Arrogance and Hypocrisy?

[Noodles]

Originally Posted by daftscotslass

But in all this, who are you to say such a thing? Do you practice what you preach or is it a case of do as I say but not as I do? Do you lead by example?

Forgive my curtness but this is by no means the first time a relatively new poster has come on here and made such a post.

Oh, by no means am I saying that I am perfect. But I don't go around telling people to do this and that while I live a life of cruelty. In fact, I try to learn from others and do not share my knowledge unless I feel as though I live by that knowledge as well.

Of course, I wish I could live a cruelty-free life. I'll admit that I don't, and that's why I don't stick my nose in the air and tell others how to live their lives.

[Guinea Lover 27]

I just wanted to say, this post has helped make some really great phone call conversations from some of my friends (online and off the boards) - this post could have easily taken a turn for the worst as some of the kitchen discussions sometimes do - but everyone stayed really nice - and we got to see some people post and agree with Noodles original post - when often times - people clam up just to avoid feeling "outed" by other members with different opinions.

Bravo to all for keeping it friendly and Kudos to those of you who realize that this is a great place to be - and there will always be different opinions - and that we can still work towards finding a way to effectively communicate with newbies and uneducated individuals about better ways to care for their guinea pigs.

Even though we're learning lots more every day about Guinea Pigs specifically - remember that these books (that seem so out dated now) helped pet owners raise and keep Guinea Pigs for years and years without horrible consequences. Those old ways worked - and will still work - but there is definately a lot more - and a lot more advanced information available and we should just do our very best to educate others in a way that is less "in your face" and more constructive so that they will listen and put our advice to use.

[Justin]

I found a cartoon strip regarding tolerance.
It says; "Why is it acceptable for you to be an idiot but not acceptable for me to notice it?"

Dilbert.com - The Official Dilbert Website with Scott Adams' color strips, Dilbert animation, mashups and more!

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by Noodles

Oh, by no means am I saying that I am perfect. But I don't go around telling people to do this and that while I live a life of cruelty. In fact, I try to learn from others and do not share my knowledge unless I feel as though I live by that knowledge as well.

Of course, I wish I could live a cruelty-free life. I'll admit that I don't, and that's why I don't stick my nose in the air and tell others how to live their lives.

That's fair enough. But are you suggesting that people cannot actively promote the welfare of guinea pigs if other aspects of their life don't conform such as if they are not vegetarian or vegan?

If that's not what you're suggesting then can you show us some examples of where people are being hypocritical in such a manner?

I'm afraid it DOES seem like you're "sticking your nose in the air" and preaching to others about how they should act on this forum. If that is not what you're doing then I fail to see the point of your opening post at all. Hypocrisy, anyone?

[Flaileigh]

Now this I do half agree with. There is a considerable difference between trying to genuinely educate someone and ranting and raving. Being honest, and blunt, is not an excuse to be downright rude and obnoxious.
Noodle is totally right about this much - if someone comes here looking for help and advice and immediately gets insulted and yelled at (in a manner of speaking) they will leave. Simple as. They won't learn anything, they won't bother reading the rest of the info on the forum. They will assume we are all a bunch of extremist, obnoxious morons and walk away with nothing. Their animals will continue to suffer - suffering that could have been prevented had we gone about it the right way.

This is very true. For the past few months I've been wondering if I should join this forum or let it be. I usually just did the search for whatever info I needed and then left. From doing my searches and reading over threads, I was very shocked at the attitude some people displayed. I understand trying to talk to someone who is like a brick wall with info and does not read stickies, but some of what I read didn't seem like the case to me.

I understand the frustration, but some of the things I've read were just not helpful or an incentive for people just finding or lurking on the forum to join. People and piggies could be missing out instead of being helped along by others with invaluable information and suggestions. And that's sad.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by gpigluver14

I'm pretty sure the longest living dog was a vegan. That definitely rules out that pets on a balanced vegan diet are unhealthy.

Anybody on this forum should know that "OMG HE LIVED A LONG TIME" is neither proof nor denial of something. The world's oldest goldfish lived in a fish bowl -- one of the absolute worst habitats for any fish, much less a fish as large and messy as a goldfish.

Animals are resilient, and many survive terrible abuses and neglect. I'm not saying that a vegan diet IS abuse or neglect, simply that using one anecdote of a very old dog as your "proof" that a balanced vegan diet is unhealthy is just ludicrous.

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by Flaileigh

This is very true. For the past few months I've been wondering if I should join this forum or let it be. I usually just did the search for whatever info I needed and then left. From doing my searches and reading over threads, I was very shocked at the attitude some people displayed. I understand trying to talk to someone who is like a brick wall with info and does not read stickies, but some of what I read didn't seem like the case to me.

I understand the frustration, but some of the things I've read were just not helpful or an incentive for people just finding or lurking on the forum to join. People and piggies could be missing out instead of being helped along by others with invaluable information and suggestions. And that's sad.

Again, it's customary to provide examples when making such statements.

The difference between this forum and others I'm a member of is that here people don't pussy-foot around the point. People don't sugar-coat their responses because often they are the ones having to pick up the pieces from those who need the "fluffy" type responses. If someone is doing something wrong with regards to the care of their animal and believe it to be correct, of course people are going to tell them. The difference between here and elsewhere is that here they'll get the facts, not the fluff or what they want to hear.

