CavySpirit.com, extinction, breeder-bashing, petstore smearing, PETA & NAZIs

[CavySpirit]

My, my. This post on my Your Thoughts page on Cavy Spirit requires more than a simple response on my guest book software. So, I've copied it here. Maybe Jeremy will have the nerve to register and defend his position. Maybe he won't. He's been invited. We'll see. We cannot censure his PETA bashing and bringing up Nazi's because he did it on cavyspirit.com and not this forum where it is not allowed. Also, keep in mind, he is slamming my CavySpirit.com site, not this site. He posted on my Your Thoughts page, not this forum. I've copied it here for discussion. IF you plan to respond to this post, make it good, intelligent, well-written, very adult and respectful. No drama, no knee-jerk reaction posts. Think about it first. Thank you.

Dated: 12/26/06
By: Jeremy, from New York, who checked off:
[FONT=Arial]"I am Interested in cavies, just reading and researching"[/FONT]

Cavies are some of the cutest, friendliest animals around. Compared to dogs, cats, or even birds, they are fairly easy to care for, and they rarely, if ever bite.

That said, cavyspirit.com is an informative site, and a source of good information on guinea pigs, such as proper diet and medical care, and even on how to clip the nails. But what your site says about breeders and petstores is hysterical, unbalanced, libelous, and intended to serve as a hitpiece on breeders and petshops. Don't you rescue people realize that the jobs of people working as breeders or in petshops will be threatened by your irresponsible, inflamatory statements, and that your fellow citizens will be unable to get guinea pigs, or any pets for that matter, if there are no breeders or petstores, since it is basic common sense that without breeding, domesticated animals such as guinea pigs will become extinct in only a matter of time?

Look, I understand that cavyspirit is located in the San Francisco area, and that you are probably liberal democrats who hate the "greed" and "heartless profits" of the free market. But who are you to judge the behavior of your fellow citizens who want pets and are willing to pay the price and make any necessary repairs when obtaining guinea pigs from petshops or breeders? Even if it is true that there is a 20% risk of the sow dying during pregnancy, that is a risk that must be taken for the survival of the species, because if everyone followed your anti-breeding advice, there would be no domesticated guinea pigs left and your rescue would go out of business. According to your anti-breeding reasoning, maybe women shouldn't have children at all, due to the many possible complications inherent in pregnancy and childbirth and the difficulties of childrearing today. However, people are rightfully still being fruitful and multiplying, because the perpetuation of mankind depends on people willing to take risks, and life itself is all about taking risks in order to get important things done. Furthermore, one can never predict who will grow up to benefit society and mankind and who will become scoundrels.

And regarding petstores, even if it is true that some have inadequate cage space or less than stellar conditions for guinea pigs, the problems can be solved through the free market, through consumers demanding that petstores house guinea pigs and other small animals (which, by the way, are not in demand as much as cats and dogs) in better conditions, not through hysterical hitpieces and heavy-handed legislation that can destroy people's jobs.

Thus, stop your organization's breeding-bashing and broad-brush smearing of petshops!

Another thing about cavyspirit that is offensive is that you listed PETA in your links section. PETA is a hysterical, unbalanced, dishonest, officious group of busybodies that seeks to ban all use of animals, even for life-saving medical experimentation that can benefit BOTH animals and humans (yes, all that veterinary knowledge comes from animal research). As a grandchild of holocaust survivors, I am righteously angry that you decided to endorse an organization that has the nerve to compare the benign and healthful practice of slaughtering animals for food--including kosher ritual slaughter, where a swift cut to the jugular vein and cartoid artery is made that results in loss of consciousness and death within seconds and which is considered by animal scientists to be the most humane method of animal slaughter--to the Nazi holocaust, and that criticized the late terrorist Yassir Arafat only for sending a donkey to deliver a bomb with which to murder innocent Israelis. PETA and its ilk, or for that matter, vegetarians, are incapable of objectivity in regard to the use of animals for food and medical research, and do not realize that potential new drugs and medical procedures require the use of the whole animal organism, not an artificial cell or computer model. In addition, using humans in medical research without first using animals is a violation of medical ethics, is reminiscent of the Nazis, and is problematic for research because humans come from all different backgrounds and have different body constitutions, while animals used in research are bred specifically for it which means that the researchers can have complete control over the variables in a way they can never have with human subjects. :)

[daftscotslass]

Don't know what to say T, will think of a reply.

