quit the b*tching and do something about it

[Sparky]

i understand where you are all coming from, and i agree wholeheartedly, that the way breeders and pet-stores keep their animals is appaling. but chatting away online about how you should adopt isnt stopping the thousands of animals being bred in terrible conditions and being sold as commodities, they are just oging to keep selling, and people are going to keep buying.

i dont know if you are familiar with the diamond crisis in sierra leone, but about 30% of the worlds diamonds came from region which used brutal slave labor to mine them. i could have just sat at home and rufused to buy "conflict diamonds" but that wouldnt have stopped anything. i joined Amnesty International, a human rights group, and fought to have the kimberly process established, a system by which all diamonds coming into this country come from a fair trade background.

thats an example of making something better, but you all just complain. there are a lot of people here with strong feelings, and in solidarity much could be accomplished. campaign for higher standards for breeders, stricter guidelines for petstores, i dont know exactly, animal rights is not my forte. but i do know this is an issue, and something needs to be done, and we arent doing it...

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Many of us are doing something, by educating ourselves and the people around us, adopting/rescuing, volunteering and doing rescue work.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

Many of us are doing something, by educating ourselves and the people around us, adopting/rescuing, volunteering and doing rescue work.

i acknowledge that and commend you, but yet, that is local work, and you cant say that we can effectively communicate these virtues, on a one to one level, to the entire pet owning population.

that is why i'm saying we need to do something larger.

what? i dont know

[dagwellismypigy]

well you come up with something and let us know

[CavySpirit]

There is a new organization coming called SPARC. Small Pet Adoption and Rescue Coalition. In the meantime, it DOES help to add your vocal support everwhere. A LOT of people here are very proactive in what they do, you just don't see it in the posts.

[Access]

Originally Posted by Sparky

i dont know if you are familiar with the diamond crisis in sierra leone, but about 30% of the worlds diamonds came from region which used brutal slave labor to mine them. i could have just sat at home and rufused to buy "conflict diamonds" but that wouldnt have stopped anything. i joined Amnesty International, a human rights group, and fought to have the kimberly process established, a system by which all diamonds coming into this country come from a fair trade background.

No. It makes the problem worse. It may be well-intentioned, but diamonds themselves are the problem. Cutting the supply makes them more expensive, which just makes the monopoly even richer and also creates even more of a reward for the black marketeers and those who run the slave mines. If you want to solve a problem like this, you ultimately have to conquer the demand and not the supply. It's not a good example and shouldn't be used. And you are mistaken if you think the people here are doing nothing but ranting. Even if you adopt a single pig, it makes a difference (see the other threads on this topic).

Likewise, educating people makes a difference, as most people are unwilling to buy from a petstore once they know the facts. It's just a matter of getting the facts out there.

[Piglet]

If we didn't 'complain' on this website then how would people know that pet stores are bad? I don't know how many users are on this forum, maybe 1000, and on guinea lynx, thats 1000 more. Thats 2000 people educated on the cruelty of petstores. There are tons of other forums too - cavy madness etc.

[Treen]

I like to look at what people actually *do* to make a difference whether it's something small or something huge, not focus on what they don't do. That's just a really negative way of looking at things - of course there's lots more to be done and there probably always will be where humans are involved, but every little helps and education is no small part of that.

I know hundreds of people online who through visiting sites like this have now adopted/ fostered pigs instead of breeding/ buying from pet shops etc, and who have stopped buying supplies from pet shops that sell animals. Is that not a fantastic thing, even if they haven't gone on to do any more. But plenty have and I think it's up to each person how much they choose to/ are able to do.

[cavylover]

Its funny about what this person is saying since hes bitching about us bitching.Obviosuly buddy every single person who has found this website will adopt or buy more then one.I hope you have more then 15 in your home or you shouldn't Even be speaking like that about anything.I knopw of at least 30 people on here that at least have an organization or even just plain rescueing many for their own play.Again this site is very national and everyone who knows anything about guinea pigs or small animals knows about this just bye plugging in cavy or guinea pig.

[citronsoul]

You know, even Amnesty International needs people to get the word out & spread information on human rights offences. There are various ways in which people can help out, not just campaigning.

