Bullying vs. Dominance? and/or Mites? URI? Or Am I Just A Worry Wart?

[Shinypig7]

I apologize, this is going to be long:

Everyday at feeding time I tap the bowls together to let my piggies know that food is coming. Typically, they both come blundering out, wheeking (only Guinness wheeks) and pop-corning up the wazoo! But the past couple of days (3 at most) I've noticed that only Guinness comes out when I clank the bowls. This is when I freak out and I think that Ripely died in the middle of the night, so I go on a mad search for my 2nd piggy! I find him and give him a piece of food to let him know it's meal time. He seems to get the hint once I pick him up and place him near his food bowls. Then I noticed Guinness rumblestutters at Ripely when he goes to get food (or hay from they loft). Ripley then quickly runs back to his corner while Guinness (my little fatty [though he's not actually fat]) continues to eat the majority of the food. I tried getting another bowl and placing some food in it and putting it next to Ripley when he's in his corner. He gets to eat some of it before Guinness pushes him out of the way so he can eat it! Ripely usually waits until much later before he goes and eats some pellet food, hay, and water (i.e. when Guinness is in his pigloo).
They used to eat hay and meals together just fine, but now it looks like Guinness is either proving his dominance/ being a bully or there is something wrong with Ripely... I'm hoping it's just a dominance thing, but it just seems unfair.
Today I tried to take one of them out and give him his food on the bed. Guinness was that unlucky contestant... That's when I admitted to myself there was another possible problem:

I've had both pigs for about 3 months now. They seemed to be getting used to being held after about a month or so, but still wriggled a bit. Now it seems that Guinness hates being held. Whenever I try to bring him out he always squirms violently in my arms and tries to jump out until I put him down. I used to bribe him with a treat or a piece of fruit, but now he refuses food and just walks to the side of the bed where he can see his cage. He then, persistently, tries to figure out a way off the bed... including attempting to jump off (luckily I use my hands and pillows as a wall so he can't fall to his untimely death)...
When I put him back in his cage he's fine. He eats hay regularly, eats more than plenty of food, drinks water, and runs/ pop-corns around his cage frequently. I have noticed a ton of scratching from him though and I'm worried it might be mites! I try to look at his skin, but won't sit still and tries to bite me when I give him a check up... he still has all of his fur (for now). How do I know if it's mites? If it is mites, then is there anything I can do before I take them to the vet?

I am overly paranoid about my guineas because I know they are prey animals and don't show signs of sickness unless they are incredibly sick. I try to be vigilant and look for any signs of discomfort or sickness with them. That's why I also looked at Ripely to make sure he is healthy. I noticed when he sniffs the air his nose makes loud whistling noises which is why I though of an Upper Respiratory Infection right away. There is no other way to tell with Ripely because he doesn't wheek. He has only Wheeked once and that was because it was wayyy past breakfast time. Is their any other way to tell if he is sick?

I was planning to take them to a vet for a check up next month because I'm leaving for vacation for a couple weeks in June and I don't want my piggsitter having to deal with a sick piggy or two when she has to also take care of her sick kitty. But if I need to take them to a vet earlier then I guess I have no other choice but to take them.

I would appreciate any advise form any part of this message. I am sorry again for this incredibly long message. Thank you!

[chubbypiggies]

I would think it's best that you get both of your guinea pigs checked. Has Ripely been loosing weight lately? would he eat all the veggies enthusiastically if you take him out his cage and give him his veggie separately? If Ripely, at any means, do not seem to be interested in food, then please get him checked. Also, when he breathes normally, are there also whistling sounds? are his eyes/noes crusty? does he sneeze a lot? If he does have URI it could explain the loss in appetite.
As for Guinness, I think there is a high possibility that he has mites. The reason why he wouldn't let you touch him or pet him could be that you are hurting him when you contact him due to his mites. Especially if he tries to bite you and has never done so before. Excessive scratching is also a sign of mites. Also, if Guinness do have mites, there is a high chance Ripely may have it too.
So please get them checked soon and not after a whole month as piggies go down hill very very quickly.
Hope your pigs feel better soon and keep us updated!

[kathlaaron]

Hello !

First, regarding your first question. Yes, I believe Guiness is displaying dominance with Ripley. Didn't you recently have him separated due to ( before you knew it was an ear infection) an unknown illness for a while ? Any time they are separated, even if only for a few days, hierarchy needs to be established all over again.

