Letter From a Vegan World

[AnimalHouse36]

Wow, that brought tears to my eyes. I'm genna spread this letter around.....it's so powerful....

[rxqueen]

A little update-I have tried carob and I really liked it.

I had it with this Rice Dream ice cream bar. It was vanilla rice ice cream covered in carob.

[Taboo]

I feel really bad for not being able to go vegan.. but at least I'm vegetarian. Its not that i like milk, eggs, cheese, etc but it would just be too hard for me to go vegan because my parents already have a hard enough time finding non-meat foods. Finding foods with no diary,eggs, or honey would be nearly impossible in my family.

But I never eat eggs or drink milk (I put milk in coffee and tea though), hardly ever use honey, don't often eat cheese. So I guess I do do some good.

I'd really like to meet the people at slaughterhouses and who work at these farms and ask them how they live with themselves. They must be heartless, pathetic people to be able to do what they do.

[PrayerWarrior]

Originally Posted by Taboo

my parents already have a hard enough time finding non-meat foods. Finding foods with no diary,eggs, or honey would be nearly impossible in my family.

Why?

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Taboo

They must be heartless, pathetic people to be able to do what they do.

Or perhaps they are people who need to earn a living, feed their families, and pay their rent or mortgage. While I agree with wanting to change the process, even get rid of a lot of the plants and encouraging people to reduce the amount of meat they eat, neither you or I know the workers well enough to judge/insult them.

[Taboo]

Originally Posted by PrayerWarrior

Why?

They say that its really hard to find non-meat foods. I don't know, they're the ones who grocery shop. But they say they can't even find a soup that doesn't have meat. I hear that people in the USA (where I live) think they need to have meat with every meal and my family is that way too. So I always have to have a separate meal than th rest of the family and they're not at all supportive of me being a vegetarian so its not that they really try to find and cook meals without any meat for me anyways.

But I reckon I'll be a vegan someday.

Or perhaps they are people who need to earn a living, feed their families, and pay their rent or mortgage. While I agree with wanting to change the process, even get rid of a lot of the plants and encouraging people to reduce the amount of meat they eat, neither you or I know the workers well enough to judge/insult them.

It just seems like they could find some other kind of job though. Does it even pay high?

[AnimalHouse36]

Originally Posted by Taboo

It just seems like they could find some other kind of job though. Does it even pay high?

I'm not sure about the pay. But, I mean think about it, with the slumping economy the jobs are at a low. Most of them probably don't have a college education either. They could be illegal immiagrants who have no where else to go. THey might have a very large family to. There are many reasons for people to do there job. As much as I hate the fact that that is there job, I don't know all the facts to there life. Sure, some of them might be perfectly fine with what they do, but I bet some go to bed hating themselves for ending a life ike that.

[Percy's Mom]

I don't doubt that the workers in the processing plant could look for other jobs, and no, they probably do NOT pay high at all, but that is really besides the fact. Saying that someone is "heartless" and "pathetic" is no better than someone saying a vegetarian or vegan is stupid or that they will get sick and die if they don't eat meat. Don't stoop to the same sad, name calling level as many truly ignorant people. Try to educate people instead and help them see your way of thinking.

[rxqueen]

Originally Posted by Taboo

They say that its really hard to find non-meat foods. I don't know, they're the ones who grocery shop. But they say they can't even find a soup that doesn't have meat. I hear that people in the USA (where I live) think they need to have meat with every meal and my family is that way too. So I always have to have a separate meal than th rest of the family and they're not at all supportive of me being a vegetarian so its not that they really try to find and cook meals without any meat for me anyways.

But I reckon I'll be a vegan someday.

Taboo, I have found plenty of vegan products at safeway. It's all about reading labels. The Progresso Lentil Soup is vegan! The Campbells tomato soup is vegan. The Healthy Choice vegetable soup is vegan. There are sandwich rolls in the bread section that are vegan. Barilla pasta (VERY easy to find brand, sold almost everywhere) is vegan. Plenty of pasta sauces are vegan. Silk soymilk is vegan. They even make Silk coffee creamer. Origional flavor Wheat Thins are vegan. And last time I checked, fruits and veggies are vegan. Some salad dressings (depending on the brand, french dressing, vinagrettes). Nucoa is a vegan butter. Earth Balance is too. Annie's makes a vegan pizza. And plenty of vegan microwave dinners. Boca makes vegan burger patties and plenty of other stuff. Cinnamon Life. Cocoa Pebbles. Grape Nuts.

I find all of that stuff at an Albertsons, Safeway, and Fred Meyer. Fred Meyer is the best, because they are starting to offer a lot of different stuff that is safe for vegans.

If your parents say that they can't find anything, they aren't looking very hard. No offense.

My mother is not very supportive either. She always wants me to make exceptions so I can eat her cheesecake or roast or turkey or something. If I trusted her with grocery shopping, I can imagine she would say the same thing mostly because she can't be bothered to look harder than she normally would. Not saying this is totally the case for you, but it might be close. If they are not being supportive, they may not be finding stuff because they don't want to.

I suggest you ask them to get specific things when they go to the store. Go with them even. And find recipes online and learn to cook. If they realize you're very serious about this, they might be a little more supportive.

[crazywiggy]

I hope nobody minds an omni like me adding my 2 cents, but I thought I would answer RXQueens original question....

Do any of you think that animal welfare is effective? Or do you think, in the case of farm animals, that a vegan world is really the answer?

I thought the letter was very good - it made it clear that "higher welfare" farming can still cause suffering, something I think people should be aware of.

I personally do not support animal rights, I do support animal welfare, so I only eating animal products raised in the more "humane" ways.

I certainly do believe animal welfare and better farming methods can be effective, although this does not automatically mean they are!
For example, the rules vary between countries. From what I've read the labels of free range and organic are pretty meaningless in the US, but the UK guidelines are far more specific, so the labels actually mean something.
I also happen to think the UK rules are far from perfect!

I look at it this way. For people to eat animal products, animals have to die. Some people can accept this, other can not.
Obviously the most "humane" answer for animals is a vegan world. That is the only way to ensure that no animal has to suffer or die for our plates.

However, I think that the only way this would happen is in some sort of dictatorship where it was illegal to eat animal products. I don't believe this is a self fulfilling prophecy of failure as the letter suggests - just realistic. Not everyone will go vegan, no matter how many PETA videos they watch.

So, in reality, most of the general population will continue to eat animals. As long as this is the case I think good welfare is vital.

I think the animal welfare route could do a lot of good. Already, organic and free range farming methods cause less suffering than standard intensive methods. Over time these will hopefully be improved, to reduce suffering as much as possible. I would then like to see these becoming the only method of farming - so that all livestock are reared in high welfare conditions.
I do believe it is possible for animals (whether for meat or eggs etc) to have high welfare and not suffer, although we are nowhere near that yet.

I also personally feel that the animal welfare route could eventually lead to more people becoming vegan anyway, as our ideas on welfare continualy change. For example, asking people who eat cheap factory farmed meat at every meal to suddenly go vegan is a massive jump. Animal welfare breaks it down into more managable steps. You first get people to demand only higher welfare products. You then improve these standards of welfare until they are near perfect. When people start questioning the timest details of animal welfare, and eating less meat anyway because of the price, they are more likely to go vegan.

Taboo - please do not jump to conclusions about farm workers. They may not agree with the same principles as you but that doesn't automatically make them pathetic or heartless! You might be surprised at how many people actually do some horrible jobs because they care!