Concerns about attitude to Naive newcomers - Page 3

**FoolOnTheHill** · #41 09-05-07, 01:39 pm

Yes that's a good idea, although I still think it would be good if people just scanned their post to see if it could be thought of a rude in the circumstances.

Also, VJ did say that if this was going to be discussed to start a new thread here, so I think this thread has at least let people say what they think if nothing else.

**Susan9608** · #42 09-05-07, 01:51 pm

Quote:

although I still think it would be good if people just scanned their post to see if it could be thought of a rude in the circumstances.

Almost anything can be considered rude by someone, some where, at some point in time. The point is, it's not our job to tip-toe around people's feelings. Our job is to enforce our rules/policies/philosophies and to do so in the most efficient way possible.

If there are a few people who find the forum rude and hostile, then there are a great many more people who appreciate the blunt, matter-of-fact, and unwavering line we take about animal welfare.

Like Ly said, it is not possible to please everyone all the time. Certainly no one is going to change their personality or style to accommodate the exceedingly sensitive natures of a few, select members.

stubblychin · #43 09-05-07, 02:08 pm

There are no excuses for swearing or hot headedness so I won't comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by voodoojoint

I, and others, get tired of repeating ourselves

If you are tired or repeating yourselves, leave the thread to another member to reply to. This is a large forum and there are plenty of people willing to deal with the low level queries.

I am not suggesting denying the rules and laws of this site, I am suggesting handling newcomers differently. It is a simple case of re-phrasing.

I do agree Katie84's reactions got a little too extreme, but this demonstrates how things can escalate.

On the subjects of the thread that kicked this concern off, I searched the site and found it hard to find anything really specific to sheds. Although outdoors is not condoned, sheds can occupy the middle ground and if built correctly could be considered a part of a house. Katie84 I guess came here to clarify the policy on this. Instead she was met with hostility and impatience to what she considered a reasonable question.

This is a popular forum which attracts a lot of visitors because it is informative and ranks highly in google. I think we have some responsibility to make sure those people at least leave having learnt something. If they havent listened because the perceive the reply to the query hostile (a common human reaction to hostility is to be hostile back) then something has gone wrong, and the important thing, the PIGGIES, have not had there situation improved.

Simple re-phrasing, or leaving low level repeated queries to some one who has the patience to deal with them is all that is needed.

**VoodooJoint** · #44 09-05-07, 02:21 pm

To be completely honest I did scan my post, I did see that it could be construed as rude or at least condescending but the fact was I didn't care.

Is that wrong? Maybe.

Like I said before, this is not a complete newbie. This is a person that joined a month ago and had plenty of time to read a little.

When I first joined I had my rescued pig in a tiny petstore cage. I started doing online research because it had been over 15 years since I had a pig and I knew that feeding standards, at the least, had probably changed.

I found this site and started reading. GASP! Can it be true? Can it be that I READ the site first? As hard as that seem for some people to believe, it's true. I read the site before I joined and posted one single word. I took the initiative to educate myself a bit before I started asking questions. Guess what. The info I needed was all there, on page, right before my eyes.

I was able to quickly establish that this site was about building bigger, indoor cages; that it was rescue oriented; and that it was a forum that was serious about proper pet care instead of being full of fluff. It was all of the things I was looking for. Therefore, I joined. I passed up many other sites that I came across because I didn't agree with their ideals. I chose this site because my ideals and demeanor meshed beautifully. Apparently, I fit in so well here that I was eventually asked to be a mod.

This forum is what it is. If you don't like how things are run here then become more active and try to initiate change though sweeter, gentler posting. Be a good and active example. Whining about how mean we are, when all we are doing is the job we were "hired" to do, with the personalities we had when we joined, falls on rather deaf ears.

**VoodooJoint** · #45 09-05-07, 02:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubblychin

If you are tired or repeating yourselves, leave the thread to another member to reply to.

No can do. Not with a question like that. I, or another mod, needed to jump in quickly to let it be known that outdoor housing was not acceptable before someone came on with outdoor housing advice.

I let many, MANY, other threads go that aren't as "dangerous". I do it daily. But I will not allow a thread that endangers animals go unchallenged. Threads like that need quick action before the poor advice starts flowing. I've seen it before and I'd rather shut it down quickly then try to handle damage control later.

**crazywiggy** · #46 09-05-07, 03:50 pm

I am in two minds about this issue - well actually no, I think everyone needs to calm down.

I do think that a lot of people here come across as rude and aggressive, whether they mean to or not.
I know what this site stands for, and appreciate why people have such strong views, but I think there are better ways of dealing with it. Being rude or mean is not the answer. It puts people off the forum, so they miss out on all the great info and advice that can be found here. That in itself is detrimental to guinea pigs. Not many people would choose to visit somewhere (real or virtual) where they feel intimidated, ostracised, or verbally assaulted. The way I see it, the more people you educate the more piggies you help. The more people you drive away the more piggies will suffer through poor care, caused by all the poor info out there.

Secondly, I think it comes down to basic civility. Really, how hard is it to treat people with a bit of patience and respect? I don't talk to people like that in my life, and I try not to do it on the net. There is no need for it.