However, invite him here to share his views so he can brighten up all our days with his diatribe.

[Ruftybear]

Originally Posted by CavySpirit

Dated: 12/26/06
By: Jeremy, from New York, who checked off:
[FONT=Arial]"I am Interested in cavies, just reading and researching"[/FONT]

Even if it is true that there is a 20% risk of the sow dying during pregnancy, that is a risk that must be taken for the survival of the species, because if everyone followed your anti-breeding advice, there would be no domesticated guinea pigs left and your rescue would go out of business.

I am sure you would be glad to see your rescue go out of business if it meant that Piggies were not being abused and mistreated, and that people had been re-educated as to how to properly care for them.

There are times when a business being no longer needed is a good thing.....

[CavySpirit]

Yes, it does amaze me that so many people think of a rescue as a business that we want to be in! I'd be eternally grateful to be put 'out of business.' All that money and time could go back into my own pocket and life.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by daftscotslass

Don't know what to say T, will think of a reply.

However, invite him here to share his views so he can brighten up all our days with his diatribe.

Yes, he's been invited to register and given a link to this post. I doubt we'll see him though.

[CavySpirit]

I'm kind of tired from Christmas, so I'm just going to respond as I have the energy.

To start,

But what your site says about breeders and petstores is hysterical, unbalanced, libelous, and intended to serve as a hitpiece on breeders and petshops.

Re: hysterical, glad you found it entertaining. If you think my writings are based on hysteria, then perhaps you should reread the various articles and their calm and well-articulated documentation, support, evidence and references.

Re: unbalanced, well, duh. I'm presenting the side people don't know about and the side that many people don't want to know about. You'll find the other side in the pet stores and at the breeders and all of their associated websites, books and propaganda.

Re: libelous, well, now you're being entertaining. Libel has to be damaging against a specific company or person and be untrue. Nothing on my site is libelous.

Re: hitpiece, hmmm. Well, I'm not exactly sure what a hitpiece is. I've never heard that term before. Since you are so into labels and stereotypes, perhaps it's some NYC term. But, I can infer that you mean targetted against breeders and petshops, and if you were to clarify your own 'broad brush' of petshops to mean pet stores that sell animals, then yes, of course, it's a 'hit piece.' Although that term still brings up images of gangsters and guns for me.

[VoodooJoint]

Ug, too much idiocy to and unfullfilled thought process to even try to respond to.

[daftscotslass]

OK, here we go, let me address each point that I can in turn.

But what your site says about breeders and petstores is hysterical, unbalanced, libelous, and intended to serve as a hitpiece on breeders and petshops.

Let me define libel for you, first of all. Libel is maliciously printing false, defamatory information. None of the information on the site you have read is conjecture let alone false - it is based on fact from personal observation and years of experience on the part of the site owner. One cannot libel the breeders, either, none are mentioned by name.

Don't you rescue people realize that the jobs of people working as breeders or in petshops will be threatened by your irresponsible, inflamatory statements, and that your fellow citizens will be unable to get guinea pigs, or any pets for that matter, if there are no breeders or petstores, since it is basic common sense that without breeding, domesticated animals such as guinea pigs will become extinct in only a matter of time?

No, I don't realise this at all. Let me take as an example a pet store local to me. They were (are) a small business that had no idea of how to cope with the animals they had on sale, having merely obtained the easily-granted training course that allowed them to open a pet shop. The animals were kept in poor, cramped conditions and many a person complained. Eventually they were told to get back on track or face closure. They decided that while they could not cope with the demands of livestock and when the last were sold, no more were bought in. Selling supplies and no animals they have found themselves running on a profit rather than a loss for the first time since they began their business 20 years ago, having no animals to cater for or seek treatment for should they need it. They have even employed a part time member of staff to give themselves more time off, again without a loss. So, without conjecture, please grace us with an instance whereby a pet store with no animals were forced to make job cuts.

As for cavies becoming extinct, what can I say? Humans are humans. There will always be a demand for cheap, easy-to-get-without-a-homecheck pets and, as a result, the cycle continues.

Even if it is true that there is a 20% risk of the sow dying during pregnancy, that is a risk that must be taken for the survival of the species, because if everyone followed your anti-breeding advice, there would be no domesticated guinea pigs left and your rescue would go out of business.

