Ranting about the common omnivore....(Since they're all the same)

[Char-x]

Originally Posted by Cherish

Grouping people who do not live your lifestyle as being "all the same" and seeing yourself as being somehow superior to people who do not share your views is very closed-minded and ignorant.

But so is being very rude to someone expressing their views in a polite manner. I think gpluver has already said she did mean most not all and she apologised, she was simply pretty peeved at the time because of how this girl reacted to her - which to me was close minded and ignorant.

Originally Posted by Cherish

I, personally, do not support the "meat industry" as you call it. All of the meat and other animal products I get are imported directly from my parents' farm, where all of the animals are very well cared for, are extremely healthy, and are all slaughtered humanely.

Nearly everyone calls it the meat industry - including those in it, infact there are meat industry associations etc. I don't think she meant anything by calling it that? =S If you condone meat eating then you do support the industry (my personal view)...you might not buy into the huge mass farmers but still slaugher is slaughter..no matter how pretty the picture around it is...a death is a death


"All fear death. All love life." -Buddha

Originally Posted by Cherish

I have chronic anaemia, and a variety of vitamin and protein deficiencies. If I do not eat liver at least twice a week (especially when it is the 'wrong time of month') I become very ill, being violently sick and often passing out. If I did not drink milk or eat eggs and meat, I would not be able to safely bear children.

Ok then, again I think gpluver has said she didn't mean all she meant most, and I don't think she was taking in health problems when she was letting off some steam.

Vegetarian diets, if planned right, aren't all low-protein if you look on this link (Protein in Foods - Protein Content) it shows the highest protein meat is ostrich - 10 grams per ounce - and soy beans has an equal amount. Half a cup of Tofu (not listed) has aprox double - 20grams. I'm not saying you could eat it as you have other definancys with being anaemic but I'm just saying to anyone who reads this and thinks that vegetarians can't get enough protein isn't correct - not aimed at just you personally.

Originally Posted by Cherish

So please try and be more open-minded in future, you have no right to preach or force your views upon other people.

This is a pro-animals rights, pro-vegetarian forum...and the thread starter WAS NOT preaching her veiws on us or those at her dinner table. She was answering questions politely and got her head bitten off by someone with her. We aren't saying (well I'm not talking for Cavy Spirit but from what I've known) not everyone has to be vegetarian/vegans on this forum BUT I do think when you come into the vegetarian section on a board thats sole purpose is animal activism, then a vegetarian might be letting off some steam - afterall vegetarians constantly get enough random rants aimed towards us.

Originally Posted by Cherish

I fully understand why a lot of people chose to be vegetarian, but it does not make you in anyway superior to myself, or other omnivores, simply because we do not have that same option.

I just read through this thread again and I really don't see where people are saying or hinting that they are superior because they dont eat meat? =S The girl who was rude was called immature etc because she was, not because of her diet, and again gpluver said she didnt mean all and apoligsed and regretted typing that.

[gpigluver14]

I'm basically going to reiterate basically the same items Char-X mentioned.

I, personally, do not support the "meat industry" as you call it. All of the meat and other animal products I get are imported directly from my parents' farm, where all of the animals are very well cared for, are extremely healthy, and are all slaughtered humanely.

What else would you call it? Is there another name for the industry where animal products come from?

Grouping people who do not live your lifestyle as being "all the same" and seeing yourself as being somehow superior to people who do not share your views is very closed-minded and ignorant.

How am I seeing myself as superior? If you had at least skimmed through all the posts of this thread you will see that I meant to write "MOST" not "ALL."

The thread I started was a rant on how a girl completely, rudely exploded on me when I was simply answering a question about vegetarianism. Throughout the thread I don't believe I "forced" my views on anyone. Even if I did express my views at all, I would appreciate if you would respect them. If you don't want to hear about them then perhaps you should not be on the vegetarian section of the forum.

[thalestral]

I have yet to find anyone who truly cannot be vegetarian for medical reasons. I have spoken with many remarkable people with all manner of ailments who all make the vegetarian diet work for them, most with great ease.

