confused

[fashion victim]

I'm a bit confused... I want to be more pro animal lives, but I have a dog and she eats dog food -dog food made from other animal meat. Is this acceptable or should I turn her into a vegan (she'll eat anything, including a whole plate of salad)? Also... from what I gather, most shoes are made of leather... so is there an animal friendly brand of shoes which I could use without feeling guilty after buying a pair? Understand I do not mean to cause any controversy with this post, this is just my honest curiosity towards being more pro-animal rights.

[Lydia]

I'm sure that others will give similar or better advice, but here's my 2cents:

My dog eats Natural balance Vegetarian dog foods, from my local pet supply store. He's totally healthy, insanely full of energy and I've noticed no problems for him in teh transition. It was actually recommended by our trainer (the well-respected president of our local humane society) to reduce aggression, which is often made worse by too much protein.

However, we also have hedgehogs, who are obligate carnivores - they could not ever be vegetarian. As such, we choose the best possible foods for them; organic as possible, etc. I've posted about this before, since it's an internal dilemna for me, but the general conclusion has always been that you do the best you can to reduce harm, and that's all you can do. Personally I think that making a slow switch over to a fully or partly vegetarian diet for dogs is just fine. I wouldn't go there for my hedgies though.

Shoes, I'll be honest, along with belts and wallets, can be a bit of a pain in the butt. I haven't bought leather shoes in years, but keep my eyes peeled. I often buy from sheaper stores like Payless Shoes and Shoe Warehouse, who have stock of non-leather items - just ask. I actually only recently learned that most leather-looking running shoes are actually no longer made with leather. I had no idea! In addition, the internet is full of veggie items a-plenty. The PETA website has great shopping links, and if you do a google search for "vegetarian shoes" you'll find lots of great sites.

Hope this helps.

[fashion victim]

Thanks for the info, I had no idea such a thing as vegetarian shoes and dog food existed. I'll try to find that brand here and see how she likes it. You took a big load off my mind and I really appreciate it!

[Sabriel]

When you buy shoes or belts look for a stamp or sticker that says "All man made materials". Then it's all good! I picked up a pair of faux crock skin shoes for $10 on sale since they weren't real leather or croc skin.

[cookie_gal]

Please remember dogs were originally omnivores and need meat in their diet. I find it unfair to inflict our way of life onto them when they have no say in the matter. Yes they will eat what you put in front of them but I for one do not believe we should withold meat just because we are vegetarians. I also do not believe they are getting full nutrients without a proper diet which includes meat. It all goes back to the original 'dogs'. As a result most dogs find a diet free of meat unpalatable and they may end up eating it just because they are hungry not because they are enjoying it.

If you insist on doing this then I suggest a discussion with a nutrition-wise vet about additional supplements and suitable foods. Remember virtually all dog products have meat in them too, you will need to find vegetarian options to replace all things. However I do feel it is unwise and perhaps not fair to the dog. I have read of dogs surviving on a vegetarian diet (some due to health reasons) but many appear not to enjoy it.

Its about the dog, not us.

I know I will get flamed for this but it is something I feel strongly about, sorry.

As for shoes etc I really do not know any sources, a lot of my vegetarian friends just grit their teeth as the cruelty-free brands are expensive, sadly.

[Sabriel]

How do you know that dogs don't enjoy veg food? I am sure they can flavour dog food the same as human food. I have had quite a few veg meals that taste just like the real thing.

Unless you are one of those people who insist on trying their pet's food (and my husband is one of those people) I really can't see how you can know what it tastes like.

[cookie_gal]

If you watch a dog you can tell if it is enjoying its dinner. Thats why there's also so much choice as different dogs enjoy different things. When Tina is enjoying her dinner she eats enthusiastically, wags her tail and kisses me afterwards. If I have to give her something she's not so keen on her bodylanguage and attitude is all different. Besides I've read of a lot of people saying their dogs enjoy a meat diet more as I had to help a friend research the topic a year or so ago.

Its about learning to understand and read a dogs body language etc, there's some really good books out there if people are interested.

[Sabriel]

Well with cats they either eat it or they don't. They don't seem to have that grey area dogs do.