Hmm. Let me get my Dictionary.com out.

busi·ness

[biz-nis]

–noun

1. an occupation, profession, or trade:

2. the purchase and sale of goods in an attempt to make a profit.

3. a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; profit-seeking enterprise or concern.

I've yet to meet a rescue yet that makes a profit. As Teresa says above, I'm sure she would be positively devestated if there were no mistreated, malnourished and abused animals eating her out of house and home.

According to your anti-breeding reasoning, maybe women shouldn't have children at all, due to the many possible complications inherent in pregnancy and childbirth and the difficulties of childrearing today. However, people are rightfully still being fruitful and multiplying, because the perpetuation of mankind depends on people willing to take risks, and life itself is all about taking risks in order to get important things done.

Guinea pigs are guinea pigs, humans are humans. Humans generally have free will. Humans have the choice as to whether or not to procreate (except in extreme circumstances). They generally choose whether or not to use contraception, they choose whether or not they have sex. Where is the choice in a male and female cavy thrown into a small cage together, forced to mate because it's what instinct drags them to do when there's an individual of each gender and the female is in season.

Furthermore, one can never predict who will grow up to benefit society and mankind and who will become scoundrels.

Funny you should mention this. Read through papers from as far back as the early 1980s - the evidence quite clearly illustrates that there is a strong correlation between those who abuse animals as youngsters and those who show the same disregard to their fellow human beings as adults.

Felthous, Alan R., "Aggression Against Cats, Dogs, and People," Child Psychiatry and Human Development, 1980, 10: 169-177.

Kellert, Stephen R. and Alan R. Felthous "Childhood Cruelty Toward Animals Among Criminals and Noncriminals," Nov. 1983.

And regarding petstores, even if it is true that some have inadequate cage space or less than stellar conditions for guinea pigs, the problems can be solved through the free market, through consumers demanding that petstores house guinea pigs and other small animals (which, by the way, are not in demand as much as cats and dogs) in better conditions, not through hysterical hitpieces and heavy-handed legislation that can destroy people's jobs.

See above for relevant response.

I have no experience personally with PETA and hence won't get involved in such discussion but if you would like me to discuss any of the above points in more detail do let me know.

[CavySpirit]

Don't you rescue people realize that the jobs of people working as breeders or in petshops will be threatened by your irresponsible, inflamatory statements...

Now this one is amusing to me. I guess you missed this page on my website: http://cavyspirit.com/shopping.htm. If Petno/stupid or any pet store were to stop selling animals, they'd still have a store to run. Hello!?

And most breeders who claim to be 'responsible' won't hesitate to tell you that there is absolutely no money in breeding. It costs money. And if, by some great and wonderful chance, we happen to put a couple of idiot mill breeders out of business and out of a so-called job, then I'll dance and sing them all the way to the unemployment line myself and I could care less that they are out of work.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by CavySpirit

Yes, it does amaze me that so many people think of a rescue as a business that we want to be in! I'd be eternally grateful to be put 'out of business.' All that money and time could go back into my own pocket and life.

Geez, if he thinks you're making money rescuing, he must believe that your pigs are pooping little gold poops. I can't think of any other way to make money rescuing.

[naturestee]

Originally Posted by CavySpirit

Don't you rescue people realize that the jobs of people working as breeders or in petshops will be threatened by your irresponsible, inflamatory statements,

I'll just pick this piece out and say that the only living creatures sold in my favorite pet store are tropical fish. When asked where to get actual animals, the employees hand out fliers for the local Humane Society which always has cats, dogs, rabbits, and guinea pigs and often small rodents like hamsters as well as occasional birds. The business is doing very well even though there is another pet store just a block away that has all the typical small animals plus puppies.

Jeremy, no offense but it seems like you're having the typical knee-jerk reaction of those who haven't researched animal overpopulation and cruelty problems relating to pet stores and their often horrible advice and the mill breeders that supply these stores with their living merchandise. I'm not a PETA fan, I'm just a concerned person who has looked into these problems and seen first hand how bad they can be. Do your animals a favor and open your eyes- they'll thank you for it.

[CavySpirit]

Jeremy has fired off a variety of replies to a few different posts on my Your Thoughts page.

