CavySpirit.com, extinction, breeder-bashing, petstore smearing, PETA & NAZIs

[zambonigirl]

I love how the species must be protected. All the species. Let's forget about the fact that most domesticated species have been bred over the past two hundred years or so. Jack Russell terriers and Chihuahuas weren't around when God said "be fruitful and multiply". I doubt that any sort of domesticated canine was. Guinea pigs are also on that list. They weren't domesticated until what? The 1600's? 1700's? They got their name because they were sold for a guinea, and they sound like pigs when they squeak. From what I understand, the Peruvian wild guinea pig is going strong, despite being a main food staple in Peru. I doubt that guinea pigs will ever be on the verge of extinction.

Why should there be so many breeds of animals? Now that cattle are kept in cramped barns under squalid conditions, herding dogs are no longer needed, and lap/purse dogs are just there for show. It's gotta be cheaper in the long run for someone to simply buy a Louis Vuitton bag to show off to their friends. Or Prada. You know. Your choice. Why would someone need a designer dog in the first place? I mean, I think boxers are gorgeous creatures, and I'd love one if I had enough room for one, but I wouldn't buy one, I'd adopt it from a boxer rescue.

I also think that doing away with selling pets in shops would help the breeds, rather than hurt them. Designer pets would be less ubiquitous in shelters, seeing as how they'd be harder to come by, thereby making them more of a status symbol rather than less of one. Also, I think that it might really cause people to research what sort of pet they want, and cut back on impulse buys.

I love the way that Theresa runs her rescue. She doesn't just hand a pig to someone with enough money; she gets to know them, and they get to know her. A responsible breeder would want to make sure that their stock is well looked after and not abused or neglected. A responsible breeder would not indiscriminately sell to just anyone in order to make a buck. I have yet to find a responsible breeder. Do you know of one, Jeremy?

One last thing-I am not a democrat. I refuse to become a pawn in the politics of a two-party system. I'm a political reformist as well as an animal activist, and I am passionate about my causes. I am very interested in human rights, and as someone accused me in a different thread, I am very muchly interested in saving the world. If you want to call someone a Nazi, why don't you go and find the backyard breeders who suffocate their lethal pups or simply starve them to death so that they don't have to deal with them? Why don't you go find the person who bought a cat from a pet store simply so that they could beat it up? Or how about the people who bought a hamster for their child and set it up in the child's room where it was neglected and eventually suffocated in the fumes of its own urine?

You think that an animal is nothing and that humans are everything. The Nazis thought that Jews were animals, and had no qualms about doing horrific things to them. What does it say about our society that we can turn a blind eye to someone doing anything horrific to an animal simply because we consider ourselves above it?

In Genesis, God said that man would have dominion over the animals. He never said that man should be a tyrant to the animals. Our relationship with animals should mimic that of God to us. Would you really want God to treat you the way that breeders treat their livestock? The way that scientists treat their lab rats?

[VoodooJoint]

This thread has been changed to a moderated thread so any posts made on it will need to be approved by a mod or admin before it appears in the thread. If you don't see your post right away please be patient and wait for a mod to get to it.

[wolfie]

I am surprised that the grandchild of Holocaust survivors did not learn that life is precious. Or to be more accurate, I should say that while you may have learned it, to you "life" means only people. To me all life is precious.

PETA- I am not a member of PETA or a vegetarian. As a former ICU nurse, I have seen first hand the bounty that research was able to add to medical care. And you are right, my dog has indeed benefited from some of these advancements in medical technology. I admit to having mixed feelings about these issues. I do not see an end in sight for the meat industry or the use of animals in medical research. But I cannot support cruel and inhumane treatment of any animal. At a minimum, I do believe there should be more stringent standards that would eliminate the unnecessary use of animals in research and provide a quality existence for all of the animals utilized in both fields.

I do not agree with all of PETA's ideas and methods. But I have tremendous respect for them. Humans have a voice, and while they may need other people to be their voice at times, they still have a voice. Animals and other living creatures do not have a voice. PETA and similar organizations act as their voice. In doing so, they have been able to turn the eyes of the world towards the plight of animals, and for this they should be commended.

