veg :)

[haunted_much?]

[FONT=Times New Roman]Hi![/FONT]
Just wondering, how many people here are vegans, how many are vegetarians, and how far you are.
For example, I am vegan (no honey, dairy, poultry, fish, mammals, eggs,) and I also NEVER use (real) leather, fur, silk, wool, bees wax, etc; products tested on animals, never buy animals from pet stores or breeders(ONLY ADOPT) and I only by animal food/toys/etc from stores that don’t sell animals.

Is there anyone else out there as crazy as me?

[Susan9608]

There's quite a few people just as crazy as you here; just search through the veg. section and you'll see. You'll also find many posts and threads from people who are "wannabees." They are the people who say, "I still eat meat, but I wannabee a vegetarian," or "I still eat eggs {or insert whatever here} but I wannabee a vegan someday."

[CF#5]

Check.....

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

They are the people who say, "I still eat meat, but I wannabee a vegetarian,"

Searching Google for vegetarianism lead me to many pleasant and forgiving information. For example, according to wikipedia, I am a flexitarian because I have been mostly vegetarian. How nice! And there was another sweet thing called pescetarian, which I decided to try from this weekend.

My wife's older sister became very proud of her daughter graduating from high school this summer. So she decided have a grand birthday party (today) for her. I was honorably invited to cook 50 rolls of various kinds of Japanese sushi, just because I could. My relatives often abuses my one-month career as a cook helper. Beside, she bought several pieces of expensive apparel for my daughter's 5th birthday. So I owed a favor to her.

Anyway, I was grilling ham and beef to make beef rolls and ham&cheese rolls (so much for the Japanese sushi) this morning. Then I thought, 'S***, I am a pescetarian now!' So I tossed them back to freezer and started make California rolls and spicy California rolls (again, so much for the "Japanese" sushi)

Then I thought, some of the guests could be vegans, why shouldn't I make half of it as vegan sushi? I was first worried that some other of the teenager guests won't be so hot on vegetables. But I could do so much good by serving them to eat vegetarian food, even if I am not a vegetarian yet. Great Scott Adams in Dilbert once said, "You can't save earth unless you are willing to sacrifice other people."

I give and I give.

[CF#5]

Different people wean themselves off meat differently. Some people need time to do it gradually, and in a way, I suppose that's ok, I guess.

What it took me a long time to realize is that every bit counts, even though it's probably a losing battle. I didn't always feel that way. I learn best and reach my own conclusions when I think about situations abstractly, which allows me to apply one situation to a seemingly unrelated second situation and see it through a new set of eyes. People like this one piss me off:

Crazy Mind 2017: you know that rationalization is just a long word that means lying to yourself
Human Supremacist: who rationalizes?
Human Supremacist: if i dont buy the fur coat someone else will

Yes that was a real IM conversation I once had.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by CF#5

rationalization is just a long word that means lying to yourself

And that's great way to comfort yourself against evil people who want to control you.

[aNiMaLsAmArItAn]

I am really happy that there IS someone like me. I do everything that you haunted_much? does and I am PROUD! I also do not use any products that harm animals in any way (no animal testing or animal products or by-products.

[Susan9608]

I don't think there's anything wrong with starting down the path to vegetarianism slowly. Doing something is certainly better than doing nothing. And being an advocate is better than being personally pure any day, at least in my opinion. What good is being personally pure if you accomplish nothing for animals?

[CF#5]

Not hurting them is what you accomplish.

[haunted_much?]

Originally Posted by aNiMaLsAmArItAn

I am really happy that there IS someone like me. I do everything that you haunted_much? does and I am PROUD! I also do not use any products that harm animals in any way (no animal testing or animal products or by-products.

YAY!!
**highfive**

[Susan9608]

I got interrupted before I could finish my previous post, and then before I could come back to it, I had an incident and ended up spending almost all of yesterday and all night in the hospital.

Anyways, what I was meaning to finish saying, is that personal purity is a great thing from a personal standpoint. However, personal purity can often interfere with effective advocacy and thus turn others away from veg*nsim and, thus, in the process, hurt animals.

See this article: GoVeg.com // Get Active // Effective Advocacy // Personal Purity vs. Effective Advocacy

[Biscuit]

That is sort of one of the reasons I haven't done it yet...I can't do things slow, I can't half do them. It's a disease in my head or something. I can't just "stop eating beef" today then cut out something else tomorrow. The inner hypocrisy would eat away at me and I would be a failure. A vegetarian just seems like a hypocritical vegan to me...

I'm not either, so I hope no one takes offense to that. Currently I'm in a guilt ridden phase where I feel trapped by habits and my surroundings and animal products are so engrained in my daily life that the idea of it seems so staggeringly impossible. I'm not sure where I'd even get my shoes, for example. I want to do it, I know it's the right thing, but I don't feel myself capable of doing it gradually, so it's a huge leap. What a piece of crap I am, perfectionism keeps me killing animals every day? Sounds like a load of it. I don't know. The girl who left everything she knew at 16 and fled the south to Seattle with no money isn't sure she can make a big, sudden, dramatic lifestyle change? I can't sort it out in my head, and that drives me insane.

And I have that poster, CF. I had it in my office before I lost my office in the big move, but the hospital wanted me to take it down because it didn't reflect the attitude of our organization (snicker). Although, I had it because most of my job is fixing other peoples mistakes on hospital visit accounts. I also have the "few harmless flakes can unleash an avalance of destruction" one.

[nismosmama]

I am Vegan....but not a perfect Vegan. somtimes I slip and will end up eating something with dairy or eggs. But not often, I just get right back on the Vegan train. Hopefully one day I can manage to be Vegan 100%.

[Susan9608]

A vegetarian just seems like a hypocritical vegan to me...