This one was in reply to entry #204:

"Teresa and the rest of you cavyspirit anti-breeding fascists, will you please lay off people like this anonymous person and anyone who doesn't agree with your crackpot, Nazi-like agenda of telling people what to do???? Face it, why do you have so much arrogance to presume that any breeders or petstores are just plain bad? Why do you have such nerve to try to interfere with the free market decisions of other people who want to breed or buy pets from pet stores? Why are you so worked up over a few animals that are suffering, but are unconcerned about the livelihoods of breeders, petstore owners, and medical researchers, or for that matter, about real human suffering such as the victims of terrorism? By the way, haven't you thought that the petstores and breeders could have cavyspirit sued for defamation? THIS IS AMERICA, NOT THE SOVIET UNION! STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE!"

This one was in reply to post #236:

EARTH TO CAVYSPIRIT: HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A PET STORE WITHOUT ANIMALS???? IF PET STORES DON'T SELL ANIMALS, BREEDERS WON'T PRODUCE THEM AND THE POPULATION WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME EXTINCT, AND WITHOUT ANIMALS TO SELL, THERE WILL BE NO DEMAND FOR PET SUPPLIES! STOP TARRING PET STORES WITH A BROAD BRUSH, YOU BRAINLESS CALIFORNIA SOCIALISTS!!!!!

This one was in reply to post #166:

Elly, and Daisy, you are both a bunch of ignorant fascists trying to order people around. If someone wants to breed, THEN LEAVE THEM THE HELL ALONE! It is basic common sense that without breeding of any domesticated animal for human benefit of some sort, that species will eventually become extinct.

This one is in reply to post #159:

TERESA, YOU ARE A TYRANNICAL, CONDESCENDING, KNOW-IT-ALL FASCIST! MIND YOU OWN BUSINESS AND LEAVE BREEDERS, PET STORE OWNERS, AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOUR UNREASONABLE AGENDA THE HELL ALONE!

He basically went back to Feb 2006 and looked for posts that disagree with me to camp on to. I'm not going to approve his posts on that site. He's welcome to come here and reply if he chooses.

At least I can print the insults here. Unlike our most recent hot debate where the personal insults via PM to me and the moderators were all very crude expletives deleted.

[Jennicat]

I find it interesting that the person demanding that you take down your website because it doesn't agree with what he thinks is calling you a fascist.

[CavySpirit]

Well, wait until you read this next round of entries he's posted! After this round, I won't post anymore. I'm only posting them for entertainment purposes anyway. He's welcome to join here and post, but either he doesn't have the nerve or he can't figure out how. But, if he does register and post here, he will have to abide by the posting rules here, which means his entire Nazi theme will have to stop among other things or he'll be immediately banned. So heads up Jeremy, if you want to post, please peruse this section of the forum: http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/policies-guidelines.

The first post is a new entry. The rest are responses to various other Your Thoughts posts. It doesn't really matter which one. He says the same thing in all of them.

No, I will not back down with my assertions!!!! You people at cavyspirit are some of the most intolerant, arrogant, ham-fisted pinko busybodies I have ever seen. What gives you the right to casually dismiss everyone who disagrees with your lunatic stances on breeding and petstores? Since you have to resort to scare tactics on breeding and petstores, that shows that your arguments are not only hysterical, unbalanced, nasty, and a hitpiece, but also full of hot air. My arguments are all carefully backed up by common sense, and you DO intend to commit libel against petco and other petstores that you target on your website, since your accusations are inflammatory and bogus, due to the fact that enough people have decided to metaphorically flip you the bird by buying from petshops and breeders. In your posting of my thought in guineapigcages.com, you did not respond to my central arguments that breeding is essential to the survival of the species and brings more benefits than risks and that petstores are not the dumps you make them out to be. Why did you have to act like fascists and move your phony responses to my truthful arguments over to another website, instead of letting the whole world see in your website what a bunch of liars, scaremongers, control freaks, and communists that you really are? Change your site's information on breeding and petstores, or I will have Petco, Petsmart, other petshops, and breeders like the American Cavy Breeder Association sue the pants off of you for defamation and restraint of trade.:-!

And this:

All you people ganging up on My Name are stupid socialist idiots who are scared of risk. Face it, breeding carries risks, but also rewards, such as the continuation of the species. Haven't you people heard of the verse in the book of Genesis of "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it"?

And this:

Pat, kazuyo, and CavyLass, if you love your cavies, then let them be fruitful and multiply!!!! Will you please stop using incendiary words such as torture to describe cavy pregnancy!!! I'm sure your mothers felt torture at carrying you through their pregnancies. Besides, if everyone thought like you breeding-bashers, there wouldn't be any cute guinea pigs to have as pets.