[kathrynj]

What is this with folks having 'issues' with a forum. It is personal choice to come here, and if you have read the rules and guidelines, you will get a very good snapshot of what the forum is and stands for.

The fact is, this forum has extremely reliable information, many people who are actively involved in what they are talking about! If you look at the stickies, there is one about "what do YOU do for animal welfare" or something like that. If you take a look, that will demonstrate that many of the members here are not 'sitting on their high horse' but actually out in the mess left by the ignorant.

I for one am getting tired of all the 'lets be nicer on the forum' posts. If you feel bad and that you are a horrible pet owner, surely that is going to motivate you to change? Nowhere I have seen anyone get 'jumped on' for making mistakes, yet learning from them!

[Henle15]

I think the problem is with people that post the same thing over and over again and ask things about basic care that you can easily find if you read anything on this forum. Questions about diet, hay, cages, bedding...I mean we can only post the same thing over and over again until we get frustrated that people will not look for the answers to their questions before asking. I do agree that posting harshly does not work because people will just turn their head, but there is a fine line between being rude and being passionate and knowledgable.

I don't mind people asking questions, but when they are basic care questions that have been posted and discussed about before 100 million times, it gets extremely frustrating.

Plus when somebody does give them the correct information and they say or do the opposite because they don't like our information. That really gets everybody frustrated.

My last point will be this: If you don't like the way people post here and answer your questions, LEAVE (this is not a forum that you pay to use) or just read other threads on this forum to find your answer. There is about a 99% chance you will find what you are looking for.

[GuineaAddict]

I know it sounds bad, but a lot of time in new forums (I just joined a health one on lapbands) it's easier for me to post a question rather than spend hours reading through a billion posts. Then again...I'm lazy...heh lol ...I've just recently learned to use the search threads option.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by crazywiggy

...Arrogance and "turn-off":

Now this I do half agree with. There is a considerable difference between trying to genuinely educate someone and ranting and raving. Being honest, and blunt, is not an excuse to be downright rude and obnoxious.
Noodle is totally right about this much - if someone comes here looking for help and advice and immediately gets insulted and yelled at (in a manner of speaking) they will leave. Simple as. They won't learn anything, they won't bother reading the rest of the info on the forum. They will assume we are all a bunch of extremist, obnoxious morons and walk away with nothing. Their animals will continue to suffer - suffering that could have been prevented had we gone about it the right way.

To conclude, I just think being an animal activist should not mean you have to be an a**!

I certainly don't want members being rude to each other. But it never ceases to amaze me what some people think of as rude. Even so, I disagree with the position, that if they get pissed off enough and 'leave the forum' that that's it. No way. First of all, the bulk of information about proper cages and care isn't even on the forum, it's in the site and links on the site. The forum is a COMMUNITY. You do not have to be a posting member of the community to derive value from this site or forum. AND, the people who really rail against the animal welfare positions that we have and flounce away from the forum or are banned (especially the breeder types), are always coming back and checking up on things, looking for ammo and dirt to use.

If someone is so stupid as to cut off their nose to spite their face and completely ignore the rest of the site or info on the forum, then believe me, anything we are going to say to this kind of idiot is going to come across as rude. There is no hope for it. So, let them go. I do not want stupid people on this forum anyway. We can't raise their IQ and I'm not going to stoop to those levels and I don't want to waste my time trying. They can look at the pictures on the site and do what they will. Merely visiting this site for the first time is probably an education right then and there--without even reading anything.

KIDS: same thing with kids. This is why you MUST be at least 13 years old to register on the forum. Otherwise, I need parental permission. I refuse to get into debates of logic or business with an 11-year old kid. I wouldn't do it in real life and I'm not going to do it here.

[hueyeats]

Originally Posted by CF#5

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Great line!

I believe too in changes from an example that I can set from myself! If not, it is not fair to tell another to change to a view that the "self" is not even following! Then it is all talk & no actions, punish others but not yourself!

[Deenanicole08]

I completely agree that some people on this site make it bad for all, by the way they treat you. I understand not everyone sees eye to eye, but there are ways to express your opinions in a manner that isn't rude. When I first came here, I thought what a great site this is to have so much information, but then I soon felt as if just because I was new, that people felt they had the right to be mean when they posted in replies to what I had asked or said or what someone else asked or said. I felt horrible. I've decided for my pigs sake to just ignore everyone, but it really upsets me how people respond to others. It makes me wonder how they are to the people the do know, if they talk to others they dont this way. I too, feel the same way. If everyone could just think how they would feel before jumping on someone for a mistake they've made, or because they didn't know something, this would be a flaw-free site. This site was made to share information and learn and to teach right? So why treat the ones who are asking for help and helping others as if they are stupid and wrong? They're here for help.

[Ly&Pigs]

Please look at the dates on threads before replying to them. Anything over 2 months old is considered a dead thread and usually better left dead. The only time we allow threads to be resurrected are medical threads for ongoing issues because we like the pigs history and updates to be kept all in one thread or if you have a photo thread for your pig(s).

[Deenanicole08]

I didnt notice, I only saw it because It was under "New Posts"

Sorry.