long post, but thought that some of you awesome members could share your experiences. I will try to keep everyone updated on Gingers condition. Since taking her NEW antibiotic she already seems to be sneezing less...maybe I am just sleep deprived though and am trying to be positive. Juliet had allergies (she was tested for them), so I am not THIS used to worrying about sneezing, and with Ginger being so young I am of course fearful of the worst, because she is such a loving little thing. So any input will help me LOADS.

Lots of Love and Hugs in advanced!
-Maria

bpatters
08-21-16, 07:53 pm
First of all, if she's eating and pooping she doesn't have GI stasis. Stasis is when the gut stops moving, so nothing comes out.

Eating her poop has nothing to do with stasis. Guinea pigs that are not feeling well often eat all, or almost all, of their poop. It's a normal thing for them to do, and nothing to worry about it and of itself. If they're in the cage with another pig, they'll often eat the other pig's poop. If whatever is making them sick is getting worse, or not getting better, that's the issue to address, not the poop eating.

An intolerance to Baytril means that she would be very ill, and you'd be seeing frank diarrhea, lethargy, and other nasty symptoms. Baytril often causes inappetence (loss of appetite), but that's totally different from intolerance. Pigs on Baytril should get a probiotic about 1-2 hours after every dose of antibiotic, and the owner should be prepared to hand-feed them, forcibly if necessary, if they stop eating.

I don't see that there's anything unusual going on with your pig. If I had a pig on Baytril that was eating hay, pellets and veggies and didn't have to be hand-fed, I'd be ecstatic.

But what I would do is keep a very close eye on her. Weigh her daily, preferably in the morning before breakfast, to see if she's maintaining her weight. If she's losing, she's not getting enough to eat. If she's gaining during an illness, she may indeed have GI stasis. If you don't already have what you need to hand-feed her, get the stuff together and be ready to feed her.

See http://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html for info on how to do it. A guinea pig that's eating nothing else needs 100+ cc. of Critical Care or a pellet slurry for every kilogram it weighs, every day, broken up into 6-8 feedings, around the clock. Adjust up or down according to the pig's weight, and also according to how much the pig is eating.

Just a suggestion... Your posts will be much easier to read if you don't use a bold font. And many people will see such a long post and consider it tl;dr (too long, don't read). When you're presenting a lot of symptom information, it helps the people who will try to help you if you will present it clearly, concisely, in order, and leave off the commentary. That way, we can pick out the most important stuff without have to sift it out of your reactions to the vet and/or techs, who talked to whom, etc.

Maria_143
08-21-16, 09:38 pm
First of all, if she's eating and pooping she doesn't have GI stasis. Stasis is when the gut stops moving, so nothing comes out.

Thank you bpatters! That was why I made this post. I know eating their poop is nothing to be concerned about and that is why I could not figure out why the vet today was totally convinced that she had stasis when she was still producing stool to eat. I want to thank you for your quick response and apologize for my rambling.

bpatters
08-21-16, 09:47 pm
Without reading back, did she see an exotic vet?

Maria_143
08-21-16, 09:49 pm
Without reading back, did she see an exotic vet?
Yes she did. The animal hospital that my piggies go to is an Exotic Animal hospital and I've been going there for years. :)

Maria_143
08-21-16, 10:13 pm
If any members have given Bactrim as an antibiotic let me know how well your piggies have tolerated it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed Ginger tolerates this well.

mdodge
08-22-16, 07:00 am
I've had piggies on both and they seemed to tolerate each the same.with the bactrim I did notice symptoms cleared up a little faster with one of my piggies she had a uti.

Maria_143
08-22-16, 08:29 am
Hi mdodge, thanks so much for sharing your experience. Ginger does have the beginning symptoms of a URI and I want to clear it out as quickly as possible, and it's good to know that the bactrim cleared up your piggy's symptoms faster. So that makes me hopeful. Ginger had her second dose of bactrim this morning and the Cisapride. Now I am just waiting to give her the probiotic. Sneezing doesn't seem as bad as it was so I am keeping my fingers crossed tightly this bactrim does the trick.

bpatters
08-22-16, 08:34 am
Just so you know, Bactrim is much more effective against gram-negative bacteria, which are the kind that infect the urinary tract, than against gram-positive ones, which affect the respiratory system. Gram-positive bacteria are more sensitive to Baytril. So you can't assume that one of those medicines is going to treat both conditions adequately.

Maria_143
08-22-16, 08:54 am
So you are saying that the bactrim will not get rid of the upper respiratory then bpatters? Ginger doesn't have a uti. And because of the tummy upset that Baytril caused, the vet agreed that Ginger can't continue taking that.

bpatters
08-22-16, 09:39 am
That's right. It's not at all likely to take care of the URI. It is sometimes given to young pigs for a URI because Baytril can stunt their growth, but it's just not as effective as Baytril.

IMO, and I'm not a vet, doxycycline is a better option for a URI than bactrim.

I'm not sure I understand why the Baytril was stopped. Was it just because she started eating her poops again? Or did she stop eating altogether? Or develop diarrhea?

