*sighs* I want to be a vegetarian but I can't :(

[Simmonkey]

The longest I have ever been a veg is 3 weeks. Its not that I lack commitment, its that my mom is not very agreeable, and thinks cows, pigs, and the rest, are put here for us to eat. And she won't buy me any vegetarian meals. She won't cook vegetables without meat seasoning. And makes me eat thinks like "michelinas" for my meals. When we go to fast food, of course she always asumes I want meat and says that I know you'll order ____ even though I order salad, or french fries, or something else! What should I do? I've tryed explaining things like the abuse cows face there whole life. But she knows its wrong, but thinks vegetarian meals are more "expensive", well they are if your buying for a omnivore and a vegetarian. But if we where both vegetarians, it would be a lot cheaper. Again, what can I do?

[ArtisticRainey]

All you can do is try to show her the cruelty in the meat industry. Don't just tell her; show her. Find some websites and show her the realities. If you look through this forum there are a ton.

Some people, however, won't change. My mother won't change. I had to move out in order to become vegan, and even now after two years she still cooks me meat dinners and complains when they go to waste. I won't get into the psychology of mothers and feeding their children, but essentially you can only try to help her to see for herself why she shouldn't eat meat, or at least why you don't want to.

Good luck.

[guineapigluver1]

I agree: show her! My mom is aggreeable buying me vegetarian things, but my siblings, and dad give me a very hard time about it, it isn't easy thats for sure.

[Newpiggiemom]

Have you tried getting information for her? The Vegetarian Starter kit from Mercy for Animals has a lot of good information in a concise format that's easy to read. It's free too. Check out MercyForAnimals.org or ChooseVeg.com.

Don't try to get her to change. Sometimes leading by example is the best. I am vegetarian for the past 3 months now. My family is not. My children though are taking to it through my example and are more willing to try more vegetarian items and understand that I do it because I love animals and don't want to eat them. If you can get her to accept your decision she may follow suit eventually but trying to force it on her is not the way to go.

[PrayerWarrior]

[FONT=Georgia]The above are great suggestions. I would try those, and if that doesn't work, you could always just simply not eat it. I know it seems quite bratty and your mother would be none-to-happy, but in the end, it's your choice, not anyone elses'. [/FONT]

[captain cavy]

my point of view is that you just have to wait untill you can accomodate yourself before you can choose whatever lifestyle suits you best/or is the most idealistic one to you!

anyhow its always appreciatable to be concerned with these matters (but thats just my humble opinion)

[HeraHero]

Hi there Simmonkey,
I'm sorry that I don't really have anything to add. But I wish you good luck! And I'm not sure if this would work, but you could try to add up a estimated weeks worth of "vegetarian" food and then total the amount of what eating regular meat for a week would be and show your mom that. I suppose it could be that cost is just an "excuse" of sorts and she already knows that it's cheaper, or maybe not. Do you get an allowance? If so you might offer to give up a little money from that each week to go towards vegetarian foods. By the way completely off subject but are you the same Simmonkey as on hamsterhideout?

[hollypetsit]

Have you tried offering to cook for the family? My mom doesn't usually listen to me even though I am close to 30 years old. One way to get her attention is if I offer to cook for her. That way I give her time to listen to me and see what I eat.

[Weatherlight]

my point of view is that you just have to wait untill you can accomodate yourself before you can choose whatever lifestyle suits you best/or is the most idealistic one to you!

Would you just go along like that if it were human, dog, cat, horse, cavy, and monkey meat? Or is it only ok because they're just chickens and cows, and they don't matter as much, right?

[captain cavy]

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

Would you just go along like that if it were human, dog, cat, horse, cavy, and monkey meat? Or is it only ok because they're just chickens and cows, and they don't matter as much, right?

Yes,i would;and not because they don’t matter more or less!

What i was trying to point out is that we all are forced to adjust to the majority,not that killing annimals isn’t a cruelty!

imo its not sensible to deal with the issue radically or fanatically.

[Weatherlight]

Somehow I don't believe you.

IMO it's only sensible to do what you can to abstain from torture, rape, and murder. Obviously, you're not being "forced" enough if you can abstain.

Maybe you'd jump off a cliff or decapitate a toddler if your mom told you to. Maybe you'd squeeze your gpig's neck until s/he died. Maybe you'd say it's "radical" or "fanatical" to talk some sense into your mom and refuse. Oh well, I'm glad I'm not you.


I'm an extremist, or at least I try to be. Extremely logical. Extremely against rape. Extremely nonracist. You get the idea. I think it's the only sensible way to be.

[Susan9608]

What i was trying to point out is that we all are forced to adjust to the majority,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. If everyone was always forced to "adjust to the majority" there would never be any change in the world. And obviously things change.

There was a time when slavery was legal in American - that was the majority position. But enough people bucked the majority position to create a change to make that position illegal.

There was a time when women couldn't vote in America - that was the majority position. But -again - enough people bucked the majority position to create a change to give women the right to vote.

Sometimes you have to be a bit radical or fanatical to get anything accomplished, especially if what you want to get accomplished goes against what is ingrained in the majority of people.

Of course, this thread was obviously started by someone who still lives with her parents and who is not in total control over her own finances, diet, and health yet. In that situation, there is only so much that can be accomplished without the assistance of the parents.

[Weatherlight]

And as I mentioned, sometimes the parents are so unreasonable and abusive that children don't have the power to stop eating animals, or much of anything else.

And sometimes it just takes commitment and effort.

No slave, woman, etc was all-powerful. There was only so much that could be accomplished by them. People campaigned and created change anyway.

[Justin]

Maybe I can share what's on my head. Hope it will help you to understand your parent and plan a good strategy convincing her.

