I was told to post my pictures for debate.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by Tomczyk

Also I was told that I might be feeding food with alot of seeds and color bits, but I am not it has no seed what so ever (cause it can cause choking) and there are no color bits and in the pictures you can see a green pea and some carrot pieces which can be confused for color bits

It looks like food with colored bit in it to me. In fact, if I had to guess, it looks like L&M Farm brand food.

However, as I said yesterday in our pleasant PM discussion, as well as in the initial warning (no infraction) I sent you it looks like you MIGHT be feeding a food with colored bits in it- might, might, might. Therefore I sent along links to the proper feeding guidelines we recommend. Never did I state it was an absolute. You have really gotten bent out of shape over this.

Originally Posted by Tomczyk

they did remove my full cage pictures as well because voodoojoint said it is a picture of an improper cage cause there was no ramp to the lower level even though I did wright in the discription that it was not finished due to there is no ramp yet to the lower level.You can see that the piggy is in the bottom of the cage .

That's nice that you stated that the cage wasn't finished. We get people that put up pictures of petstore cages all the time stating that it was the cage they used before they built a C&C cage. They get deleted and the member gets a warning or infraction. The rules are very clear about petstore cages.

Since your cage was not completed (as you stated in the description) then what you took a picture of was a C&C cage with a fully equipped petstore cage (which looks like it contains a pig) sitting on top of it. There is no ramp, no access, it's just a petstore cage. THEREFORE it is NOT part of your cage design. I saved the pictures of your entire cage construct (uncropped unlike the one you placed in this thread seems to be) and am including them below.

If you add a ramp or other access so that the pig in the petstore cage can actually LEAVE the petstore cage and enter the C&C construct then you may post photos in the gallery. Calling it a "kitchen" does not actually make it anything other then an inadequate cage though.

Originally Posted by Paula

I see. When I looked yesterday the only photos that had been removed were the ones that only showed a pig in a pet store cage.

I removed the others when I realized there was no access and that it certainly seems that a GP is being housed in that small cage on top of the large C&C.

[VoodooJoint]

Hmmm, that first photo doesn't get big enough for people to really see what is going on. Here is a link to a much larger photo. You can see what looks like a GP under the water bottle of the petstore cage

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...nt/Tomczyk.jpg

Isn't it neat the way you cropped out that part of the picture in the cage photo you posted in this thread? http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/449040-post3.html

That is EXACTLY why I decided to save those photos and clearly stated to you that you were to post your photos in this thread in the exact manner (uncropped) as you originally posted them. And you have the nerve to call us liars?

I would also like to add that it's obvious that both cages are fully outfitted to house animals separately-food/water/hay/toys and I also have to make note of the fact that the petstore cage's door faces away from the C&C cage. Adding a ramp to that cage would be a challenge like that. Yes, I'm certain you will say you were going to turn it around but why not place it into position properly in the first place. It's not like an animal is living in that cage that you would need to access right?

[Ly&Pigs]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

That's a box of cheerios in the background of the second picture, it looks like a special flavor maybe or a imitation cheerios. I haven't bought regular cheerios in forever, so I'm more familiar with the special flavors boxes LOL.

If you can see close enough in the picture, you can see the spoon, and a bit of milk splashing on the spoon.

I could tell it was some sort of cereal box, that was not the question. The question I had was what was in the box, where the cut out area was.

Originally Posted by Tomczyk

You can clearly see the Alfalfa in the box.

Not everyone can clearly make out that it's alfalfa in the box. The photo is rather small. If I would have been able to clearly make out what it was, I would not have asked.

[Biscuit]

What confounds me is how these folks that want mods to be nicer are always so rude to the mods themselves.

Those peas and carrots...did they come in the food? I guess they don't, and you just happen to chop up carrots and take green peas and put them in the food. Fascinating!

[gooberific]

I have a further question/comment.

Do you have one unaltered female and one unaltered male? And is that who are in the pictures? Because it looks like, in the second photo with the cream/white piggie and the edible log, that the darker piggie is under the log, which would make me think you had both genders together.

I don't know your story. Which is why I'm asking.

Additional question:
I think people are wondering about the bin feeder, not the cheerio box so much. What's in the bin feeder? It's purple and has a label on it still, it looks like.

[Ly&Pigs]

Originally Posted by gooberific

I have a further question/comment.