[sasha]

before I saw this site, I would have checked with the local humane society (which doesn't have any pigs) and then tried to find a nice pet store. Yesterday, I received an application from a rescue that neuters males, so that my stubborn-in charge-little girl can have a friend who might be more willing than a random female I would get at a pet store to play nice and be submissive, and they are going to let me bring my pig and have her meet a few of them like the dating game. I also finished my first c and c cage yesterday-5x3 with a 2x3 upper level. Things like this do make a difference, and if you have ideas to do something on a larger scale, post them here, I'm sure everyone would like to hear them. Its great that you would like something like that, but I think that everyone here is getting so upset because they already are doing everything they can think of.

[DocDolittle]

Every little thing we do adds to the effort, no matter how small. Think about it in the long run, such as someone tells her friend that pet stores are bad. Then they tell two people, they tell three people, they tell four people, and it continues. It causes a chain, and after a while, from one person making a simple comment, you have ten people that refuse to buy small animals from pet stores. I know that it may seem like it, but Treen is right, the simple act of fostering or adopting makes a change in the world, even if it is smaller than getting an organization to boycott something.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by Access

No. It makes the problem worse. It may be well-intentioned, but diamonds themselves are the problem. Cutting the supply makes them more expensive, which just makes the monopoly even richer and also creates even more of a reward for the black marketeers and those who run the slave mines. If you want to solve a problem like this, you ultimately have to conquer the demand and not the supply. It's not a good example and shouldn't be used. And you are mistaken if you think the people here are doing nothing but ranting. Even if you adopt a single pig, it makes a difference (see the other threads on this topic).

Likewise, educating people makes a difference, as most people are unwilling to buy from a petstore once they know the facts. It's just a matter of getting the facts out there.

i dont think you quite understand, the only reason diamonds are expensive is because importers restrict the flow, but tracing roots, its prevents importers from buying from illegitamate sources, and forces them to go to other suppliers, it is a perfect example.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by cavylover

Its funny about what this person is saying since hes bitching about us bitching.Obviosuly buddy every single person who has found this website will adopt or buy more then one.I hope you have more then 15 in your home or you shouldn't Even be speaking like that about anything.I knopw of at least 30 people on here that at least have an organization or even just plain rescueing many for their own play.Again this site is very national and everyone who knows anything about guinea pigs or small animals knows about this just bye plugging in cavy or guinea pig.

i think you misunderstand my intentions, and no, i have only two guinea pigs, i wouldnt be able to adequately care for 30, so i wouldnt adopt them. as i said before, i commend everyone for their efforts, and i never said you arent't doing anything.

my intention on this thread was to say that there are a great number of people in this community, as someone pointed out, there are thousands more on other forums, but logically, should we not bring this all to a head?

in england they have the rspca, and organization that fights for humane treatment of animals, is there an american equivalent? if so thats where we need to be.

local action is always great, but i'm saying something needs to done in solidarity.

P.S i dont appreciate the snarky comments "well you come up with something and let us know" i'm trying to be constructive, i'm not against you and i'd appreciate input.
thanks

[long island pig]

I am a new member and a new cavy slave. I have to say that after finding this site and reading through the "bitching" that I chose to find a 2nd piggie through rescue. I was very tempted to buy a cute little baby at a pet store until I learned a better way through this site. If everyone like me rescued one piggy...

But I have to say, that although I am happy that I rescued one little guinea pig, I worry at night about the children who need to be rescued after losing their parents/families in the tsunami. And all of the other disasters and wars that cause children to lose their parents every day in our world.

And because it is so overwhelming - it is easier to just forget the children and go about our days. It is so sad. But maybe we can be nicer to each other and stop being "snarky" (I love that word - what does it mean ? Is is like obnoxious ?) and be thankful that there are wonderful people all over the world who are helping children tonight. And try to do what we can locally - for pets and children and those less fortunate than we are.

Sorry - that was longer than I had intended - but I just re-read and I can't decide what to cut out.

[Access]

Originally Posted by Sparky

i dont think you quite understand, the only reason diamonds are expensive is because importers restrict the flow, but tracing roots, its prevents importers from buying from illegitamate sources, and forces them to go to other suppliers, it is a perfect example.

It's hard to force anyone to do anything. I'm all for labelling -- as it helps a purchaser stay informed. Just label it accordingly, inform the consumer, and let them make the choice. Just like with pigs, as long as people are educated, they're not going to knowingly buy the 'blood diamonds'.

If you can solve a problem with knowledge (education), or you can solve a problem with a threat (passing a law), best to do things in positive, and (as possible) nonthreatening ways. Passing a law and threatening those who violate it is often just a fake solution. Even if we made pet shops and breeding illegal, the problem wouldn't go away without education.