Free market- You seem to be very concerned about this. While a free market may be desirable it is not perfect. The slave trade is a good example, it flourished as part of a "free market". Even a free market needs structure to provide balance and ensure adherence to moral and ethical standards. Working to pass legislation that protects animal welfare is a legitimate way to provide this balance and structure.

Pet Stores, Breeders and Rescues- When you bring a pet into your home, you are making a commitment to provide him/her with everything needed to enjoy the highest quality of life. Your responsibility includes quality housing, food, exercise, medical care, handling, training and socialization.

There has been enough said and there is enough material available for you to read concerning the inappropriate behaviors of breeders and pet stores, so I will only make one more point. When a pet is treated as "merchandise", the money making aspect overshadows the importance of the commitment and responsibility involved in owning a pet. Rescues go out of their way to make sure that people clearly understand the commitment they are making and are capable of handling the responsibility.

You seem unable to grasp the ideal that anti-breeding, pro-rescue people are working toward. They in no way advocate the extinction of guinea pigs or other species. They are interested in alleviating the overpopulation of homeless animals. They are motivated to provide all homeless animals a good home, which in my mind is a very noble ideal to strive for.

You seem obsessed with couching all of this is political terms. I am not a liberal Democrat, socialist or fascist. My nephew is a registered Socialist and I can guarantee you that he is oblivious to animal rights. On the other hand, I am an independent conservative and am very concerned about the rights of animals. This is not about political ideology, it is about moral ideology.

I believe that to you human life is precious. I do not believe that you want to advocate cruelty to animals. But I do believe that to you, humans reign supreme and all other living creatures are available to be used as people deem fit. Many of the people you so violently disagree with, stand on the opposite side of the bridge. I believe that all living creatures have an equal right to a quality life and that people have a responsibility to protect those rights. No matter what denomination or faith you believe in, most accept the belief that "God" created the world. Since all living things are the creation of God, there should be a moral imperative that we treat all of creation with respect, care and devotion. This is a difference in moral ideology and a divide that I do not think can be crossed.This moral divide is at the root of this conflict.

You have been shown that for breeders and pet stores that sell live animals, the loss of the their "jobs" will not severely financially impact them. Yet, you are more concerned for the loss of jobs than the care of the animals involved. We are more concerned with the inappropriate care given these animals than the jobs. The only way to try to get you to understand this, is to use "human" examples, since you hopefully understand ethical behavior when humans are the focus. Should we have been worried about the jobs lost when the slave trade was abolished? Or when those who worked the concentration camps lost their jobs when the camps were closed? After all they were also just doing a job and earning money to feed their families. Of course, your answer is no, because those involved were crossing an ethical and moral boundary. This is an extreme example and one I chose because I know it creates a visceral response. I am not equating breeders or pet stores with Nazis and the slave trade. Let's drop down to a more moderate level. Would you agree that if a job is proving to be more harmful than beneficial, the first concern should be the elimination of the job and not concern over job loss?
I would hope that your answer is yes.

Since breeder behavior and the selling of live animals in pet stores is harmful to the pet population, doesn't it make sense that these jobs should be eliminated?

Sadly- I fear your answer is no. Unfortunately in your world human need will always trump animal welfare. And there it is again- the great moral divide.

[emoxrobot]

I just wanted to mention that I have been getting some weird e-mails that are supposedly coming from the "your thoughts" section of T's site. I have no idea who is sending them.

[daftscotslass]

I do not feel that it is appropriate to PM a response to this, so here is my response here.

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Dear daftscotlass,


Hi, this is Jeremy in response to your posting. You don't know how to reason. Don't you dare call my statement a diatribe because it is truthful. It is basic scientific knowledge that if animals that sexually reproduce don't breed, they will die out sooner or later. And if domesticated animals die out, there will be no demand for the services of veteranarians, breeders, or petstores, even if they don't sell animals, because all these jobs presuppose a supply of pets that breed. Furthermore, haven't you ever heard of the free market, of consumer demand? And my assertions about the dark side of PETA and why that group must be stopped and how animals used for food and clothing are treated humanely are carefully documented in www.PetaKillsAnimals.com and Center for Consumer Freedom.

