to our GPW visitors

[Percy's Mom]

Actually, cages made of safe materials of a proper size are really more what the forum advocates. The C&C variety is merely an inexpensive, easy to produce example that is easy to keep clean. Wood of any type is generally a bad choice of material as it is difficult to clean and keep sanitary.

[GuineaFood]

Originally Posted by VoodooJoint

I don't mean to bring this back up and I certainly don't expect Martha to reply (she better not as she's banned) but I just came across an email from Martha that I missed telling me I can go ahead and post the picture.

She also stated that I need to issue her an apology when I'm not able to post the proof.

To prove that I am not a liar I decided to go ahead and post the proof. Her username on the forum (not GPW is seems) is mlbarnes44 (same as on GPW). The thread the picture is in is located here
October Pet Of The Month Entries Scroll down, the picture was uploaded on Sept 29th 2006

The cage in the picture sure looks like it's made of plywood to me.

While I agree that the hutch looks like it's made of plywood, before totally condemning it as accomodation, I would need to see the size of the entire hutch (not just a corner of it), see where the hutch is located, and know what the weather is like in that region.

[Percy's Mom]

Location of the cage really doesn't matter. The safest place for a guinea pig to live is indoors, and that's where the cage should be. Discounting location, any plywood hutch would be nearly impossible to keep sanitary, and those pigs appear to be bedded on either straw or very coarse hay. Neither of those options are absorbant at all and can easily grow mold and mildew if they aren't completely changed out daily.

[GuineaFood]

Originally Posted by Percy's Mom

Location of the cage really doesn't matter. The safest place for a guinea pig to live is indoors, and that's where the cage should be.

While I agree that ideally a cage or hutch should be indoors, not everyone is able to do that, so have to house their animals as best they can. The location of the cage does matter, because if it is indeed made of flimsy plywood, then it really needs to be in as sheltered an area as possible, not left somewhere it is exposed to wind, rain or direct sunlight. If the hutch was kept in a sheltered area, it would be more acceptable than it being left 'on the front lawn'.

Originally Posted by Percy's Mom

Discounting location, any plywood hutch would be nearly impossible to keep sanitary, and those pigs appear to be bedded on either straw or very coarse hay. Neither of those options are absorbant at all and can easily grow mold and mildew if they aren't completely changed out daily.

While I agree with that assessment, as I said above, we need to see the entire hutch before judging it. It might well be that the rest of the hutch has wood shavings, and there is just lots of hay in that corner for bedding. Without seeing all of the hutch, it's location and knowing the owner's circumstances, such a focussed picture is not sufficient information to form an opinion.

[Percy's Mom]

It's plenty sufficient for me to form an opinion. It's made of plywood, therefore it will be nearly impossible to keep completely clean without a great deal of modification such as a coroplast pan for the bedding to sit in. Even if there are pristene wood shavings in the rest of the cage, the part using hay or straw as bedding can still easily mold and get the animals living in it sick. As far as location, guinea pigs are not livestock, they are pets. They should be indoors. At the very minimum, they should be in an insulated, temperature controlled shed if they MUST be outdoors. If an animal can't be cared for properly, don't get it. Maybe YOU need to see the entire hutch before judging it, but I don't. Please don't lump everyone into a collective WE.

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by Percy's Mom

As far as location, guinea pigs are not livestock, they are pets. They should be indoors. At the very minimum, they should be in an insulated, temperature controlled shed if they MUST be outdoors. If an animal can't be cared for properly, don't get it. Maybe YOU need to see the entire hutch before judging it, but I don't. Please don't lump everyone into a collective WE.

I don't see the point in arguing with the mods because they're like the all knowing rulers of guinea pigs. They know best.

I completely agree with what Percy's Mom says. You SHOULD NOT have an animal if you can't care for it properly! Acquring one because you really want it is very a very selfish reason, specially if you haven't considered or met with every single aspect of that animal's requirements. If the person can't have a guinea pig indoors then don't get it at all. It's not fair of them to be living outdoors even with proper housing. There's always some risk, plus they won't have constant interaction because it's not like the owner will move in with the guinea pig to keep it company.

I ADORE huge dogs but I don't have an appropiate size of backyard for them to exercise in, and walking a dog in this place is very frowned upon even if you clean up after its poo. Therefore I make do with a Chihuahua, whose exercise requirements can be met running around in the inside of the house and in the balcony and terrace. She doesn't even go to the backyard so that she can't catch anything from the wild animals that spend their time there. She's a little bugger but I love her all the same.

[GuineaFood]

Originally Posted by Percy's Mom

It's plenty sufficient for me to form an opinion.

That picture is not sufficient to form an opinion, all it is sufficient to do, is to make assumptions and jump to conclusions.