[mncavylover]

Originally Posted by Sparky

i understand where you are all coming from, and i agree wholeheartedly, that the way breeders and pet-stores keep their animals is appaling. but chatting away online about how you should adopt isnt stopping the thousands of animals being bred in terrible conditions and being sold as commodities, they are just oging to keep selling, and people are going to keep buying.

On the contrary, I never would have learned even a quarter of the stuff I needed to about breeding, pet stores, and the proper care of cavies if we didn't "chat away online" as you say.

Originally Posted by Sparky

thats an example of making something better, but you all just complain. there are a lot of people here with strong feelings, and in solidarity much could be accomplished. campaign for higher standards for breeders, stricter guidelines for petstores, i dont know exactly, animal rights is not my forte. but i do know this is an issue, and something needs to be done, and we arent doing it...

Plenty is being done, as you can see. I agree that more can always be done, but please don't say we're not doing anything but complaining. That's not very constructive as I see it.

[Sparky]

it would be nice if people read my additions and clarification before responding in a condescending fasion again.

education is indeed the key, as per my example with the kimberly process, when somebody knows a diamond is kimberly certified, they know that it is not a blood diamond. that is because pressure was put on various groups to pass legislation forcing all imported diamonds to undergo this, so yes, passing a law would indeed solve the problem. so animals could have their background certified as fair and thus inform the buyer.

it would be good in any way to create a system of kind breeding certification, and make sure people look for it, it could be easy if petco or petsmart started certifying all animals in this way to get an upperhand on the opposition, and then advertising that their animals are certified in such a way. people would know about the process. then consumers with a guilty conscience would only buy certified animals, forcing the opposition to adopt the practice too. and soon the only way to profit would be to breed animals in certified environments

thats just one idea, passing a law, though viable, is not the only option.

i'm just looking for ideas, not an argument...

[Access]

OK just a confusing statement then "a system by which all diamonds coming into this country come from a fair trade background." -- makes it sound like you wanted to forbid the sale of non-kimberly diamonds.

The thing about pigs, though. Pigs are (by definition) not a consumer item, they are alive. You do not 'buy' a pig, you adopt one. Pigs have feelings, they have needs, etc.

Certified or not, a pet store that sells animals is doing a disservice to those animals. It's always better to get a pig from a shelter. As for breeding, no breeding is 'good' breeding, period. There's no real middle ground here, you can't have a 'good' petstore (save one that doesn't sell animals) and you can't have a 'good' or 'safe' breeding environment.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by Sparky

it would be nice if people read my additions and clarification before responding in a condescending fasion again.

After a condescending post like the first one you made you can’t get out of it that easily. You can’t act like a bully and egomaniac and then say... oh, gee "education is indeed the key, as per my example with the kimberly process"

No, you came on here feeling superior...which was quite plain in your comments of your first post. *please see your quote below*

Originally Posted by Sparky

thats an example of making something better, but you all just complain.

For all we know all you do is complain... and joined Amnesty International. Of course "joining" doesn’t mean that you have actually "done" anything yourself.

You are being very presumptuous and rude. I doubt I am the only one on this board that is a member of at least one charity, group or help organization.

You see I have been a member of Amnesty International since 1988, a member of the Sierra Club since 1995, a member of Greenpeace since 1989 (was arrested in Chicago during a demonstration then took a year off collage to travel with the organization to help stop oil drilling/oil exploration in ecologically fragile regions). I have made countless donations to many organizations like the Humane Society, SPCS, Bucket Brigade. Bridge House, Tsunami Victims, and many MANY local, national and worldwide groups that help AIDS, Battered Women, abused children, Food banks, war refugees...should I go on?

How dare you point an accusatory finger at anyone! Instead of acting in that manner you should be happy that there are people that care. Maybe you should get off your high horse and try walking in the mud. It’s great that you helped the Diamond mine slaves...now why don’t you help stop the Black Hills mining for gold....the gold that those blood diamonds are set in. You see the rivers are so poisoned with Mercury and Cyanide that children in the area are being born with birth defects. People are getting cancer, the environment is getting ruined[size=2]. [/size][size=2]http://www.sierraclub.org/communities/2002report/south_dakota/[/size]

If you are already engrossed in helping some other problem in this world then good for you. I don’t need to hear about it. Just like I don’t need to hear you tooting your own horn about how great you are and why we all suck.