Do you have one unaltered female and one unaltered male?

From a previous post: http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/448524-post5.html

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

From a previous post: http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/448524-post5.html

That post doesn't go into enough detail, but from what gooberific said, and from that post you linked to, I'm gathering that this user either has two females together and one is pregnant, or they have one female and one male together, both unaltered, with the female being pregnant from the male?

[Paula]

She has a male and female, according to her profile:
"I have just put together a 2x4 c&c for my female and a 2x3 with a store bought cage attached to it for my male."

According to the post Ly quoted, Curley is pregnant, but it does sound like they're in separate cages.

Tomczyk, I hope you aren't intentionally breeding these animals, and if you're planning to keep the babies I really suggest you expand the cages. Most certainly get them out of that pet store cage.

[MissSofi]

Aright, this may be considered slightly off topic, but I felt I had to post this.
Although I very strong advocate the use of C&C cages (ofcourse I have one of my own) I also very strongly dissagree with such strong rules being impossed about what pictures with store bought cages cannot be posted.

I agree that in general store bought cages are far too small for a piggy to live in constantly. However, I do have one of ny piggys in a store bought cage that she will be liveing in for a week untill i get my other piggy mite treatment....she is very well looked after and gets hours of floor time a day.
I also have a friend that keeps 2 piggys in a large store bought cage when she is not home, but her piggy's get free range of her appartment when she is home (which is most of the time) So I belive it would be completely unfair to state that store bought cages are completely unacceptable. Cosidering some piggys that live in store bought cages recive just as much, if not more liberty than some piggys liveing in C&C cages...
I understand that the argument is that without explanation people might assume that these piggys are "left to rot" in store bought cages.. However this would imply that perhaps on other forums people should not post pictures of their dog on leash because that might imply that they are constantly chained up...Or that a person should not take a picture of their child with food on his face because that would imply that the child is dirty and neclected....These things, though posible, are highly unlikely and to have a rule preventing such pictures would seen to me, rediculouse....I feel the same way abot the photo posting rules in question.
Is it essential to have rules on a forum such as this one that prohibit posting pictures of abuse and neclect ,ofcourse... however I think that because it is explisitly explained and demonstrated through out this site and forum. It would be almost imposible to enter this forum without knowing that C&C cages are the ideal & that Piggy welfare should be at the top of everyones list... This in mind I do not think it nessesarry to have such stringent ruels about not posting pictures of store bought cages. It seems a bit silly to think that someone vieweing a picture posted with a piggy in a store bought cage would suddenly think that store bought cages were being encouraged, considering that practically this entire site is dedicated to promoteing the use of C&C cages, for the well-being of piggys.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread were pictures of piggy's in store bought or other cages are posted, that seems like a reasonable comromise.

There, I have said my peice, no disrespect intended by any means.

[Paula]

MissSofi, perhaps when you run your own forum with a photo gallery you can employ any rules you wish.

As for this one, as I explained previously, one of the biggest reasons we don't allow photos of pigs in pet store cages - with or without explanation - is because people come to the galleries to get ideas, and the photos are pulled at random and displayed on the main forum. Allowing photos showing improper care (which includes animals housed in pet store cages alone) does nothing to accomplish what this site hopes to accomplish - which is getting our pet guinea pigs into appropriate housing. If we allowed such photos to stay - whatever the reason - it is possible that someone would get the idea that pet store cages are acceptable. And they are not, generally.

Temporary housing or for quarantine is one thing. But if it's only temporary there's no reason a person couldn't post a picture of their guinea pig in an appropriate cage.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by MissSofi

I do have one of ny piggys in a store bought cage that she will be liveing in for a week untill i get my other piggy mite treatment.

So, by that rational it should be okay for the person who started this thread to have their pictures in the gallery, after all they "intend" to build a ramp.

I guess it should also be okay for everyone who keeps their pig in a small cage for a week, a month, a year or their entire lives as long as they plan on building a bigger cage eventually.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

I also have a friend that keeps 2 piggys in a large store bought cage when she is not home, but her piggy's get free range of her appartment when she is home (which is most of the time)

What if the pigs wish they could run and play during the times they are locked into a small toilet of a cage? I guess they have to wait for the human's schedule to allow it.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

some piggys that live in store bought cages recive just as much, if not more liberty than some piggys liveing in C&C cages...