But still, I am sure there are different brands with different tastes. Just because it has meat in it does not make it a shoo in. My cats have turned down plenty of food with more then enough meat in it. And my MIL has a dog that won't eat any brand of dog food. Won't even touch it, so they have to feed him cat food or he will starve. Not all dogs are the same.

I've seen dogs beg for and eat fruits and veggies. So I know that some dogs like them. But I am sure they have veg food for dogs that taste just like meat filled food. If they can do if for people they can do it for dogs too.

[Fluffball]

The claim that dogs are canivores is not entirely correct.

[FONT=Arial]According to Rebecca Remillard, DVM, a Specialist in Veterinary Nutrition:
"C[/FONT][FONT=Arial]anines are in the order Carnivora, but I think their feeding behaviors are best described as omnivorous. The term carnivore applies to their taxonomic classification, not their feeding behavior. Taxonomically, dogs are members of the order Carnivora, a very diverse group, that includes 12 families of more than 260 species, some of which are herbivorous mammals (the panda). There are three types of feeding behavior (omnivorous, herbivorous and carnivorous) all of which can be found among different members of the order Carnivora." (From an email response to the question of dogs being looked upon as carnivorous or omnivorous in the newsletter of the American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Dogs are classified as carnivores however their feeding bahaviour differes resulting in their ability to consume a herbivorous diet. Humans are classified as omnivorous however we also have the ability to eat a herbivous diet.
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Cats are classified as strict carnivores. They can consume a herbivorus diet however in my personal opinion I think they need meat as well. In order to survive dogs ate meat, similar to early humans consuming a meat diet. However they do not need to have a meat only diet , they can have a herbivous one, or a combination of both. Providing vegetables for extra nutrients, and pastas can help aid in proper nutrition and development. Dogs should not be fed a meat only diet.
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[FONT=Arial]It has been shown that all-meat diets are harmful over a period of time because of mineral and other imbalances.[/FONT][FONT=Arial]A combination of meat and vegetables can be more beneficial.[/FONT][FONT=Arial] Many dog foods are made with off cuts, snouts, ears e.t.c, they also are not the best prime cuts of meat and are made with inferior products ingredients. Avoid grain based pet foods. If your choose to feed a herbivous diet please ensure that they get a variety of vegetables, pastas, and always read the label for a list of ingredients on vegetarian based pet foods.
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[FONT=Arial]See this link for an example list of vegan dog food products: *VeganPet* australia's own all-vegan pet food company

These products are available in America as well.
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[FONT=Arial]The best diet for a dog is one in which vegetables are included. An all meat diet is not healthy. A dog can be healthy on a herbivous diet as they are not carnivores and are in fact omnivores. Its personal choice but whichever way you choose to feed your pet BUT your should always include plant based foods in their diet as they provide essential vitamins that they lack in a meat only diet.

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[cookie_gal]

I agree Fluffball, I said they are omnivores as they do need vegetable matter in their diet. Also agree on to avoid grain-based feedstuffs. Best food also is chicken, turkey, lamb based etc as beef and pork are too rich.

Like with anything its all about balance. My dog will choose to eat grass etc - not because of tummy trouble but because she likes it, shes always eating it! And also she LOVES fruit but I'd never just feed her veggies and fruit on this basis.

[fairysari]

I've been reading a lot about dogs since I've been trying to convince my BF that we should add a dog to our family, and I wanted to share a page I found about vegetarian/vegan dog food: The Dog Food Project - Vegetarian and Vegan Dog Foods
There is lots of other info about dog food on that site, even if you don't decide to get veggie dog food, you might learn a lot about dog nutrition.

[Sabriel]

No one is saying to just feed dogs veggies and fruits. When people buy veg dog food they strive for the same balance as when they buy meat based dog food. It's the same as when humans go veg. They just replace the meat with another type of protien.

I have replaced the meat in my diet with soy substitutes, nuts and beans. I am sure there is something in veg dog food that makes up for the lack of meat.

Dogs still need protien, vitamin and minerals. But it would seem they can digest it from another source. Becuase really, is how good can the stuff they scrape off the butcher's floor be for them? I've seen the stuff they shove in the rendering bin. If my cats could go veg I'd be the first in line to buy them veg food.