Also, from 4 months to 8 mos or up to a year old, they are going through adolescence and are bound to have a fair share of fights/scuffles ect. and as long as there is no serious blood drawn, do not separate them. This time period will just need to run it's course. Also, Ripley will get what he needs, but if you want to be sure, just give him some extra healthy veggies during lap time alone with him, o.k. ?

Regarding your second question: Does Ripley have any nasal discharge from his nose or eyes ? Is he sneezing or coughing more than normal ? It might be symptoms of an early URI. Only your vet would be able to determine that for sure. Check out this link on URI's from guinea lynx to see if this rings true for Ripley. http://www.guinealynx.info/uri.html

Regarding your third question: It does sound like mites to me. If it is mites, though one can order Invermectin online, it's best to get the guidance from your vet on proper dosage. Check out this link from guinea lynx: http://www.guinealynx.info/mites.html

I would not wait to take Guiness to the vet if you suspect he has mites. I would not wait to take in Ripley, if you suspect he has an early URI. I can't see your piggies and their behavior, so that is a judgment call that only you can make ! I hope I helped guide you a little bit though ! Please take the time to read the links I gave you, it is worth it for your piggies sake and for your peace of mind ! Besides you want to make sure that before you leave in June, that they are both healthy. Good luck !

[Shinypig7]

Kathlaaron: I did have them separated about a month ago for about a day because Ripely had a swollen cheek. And even then, they were still fighting over dominance. So I'm glad to finally see one of them be the dominant piggy!

However, I do plan to call the vet when they open. Ripely now has discharge on his nose and I don't think Guinness is getting much sleep since he's scratching so much. I will post to let everyone know what's going on once they see the vet.

[kathlaaron]

I just wanted to give you some sympathy for your piggies being sick, I am so sorry ! I hope you are able to get them in asap so that they can get started on the healing process. Ripley mostly likely has a URI and Guinness most likely has mites and he has probably already passed them on to Ripley as well. So make sure that your vet treats both animals with Invectmin and a safe antibiotic for Ripleys URI. When are you taking them in...because I really wouldn't' wait another day if possible ! Good luck to you my friend...and I am so sorry your piggies are sick....so sorry !!

Please give us an update o.k. ? Because we really do care !

[Shinypig7]

Unfortunately, my guinea pig doctor was only going to there till 1:00 and the only time I would have been able to go would have been at 11:00... I had to go take a psychology test at school from 11-12:15... I tried to talk to my teacher about a make up test, but the only time I could take that is during oner of my other classes...
So I made an appointment tomorrow for 11am and made sure I had no other plans today so I can tend to my piggies!
What should I do for them while I'm home? Should I give them a warm bath or would that hurt them from the mites? I have 50mg of Vitamin C tablets. Should I give them some since their sick? They are still eating their pellet food, hay, and veggies. I'm not sure how much water their getting, but I have given them a couple cucumber slices and they seem to really enjoy those more than anything. Should I keep giving them cucumber to make sure their getting some sort of water in them?

[Onetwo]

I'm not sure if you should give them extra Cucumber. You might want to start them on some acidophilus as I'm sure the one who has a suspected URI will need antibiotics if he has one. Personally I would give them each a small does of the vit C (maybe 1/2 a table each) and I would hand feed the piggie that is not eating much and making sure you have current weights on them. You might want to do some research over at Guinealynx about antibiotics, doses, handfeeding/lack of appetite and diareah (as that is the most common side effect). As well as mite treatments and how to clean the cage and stuff so they dont come back. There are some parasite meds that are no longer considered safe for guinea pigs so you might want to read up on that so your vet doesnt give them the wrong thing...

Good luck through the day/night and at the vets. Be sure to update us!!!

[Shinypig7]

What about a bath? Would that help?

[kathlaaron]

I really am not sure, but I know that generally giving piggies baths is not recommended and should only be given no more than twice a year for long haired piggies, because it dries their skin out. I know you are trying to think of ways to make them more comfortable ( in the meantime before they see your vet which I hope is soon). Were you thinking like an oatmeal type bath to soothe the itchiness ? ( Like we do with children with itchy skin)

[Onetwo]

NO if your piggy has mites the pain from bathing them could send them into shock or worse. Bathing a piggy with mites is not a good idea!

As for bathing in general with proper shampoos, melts and stuff you can bathe your regular haired pig 2-3 times a year and the long hairs usually need to be bathed monthly or every other month to keep their hair clean and debris free (as well as keeping their skin clean...)

