Seafood

[CritterCraze]

I've read a few of the posts on here and I agree animals are inhumanely killed and treated in today's industrialized world. I was wondering what your thoughts on seafood were. Not only fish but shrimp scallops etc. I'm NOT talking about lobster or other creatures that are boiled alive. That is obviously horrific. Just because I was thinking they are wild caught and live a natural life. Whether they get caught by human or shark is by chance.

This raises another question about fish hatcheries. I'd be curious to hear both sides of the argument

[CritterCraze]

Nothing?

I'm surprised no one has responded yet.

[MCR_Rox]

PETA's website on fish:

FishingHurts.com >> Fish Farms


Also, seafood-fishing often catches other sealife such as dolphins, sea turtles, etc., many species being endangered.

[Taboo]

I just found out like a week ago that lobsters,etc are boiled alive. It made me want to cry.. how could someone do that?! And why? Is there no other way they can kill them?

[AnimalHouse36]

Originally Posted by Taboo

I just found out like a week ago that lobsters,etc are boiled alive. It made me want to cry.. how could someone do that?! And why? Is there no other way they can kill them?

It's less work and keeps the meat fresher.

My family eats them occasionally. You can hear them clawing on the pot and screaming. Sometimes it goes on for awhile. I cry everytime it happens.

And before that I have to hide them so nobody messes with them and they get a semi peaceful pre-death.

[sophistacavy]

Well, you have to be careful about PETA, sometimes they'll exaggerate something a little bit to elicit more sympathy.

I'm not even a vegetarian, but I think the seafood industry is messed up a bit. First of all, I hate the taste of like 99% of seafood b/c to me, it all tastes fishy no matter what it is, and then I'm thinking of the fish or whatever it is when it's in my mouth and I taste that horrible sea-foody taste....and I ust can't eat this stuff. Too bad for me that its so healthy. And lobsters....thats like the numero uno worst way to go. Whenever my family goes to red lobster, I just want to grab one of those poor lobsters from the tank (aka death row) and run home with it, and keep it as a pet until some aquarium can come take it for me. *shudders* Wt-heck, they scream as in vocalize?? Sick.

I hate how dolphins and other victims have to die because we're trying to get some food......whenever I hear stories about dolphins getting caught in the tuna nets, it makes me so mad. And then I heard that back in the advent of canned tuna, there actually used to be dolphin meat mixed in with the tuna. Dolphins are my favorite, I went to Discovery Cove, and after going there, I can't imagine those wonderful animals being unnessacarily harmed.

I went on a field trip in elementary school to a rainbow trout fish hatchery.....it was almost macarbre (sp?). It's cruel. The fish in the ground that visitors can feed are so packed, that when they get all excited and all try to scramble for food at once, they have to jump out of the water to move, and one time, one of them nearly missed the water b/c it landed on another fish that was pushed all the way to the top. The jumper fish had to wriggle around to find a free space to get back into.....

There was one fish that obviously managed to beach itself, and some crows (which can't help it, I know) were standing there eating it.

This place also had some above ground, mile-long huge tank thing that I don't remember what they said it was for. The fish in there were packed worse than the ones in the "trenches" in the ground. It was a solid mass of fish, possibly more rainbow trout than water.

Well, I've said everything I wanted to say, so....
thats all folks!

[Taboo]

That's awful. I feel so bad for them. If my family did that I wouldn't allow it, I do whatever was in my power to save them and if I couldn't do anything I'd have nothing to do with my family.

Once when we were at the grocery store we found a lobster on the floor (I say it was a crayfish though because it was tiny but Im not sure if they sold live crayfish so I dunno). We were begging our mom to buy it or help us sneak it out of the store and then my sister picked it up angryily and threw it on the floor (she lied and said it pinched her and she accidently dropped it when we all saw it didn't). It foamed from the mouth and died the next morning. It was going to be my pet.. I thought I had saved it's life and that I was meant to find the little guy.

[CritterCraze]

Taboo that is awfully sad I'm so sorry!!

Oh yeah dolphins in tuna nets suck for sure. I'm so all about anti whaling (except for eskimos or others that have no other choice due to location, it's not like you can farm in tundra ) And saving the Dolphins the whole slaughter thing of dolphins in Japan is sickening and needs to be outlawed asap. Anyway there is dolphin safe tuna now. I don't know if that's 100% though. I do like tuna melts to be honest and I can see why dolphins love tuna so much . I mainly love love love love did I say love shrimp and sushi too.

I'm going to have to research because even though I'm not vegetarian I'd like to avoid the inhumane and industrialized way of handling animals before they are killed for consumption. It's probably going to make me but I rather be educated!!

[AnimalHouse36]

Anyway there is dolphin safe tuna now.