And this:

Susan, CavyLass, and Sam are ignorant socialists who are spewing nonsense and hate about petstores, and who don't have a clue about basic biology---without breeding, there will be no cavies.

And this:

Susan, you are a mentally unbalanced, fascistic flake! Stop making sensationalistic claims about homeless guinea pigs. If everyone followed the no-breeding advice of rescues such as cavyspirit, the domestic guinea pig would become extinct and the rescues would go out of business.

And this:

Emma, Teresa, and Sue are the ones who need to get a life. People who bash breeding argue on the basis of emotion, not facts. This is the real world, not a utopia, and there will always be pregnancies that don't go well or irresponsible cavy owners. Why don't you three pompous, arrogant busybodies just shut up and leave cavy breeders alone??????

And this:

Teresa, #s 86 and 87 are right. Why do you have to act in such a ham-fisted way and mislead people about breeding and petstores, excluding any information that offends your anti-capitalist worldview? Sooner or later, the petstores and breeders will sue the pants off of cavyspirit.

And this:

EMMA AND TERESA ARE A BUNCH OF DENSE, THICK-SKULLED FASCISTS WHO WANT TO SHOVE THEIR VIEWS ON BREEDING DOWN EVERYONE'S THROATS. BESIDES CAVYSPIRIT'S POSITION ON BREEDING IS JUST IRRATIONAL.

And this:

Katie, who cares about some homeless animals? We don't need self-righteous busybodies like you telling people to let the species die out from not breeding! Haven't you heard about the free market, where business owners, including guinea pig breeders, have to take good care of their product in order to make a profit? Katie, you and your ilk are full of emotion, and are a bunch of Nazis.

And this:

Lee, Emma, and Matt, stop placing your own feelings on to guinea pigs. They are just animals. Stop bashing breeders, because without them guinea pigs wouldn't exist. Stop bashing the idea of profit, beacause without profit, there would be no business and America would be a third-world country. Your postings, like that of anyone who opposes breeding, are full of emotion, not logic.

And this:

Michelle is right, G-d bless her and everyone who challenges the pompous, arrogant, opinionated, holier-than-thou folk at cavyspirit and their ilk who have no respect for free speech and differing opinions! Teresa, the fact that you have to resort to character assassination of anyone who disagrees with your views on breeding and petshops shows that your arguments are utter balderdash!

And this:

EARTH TO SUSAN: ROBERT IS 100% RIGHT. PETA ARE A BUNCH OF ARROGANT, LYING BUSYBODIES WHO ADVOCATE AGINST ANY HUMAN USE OF ANIMALS. BESIDES, EVRY MEDICAL ADVANCE OF THE 2OTH CENTURY HAS COME ABOUT THROUGH ANIMAL RESEARCH, WHETHER INSULIN FROM PIGS OR TREATMENT FOR DIPTHERIA THAT CAME FROM GUINEA PIGS!!!! THESE STORIES ABOUT HORRIBLE CONDITIONS IN A FEW ISOLATED LABS ARE MADE-UP, BECAUSE IT IS BASIC COMMON SENSE THAT IF THE ANIMALS REALLY ARE MISTREATED, THEY WILL NOT MAKE GOOD RESEARCH SUBJECTS. BESIDES, PETA AND THEIR ILK HAVE AN AGENDA, AND WILL NOT HESITATE TO LIE--JUST LOOK AT MAINSTREAM SCIENTISTS AND MAINSTREAM OPINION WHICH ROUNDLY REFUTES PETA'S CLAPTRAP.

And this:

Teresa, like I said before today, you and your ilk put out information on breeding as an intended hitpiece as part of your anti-breeding agenda. How many times does someone have to pound it through your thick, childish skulls that breeding may be unpleasant, but is necessary for the survival of the species???? Why do you flippantly dismiss every argument made by people who disagree with your anti-breeding and anti-petshop agenda? Why don't you show some tolerance, you brainless dummycrat?