It's made of plywood, therefore it will be nearly impossible to keep completely clean without a great deal of modification such as a coroplast pan for the bedding to sit in. Even if there are pristene wood shavings in the rest of the cage, the part using hay or straw as bedding can still easily mold and get the animals living in it sick.

That, again, is an assumption. You do not know how regularly this person cleans the hutch or how thouroughly they do so. Without all the facts, you are only making assumptions.

As far as location, guinea pigs are not livestock, they are pets. They should be indoors. At the very minimum, they should be in an insulated, temperature controlled shed if they MUST be outdoors. If an animal can't be cared for properly, don't get it.

I agree, that if an animal can't be cared for properly, a person shouldn't get one, but, it is possible to care for an animal properly if it has to live outside. I already agreed that it is preferable that an animal be kept indoors, but circumstances do not always allow that.

Maybe YOU need to see the entire hutch before judging it, but I don't. Please don't lump everyone into a collective WE.

If you seriously think that you can judge an entire hutch by one corner, you might want to give your ego a reality check. Unless you have seen photographic evidence that no one else has seen, there are all the factors I mentioned above that have to be taken into consideration before making a judgement. As I said, a plywood hutch left on the front lawn would be totally inadequate, but for all you know (from one extremely close up picture) that hutch could be sheltered by any number of things and totally protected. For all you know, the owner may have installed a heat lamp nearby, it might even be in a conservatory, you just do not know, and that is why it is impossible to make an accurate judgement.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

That picture is not sufficient to form an opinion, all it is sufficient to do, is to make assumptions and jump to conclusions.

That, again, is an assumption. You do not know how regularly this person cleans the hutch or how thouroughly they do so. Without all the facts, you are only making assumptions.

GuineaFood, it doesn't matter how often a wooden hutch is cleaned, it will still retain germs and filth because wood cannot be easily santized. Mold, germs, bacteria, and other nasties seep into the wood.

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

I agree, that if an animal can't be cared for properly, a person shouldn't get one, but, it is possible to care for an animal properly if it has to live outside. I already agreed that it is preferable that an animal be kept indoors, but circumstances do not always allow that.


If you seriously think that you can judge an entire hutch by one corner, you might want to give your ego a reality check. Unless you have seen photographic evidence that no one else has seen, there are all the factors I mentioned above that have to be taken into consideration before making a judgement. As I said, a plywood hutch left on the front lawn would be totally inadequate, but for all you know (from one extremely close up picture) that hutch could be sheltered by any number of things and totally protected. For all you know, the owner may have installed a heat lamp nearby, it might even be in a conservatory, you just do not know, and that is why it is impossible to make an accurate judgement.

Even assuming that this hutch is in a perfectly temperature controlled building, the pig is still peeing in the hutch, that's still seeping into the wood, and it's still a breeding ground for bacteria and mold.

[GuineaFood]

Originally Posted by claudie123

I don't see the point in arguing with the mods because they're like the all knowing rulers of guinea pigs. They know best.

No, they think they know best. That is not the same as actually knowing. This is a forum that has extremely narrow views of what it's owners consider acceptable, and no room for any other opinion. In another thread, comments were made that people should stay away from giving medical advice about guineas unless they have suitable knowledge, which is fair enough, but, I do not see any of the mods displaying their vetinary degrees in their titles, so untill they do, they too should not give out medical advice, or they are simply hypocrites.

I completely agree with what Percy's Mom says. You SHOULD NOT have an animal if you can't care for it properly! Acquring one because you really want it is very a very selfish reason, specially if you haven't considered or met with every single aspect of that animal's requirements.

I agree entirely.

If the person can't have a guinea pig indoors then don't get it at all. It's not fair of them to be living outdoors even with proper housing. There's always some risk, plus they won't have constant interaction because it's not like the owner will move in with the guinea pig to keep it company.

That is an utterly stupid notion, but the only one accepted on this forum. Yes, guinea pigs are domesticated animals, but so are cats and dogs. People do not keep cats in doors 24/7. There is no way that a guinea pig should be left outside unsheltered, but, it is not going to suffer from being in a well made, well sheltered and well monitored outdoors hutch. It is entirely possible to have such a hutch and still maintain a high amount of interaction with the guineas, it simply puts the onus onto the owner to actually make the effort to go and keep their guineas company, rather than having them in an indoor cage, and possibly allowing them to become 'background noise', other than floor time. Guinea pigs do not need constant interaction with their owners, they are quite capable of amusing themselves and each other.

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

That picture is not sufficient to form an opinion, all it is sufficient to do, is to make assumptions and jump to conclusions.

That, again, is an assumption. You do not know how regularly this person cleans the hutch or how thouroughly they do so. Without all the facts, you are only making assumptions.


I agree, that if an animal can't be cared for properly, a person shouldn't get one, but, it is possible to care for an animal properly if it has to live outside. I already agreed that it is preferable that an animal be kept indoors, but circumstances do not always allow that.