There is nothing in meat or dairy that we cannot get bountifully from other sources.

I think if you are so worried about others possibly thinking themselves superior to you it might do you well to examine what guilt you may be carrying with regards to your diet. For what other reason would you assume veg*ns felt themselves morally superior if it did not jar with your own morals?

[Char-x]

Originally Posted by thalestral

I have yet to find anyone who truly cannot be vegetarian for medical reasons. I have spoken with many remarkable people with all manner of ailments who all make the vegetarian diet work for them, most with great ease.

There is nothing in meat or dairy that we cannot get bountifully from other sources.

Extremely true, infact the things we get from non-meat products are usually much more beneficial and the vitimins/minerals etc absorb into our bodies easier than of those in meat.

[Cherish]

Okay, to try and answer everyone at once:

I feel no guilt whatsoever, because I eat meat and animal products.
I am perfectly happy to look at a lovely little deer, skipping merrily and frolicking about the fields... and then serve dear, sweet little Bambi with a selection of freshly grown vegetables the next day.
Just because you feel guilty about it, doesn't mean I do.
I'm actually rather proud of the fact that I can cook a rare steak to perfection.

Secondly, are any of you doctors? Do any of you have a medical degree? No?
Come back and challenge what real doctors and professionals who actually know what they're talking about have already told me when you do, then.

Lastly, I am glad that the person that started this thread has apologised, and realises that both the thread title and her first post are highly inappropriate.
I am sorry that one girl was rude to you, but that does not give you an excuse to be rude to everyone that does not share your views.
Saying that the "common omnivore" are "all the same" heavily suggests that they are somehow inferior to you.

But I'm glad that you have realised your mistake and apologised, and that you know that not all omnivores are alike.
Much in the same way that I do not believe that all vegetarians and vegans are as preachy as some of the ones I have previously spoken to.

Personally, I find the many different vegetarian and vegan viewpoints very interesting on a philosophical level, although I do not always agree with them.
There is a difference between discussing philospohies, and preaching at people or insinuating that they should feel guilty because they don't agree with you, as a couple of people in this thread have done.
What is the point in having a 'discussion' if all you want is a chorus of "yes! me too!" and agreement?
Polite, mature discussion of opposing view points can be very enriching; some you should try it some time.

[gpigluver14]

Okay, to try and answer everyone at once:

I feel no guilt whatsoever, because I eat meat and animal products.
I am perfectly happy to look at a lovely little deer, skipping merrily and frolicking about the fields... and then serve dear, sweet little Bambi with a selection of freshly grown vegetables the next day.
Just because you feel guilty about it, doesn't mean I do.
I'm actually rather proud of the fact that I can cook a rare steak to perfection.

Secondly, are any of you doctors? Do any of you have a medical degree? No?
Come back and challenge what real doctors and professionals who actually know what they're talking about have already told me when you do, then.

Lastly, I am glad that the person that started this thread has apologised, and realises that both the thread title and her first post are highly inappropriate.
I am sorry that one girl was rude to you, but that does not give you an excuse to be rude to everyone that does not share your views.
Saying that the "common omnivore" are "all the same" heavily suggests that they are somehow inferior to you.

But I'm glad that you have realised your mistake and apologised, and that you know that not all omnivores are alike.
Much in the same way that I do not believe that all vegetarians and vegans are as preachy as some of the ones I have previously spoken to.

Personally, I find the many different vegetarian and vegan viewpoints very interesting on a philosophical level, although I do not always agree with them.
There is a difference between discussing philospohies, and preaching at people or insinuating that they should feel guilty because they don't agree with you, as a couple of people in this thread have done.
What is the point in having a 'discussion' if all you want is a chorus of "yes! me too!" and agreement?
Polite, mature discussion of opposing view points can be very enriching; some you should try it some time.

Once again, I do not believe I was rude to anyone throughout the whole thread and the experience I had. I do not regret making the first post, and I do not understand how it is inappropriate. The title, yes. And we have gone through this before through the posts above and my last post, how I have said that the word all should have been most. I feel like I'm constantly repeating this.