And this:

ENOUGH BREEDING-BASHING! WE DON'T NEED FASCISTS LIKE ELLY, LEE, LAUREN, AND TERESA SHOVING THEIR SELF-RIGHTEOUS PAP DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS! WHO CARES ABOUT A FEW ANIMALS SUFFERING AND DYING? WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF BREEDERS? WHAT ABOUT HUMAN WELFARE AND LIVELIHOODS? WE DON'T NEED TRUTH-CHALLENGED BUSYBODIES LIKE CAVYSPIRIT INTERFERING IN PEOPLE'S LIVES!!!!

And this:

Elly, enough with your bullying tactics and loaded statements against breeders. Why are you getting so worked up over some stupid animals? What about people who have to feed their families through breeding, selling animals for pets, and life-saving medical research?

And this:

NIOMIE, LEE, LAUREN, AND TERESA, STOP ATTACKING BREEDING, YOU NAZIS! THIS IS THE REAL WORLD, NOT SOME SAN FRANCISCO MARXIST UTOPIA, AND PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS BREED ANIMALS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! WE DON'T NEED OFFICIOUS HIGH-HANDED FASCISTS AT CAVYSPIRIT TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO!

And this:

Susan, you are one fascistic witch. How dare you criticize breeders, because without them, there would be no guinea pigs. Besides, what about homeless or suffering HUMANS?

Apologies to everyone who's been insulted in addition to myself. Just consider yourself in good company! lol

[CavySpirit]

I haven't even had a chance to reply to his original pieces of work, but I have to say, I find this one particularly funny: "My arguments are all carefully backed up by common sense..."

[smartorl]

What a crime to put backyard breeders out of business, free trade, sheeesh! If I didn't care so much for animals, I would load up a truckload of these "surplus" market items that flood the shelters here and drop them at his house for him to care for, see how long he believes in what they stand for.

[this_lil_piggy]

Don't you rescue people realize that the jobs of people working as breeders or in petshops will be threatened by your irresponsible, inflamatory statements,

And your point IS? Do you not realize that pet store employees will always have employment selling supplies, and said stores could make the same profit by charging adoption fees to adopt out animals already needing homes rather than fueling the problem...these stores do not have to sell animals that are bred in deplorable conditions specifically for them to make a profit and stay in business!
And breeders, lol so what! For every breeder that is actually making money, there is a rescue that is depending solely on volunteers, and taking money out of their own pockets and the mouths of their own family to clean up the mess breeders and irresponsible pet owners make. Put a breeder out of business, and give a rescuer their life back. Sounds like a darn fair balance to me!

if there are no breeders or petstores, since it is basic common sense that without breeding, domesticated animals such as guinea pigs will become extinct in only a matter of time

And when that time comes, that will be the moment your argument will have a leg to stand on. For the time being, their are hundreds of rescuers and shelters going broke taking care of a major over population problem that breeders and petstores are creating.

and that you are probably liberal democrats who hate the "greed" and "heartless profits" of the free market. But who are you to judge the behavior of your fellow citizens who want pets and are willing to pay the price and make any necessary repairs when obtaining guinea pigs from petshops or breeders?

Well, let's make one thing clear. Your stereotype is way off base. I am a southern girl who spent her whole life watching people treat animals horribly for their own gain and convenience. I am a firm republican, very conservative in my thinking, I am not a vegetarian, but I know crapt when I see it, and you are full of it. Who exactly are YOU to assume, judge, libel, label, and stereotype me and my opinion?

that is a risk that must be taken for the survival of the species, because if everyone followed your anti-breeding advice, there would be no domesticated guinea pigs left and your rescue would go out of business.

Put a rescue out of business? *laughing hysterically* Are you kidding, or do you really not know what you are talking about? Find me one single rescue that is making any sort of profit, and working outside of the "red". I dare you.
Like I said, when it ever (in a million years) comes to a point where there are no cats, dogs, and small animals living out their lives, or being euthanized due to lack of space and funds in rescues and shelters, THEN we will talk about breeding, and the survival of the species garbage.

And regarding petstores, even if it is true that some have inadequate cage space or less than stellar conditions for guinea pigs, the problems can be solved through the free market, through consumers demanding that petstores house guinea pigs and other small animals (which, by the way, are not in demand as much as cats and dogs) in better conditions, not through hysterical hitpieces and heavy-handed legislation that can destroy people's jobs.

