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Bloated Baytril and probiotics

ellisa

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Is he eating any hay? If not, you need to start hand feeding him. I would get some Critical Care and start giving that to him. Is he drinking water? Not eating is a sign of antibiotic intolerance.
https://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html
 

zbones

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I see he nibbling on something from time to time, so i assume he is... But ima keep a closer eye on him.
 

bpatters

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Zbones, let's back up to the beginning. Did he actually have an URI, or you're just trying to keep him from getting one? I didn't quite understand "on Baytril to prevent any further spread of a URI."

First, not all pigs have problems with Baytril, although most do.

Second, your first post says that Baytril is "slowly starting to cause bloat." What kind of signs did he have that made you think it was bloat? And how much was he eating at that point, and what kinds of foods.

Yesterday at 4:25, you said he was eating normally and still pooping. How many doses of Baytril had he had by that time?

Today at 1:15, he's not eating but you don't have lettuce, but he is pooping. His poops are sticky and mushy, which is a strong indicator of insufficient hay.

While he must continue eating, hay is much better for him than vegetables at this point. It won't contribute to any mushy poops, and will keep things moving along. You may have to handfeed him the hay, and they generally like seed heads better than the strands. That's not a good diet on a continuing basis, but won't hurt for right now.

If he's truly bloated, he needs a additional treatment to the antibiotics and probiotics. What does his stomach sound like now if you tap on it?
 

zbones

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Here is a picture of him from above.

2011-11-27_15-08-10_548.jpg


Does he look bloated? When I tap his stomach it doesn't sound as if I am tapping a full balloon, to sounds like I am tapping my piggy. His stomach is still squishy, its just feel a bit firmer than normal.

Because Two of our piggies just died from respiratory infections, including one who was caged with Havok, the vet put him on Baytril. He is nibbling on hay as well.

Since yesterday at four he has had two 0.5cc doses of Baytril. One last night at 10pm, one this morning at 11am. And two doses of Bene-Bac, on at 12am, and one at 12pm.
 

bpatters

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You know, antibiotics in guinea pigs carry risks. Most vets won't give a guinea pig an antibiotic for something it might get, because of those dangers.

If his stomach doesn't sound bloated, and if he's not sneezing/watery-eyed/coughing/wheezing, I think I'd take him off both the antibiotic and the probiotic. There's no point in saving him from a URI just to to kill him with the ABs. How about skipping his evening dose of both tonight and see how he's doing in the morning. If he's eating and pooping better, and doesn't show any signs of being sick, then you'll probably be over the hump.

You need to get/keep him eating until he's doing so normally, even if that means handfeeding him or giving him Critical Care or a pellet slurry by syringe. So you need to entice him to eat as much hay/pellets as possible tonight and tomorrow morning. If his poops are better by then, you could reintroduce a little lettuce and see how he does.
 

zbones

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Alright,

I haven't fed him pellets in weeks, I was going full-blown veggies.

Bpatters, please help me set up a healthy diet for my two little ones.
 

pinky

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Hay should be his primary food source and he should have unlimited amounts at all times. If you're feeding him a timothy pellet, he should get no more than 1/4 cup a day but only 1/8 cup if it's alfalfa based. The best pellets are KM Hayloft, Oxbow Cavy Cuisine or Sweet Meadow. You can check the diet and nutrition charts on here for the list of vegetables. They should get one cup a day of veggies but you want to make sure it's an acceptable ration of calcium and phosphorus which the charts will tell you. Hay is critical for proper digestion.
 

bpatters

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zbones, this is what I feed mine (all measurements are for two pigs):

-- Unlimited timothy hay, although you can feed any grass hay (timothy, orchard, blue, brome)
-- 1/4 cup of Kleenmama pellets, but they don't usually eat all of it
-- 1 large red or green lettuce leaf (or the equivalent) in the morning and again in the midafternoon
-- 1.5-2 cups of veggies at night. They always get the equivalent of 1/4 of a medium-sized bell pepper, usually green but sometimes colored, depending on what I've got in the fridge. If the pepper is small, they get 1/3, if it's large, they get 1/6. They also always get two slices of Roma tomato (or two cherry tomatoes), a piece of carrot the size of a large baby carrot, and half the silks and husks of an ear of corn.