However, ALL (not just some) pigs living in adequate C&C cages get the liberty to run, play, explore and avoid their urine and feces ALL of the time.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

forums people should not post pictures of their dog on leash because that might imply that they are constantly chained up...Or that a person should not take a picture of their child with food on his face because that would imply that the child is dirty and neclected....

Forums can set their own rules as they see fit. The cage rule here is perfectly fitting. Did you happen to notice what the website and forum is all about? Have you clicked on the homepage? Why in the world, on a forum DEDICATED to large, custom built housing, do you think pictures of petstore cages, the very types of housing we advocate against, should be placed in our galleries.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

It would be almost imposible to enter this forum without knowing that C&C cages are the ideal

It's completely amazing how often this actually happens though.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

Perhaps there should be a separate thread were pictures of piggy's in store bought or other cages are posted, that seems like a reasonable comromise.

Did you bother to actually read this thread before you replied? How about the gallery rules I forwarded you? If you had you would know that you are WELCOME to post your picture in a thread where it can be commented on.

[Ly&Pigs]

It costs a lot of money for CavySpirit to run this site out of her own pocket. She has set the rules regarding what she wants in the galleries and what she does not want. This site is about promoting C&C cages or C&C alternatives that meet the recommended sizes and not about promoting petstore cages. If someone has incorporated a petstore cage into their C&C or C&C alternative design, they can simply send the photo to a moderator to get prior approval for posting it in the galleries.

While some people may think some or most of our rules are "ridiculous" or "too strict", we have found these rules necessary. They work well for us and the site. I highly doubt the gallery rules will change any time soon.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

I understand that the argument is that without explanation people might assume that these piggys are "left to rot" in store bought cages

It's not about being "left to rot", it's about providing a space that is large enough to encourage exercise and exploration, that the pigs aren't in such a small area that they are living in their own waste and about having enough room so pigs won't fight. Petstore cages can often be used for temporary measures such as quarantine, hospital cages or travel cages. But we still won't allow photos of them in the galleries because it's not what we are out to promote.

Originally Posted by MissSofi

Perhaps there should be a separate thread were pictures of piggy's in store bought or other cages are posted, that seems like a reasonable comromise.

People can post their petstore cage photos in threads, but we are not going to dedicate a thread just so members can post their most likely too small petstore cages for everyone to look at.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by MissSofi

It would be almost impossible to enter this forum without knowing that C&C cages are the ideal & that Piggy welfare should be at the top of everyone's list... This in mind I do not think it necessary to have such stringent rules about not posting pictures of store bought cages.

The other issues have been soundly addressed. I want to let you know that you're assumption about getting to this site/forum/gallery without knowing what the site is all about is so far, far off the mark that I'm kind of surprised.

My site has 18,000+ pages indexed in Google. It has 103,000+ pages indexed in Yahoo. I have 10,000+ inbound links from various sites coming into this site/forum/gallery, etc.

People can search on hundreds of different keywords on the internet and land either on the home page, the forum page or some miscellaneous page or post or thread on this site -- not knowing anything at all about what the site is about. It happens ALL the time -- by design and intention.

And has been stated, there is no way, after spending huge amounts of money (and I mean huge) on rescue and promoting the betterment of cavies, especially through properly-sized cages, I will EVER allow crappy commercial, too-small cages to be highlighted, advertised, bragged about, displayed, etc. other than as an item as part of a larger proper cage/setup or on a post surrounded by discussion text around it.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by MissSofi

Although I very strong advocate the use of C&C cages (ofcourse I have one of my own) I also very strongly dissagree with such strong rules being impossed about what pictures with store bought cages cannot be posted.
. . . .
Perhaps there should be a separate thread were pictures of piggy's in store bought or other cages are posted, that seems like a reasonable comromise.

First I must say it is a nice change of pace for someone to disagree with the mods in the Kitchen without resorting to namecalling or hysterics. Sad that it's not more frequent, but it's appreciated by this bystander, anyhow.

The thing here is that this is a forum with a specific purpose - promoting the excellent care of small animals, especially guinea pigs. Posting photos here is a privilege, not a right, and it is absolutely reasonable that the photos here are required to reflect the specific purpose of the site. If the photo does not, there is no end to the number of places on the internet it can still be posted - Guinea Pig Cages certainly doesn't have a monopoly on guinea pig photos. And if one wants to go look at photos of guinea pigs in small cages, there are no end of them on other sites. I can't imagine what the point would be of having a section devoted to photos which don't appear to reflect quality care, even if appearances aren't accurate.