It's probably bred on the farm sophistacavy talked about.

[Tserisa]

I am vegan, have been vegetarian for 13 years now. I think it's sad when people choose to be vegetarian for ethical reasons but exclude fish from their abstinence. I know several "pescatarians" who are vegetarian except for seafood.

I don't like guilt tactics but I think people really are misinformed about how fish.

Fish feel pain. They do not have 3-second memories. In fact, they can be taught tricks, which takes long term memory. They are, quite frankly, the most exploited animals on the planet. They are hauled on mass in nets onto boats and then allowed to slowly suffocate to death (tossed about without a thought), or hooked with sharp barbs through their lips (where they are more sensitive to pain than humans) and then allowed to suffocate or are bashed over the head.

Because fishing is such a huge industry, and catching and killing fish humanely would be so very cost prohibitive, there are very few laws protecting fish from mistreatment. Many states and countries don't even have fish included in animal cruelty laws. After all, if they said pet fish had to be treated humanely, what about all the wild fish that are routinely killed in very inhumane ways?

Animals want to live and they want to do so with as little distress as possible. Because of the quantities needed to supply demand, the harvesting of all kinds of seafood is very inhumane. It is also extremely damaging to the environment (overfishing and harvesting has hurt wild populations immensely, plus the damage done to habitats, etc.).

If someone eats seafood, there are steps they can take to ensure they are choosing sustainably harvested species. From an environmental, economic, and compassionate angle, abstaining from fish entirely is a better choice.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by Tserisa

I am vegan, have been vegetarian for 13 years now. I think it's sad when people choose to be vegetarian for ethical reasons but exclude fish from their abstinence. I know several "pescatarians" who are vegetarian except for seafood.

I don't like guilt tactics but I think people really are misinformed about how fish.

Fish feel pain. They do not have 3-second memories. In fact, they can be taught tricks, which takes long term memory. They are, quite frankly, the most exploited animals on the planet. They are hauled on mass in nets onto boats and then allowed to slowly suffocate to death (tossed about without a thought), or hooked with sharp barbs through their lips (where they are more sensitive to pain than humans) and then allowed to suffocate or are bashed over the head.

Because fishing is such a huge industry, and catching and killing fish humanely would be so very cost prohibitive, there are very few laws protecting fish from mistreatment. Many states and countries don't even have fish included in animal cruelty laws. After all, if they said pet fish had to be treated humanely, what about all the wild fish that are routinely killed in very inhumane ways?

Animals want to live and they want to do so with as little distress as possible. Because of the quantities needed to supply demand, the harvesting of all kinds of seafood is very inhumane. It is also extremely damaging to the environment (overfishing and harvesting has hurt wild populations immensely, plus the damage done to habitats, etc.).

If someone eats seafood, there are steps they can take to ensure they are choosing sustainably harvested species. From an environmental, economic, and compassionate angle, abstaining from fish entirely is a better choice.

Wow, I didn't know that fish feel pain in their lips more severely than humans do. How was that discovered? I mean, how do people know/prove that kind of stuff?

Yes, omg, I saw this thing in the christmas catalogs that was a kit to teach pet fish tricks. You teach them using positive reinforcement reward-based training. It looks like so much fun, too bad I don't have pet fish anymore! And yes, fish that can be trained to do tricks like that can't possibly have 3-second memories....that's hogwash ! That would be like saying dogs have 3 second memories, since tricks are taught to dogs using the same training method....

[Tserisa]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

Wow, I didn't know that fish feel pain in their lips more severely than humans do. How was that discovered? I mean, how do people know/prove that kind of stuff?

They injected a pain-inducing substance into their lips. While I abhor animal testing, if this knowledge changes fishing practices or turns people to vegetarianism, I would be extremely grateful.

"What they found was that the fish had 58 such [pain] receptors around the mouth and actually reacted at lower levels of pain stimulation then humans, perhaps because their skin is more easily damaged." (Stuart Brown, Sept 2003)

"Administration of noxious substances to the lips of the trout affected both the physiology and the behaviour of the animal and resulted in a significant increase in opercular beat rate and the time taken to resume feeding, as well as anomalous behaviours. The results of the present study demonstrate nociception and suggest that noxious stimulation in the rainbow trout has adverse behavioural and physiological effects. This fulfils the criteria for animal pain." (Royal Society, April 2003)

Another study studied the reaction of fish who were hooked and then released. It found that not only did the fish feel pain, they exhibited a fear reaction (darting, spitting, shaking their heads) long after the pain had gone away, and abstained from feeding for a considerable amount of time afterwards.

[Taboo]

Awesome! I never knew fish could be taught tricks. I knew they can feel pain and aren't stupid but I've never been sure exactly how smart they are.