I am a scared little soul on child malnutrition and obesity. I never allowed my 5 years old child to refuse any kind of food served. I have been and will be fanatically strict on that, unless my child gives me a superior reason such as; "Daddy, I have stomach pain", or "Daddy, my emotional development is ill effected by animal cruelty on this steak", and so on.

So, think about how you can convince her that
1. Vegetarian diet also get you good nutrition.
2. It's cheaper.

[Weatherlight]

We don't know exactly what this person's parents provide for her to eat.

True, but I wouldn't be so quick to discredit her perceptions.

Children who go vegetarian without their parents support often times turn to eating junk food to get full

And this is different from nonvegan kids who eat tons of junk food? =\ The ones who really want to go veg*n would at least get veg*n junk food.

I think any good, healthy diet takes planning, but a good vegan diet takes even more planning.

Any reason you think that? I think it's the opposite. Get a few guidelines down, eat a varied diet, you're set. The only "even more planning" is vitamin B-12. You can also try to get some extra omega-3s in, which most Westerners should be doing anyway. Limiting protein, cholesterol, and saturated fat don't need as much planning. Increasing fiber and carbohydrates don't need as much planning. I really can't see why it takes less planning to work in animal products.

I never allowed my 5 years old child to refuse any kind of food served.

As in what, threaten the kid? Has to eat before allowed to stand up? Forcefeed through a tube?

You do realize that pressuring young children to eat certain amounts and/or at certain times of day and/or certain foods is setting them up for major food issues (some of which are "normal" in America), right? Parents around here do a good job of beating out innate eating skills.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

As in what, threaten the kid? Has to eat before allowed to stand up? Forcefeed through a tube?

Unbearably lengthy lecture in most case. But brute intimidation when I have to.

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

You do realize that pressuring young children to eat certain amounts and/or at certain times of day and/or certain foods is setting them up for major food issues (some of which are "normal" in America), right? Parents around here do a good job of beating out innate eating skills.

I didn't realize. What's the major food issues?
While I don't control amount, I do control time and type.
For example, she has to stop playing and join family dinner when asked. And she has to eat evenly from table, not only favorite ones. She once asked her mom to cook macaroni and cheese for her, because the prepared dish was not tasty. It made me furious so she hasn't done that again.
Also no snack after eating very little on dinner table. I say, "You said you were full at the dinner table. If that was true, you don't need any snack. If you are hungry, then think twice at the next meal."

[Biscuit]

I will say, I didn't enjoy some perfectly tasty foods for a long time, and could be defined as having had "food issues..." primarily because of the overly harsh restrictions and attempts to force me that my parents put on me.

[Weatherlight]

Justin, I honestly can't find where I saw this information first.

The second time I saw it, though, I remembered it clearly because the source was so funny.

HERSHEY'S Topics in Nutrition: Children's Eating Patterns: Abstract

"You said you were full at the dinner table. If that was true, you don't need any snack. If you are hungry, then think twice at the next meal."

You're a decent example of the current attitude about parent-child interactions. Even that bit is clearly, to those who understand what it's truly saying, emotional abuse.

In fact, one of Linehan's examples of invalidation is telling a child that no, she isn't thirsty, she just had a drink 10 minutes ago.

I don't want to say more right now :P

the majority of people I come across have no idea what constitutes a healthy diet.

...that most Amerians eat a very poor diet?

That's exactly my point.

One person is vegan. Another eats a SAD. Both have similarly poor grasp of health and nutrition. Why would it be better to be the latter than the former? That's my question. Skip the guidelines--neither person knows them. Give the former enough B-12 in the form of breakfast cereals or something. Now they're about equally malnourished, but at least one has less cholesterol, almost certainly has less saturated fat and protein, and almost certainly has more fiber. Guess who it is? Now get them to improve their eating at least a little, maybe by encouraging them to help their parents with shopping?

Now that I think about it, I'd actually take rice cereal, pb, jam, and spaghetti over bacon, scrambled eggs, steak, and fried chicken. Similarly, I think a cat would do better on cow muscle and tuna than on brown rice and wheat gluten, although both are unhealthy to eat.

I don't really get why I'm arguing this point with you, though.

Answer:

"if you eat meat, you're automatically eating healthy; if you go veg*n, you're risking horrible malnutrition, and need lots of studying, meal planning, doctor consultations, expensive fake meats, and fancy supplements to stay healthy" mentality

I think any good, healthy diet takes planning, but a good vegan diet takes even more planning.

Toning down an inaccuracy doesn't make it accurate.

[CF#5]

Originally Posted by Justin

I never allowed my 5 years old child to refuse any kind of food served. I have been and will be fanatically strict on that, unless my child gives me a superior reason such as; "Daddy, I have stomach pain", or "Daddy, my emotional development is ill effected by animal cruelty on this steak", and so on.

What if that superior reason is given as a delayed reaction, say, 20 years from now? How will you feel in 2028 knowing your actions of forcing your child to eat meat will cause her unbearable stress, guilt, and shame for having eaten meat when she was five years old?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by CF#5

What if that superior reason is given as a delayed reaction, say, 20 years from now? How will you feel in 2028 knowing your actions of forcing your child to eat meat will cause her unbearable stress, guilt, and shame for having eaten meat when she was five years old?

Actually we had no problem with meat. I had to force her to eat vegetables. It's nice that she is pretty comfortable with vegetables now, because we are changing our diet and not buying red meat.

We are still eating egg, milk, and fish. But I never had to force them either. True, she can still have delayed reaction with those. I can't logically deny your argument, but emotionally not convinced enough to be a true vegetarian yet. I guess I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. If she learns from watching me, I think she will be flexible in morality and won't allow such harsh emotions easily.

BTW, it's really a good point to give more thought. I will remember it.