However, a lot of newbies seem to only make matters worse for themselves. I do think when people join this site they should read up on the basics at least - what this site stands for, its policies and rules. I believe it is rude not to.
Equally, a lot of newcomers tend to overreact - and sorry Katie but you are one of them. Just as I believe the older members and mods should control their tempers, so should newbies. There is no excuse for ranting and raving, flouncing, swearing etc no matter how angry you are. This goes for everyone.

I don't expect this forum to be all sweetness and light, nor do I want it to be like that. It focuses on serious issues and we are not going to improve animal welfare by patting people on the back for inadequate care or misguided opinions. I just think we need to behave like civilised adults and treat people with respect. But respect also has to be earned - newbies can earn respect by reading the relevant info before posting and older members and mods can earn respect by behaving like the decent people I believe they are. We can all help eachother, and help guinea pigs worldwide, if we can just learn to control our tempers!

stubblychin · #47 09-05-07, 04:28 pm

Just noticed this quote by guinealynx, in this very section no less. Had you read this VoodooJoint? It's been on the site since 2005...

Quote:

Originally Posted by guinealynx

Please use tact when posting. Tact is defined as consideration in dealing with others and avoiding giving offence and Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending. Those are two good definitions of what we all should be doing whenever possible.

**VoodooJoint** · #48 09-05-07, 04:35 pm

Yup, I read it and in most cases I do use tact. Sometimes though I simply think my plain old words are good enough without coating them with candy.

Nothing I said, or the way I said it, deserved such and outrageous reaction. Katy overreacted which in turn lead to a turmoil.

The operative words in that above quote are what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others. I responded as I though was proper and appropriate for someone who had plenty of time to familiarize herself with this forum. Do I need to keep repeating myself?

stubblychin · #49 09-05-07, 04:42 pm

I think this has been rung out as much as it is can be. Voodoojoint, I'm glad you can listen to what people say and take it onboard... as you expect people to do of you.

**Ly&Pigs** · #50 09-05-07, 04:54 pm

Quote:

Just noticed this quote by guinealynx, in this very section no less. Had you read this VoodooJoint? It's been on the site since 2005...

I can't seem to find a member by the name of guinealynx. But in a forum rules post that I put up in 2005, http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...ing-rules.html, that exact quote is in there. Do you have guinealynx and me mixed up?

stubblychin · #51 09-05-07, 05:26 pm

Sorry that was cavyspirit that posted that. Don't know where my mind was going with that!

**Ly&Pigs** · #52 09-05-07, 05:32 pm

I also posted it but was confused when you had said guinealynx posted it. Thanks for the clarification. We all have those days where our minds aren't quite totally with it if you know what I mean.

**jabberwock** · #53 09-05-07, 06:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by katie84

I have not used unappropriate language to the extent you are making it out to be. I said one word which involved a donkey, but yet that is for you to argue over yourselves. But the whole exaggeration and lies, and stories of PM's full of curses is what I find foolish.

I'm not sure if it's OK to post this as I don't want to be seen to be cursing. It's in the interest of clarification and international understanding.

In the UK, calling someone an :censored: for being stupid/foolish is certainly not regarded as cursing. The derivation is from donkey - it's probably slightly old fashioned now but is used a lot in very respectable books including childrens' books, most often by slightly posh characters and often said by one friend to another. It's not very polite to use it about someone you don't really know but it isn't cursing. (It's not very flattering to donkeys either).

The same word referring to a part of human anatomy is much less polite and I wouldn't expect to find it in a childrens' book and I wouldn't expect my children to use it.

On the more general point, I am always amazed by how many people jump into the forum on this site without realising that the main site even exists. I found cavycages.com (as it was then) by googling "guinea pig cages". The main pages told me most of what I wanted to know about cages and then I discovered the forums and located most of the rest of the information by browsing. I lurked for months. I only registered and posted when I couldn't find the info I wanted by searching the forum because I didn't know the right words (jargon?) to search with.

Now I know that there is a lot of information on this site and it takes a while to find things out. But my 12 year old is expected to be able to retrieve information from the internet for his homework so I think it is entirely reasonable to expect the forum members, even young ones, to be capable of clicking a few links and doing a few searches to see what they can find out for themselves. I am full of admiration for the people who patiently answer the same questions about veggies, cages, bedding etc. time and time again.

**VoodooJoint** · #54 09-05-07, 06:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubblychin

Voodoojoint, I'm glad you can listen to what people say and take it onboard... as you expect people to do of you.

If you think I'm so wrong please answer these questions

1) What exactly did I say that was tackless and inappropriate

2) Why was it Tactless and Inappropriate?

3) Did Katie overreact?

4)If Katie did overreact is it possible that it was her replies that caused this whole mess?

5) Should I not expect members who have been here for a month or more to comprehend the type of site they are on?

6) Am I asking too much of members to expect them to have read the basics on the homepage and forum before posting?

7) If you think I am so tackless and inappropriate would you be willing to write up a nice long list of polite, standard replies (in complete accordance to the guidelines and philosophies of this forum and subject to my edits) to the common, repeated questions that appear on this site for me to copy and paste so I don't have to reply with an irritated, knee-jerk reaction that seems to so terribly upset some of the more delicate members of the forum?

stubblychin · #55 09-06-07, 03:29 am

Quote: