Vegetarian Dog Food

[sweetjay6891]

AvoDerm

AvoDerm Natural Vegetarian Adult Dog Food

This I what I have been using - The Pink Veggie Kind.



This is what I used to feed Mason:

PetSmart - Nature's Recipe® Healthy Skin Vegetarian Recipe Canine Formula

Was this switch a good idea?

[PurplePoe]

Just from looking at the two sites I'd stick with the AvoDerm for two reasons. The first is that I don't like the fact Nature's Recipie's first ingredient is water- I just can't see how a food can have a lot of substance if water is its main ingredient. The second reason why I don't like NP is because the protein level is WAY too low. On average, protein should be between 12-25%; not 4.5% (you're really buying water in kibble form). AvoDerm, on the other hand, has 18% protein and seems to have more substance.

Poe

[cookie_gal]

First off, unless your dog is meat sensitive I do not feel it is fair to inflict our beliefs on them, they are natural meat eaters and scavengers and NEED it.

Secondly, Avoderm is rubbish, if you check out this site which evaluates loads of dog foods you may find a decent one that is sold in your local pet shop. Avoderm is listed as a 1 star food which is very bad. Aim for at least a 3 star food. Burns, James Wellbeloved and Arden Grange are such good examples but I dunno if they are available in your area.

Here's the link: Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost

these are proper reviews, not done by the general public but done by a company that knows what it is talking about. ( Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble )

[sweetjay6891]

They do NOT need meat but that's a personal belief.


Vegetarian Frequently Asked Questions - Animals


Vegetarian Dog Food


Vegetarian Dogs

There's others, but I didn't want a debate.

Thank you PurplePoe for your help!

[cookie_gal]

If you want to continue believing that, thats up to you but I at least hope you will look at the links I took the time to give you, for your dogs sake.

[smartorl]

Originally Posted by sweetjay6891

They do NOT need meat but that's a personal belief.


Vegetarian Frequently Asked Questions - Animals


Vegetarian Dog Food


Vegetarian Dogs

There's others, but I didn't want a debate.

Thank you PurplePoe for your help!

Personally, and from reading anything that is even remotely related to the issue, I feel that to deprive dogs and more importantly cats meat in their diets is wrong. Their digestive tracts are not prepared for a total veggie or vegan diet. I feel that in the case of animals, personal views have to be set aside. I have seen veggie dogs and to be totally honest, they aren't vibrant and healthy as they were prior to their dietary changes. I mean where is the line drawn? Would you make retiles and birds of prey vegitarians? I don't eat meat but I feed my dogs and cats the BARF diet, totally raw meats and veggies. While I know it is not for everyone, I find that my pets are very healthy, happy, and contented. I also know that they are not getting tons of preservatives and fillers.

[Piggiepen]

Have you ever seen a wolf live on salad??? Dogs need the protein and enzymes found in meat in order for their digestive tracks to work properly. Ideally, they should be fed a raw food diet consisting of bone, meat and some veggies. Dogs were not meant to live off of corn meal and god knows what kind of by products found in commercial kibble. I heartily agree with Smartorl as I have switched my dog over to a raw food diet and the change in her health has been amazing. Not only does she love her food (kibble used to sit in the bowl for hours before she forced it down!) her skin/coat look healthier and she has more energy - and less to scoop out the other end as most of her food is digestible. She is an elderly dog now and I feel horrible for not realizing how bad commercial kibble was for her. She suffered from allergies and weight problems (despite a strick feeding schedule) all her life. By the way, there are enzymes found only in RAW meat that dogs and cats require in their diets - by processing/cooking the food these enzymes are destroyed and is possibly a major contributing factor to the innumerable health problems seen in domesticated dogs & cats.

Please don't deprive your dog of meat protein in their diet. To do so would be cruel as they don't have a choice in what their body's require. Would you force a guinea pig to live off of meat just because you didn't want to eat veggies?? We have a choice in what diet we can eat and still be healthy, many animals don't. They are very particular in their dietary needs and if you can't stomach feeding your dog meat, then maybe you should have stuck to herbivores for a pet.

[sweetjay6891]

The Vegetarian Society UK - Information Sheet - Dogs - a Vegetarian Diet?


Like I said, your opinions are not what I believe. The breed of dog I have has a very sensitive stomach and could not keep down homecooked meals nor highly quality dog food with meat or chicken. Ive also tried fish. His coat became dull and he was lazy. From what I've read, it was the meat. Since all the thousands of dollar vet bills. He IS a happy heatlhy dog and my cat IS healthy more as well. It is is stupid thing to say that I would feed meat to my guinea if I didn't like veggies because guinea pigs are strict herbavores. Dog are obnivores and are not wolves anymore. They do not need meat but I'm not argueing over personal beliefs over the internet! I ask a simple question got the answer and now I want this thread closed. thank you.

[PurplePoe]

1) Dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on a vegetarian diet. It's not something I do with my dogs, but some can have such sensitive systems that meat can either not break down or can be an allergen.

2) Wolves are not dogs; they are two entirely separate species (Canis lupus vs Canis familiaris) and they do differ in regards to digestion. Also, just like you would not see a wolf eat a salad you would also not see a wolf have very violent allergies to meat protein. I've encountered dogs that have developed allergies to every meat source imaginable, and the best thing for them was to introduce them to a vegetarian diet and supplement if needed.

Also, I need a more specific link in regards to AvoDerm on the Food Reviews Site. I put AvoDerm in the search engine and did not produce a result.

Poe

[Jennicat]

Actually, Poe, dogs are a subspecies of gray wolf.

The domestic dog is Canis lupus familiaris, the gray wolf is canis lupus.

I don't think that anyone here is arguing that some dogs do not have meat allergies (which, I don't think it is fair for you to state that wolves "don't". There is no way we can check every wild wolf, and it's entirely possible that those who do don't survive long enough to be observed). However, my boyfriend has allergies to most grains. I think it would be unfair to broadly paint that since one human has allergies to most grains, all humans can survive eating solely meat.

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by sweetjay6891

now I want this thread closed. thank you.

You don't have that option. You can certainly stop reading the thread and not reply to it, but it will not be closed because people have differing opinions and want to present them.

[smartorl]

If the dog has a meat allergy then by all means, find what is right for him, whatever that may be. Ouch about the cat though, while dogs are at least omnivores, cats are carnivores and most definitely need meat in their diet. Please reconsider the cat at least, that worries me.

[akintolife]

I do not have a cat, however I have friends that feed their cat a vegan diet with their vets approval. They spent a lot of time and effort researching what food to give their cat and found that the food they feed was one of the healthiest options available.

One of the problems most people bring up in relation to cats is that they require taurine, which did originally only come from animals, however virtually all taurine in cat food is chemically produced and should be present in any decent cat food.

I also know a lot of people that successfully feed thier dog a veg*n diet. Like with any diet that is fed to a companion animal research is the key to finding out how do it properly. As is creating a balanced diet full of the right nutrients. One thing most people I know that feed thier companions a vegan diet have discovered is that the food they choose to feed generally doesn't contain things that may be harmful to the animal (corn, euthanised animals, diseased animals...).

[crazywiggy]

Just my 2 cents....

Dogs are by nature carnivores, they are only slightly omnivorous in that they will scavenge, but they're still primarily carnivores.
Cats are obligate carnivores - without the nutrients, e.g. taurine, found only in animal products they develop serious health problems which lead to blindness and death.

For both animals, their whole digestive system is geared towards eating meat, from their teeth, to the enzymes they produce, to the ones they don't produce (to digest green plant matter), to the length of the gut etc.

In my opinion you have to do what is best for the animal, not for your conscience in this case. It may be possible for a dog to live on a veg*n diet, but just because they could doesn't mean they should.

[cookie_gal]

Originally Posted by PurplePoe

1) Dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on a vegetarian diet. It's not something I do with my dogs, but some can have such sensitive systems that meat can either not break down or can be an allergen.

2) Wolves are not dogs; they are two entirely separate species (Canis lupus vs Canis familiaris) and they do differ in regards to digestion. Also, just like you would not see a wolf eat a salad you would also not see a wolf have very violent allergies to meat protein. I've encountered dogs that have developed allergies to every meat source imaginable, and the best thing for them was to introduce them to a vegetarian diet and supplement if needed.

Also, I need a more specific link in regards to AvoDerm on the Food Reviews Site. I put AvoDerm in the search engine and did not produce a result.

Poe

Dunno what you typed but is this the food you are both on about? avoderm vegetarian?

Dog Food Reviews - Breeder's Choice AvoDerm Vegetarian Adult Formula for Meat Sensitive Dogs - Powered by ReviewPost

[PurplePoe]

LoL I stand corrected. I knew they became a sp in the early 90s, but they were talking of changing it again a few years ago (incidently when I was taking my animal companion physiology courses). However, yep, subspecies it remains.

Of course you can't check every wolf alive, but it is a fair assessment to write that exactly for the reason you specified- they would not survive. It also might have to do with how food allergies/intolerances develop in dogs. They've seen some pretty odd things in captive and monitored wolf populations and a meat allergy is not one of them. I'll look into though next time I'm on campus. I don't entirely follow the boyfriend analogy because if one is allergic to grains there are other things to eat besides "solely meat." Also, depending on who you're debating, one might be just as adamant in saying meat shouldn't be in a human's diet anyways.

The thread started with a question as to which was the better food. I'm not an advocate for vegetarian dogs unless there is an allergy/intolerance issue, like in the case of Jay's dogs, and am not interested in getting into what people believe is right and what is wrong. You'll find veterinarians that will endorse vegetarianism, BARF, and even Country Value (first three ingredients in that is like corn, corn product, the dirt in which the corn grew). It's whatever works best for your dog's system.

Cookie, no that's not the right food. That's the wet food, and I would agree that is not a sufficient diet. The dry is a much better diet. Natural Balance has a pretty good veggie diet as well.

Poe