The other veggies I rotate -- 2-3 green beans, 2-3 slices of zucchini or summer squash, several sprigs of cilantro or dill or thyme, a few leaves of endive, celery leaves or chopped celery, a couple of wheels of corn cob with the kernels cut off (and very occasionally with the kernels left on). They get a bit of fruit every day or every few days. If every day, I limit it to one or two blueberries or a bit of apple peel or half a grape or half a cherry. If every few days, I'll give a whole grape or cherries or a little more apple peel or more blueberries. The fruit allotment is per pig, since I usually hand feed that at the side of the cage as a bribe to let me pet them without them running.

Occasionally I'll grow wheat grass in my kitchen window and give them a handful of that each day. They love it, and if my window were bigger, I'd do it more often.

Their favorite treat, hands down, is watermelon rind. I'll give them each a 1x3 inch slice with the green part cut off about once every two weeks, or I'll chop it in smaller pieces and give it a little more often.

Neither of them can tolerate romaine lettuce or much parsley without having powdery urine, and the abby can't have more than just an occasional bite of cucumber without having gas. They both love cucumber, and it doesn't bother the other one, but I've just quit buying it altogether. If we have some in salad, I'll give them a little bite, but not much.

My abby has a more sensitive stomach than the other one, and will occasionally get slightly mis-shapen poops. They're always softer than the other pig's poops, but usually the same shape. But if they get soft enough to be deformed when they step on them, or if they look like teardrops, then I cut waaay back on the veggies for a few days until things get better -- usually just to a little lettuce two or three times a day, and their bell pepper.

Hope this helps.
 

KiwiCavyAdorer

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Zbones do you have access to grass?

I'm asking because a while back we decided to sort out emergency pots of grass, lettuce, cilantro (coriander) and celery in case Life causes a shortage of every day staples in the fridge unexpectedly. He also has an outside long grass covered playpen to graze in, when we are sitting with him on fine weather days.

There was such a difference in Maximus von Lichtenwalder's personality since making sure he has ad lib hay and ad lib clumps of green grass. The fresh grass delights him, he really puts on displays of happiness. And he is so busy with it - hours on end of fun, chewing, burrowing, scratching, climbing through it, jumping on the root ball...

We pull it up (unsprayed or pee'd on) soil and all when I find it growing tall strap leaves and sometimes with seed heads on, I get all sorts of varieties and replace the clump in the cage every day. Planting the grazed one in a bed outside until it recovers and can be brought in again.

We did this because we don't have nutritionally adequate pellets in my country yet. But the HAFF (hay and fresh foods) diet can be Tricky to get right and doesn't leave room for running out of stuff... so I cover my bases best I can with hay ad lib and fresh grass ad lib. Then I do a varied veggie/fruit variety from the lists every day. He has what pellets we can buy here yet he seldom ever goes to that bowl. I throw more out for being stale than he ever eats because he has the choice and is not hungry enough to choose them.

I also notice with him if I offer the exactly the same veggies 4 days in a row, he won't eat them at all by the 4th day, other than cucumber and celery he will snatch those every day for a full 10 days then need a break from them for a few days.

Each piggie is a bit different in their likes and dislikes and what food their bodies tolerate best, but we all learn from each other here and give other things a try because of threads like this.
 

zbones

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So we haven't given Havok any Baytril in over 24 hours, no signs of a URI yet. He is still refusing to eat certain foods however. He used to eat everything we put in front of him, now he is refusing to eat anything but lettuce and cherry tomatos and hay. He might nibbling on Cucumber, but he refuses Carrots, Bell peppers and apples.

His poops are getting bigger and more normally shaped, but it still doesn't look as if he is pooping all that much. Maybe 6-10 new poops a day.
 

bpatters

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That's not much poop. Are you sure he isn't eating it? Sometimes pigs will eat all their poops after an intestinal upset, not just the cecal ones. Keep a close eye on him -- he may need some motility drugs, although that would be unusual after having just been on antibiotics.

If he's eating lettuce and hay, I wouldn't worry about his food for at least another couple of days. The most important thing is to keep him eating -- variety takes a back seat to that. If he doesn't add other things in by late tomorrow or the next day, we probably should revisit the issue.
 
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