Since you are the one that seems to think that pet stores and their employees rely solely on income generated from animals, and any dispute of selling said animals risks their jobs......how about you explain to me how exactly anyone is supposed to challenge pet stores and be heard, without risking jobs? Do you really think these corporate giants with fat wallets care about anything anyone says in a whisper? :sarcastic

There are area's where Cavy Spirit, PETA, and I don't have a meeting of the minds. I am not a vegetarian, I am not so sure I am against medical testing in some situations. I am avidly against breeding of animal species that are piled into shelters and rescues and needing homes--you can't reduce or fix a problem if you are constantly adding to it. But I am not against the breeding and keeping of animals, such as cows, that are not piled in shelters, and are used for the purpose of feeding humans...so long as they are kept, treated, and bred in sanitary humane conditions.
Maybe I am a hypocrite, but thats my right.
Do I think Cavy Spirit is bad, or judge her, for her opinions? Absolutely not. She is exercising her rights provided by this country...freedom of opinion, belief, and SPEECH! We just have to agree to disagree on some issues. I respect her stance, and I am pretty confident that although she doesn't agree with me, that she respects my ability and right to have my own opinions as well.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

the rest of you cavyspirit anti-breeding fascists, will you please lay off people like this anonymous person and anyone who doesn't agree with your crackpot, Nazi-like agenda of telling people what to do????

OK, Whatever, Mr "Call people names because they don't agree with you hypocrite", is there anything else you would like to tell me to do? lol

THIS IS AMERICA, NOT THE SOVIET UNION! STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE!"

THIS IS AMERICA, NOT THE SOVIET UNION! STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO THINK AND WHAT TO DO!

you are both a bunch of ignorant fascists trying to order people around.

and then in the next breath you say:

THEN LEAVE THEM THE HELL ALONE!

Translation: I am ordering you, don't order me around!!!
Somehow, this is like arguing with my 8 yr old.

What gives you the right to casually dismiss everyone who disagrees with your lunatic stances on breeding and petstores?

Because, it is my God given right to not give a flying flip what YOU think. And if you don't want to give a flying flip what I think...more power to ya.
Busybody? Did I hunt you down and get in your business? Oh, NO, actually, YOU did.

You people at cavyspirit are some of the most intolerant, arrogant, ham-fisted pinko busybodies

LIBEL!

what a bunch of liars, scaremongers, control freaks, and communists

LIBEL!

or I will have Petco, Petsmart, other petshops, and breeders like the American Cavy Breeder Association sue the pants off of you for defamation

Would you like their phone numbers? I can look them up for you, while I am looking up my lawyers number to inquire about the defamation you have yelled out against cavy spirit and all of us here.

All you people ganging up on My Name are stupid socialist idiots who are scared of risk

LIBEL!

you are a mentally unbalanced, fascistic flake

LIBEL!

Haven't you people heard of the verse in the book of Genesis of "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it"?

Did YOU read that verse before you posted it?
Subdue- to bring under control , to reduce the intensity or degree of.
First of all, I don't think God was talking to the guinea pigs when he said be fruitful and multiply. He was talking to humans, DUH!
Humans use hunting as a means not only to eat, but also as a means to SUBDUE over population of deer and such. Do you support hunting? How exactly do you think that differs from SUBDUING overpopulation of guinea pigs by boycotting breeders?
If you think God would condone your use of His scripture to judge, and bash another human being, then you probably need to do more reading....maybe the 10 commandments would be a good place to start.

Why are you getting so worked up over some stupid animals?

The same stupid animals that you think you need for medical research, and jobs? Hmm, good point! lol

What about people who have to feed their families through breeding, selling animals for pets, and life-saving medical research?

Well, I hear McDonalds is hiring.
But seriously, what about the people who can't make as much money for their families because their time is consumed volunteering and running NON PROFIT rescues/shelters cleaning up the breeders mess of multiplying STUPID animals that people NEED as pets?

Besides, what about homeless or suffering HUMANS?

WELL, since you asked!... I have the perfect idea, born from your views.... Let's breed the homeless people! Yeah, we could make money for our families, by breeding them and sticking them in glass cages until some one comes along and purchases them and sticks them on the nearest park bench!

Ah. Nevermind. You don't have the capacity to "get it".

[crazywiggy]

I was going to post more but I just can't get over the "why are you getting so worked up over some stupid animals" comment! I'm speechless! :ohmy:

Gee let me think - I get worked up about animals because they are living, sentient creatures. They can feel pain, fear and boredom as well as you or I.
We choose to keep them as pets, but we have a moral obligation to care for them and treat them with respect. Breeding pigs willy-nilly, especially when doing so will result in the death of other pigs, is downright cruel.