Maria_143
08-22-16, 10:17 am
To clarify, the Baytril was greatly effecting Ginger's eating, but more importantly after days of being on Baytril twice a day the sneezing was not letting up at all. And she is a young pig, the shelter and my vet placed her at 10-12 weeks of age. So far today she is doing so much better than she was 24hrs ago. If of course, there is no improvement, I will be taking her back to the vets.

bpatters
08-22-16, 11:11 am
OK, but just so you know, Baytril almost always affects eating. It's a very rare pig that can take it without losing its appetite. You mainly get around that by giving a probiotic about an hour and a half after every dose, and by hand-feeding when necessary.

Maria_143
08-22-16, 04:49 pm
Okay gotcha! Thanks bpatters! I appreciate all of your informative input and responses. An update on Ginger: she ate the majority of her vitamin C tablet today and is producing more stool. Her eating is slowly getting back to normal... thankfully.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 10:09 am
Okay so an update on Ginger! This morning, I woke up to a cage covered in very mushy poops. I've attached 2 pictures below. I believe that it is the Cisapride in her system after 3 days and possibly a little too much lettuce. I am not giving Ginger any more Cisapride as she clearly is not backed up, but am continuing her on the Bactrim and Probiotic as directed. Still eating and drinking with no problems. I have never had this problem before with any of the other pigs, which is why I am thinking the Cisapride is what caused this since it gets things moving. Any other input would be greatly appreciated. BTW those stain marks are not blood, but from me trying to pick up the poop because Ginger was stepping in it and was getting all messy.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 10:45 am
Okay so Ginger just did these, which seem to be more formed than the other ones I found in the cage this morning...

bpatters
08-24-16, 10:51 am
It may be the cisapride, and like you, I'd stop it. I'd also cut out all veggies until the soft poop clears up.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 12:32 pm
It may be the cisapride, and like you, I'd stop it. I'd also cut out all veggies until the soft poop clears up.

Yes, thank you bpatters. I actually just called up the vet as the poop has now turned completely mush. The actual vet is going to call me back as the tech is now thinking it is probably the Bactrim doing this.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 03:43 pm
Okay, so the vet called me back and now in addition to the Bactrim and Probiotic her vet is filling another antibiotic that starts with an "M". I cannot remember the whole name, but apparently they give this antibiotic to pigs when they are having diarrhea with antibiotics. :/ The reason her vet is not wanting me to stop this antibiotic completely is because she is worried that the bacteria will become resistant to treatment in the future. Does this sound correct? Anyone ever experience anything like this? Is this a normal protocol? I feel at such a loss right now.

bpatters
08-24-16, 03:48 pm
I'd be very tempted to take her off the antibiotic altogether until her poop clears up. If it does, and she's still having URI symptoms, you could ask for nebulized antibiotic. That would pretty much avoid the gut, althrough a little is absorbed through the lungs.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 04:06 pm
That is what my heart is telling me to do bpatters. That was one of our options for today. It's so terribly frustrating because the Bactrim truly seemed to help Ginger in feeling so much better. This is the most active she has been, but I cannot stand to see the horrible poops all around the cage and I am so terrified of her getting super dehydrated. Since they are filling this stuff, I probably will just pick it up. I may wait though and see.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 07:12 pm
Just a quick update! The new drug is called Metronidazole. I did go and pick up this medication. I would rather have it on hand and not need it. Then need it and not have it. Ginger's poops are actually seeming to stiffen up on their own. She has been eating all day long, especially her hay. :) So I am hoping that is doing the trick without the need for this new medication. I am so scared to take her off the Bactrim completely, as her overall being has improved 100% since the infection and baytril incident. I might skip the night dose of Bactrim and continue per usual tomorrow morning.

jaycriae
08-24-16, 07:25 pm
Not taking a pig off of an antibiotic that's causing diarrhea because of potential future illness sounds like a bad idea to me. When I last had Baytril prescribed for a pig, the vet told me to get her off of it immediately if the probiotic wasn't enough to keep my pig's digestion fairly normal. (To be fair, she was barely sick, if it was a severe URI the vet might've advised me differently.) I'm glad to hear she's doing better and I hope she keeps eating and her poops are normal soon!

bpatters
08-24-16, 07:28 pm
Don't skip doses of Bactrim, or any other antibiotic. All that does is contribute to antibiotic-resistant organisms, and they're more likely not to work the next time. Either give it or don't, but don't give it inconsistently.

Although metronidazole, also known as flagyl, is an antibiotic, it's different than most of the others, and most pigs tolerate it without any problems. I've had to give it a few times, and have never even needed a probiotic with it.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 07:31 pm
Not taking a pig off of an antibiotic that's causing diarrhea because of potential future illness sounds like a bad idea to me. When I last had Baytril prescribed for a pig, the vet told me to get her off of it immediately if the probiotic wasn't enough to keep my pig's digestion fairly normal. (To be fair, she was barely sick, if it was a severe URI the vet might've advised me differently.) I'm glad to hear she's doing better and I hope she keeps eating and her poops are normal soon!