You don't need to be a doctor to state that you can be a vegetarian and still have medical issues. Look at the facts. There are other ways of getting protein besides animal products. It seems like you are being the close-minded one here. You seem unwilling to accept that you could be a vegetarian if you wanted to.

This is a pro-vegetarian forum and this is the vegetarian section of the forum. If you are going to be argumentative and against veg*nism, then maybe you should not be on the site at all??

By the way, I'm sure you could share your morals in a much more polite manner then this:

I feel no guilt whatsoever, because I eat meat and animal products.
I am perfectly happy to look at a lovely little deer, skipping merrily and frolicking about the fields... and then serve dear, sweet little Bambi with a selection of freshly grown vegetables the next day.
Just because you feel guilty about it, doesn't mean I do.
I'm actually rather proud of the fact that I can cook a rare steak to perfection.

You can be proud, but please do not boast about something like this, when you know all too well that there are many veg*n members of this forum.

[Cherish]

Originally Posted by gpigluver14

Once again, I do not believe I was rude to anyone throughout the whole thread and the experience I had. I do not regret making the first post, and I do not understand how it is inappropriate. The title, yes. And we have gone through this before through the posts above and my last post, how I have said that the word all should have been most. I feel like I'm constantly repeating this.

Maybe the reason you have to keep repeating yourself, is because you were wrong, and you caused offence. Don't like it? Be more considerate in future.
And, yes, I still find the word "most" offensive.
In my own life experience (that actually spans beyond school dining tables) there are far more rude vegetarians than there are rude omnivores.
But I don't go whining about how all or even most vegetarians are all the same, because I realise that would be immature and judgmental.

Originally Posted by gpigluver14

You don't need to be a doctor to state that you can be a vegetarian and still have medical issues. Look at the facts. There are other ways of getting protein besides animal products. It seems like you are being the close-minded one here. You seem unwilling to accept that you could be a vegetarian if you wanted to.

If you had actually taken the time to properly read my post before climbing upon the shaky foundations of your soapbox, you would have noticed that I was not talking only about protein, but mostly about iron and other vitamins, but iron first and foremost.
Liver especially contains a very high amount of iron. I also have to eat a lot of green vegetables, but consuming enough green vegetables to compensate for my lack of iron will inevitably lead to digestion problems.
However, I don't want to go veggie, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other people out there who have the same health problems I do, that would go veggie if they could.
But hey, most omnivores are all the same, and all eat processed meat from supermarkets, right?

Originally Posted by gpigluver14

This is a pro-vegetarian forum and this is the vegetarian section of the forum. If you are going to be argumentative and against veg*nism, then maybe you should not be on the site at all??

I have not, in any way, shape or form, been argumantative against vegetarianism or veganism as either a lifestyle or a philosophy.
Read back over my posts carefully (because you really seem to have a problem with that) and you will notice this.
The only thing I have been "argumentative" against is closed-minded, self-important generalisations.
And whether the subject material was vegetarianism, religious inclination or anything else, I would still take issue with it.

Originally Posted by gpigluver14

By the way, I'm sure you could share your morals in a much more polite manner then this:

You can be proud, but please do not boast about something like this, when you know all too well that there are many veg*n members of this forum.

Yes, I was intentionally insensitive, for the purpose of making a point, but impolite? No.
Impolite would be to generalise "most" people who live by a certain philosophy, based simply upon one person's negative reaction.

[Susan9608]

Polite, mature discussion of opposing view points can be very enriching; some you should try it some time.

You ought to, also, as these kinds of statements

I am perfectly happy to look at a lovely little deer, skipping merrily and frolicking about the fields... and then serve dear, sweet little Bambi with a selection of freshly grown vegetables the next day.

don't do much do to stimulate one, particularly on a pro-vegetarian forum. If you want to have a " polite, mature discussion" about what most omnivores are really like, then you need to take your own advice and not be ... how did you put it ? ... intentionally insensitive.