[Tserisa]

Originally Posted by Taboo

Awesome! I never knew fish could be taught tricks. I knew they can feel pain and aren't stupid but I've never been sure exactly how smart they are.

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

Yes, omg, I saw this thing in the christmas catalogs that was a kit to teach pet fish tricks. You teach them using positive reinforcement reward-based training. It looks like so much fun, too bad I don't have pet fish anymore!

I've taught my fish some tricks and though I've never bought the kit, I know someone who has and put up videos of her training. It was great! I keep bettas (here is my betta site with a caresheet). They good candidates for training, and extremely personable.

Training is good for fish because it provides mental stimulation. Bored bettas may even self mutilate (they've been known to bite their tails)!

[Amsley246]

I'm not vegetarian, but I've thought about it many times and still think I might, for many reasons. The only reason why I haven't yet is because it's hard to break habits you've done all your life as I'm sure many people would agree. I also have the problem where nobpdy wants to support me in it and are dead set against me doing it so it doesn't help.

I do believe, to support Tserisa's point, mythbusters proved fish have longer memories then people "assume". Much longer.

I also sympathize with the rest of you that lobsters ae boiled alive and it's horrible. The truth is though, coming from Atlantic Canada where fishing it the number one industry just about everywhere here, they must be boiled alive. It's for health reasons. Seafood spoils very quickly once it dies, basically instantly, and it makes people sick it you eat spoiled food. It's not only lobsters that need to be dont like so, Oysters, Clams, Crabs, Mussels, and lots of other speices need to be cooked alive as well. This has to be one of the cruelest facts of life I know (for anyone who eats seafood0.

[jenniwat001]

Boiling alive is horrible, bu really not the only way to kill a lobster. A more humane way (I use that loosely) is to pop it in the freezer for a couple of hours to send it into a hyperthermic sleep, this doesn't hurt it,just like humans who get hypothermia-your not aware of it because your so cold. Then take it out of the freezer and jab a knife into the back of the neck where the head meets the first link. Go hard an deep, this kills it dead, and the poor thing isn't aware of it because its already in a coma. This is the preferred method in the UK and is recommended by Gordon Ramsey.

And just to mention that I am not vegetarian but my mother and sister are.

As for dolphin friendly tuna-it's caught in the sea as Tuna is way hard to farm (they are ENORMOUS!) but instead of a net are caught using a fishing line, like your grandpa does does by the lake then fished out by a big net-it's a little more intensive (lot of hooks on one big line) but its the same principle, then although they may catch other fish there no dolphins caught that way (they don't feed like that). It's harder to catch like this which is why it can be more expensive.

[ColoradoMama]

I just had to chime in and mention something. I'm vegan, therefore am obviously against boiling lobsters alive, but they DO NOT scream when they are being boiled. The high pitched sound that can sometimes be heard when they are in the water is the sound of gases escaping out of their shells. Honestly, I almost wish they were screaming. It may cause people to think about what they are about to do. But when I saw a post above about them screaming, I just had to make a note of the misinformation. I want people to stop eating seafood just as much as the next vegan, but it has to be for the right reasons, not mistruths. (Not that I'm saying it was a mistruth presented on purpose. I know that many people think this.)

[Amsley246]

Yes, I forgot to mention they doesnt scream, thanks coloradomama! And yes, there are other ways of killing them, but that's just how we do it in the maritimes. The old "traditional way". In my opinion there are a lot of "traditions" that need to be broken or modified. People here swear that you need to cook seafood in actual seawater, which I would never do.My father has made lots of trips to the beach to get it.

As for the tuna, we here on the island catch our tuna but good old hook and winch. Occasionally in the paper they put big catches in if there isn't much news to write about. A few weeks ago someone caught a 900lbs tuna! It was massive! I just hope it goes all to good use. Far too many people go hungry now a days.

[AnimalHouse36]

Originally Posted by jenniwat001

Boiling alive is horrible, bu really not the only way to kill a lobster. A more humane way (I use that loosely) is to pop it in the freezer for a couple of hours to send it into a hyperthermic sleep, this doesn't hurt it,just like humans who get hypothermia-your not aware of it because your so cold. Then take it out of the freezer and jab a knife into the back of the neck where the head meets the first link. Go hard an deep, this kills it dead, and the poor thing isn't aware of it because its already in a coma. This is the preferred method in the UK and is recommended by Gordon Ramsey.

This is in no way a more humane way to kill a lobster. IMHO

Lobsters feel pain just like us. So my shoving them into freezing temperatures, they feel it. Just like us. Do the people with hypothermia look happy to you? No. They look distraut and terrible. That how the lobsters are feeling.

I hope you don't take offense.

[Amsley246]

Killing them is killing them basically.