[Shinypig7]

A regular or oatmeal bath. I was just trying to think of something to help them.

On the subject of mites:
What is the best way to clean the cage to get rid of them? Could it be possible that they got it from their hay?

On the subject of URI:
Guinness has had a minor URI infection before so now I'm pretty positive what the problem is: Their cage is on the floor right now (I know, It's a terrible spot). We are are rearranging the room right next to mine. Once that's done, they will be elevated off the floor in the bigger room. Also, I'm sure it doesn't help that they are near the door that leads to the furnace (which needs a new filter, thus, a majority of the household is sick). In the mean time, what should I do to help eliminate drafts?

[Onetwo]

Hmm its usually not drafts that cause illness its usually germs. But the cold air could make them more susceptable. My piggies have been on the floor all winter long in our cold drafty apartment. (and their cage is under a window) but I had no choice in placing the cage as the outer walls in my apartment are the only walls that are usable because of doors, entry ways, exits and closets and such...) Do you piggies have snuggly warm beds???

www.cozycavy.com

That helps keep my piggies warm. You could drape fabric over the half of the cage that they sleep in. You could get those door draft things to put under the furnace door.

http://www.guinealynx.info/mites.html

It doesnt say anything about bedding specifically but mites are not contracted from hay or bedding unless it had direct contact with a sick animal and then contact with yours within a few hours. I highly doubt a mite infested guinea pig layed on your hay or bedding as mites are species specific. They were most likely buried in the skin and hatched when stressed...

[Shinypig7]

Thanks!
They do have a blanket that they really seem to like, but that's only in one area and they do like to sleep in other areas as well. I think a cozy would be perfect for them in their other corner!

I'll ask my vet tomorrow about washing the bedding for mites.

[kathlaaron]

Here is an excerpt from guinea lynx about how to clean if your piggie has mites, below:

[SIZE=2]
To clean litter boxes or cages, remove bedding materials, clean with soapy water and rinse. Pour a tablespoon or two of vinegar on the calcium deposits and allow to sit for several minutes. This mild acid dissolves the calcium and mineral deposits through a chemical reaction (if you watch closely, you can see the release of gas as tiny bubbles). Repeat if necessary with more vinegar until the deposits are gone. You can scrub lightly with an old toothbrush to aid removal. Minimal scrubbing should be required.

A general cleaning with a dilute bleach solution every month or two will help to keep bacteria in check. [/SIZE][SIZE=2]What if my guinea pigs have mites or fungus?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2] If your guinea pigs have mange mites, perform a general cleaning as described above and vacuum the area just before or after you treat your guinea pigs for mites with ivermectin.
[/SIZE]

[Shinypig7]

I just got back from the vet!
Ripely definitely has an URI and was prescribed 0.43cc of Trimethoprim Sulfamethoxazole twice daily.
My vet ruled out mites and lice because there was no hair loss in the least an no sores from scratching. He said to monitor him just in case, otherwise he is probably scratching because he is shedding and it's just really uncomfortable since he has thicker fur. He said brushing would help get rid of some of the extra fur and help relieve him a bit.
Ripely is scratching because he has a fungal infection on his ears and could potentially turn into ringworm. He was also prescribed 1 drop Conofite Lotion for both ears, twice daily. Their check up is on the 28th!

[Shinypig7]

Guinness is the one with the thick fur :P
...probably should have specified haha!

[Onetwo]

Well its not going to "hurt" them to buy some ivermectin yourself and treat them. The great people on GL can guide you to a place to buy it and can help you calculate dosages and such. May treat new piggies when they get them just to be certain because it is so easy to do and such a hassel to deal with once it spreads...

[Shinypig7]

Does it help prevent mites as well as well? I think thats a good idea though. Especially if I decide to expand my piggy family!
What's a good affordable price for ivermectin?

[Onetwo]

http://www.guinealynx.info/ivermectin_topical.html

Its hard to know a price since it can vary a lot state to state and place to place. I dont think a vial would be much maybe $7-20 at the most. You'll need to dose weekly for 3-5 weeks to be sure to get all the eggs that hatch. Like I said before its not going to hurt the piggies to dose as a preventative when ever you get a new one. A bottle can last a very long time. You'll want the 1% or .5%% solution. You might want to ask on Guinealynx about the correct dosage for your piggy and to find a place to buy it and how much it would cost...

[Shinypig7]

Ok thanks for the information! It was really helpful