[PiggieMamaKelly]

I just can't believe this is even worth the battle. Even if you choose to house your pigs in a petstore cage, they aren't chained to it. You have hundreds of opportunities to capture your pigs on film and post it in the general guinea pigs section of the gallery. There's your lap, a chair, a couch, the kitchen floor, the bedroom floor, outside on the grass, in the arms of a loved one, etc etc etc.

Why is this worth making a big stink over?? (Or even a little stink)

[Peggysu]

I would be embarassed to post a picture of a guinea pig in a pet store cage especially since there are so many pictures of awesome cages.

I'm glad pet store cages aren't shown on here because they are unacceptable and completely against this whole site.

[MissSofi]

I have read through and completely respect the viewpoints of all who have replied to my coment. I ment no dissrespect, and will futher look int when in threads i can post pictures in threads...I did not have the time yesterday but thought it not inapropriate to express my oppinion...and though I now undestand that random pictures in the galleries can be called up for display, I did find it upsetting that the only picture I have of Moo ( which was taken befor i got her) got deleted from my profile..I am proud of my piggys, and though I am not pround the cage that picture, i am proud of the little sow in it an its sad that I cannot keep a picture of her for now...
I still belive that Piggy's kept in store bout cages but given lots of floor time have the potential to be just as happy as piggys kept in a C&C...after all piggys in c&c's still require loor time to explore because the become acustomed to, and board with, always being in the same enclosure...Just like a dog that lives in a mantion and a dog that lives in an apartment can both be happy and stimulated solong as they get enough tine outside to run and play...ofcourse a piggy in a small cage and a dog that lives in an aprtment need to be compensated for liveing in a small inviroment (ie lots of time outside, attention, exersize and stimulation)

I also agree that in is unfair that a piggy not be compenstaed and expected to spend most of their time in a small cage...particularly if it is not kept clean. Just to clairfy...I in no way am trying to advocate useing a petstore cage over a large enclosure like a C&C..I also now have a better understanding of why pictures of cavys in store bought cages are unwanted. I had just found it unfortunate that my only picture of Moo is now non exsistant...As for getting a picture of her outside her quarentine cage, at the moment that is unlikely to happen (not includeing that I do not have a camera) she is not yet socialized at all, we are slowly working on her, getting her to accept food from our hands, but just to get her out of the cage you must scoop her up and place her on the floor quickly a or she will scream and bite, once she is on the floor the will not allow anyone anywere near her and she gets back into her cage of ner own and only if she thinks no one is watching...Trying to hold her for a picture at this point would cause her so much stress i think it would be detramental to her unborn pups.
But now i'm off topic.

On a last note I found it very embarasing to have an infraction ofter an offence that was completely aciddental..Though I understand that I should have been aware of guidelines...It just would have been nice if I had some sort of a warning befor my picutre was deleted so I could have saved it...You all must understand I simply wanted to show off my pretty (if anitsocial) Moo

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by MissSofi

I found it very embarasing to have an infraction ofter an offence that was completely aciddental..Though I understand that I should have been aware of guidelines...It just would have been nice if I had some sort of a warning befor my picutre was deleted so I could have saved it...You all must understand I simply wanted to show off my pretty (if anitsocial) Moo

You did receive a warning, not an infraction, no points were awarded.

As far as giving a warning before the picture was deleted--that is not feasible. If we did that then inappropriate pictures would remain up in the gallery even longer. Technically you should have read the rules before posting. That should have sufficed.

As far as you needing to save your picture before we deleted it--your picture would need to already be in your computer or on the web in order to upload it to the site. If you deleted your original copy it is not the fault of this site since you should never solely rely on any site as a storage facility for treasures pictures or documents.

[MissSofi]

The picture was online which i uploaded to a public cumputed which will only hold uploads for the day (since i do not have a computer of my own at the moment) I was noy trying to put blame or be be combatitive, I was simply explaining myself, I appologize for any hostility this may have caused.
I belive i did get a warning.. not an infraction (sorry wrong terminology)

[MissSofi]

May I ask why the "Thanks" button dose not exsist under my first post?