If you truly have health related issues, that's unfortunate. As this is the internet, there's no way of knowing what your problems truly are. I will say, though, that for the majority of people, most health care professionals endorse a vegetarian diet as extremely healthy and beneficial. Also, most doctors/physicians receive little to NO training in nutrition, so I'd hardly consider them experts in the subject. That's why there are dieticians.

[thalestral]

Originally Posted by Cherish

I feel no guilt whatsoever, because I eat meat and animal products.
I am perfectly happy to look at a lovely little deer, skipping merrily and frolicking about the fields... and then serve dear, sweet little Bambi with a selection of freshly grown vegetables the next day.
Just because you feel guilty about it, doesn't mean I do.
I'm actually rather proud of the fact that I can cook a rare steak to perfection.

Your aggression is not welcome here. Don't feel guilty? Stop being so overly defensive and it might be more believable! Or better yet, why not avoid a pro-vegetarian forum

Originally Posted by Cherish

Secondly, are any of you doctors? Do any of you have a medical degree? No?
Come back and challenge what real doctors and professionals who actually know what they're talking about have already told me when you do, then.

Do you? If not, this argument does not apply. Doctors are not the experts in nutrition one might expect, so unless you've spoken to a vegan nutritionist then what your doctors and professionals might have told you in relation to something they are not an expert in really holds no water. However, if you are someone who medically cannot eat a vegetarian diet then please consult these experts ASAP! You are one of a kind!

Originally Posted by Cherish

Polite, mature discussion of opposing view points can be very enriching; some you should try it some time.

Wow, this really cracked me up. The only person being disrespectful on this thread, on this pro-vegetarian forum, is you. If you can start being polite and mature then perhaps your comments would be received a little better. Lose the aggression for starters!

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Cherish

Maybe the reason you have to keep repeating yourself, is because you were wrong, and you caused offence. Don't like it? Be more considerate in future.

Read back over my posts carefully (because you really seem to have a problem with that)

Yes, I was intentionally insensitive, for the purpose of making a point, but impolite? No.

I eat meat, but you're rude.

I thought the "Since they are all the same" in the thread title was actually kind of snarky, half kidding type thing...the OP poking fun at themselves.

You're doing the whole "I'm elite at arguing on the internetz" thing. The way you go about it sounds like me at about age 13 on IRC. I can tell you pride yourself on being intelligent and good at debate, but honestly...it's just played out. Find a new gig.

Nothing worse than a rude person living in denial. At least I know I'm rude, depraved, and everything else you can think of.

[wickedrodent]

Unfortuantly, I have gotten that same kind of responce a number of times as well. Some people are just naturally rude like that. On the other hand, it is possible she was feeling guilty about eating meat and snapped becuase she didn't want to let that guilt show.

From what I have seen, there are three responces to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle discussion. First off is the interested person. Someone who is a veg*n or is interested in hearing more about them. Second would be the type of person who doesn't care about the animals, and even if they 'like' animals their taste buds come first no matter how many people and animals are suffering because of it. Third is the most common- the type of person like the girl that snapped at you.

I would suggest starting a club at your school or doing a presentation about Veg*nism at your pep-rally (if you have them). It is a great way to spread the correct information without focusing on one person in particular.

[Char-x]

All the below quotes are from Cherish.

I feel no guilt whatsoever, because I eat meat and animal products.
I am perfectly happy to look at a lovely little deer, skipping merrily and frolicking about the fields... and then serve dear, sweet little Bambi with a selection of freshly grown vegetables the next day.
Just because you feel guilty about it, doesn't mean I do.
I'm actually rather proud of the fact that I can cook a rare steak to perfection.

Who are you trying to proove this to? Us or yourself? It really is beginning to sound like you are trying to convince yourself. The whole sweet little Bambi thing...now that was very immature comment wasn't it on a pro-vegetarian board. That won't gain you any respect here and if you DO think you are debating well, you just ruined that for yourself.

Secondly, are any of you doctors? Do any of you have a medical degree? No?
Come back and challenge what real doctors and professionals who actually know what they're talking about have already told me when you do, then.