I just can't believe anyone, on any animal related forum, would say something like this.

[fashion victim]

Omigosh you guys your posts are priceless.

I just wanted to comment that the whole California utopia thing has nothing to do with animal rights. I live in Puerto Rico, a very small island where the population is about what, 4 million? There's CITIES in the U.S. that have more people than my whole country. And yet the level of animal abuse here surpases what I've seen and heard of in this forum. Almost no one here cares enough about animals to give them EVERYTHING they need to thrive, including spacious living areas, appropiate climate control (the temperatures here are almost equal to the ones in Hell, haha), quality food and vet care whenever it's needed. You don't know the amount of animals who live in the streets. In here it's mostly dogs and cats, but hey, they suffer too. I've probably seen in my short 18 years some THOUSANDS of animals either starved, run over, hurt, homeless or just plain dead from poison or cruel treatment from PEOPLE. And you know why this is? Because people like this Jeremy exist.

And yet, there's SOME people who are willing to fight for it. There are countless organizations and rescues and shelters who are trying to make a difference by making public campaigns about altering animals and having them inside because of the tremendously horrible weather outside. Even living inside, dogs with a double coat or very thick hair have to be shaved here because it's so frigging hot. We're supposedly in the middle of winter and right now the temperature is at 90 degrees F in the COOLEST part of the house. Yet during the night the temperature lowers dramatically about 30 degrees. The humidity is unbearable, even sitting down doing nothing you can get soaked in sweat.

And about the whole "breeders have to treat their animals right to make a profit"? Not true, at least not in here. I know several managers from different pet shops and just the other week when I went to talk to one of them about piggers for adoption a we started talking about the Guinea Pigs. They had a pregnant one with missing fur and crusted eyes and a scabby, almost hairless male. Do you know what she told me? That they are BROUGHT IN that way. They just sign a receipt for the pigs and start accommodating them - up to 6 in a small 10 gallon tank. They don't have room to separate them if they start fighting or if one of them gets sick. Heck, they won't even touch them for fear of getting some sort of skin disease. And this is in one of the most popular ones in the metropolitan area. They're practically the synonym of a human clothes boutique because they sell lots of expensive brand name stuff for animals (think Coach, Playboy and real crocodile skin pet accessories). I have seen those hick-owned stores where they stuff rats, hamsters and Guinea Pigs in the same place to save up on space. And they are all fed mouse food to save up on giving them all different food. Oh, and that enclosure where all those animals are? It's barely 3 feet long by 1 foot wide. Made of wire. With birds on top who constantly add to the mess by pooping all over the animals. And bees and mosquitos and ants adding to the stress and discomfort of the animals.

There's animal cruelty all over the world. Perhaps some countries or peoples don't think animals deserve to be treated fairly and be respected. But the people here who come from all over the world do. There is always some one smart and compassionate enough to understand the plight of the animals. And as long as there's someone then the fight will continue: to bring awareness to the situation and change, or better yet STOP the abuse of animals. I know that I will.

Rescues are profitable businesses? Really? All the ones here are non-profit organizations. Even with donations and volunteers they barely have enough to stay open. How much do you think it takes to clean up and feed and medicate more than a 100 animals every day?! And ALL of the ones in here FULL of animals at any given time. Hundreds are euthanized every single day because they are so sick because of neglect or have servere personality problems because their previous owners mistreat them or just because there’s no space left. And I can’t even begin to imagine what it must take to have a rescue of Guinea Pigs. Yeah, right, easy to care for. The bedding, cages, upkeep, food (including fresh vegetables every single day plus pellets and water) and treatment must cost a fortune. I spend about 40 dollars every week in vegetables for my bunny alone. And 8 cage cleanings every month add up to about a 100 dollars in aspen bedding.

My point is that really, you have no right to be criticizing people and threathening to sue. How about THEY sue YOU for that libel thing you talk about so much? You are threatening and insulting them all by name. I’d think they have more grounds to sue you. They are the ones who clean up after people like you who think animals are merchandise, not living, feeling creatures who depend solely on their owners to survive.

Really, how sickening. I honestly pity you and the poor animals whose lives you have on your hands.

[jackrussellgirl]

Excuse my language, he needs to grow some f***ing balls and say that to their face!