How can you thoroughly clean a wood cage? The wood ABSORBS the urine, that's exactly why they think it's not sanitary. And even if only that small spot with the hay gets mouldy the guinea pig can inhale it and get a respiratory infection, specially since guinea pigs have such delicate respiratory systems.

If the circumstances do not allow it, then do not get the animal in the first place! Perhaps rehoming the animal to someone who will care for it properly and love it and not mistreat it or have it in unsuitable conditions is the best thing for the animal.

[GuineaFood]

Originally Posted by Jennicat

GuineaFood, it doesn't matter how often a wooden hutch is cleaned, it will still retain germs and filth because wood cannot be easily santized. Mold, germs, bacteria, and other nasties seep into the wood.

Even assuming that this hutch is in a perfectly temperature controlled building, the pig is still peeing in the hutch, that's still seeping into the wood, and it's still a breeding ground for bacteria and mold.

It is still possible to sanitize the hutch easily. People still use wooden chopping boards for cooking and manage to 'sanitize' them, don't they. They probably have way more bacteria than any guinea hutch, and they are used to prepare food! Yes, wooden hutches are higher maintenance than a plastic cage, but if that is all an owner can keep their guineas in, then it is their responsibility to keep it in a sanitary condition. It is also possible to put corner 'litter trays' in hutches for the guineas to use.
My point to PM, is that from that single corner picture, no one has any idea what the rest of the hutch is like. If anyone has pictures of the rest of it, by all means show them, and if it's inadequate, I will gladly agree, but I am not prepared to utterly condemn something without seeing it in it's entirety and taking all factors into consideration.

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

That is an utterly stupid notion, but the only one accepted on this forum. Yes, guinea pigs are domesticated animals, but so are cats and dogs. People do not keep cats in doors 24/7. There is no way that a guinea pig should be left outside unsheltered, but, it is not going to suffer from being in a well made, well sheltered and well monitored outdoors hutch. It is entirely possible to have such a hutch and still maintain a high amount of interaction with the guineas, it simply puts the onus onto the owner to actually make the effort to go and keep their guineas company, rather than having them in an indoor cage, and possibly allowing them to become 'background noise', other than floor time. Guinea pigs do not need constant interaction with their owners, they are quite capable of amusing themselves and each other.

If you believe this is a stupid notion , yet understand that it's the only ACCEPTABLE one in this forum, then why do you come here and try to disprove it? Cats SHOULD be housed indoors entirely, and ALL the people I know who have cats do so. I also don't believe in keeping any animals outdoors. Why get a pet if you're not going to provide it with constant affection, love, and interaction?

[fashion victim]

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

It is still possible to sanitize the hutch easily. People still use wooden chopping boards for cooking and manage to 'sanitize' them, don't they. They probably have way more bacteria than any guinea hutch, and they are used to prepare food! Yes, wooden hutches are higher maintenance than a plastic cage, but if that is all an owner can keep their guineas in, then it is their responsibility to keep it in a sanitary condition. It is also possible to put corner 'litter trays' in hutches for the guineas to use.
My point to PM, is that from that single corner picture, no one has any idea what the rest of the hutch is like. If anyone has pictures of the rest of it, by all means show them, and if it's inadequate, I will gladly agree, but I am not prepared to utterly condemn something without seeing it in it's entirety and taking all factors into consideration.

I don't use wooden chopping blocks for sanitary reasons. Also, from what I have read in this place, most Guinea Pigs will not ALWAYS use a litterpan even if trained.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by GuineaFood

It is still possible to sanitize the hutch easily. People still use wooden chopping boards for cooking and manage to 'sanitize' them, don't they. They probably have way more bacteria than any guinea hutch, and they are used to prepare food! Yes, wooden hutches are higher maintenance than a plastic cage, but if that is all an owner can keep their guineas in, then it is their responsibility to keep it in a sanitary condition. It is also possible to put corner 'litter trays' in hutches for the guineas to use.
My point to PM, is that from that single corner picture, no one has any idea what the rest of the hutch is like. If anyone has pictures of the rest of it, by all means show them, and if it's inadequate, I will gladly agree, but I am not prepared to utterly condemn something without seeing it in it's entirety and taking all factors into consideration.

"Some" people might use wooden chopping blocks, just like "some" people might not wash their hands, but I am surely not chopping meat on a material that is very absorbing and hard to sterilize. :)

Just as an aside, and I mean this in a kind way, maybe this isn't the forum for you? It seems like all you do is go from thread to thread nitpicking at everything the forum believes in. If your point of view is truly that different and you're truly this upset about the things that it advocates, well, it seems a little counterproductive to just go around telling the other thousands members about how your way is better/more understanding/more tolerant/more whatever you've decided the catchphrase is.