No, I'm sorry do I need to be? I think you are getting confused with the people who actually KNOW what they are going on about with food - that would be a trained nutritionist Out of all the years doctors train they get about 1 week on nutrition and thats basic biology stuff. I would be very concerned if I was you if your doctor is trying to act like an expert in these fields.

Lastly, I am glad that the person that started this thread has apologised, and realises that both the thread title and her first post are highly inappropriate.
I am sorry that one girl was rude to you, but that does not give you an excuse to be rude to everyone that does not share your views.
Saying that the "common omnivore" are "all the same" heavily suggests that they are somehow inferior to you.

Well you know what? Just because some omnivores have met some vegetarians or vegans they see as unhealthy annoying drama queens does NOT mean they need to constantly play on it, and believe me they do. Infact you used one of the very common attempts at getting as us, the whole "eating Bambi". It's so pathectic. Afterall what HARM are we doing NOT eating meat? Oh thats right NONE. Whereas eating meat and producing it like you're parents does, causes ALOT of harm especially enviourmentally. Omnivores can be MUCH worse for taking the pee and talking about stuff that have no clue on.

But I'm glad that you have realised your mistake and apologised, and that you know that not all omnivores are alike.
Much in the same way that I do not believe that all vegetarians and vegans are as preachy as some of the ones I have previously spoken to.

I'm glad you realise that because maybe it's another generalisation - and feel free to shoot me down for it because I believe it to be true in my experiance - but 90% of omnivores I know categorise and stick vegetarians in the same little group.

There is a difference between discussing philospohies, and preaching at people or insinuating that they should feel guilty because they don't agree with you, as a couple of people in this thread have done.

If pro-vegetarian talk is making you feel guilty then I think thats something you need to think about, not us.

What is the point in having a 'discussion' if all you want is a chorus of "yes! me too!" and agreement?
Polite, mature discussion of opposing view points can be very enriching; some you should try it some time.

I agree, I'm up for mature discussion but some things you have said has not been mature. Bambi? Pshh
I think you will find people say yes me too because they are a vegetarian/vegan for the same reasons - ethical/health, again this is a pro-vegetarian forum I think it has a tendancy to attract more vegetarians than omnivores.

Maybe the reason you have to keep repeating yourself, is because you were wrong, and you caused offence. Don't like it? Be more considerate in future.
And, yes, I still find the word "most" offensive.

Or maybe it's because it seems it isn't getting through to you. It seems that the other omnivores here have accepted the title was a mistake and have moved on from that, you should do the same. Do you mean you would find it offensive if she said most omnivores are like the girl? I would find it perfectly alright for her to say that, no not because I'm vegetarian, but because MOST omnivores DO feel the need to make rude comments regarding people being a vegetarian in my experiance and in many others aswell. SOME however are mature enough to ask reasonable questions and find out more, or just leave it - members on here do just this. Unfortunatly in places like schools/work most people who eat meat get defensive in a rude way and start telling you about how you are going to die or get skinny.

In my own life experience (that actually spans beyond school dining tables) there are far more rude vegetarians than there are rude omnivores.

Wow how extremely patranizing! Polite, mature, discussion you say? Ironic. So now because she goes to school she has little knowledge or experiance of anything like this? You have no idea what life experiance she has had so I suggest not even going there. More rude vegetarians than omnivores? I have to disagree, while SOME vegetarians and vegans can be rude in the randomist of places, so can SOME if not MOST omnivores be rude. Infact
I find that when you are in a non-bias area (this is a pro-vegetarian forum therefore people are passionate and have the right to preach what the want) and you mention you eat meat nearly all vegetarians won't care and keep quiet. You dare mention you are a vegetarian and BANG you get omnivores preaching to US about how we are going to die, get skinny, loose vitimins...which just shows how ignorent and little they know. You may feel vegetarians are more rude than omnivores because you are an omnivore and never had to be a vegetarian in a room with them, but since I have been both I can gurantee you omnivores are more likely to begin tormenting vegetarians than a vegetarian is to start preaching.

If you had actually taken the time to properly read my post before climbing upon the shaky foundations of your soapbox, you would have noticed that I was not talking only about protein, but mostly about iron and other vitamins, but iron first