Thanks for your input jaycriae! It seems like that would be so, but her vet was concerned because she was on Baytril for 4 days and then has only been on Bactrim for 3, which she has improved on the Bactrim. If I do decide to take her off the Bactrim totally, I think I will still give her the probiotic. It's totally been stressing me out because I feel that the Cisapride is what kind of prompted all of this, but I know that this can happen with antibiotic use and her vet agreed with me on that one.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 07:37 pm
Don't skip doses of Bactrim, or any other antibiotic. All that does is contribute to antibiotic-resistant organisms, and they're more likely not to work the next time. Either give it or don't, but don't give it inconsistently.

Although metronidazole, also known as flagyl, is an antibiotic, it's different than most of the others, and most pigs tolerate it without any problems. I've had to give it a few times, and have never even needed a probiotic with it.

Thanks for that bpatters. I was told by the vet to continue her on Bactrim with a probiotic and give metronidazole in addition to this. I am so unsure about this... 2 antibiotics...

bpatters
08-24-16, 07:44 pm
They have different actions, and the metronidazole is unlikely to make things worse. If it does, you can stop it and continue with the Bactrim.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 07:50 pm
Well Ginger now seems to be pooping completely normal. It's as if nothing ever happened. I think I am going to give her the Bactrim and Probiotic tonight and see how she does. If the diarrhea comes back, then I will try adding in the metronidazole as directed and if there is no change, then I am taking her completely off everything. Sorry for the back and forth nature of my posts. I swear, no matter how many piggies you have, there will always be a new thing you've never experienced that arises!

Maria_143
08-24-16, 08:36 pm
They have different actions, and the metronidazole is unlikely to make things worse. If it does, you can stop it and continue with the Bactrim.

Oh okay. Now this is making sense! I couldn't really understand all the technical terms the vet was giving me, but I was basically told that the metronidazole works with the gut.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 09:00 pm
Anyone know how the metronidazole is going to help with the diarrhea?

bpatters
08-24-16, 09:14 pm
It's an antibiotic that specifically works against bacterial overgrowth in the gut. It's also somewhat effective against parasites, but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 09:56 pm
It's an antibiotic that specifically works against bacterial overgrowth in the gut. It's also somewhat effective against parasites, but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

That is definitely interesting. Well I have given Ginger her dose of Bactrim. In about an hour I guess I will give the metronidazole a try (as her poops got mushy again) and then the probiotic an hour after that. *sighs* I really hope our poor Ginger is okay. She is acting like her old self again and I would hate for another tummy upset to ruin that. I will keep updating. Thank you everyone for your help! It's so nice to have this wonderful support group! If things don't start letting up tomorrow, she's gonna be off of EVERYTHING.

Maria_143
08-24-16, 10:51 pm
UPDATE AGAIN! So I was very happy to see these poops in the cage an hour after giving the Bactrim. I am hoping that the probiotics are beginning to level everything out. I never thought I would be THIS excited over regular piggy poop. https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh.gif And of course, Ginger finally wanted to say HI!

jaycriae
08-24-16, 11:13 pm
Yay Ginger! She's very lovely, and she looks very proud of her normal little poop. Good for her!

Maria_143
08-24-16, 11:26 pm
Yay Ginger! She's very lovely, and she looks very proud of her normal little poop. Good for her!

She does, doesn't she?! https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh.gif And thank you @jaycriae (https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/member.php?u=32120) ! She's the first (what we think anyway) short haired piggy we've ever had. All our other piggies have been long haired so I am quite excited about not having to hassle with hiney care and trims https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Maria_143
08-25-16, 09:52 am
UPDATE! I am happy to report that Ginger is 100% back to her normal, energetic loving self! I felt so relieved waking up this morning and not seeing a huge mess of diarrhea in the cage! One happy piggy and one EXTREMELY happy Mommy! lol

Maria_143
08-29-16, 05:27 am
I just wanted to thank you all for all of your support and good advice. We lost our little Ginger this morning at 5am. She died completely suddenly. She was acting totally normal, eating and pooping and drinking normally. I truly feel that her little heart could not take everything she was going through or it was an antibiotic upset. If anyone can help me in shutting down my account, that would be greatly appreciated. I just need time to heal with my fur babies that I have left and am not really feeling up to being a member of this forum anymore. Thank you in advance. - Maria <3

bpatters
08-29-16, 06:55 am
I'm so sorry you lost her.

We don't shut down accounts, but threads that don't have any activity drop to the background, and are inactive after six months.

mdodge
08-29-16, 07:06 am
I'm so sorry for your loss.she's free of any illness now waiting for you running free in the dandelion fields.80416

Maria_143
08-29-16, 08:45 am
Thank you both bpatters and mdodge . I truly appreciate it. <3 It is such a horrible feeling losing 2 babies within 2 weeks of each other. While they both died for different reasons, what happened to Ginger has completely upset my entire household. I suppose that is the risk we take when we adopt any pet. We just never know. <3

jaycriae
08-29-16, 04:57 pm
I'm so sorry to hear that, it sounded like she was improving so much. :( Best wishes.


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