You just don't understand, do you? There will NEVER be a no-breed situation. EVER. Because of this consumer freedom you rave so often about - the market wants convenience pigs, not rescue pigs. We can steer people, however, in the direction of rescue and tell the truth about where the majority of cavies come from (pet mills and useless, know-nothing breeders) in the hope that they will make an informed choice. As long as there is demand, there will be no extinction. Is that really so difficult to comprehend?

I like how you pick and choose what in my post you respond to. Did you even read the evidence that illustrates that an instance where a pet shop ceased to sell animals resulted in an increase in employment. Show me the figures that illustrates that a pet shop not selling animals results in job losses. Or is everything you are stating sheer conjecture? Diatribe, yes, that was the word I was looking for. An attack on everything this site stands for - if you don't like it, go elsewhere.

Vets, eh? Don't make me laugh. Even if all pets were taken out of the picture, do you think that farm animals don't see vets? Perhaps in your utopian bubble.

Again, I am not going to comment on PETA as I refuse to read the tabloid hype you have posted.

[VoodooJoint]

We are aware that Jeremy has been sending out private PMs harrassing the members instead of making his posts publically. We have taken away his PM priviledges because of this.

Emox - Please forward T your weird emails. She may have an answer for you.

[wolfie]

I have also received a lovely PM from Jeremy. Now I know this is a loaded question- but what would you like me to do with it?

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by wolfie

I am surprised that the grandchild of Holocaust survivors did not learn that life is precious. ...

I haven't taken the time or energy to reply to most of his rants. But I have to say I also am quite shocked that a grandchild of Holocaust survivors would so flippantly and casually toss around Nazi insults and comparisons. Disgraceful in my book.

Emox, you get emails from my YT page when someone replies to a post you've made. He's posted a ton of them, but I haven't approved any of them for public viewing. Please do forward me an example. Thanks, T.

[CavySpirit]

wolfie, I'd prefer his PMs NOT be posted here. His crap would not stand up to our posting guidelines and would not be allowed directly. This is his way of getting around our rules. He won't be sending any more.

[Res Judicata]

*snorts* Anyone needing to get personal with an argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Someone with a real argument would post something with actual facts in it. Closed-minded idiots.

[littlebear]

Man oh man, I think I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that. But what made me laugh was how he stated rescues are "business". I though most busieness make money. And I don't think the objective of business is to spend $30,000 a year and not make it back. I hope I am right on that. And as stated above I think that we would all be in joy if CavySpirit went out of "business" because of a lack of guinea pigs needing a home. Isnt that the point of a rescue?

Breeders make ulmost no money also, breeding is basicly a hobby, so another thing that you should say is that the people who breed would be out of jobs, because breeding isnt a honest job.

Anyhow goodluck on this battle T.

[Storm]

I agree with the auther. He has reasonable arguments and statements, but still you all tear him apart like a wild dog would do to road kill. I was recomened to join this forum shortly after my boyfriend and I purchased our Cavy from a PET STORE *instert menicing horror movie music here*. What members are saying in their posts on this forum reminds me alot of PETA, and if I may ad that PETA has an 80% death rate of all animals they take in. There are many different ways of seeing all isues, and I feel that you all need to learn and understand that. I think that taking someone's words from another sorce and bashing it on this fourm is very rude. The auther may have been exposing himself to criticism wherever he posted it, but that does not mean he wanted people to copy and paste it and let be torn aprt by people every where. I think it's great that you all fell this way about animals, I love animals of all shapes and sizes but members here are taking it to far. I have read of people yelling in pets stores intil someone comes running to meet their demands so they will leave the store, where it would have been better for both pet store and the persons mental state if they had just by passed the store they knew they would have been disgusted with anyway. I guess all i have to say now is if you don't like it boycot it.
-Vanessa