Interesting perspective, but I'd say that doing something - ie, eating *less* animals - is certainly better than doing *nothing* and rationalizing eating lots of animals under the guise of wanting complete perfection.

My experience is people who tout a complete black and white ideology online or in theory seldom actually live that way in real life. It's almost impossible to life in such a way that doesn't cause harm to someone or something. Even eating a purely and completely vegan life causes harm to animals in some regards, so there is no true, attainable, perfection - unless you want to live on TPN and lipids forever, become a candidate for a liver transplant, and thus contribute to all kinds of horrific animal research and drains on medical resources. Or, I suppose, you could simply quit eating and starve to death. Or go live in the woods and try to survive all alone, eating plants and the like. But you'd probably smash a few insects along the way and ruin it.

[CF#5]

I suppose I never gave it much thought, but my perfectionism and my hatred for hypocrisy is what kept me eating meat for longer than it should have. The ideas you've expressed here are not new to me. I've lived them all. I've also gone through every stage of hypocrisy imaginable. You're right that vegetarians are simply hypocritical vegans. But vegans are also hypocritical vegetarians. Everyone is a hypocrite in one way or another. I don't like it and I'll never accept it, but I've gotten over it. I don't remember where, but not too long ago, I posted, "there are worse things to be in this world than a hypocrite." I used to think nothing was more vulgar and obscene than hypocrisy, but I don't feel that way anymore.

Although it would be best to become 100% vegan over night, I can't stand in judgment of anyone who does it gradually. I did it gradually, and as sad as it is for the animals I harmed while I was in the process of becoming vegan, I look at them as the same kind of martyrs as the back-bred pet store pigs we're willing to sacrifice (on a philosophical level, anyway) in order to educate people, get them to take in rescue pigs instead, and hopefully put all breeding operations out of business sometime in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I'll write more later... I have to take care of some stuff and feed the pigs now, but I'll be back!

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

Interesting perspective, but I'd say that doing something - ie, eating *less* animals - is certainly better than doing *nothing* and rationalizing eating lots of animals under the guise of wanting complete perfection.

Hence me calling myself a piece of crap. : ) Self denial isn't something I'm good at. I don't think it's a guise though, and I know I'll get there eventually. Understand, I think this is a phase I'm going through on the path to being vegan, not a bs justification to eternally "eat lots of animals."

I am eating less. It just pains me that I still eat them at all. More and more when I go to make my choice of what I will eat, I cannot bring myself to order meat.

Originally Posted by Susan9608

My experience is people who tout a complete black and white ideology online or in theory seldom actually live that way in real life.

I have no experience in this. I've never seen such a creature. It certainly must be a thing to behold. The entire animal rights "scene" is very new to me. I've met a lot of people in real life after knowing them online, but that was from the gaming environment. In that respect, everyone was always exactly how they portray themselves. I do trust in my instincts about people because they are seldom wrong, even when I want them to be.

Originally Posted by Susan9608

Or go live in the woods and try to survive all alone, eating plants and the like. But you'd probably smash a few insects along the way and ruin it.

I see your point, Susan. I'm a newbie to this and I haven't thought it all out like that yet, so I shall ponder this! Although I must confess, going into the woods and trying to survive all alone has held a certain appeal to me since I was a little girl. I enjoy the challenge of seeing what we can do without.

I suppose I never gave it much thought, but my perfectionism and my hatred for hypocrisy is what kept me eating meat for longer than it should have. The ideas you've expressed here are not new to me. I've lived them all. I've also gone through every stage of hypocrisy imaginable. You're right that vegetarians are simply hypocritical vegans. But vegans are also hypocritical vegetarians. Everyone is a hypocrite in one way or another. I don't like it and I'll never accept it, but I've gotten over it. I don't remember where, but not too long ago, I posted, "there are worse things to be in this world than a hypocrite." I used to think nothing was more vulgar and obscene than hypocrisy, but I don't feel that way anymore.

Uh yeah, what you said. I'm shamefully infatuated with you.

[Justin]

There is no black or white in real life. If you look close, everything is gray.

[Susan9608]

There is no black or white in real life. If you look close, everything is gray.

Exactly - and that is why even those who are so ardently black and white in the "online" or theoretic views don't usually truly live that way. But it's a nice idea.

Uh yeah, what you said. I'm shamefully infatuated with you.

Ugh. Take that crap to private messages - the sunshine and schmoopieness is as nauseating as it is out of place here.

"there are worse things to be in this world than a hypocrite."

Perhaps that's true, but it's difficult to advocate for animal rights when you're stuffing your face with dead cow.

[Biscuit]

Hey, I said it was shameful! I won't even get into how non schmoopie I am! I'm the anti-schmoopie!

I think we agree overall, Susan, I just have trouble articulating it. I'm definitely in the thick of trying to sort it all out, so I hope that isn't held against me too badly here.

[CF#5]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

Perhaps that's true, but it's difficult to advocate for animal rights when you're stuffing your face with dead cow.

It's also difficult to be an effective advocate when your only focus in life is converting people to believe in animal rights. Tireless, endless advocacy will drive almost anyone crazy. The beauty of the internet is that you can post something, and it stays there forever. Other people have the ability to read it while you're off doing something else, relaxing, or working, or sleeping, or whatever else it is that you do. A little balance and levity are required to protect personality sanity (although some might question MY sanity, I'm talking in general terms here).

It's also difficult to be an effective advocate without being as pure as possible, because then people with opposing opinions will jump down your throat for your hypocrisy. We all know it's impossible to be perfect. But the more we strive for it, and the higher we set our standards, and the more we challenge ourselves to reach and exceed those standards, the less hypocritical we become, and the easier it becomes to advocate when we choose to advocate.